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Lucas, Roy, Ryu (1.0.8) Community Patch Notes

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Shucklin

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 4, 2014
Messages
22
Is it just me or did the cpus improve again? They definitely seem better than last patch. Also could someone check to see if greninja's counter was always so maneuverable? I don't remember being able to have geninja fly in any direction. If you don't know what I'm talking about, counter with greninja and then hold in a direction like you would to direct fox's upb. I think at certain percents if you aim it right you can evenget a true followup to a fair
 

Arklos

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Messages
92
NNID
Arklos
3DS FC
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Is it just me or did the cpus improve again? They definitely seem better than last patch. Also could someone check to see if greninja's counter was always so maneuverable? I don't remember being able to have geninja fly in any direction. If you don't know what I'm talking about, counter with greninja and then hold in a direction like you would to direct fox's upb. I think at certain percents if you aim it right you can evenget a true followup to a fair
He could always change direction with his counter.
 

Mega-Ivysaur

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 15, 2015
Messages
7
Location
Brasília, Brazil
Is it just me or did the cpus improve again? They definitely seem better than last patch. Also could someone check to see if greninja's counter was always so maneuverable? I don't remember being able to have geninja fly in any direction. If you don't know what I'm talking about, counter with greninja and then hold in a direction like you would to direct fox's upb. I think at certain percents if you aim it right you can evenget a true followup to a fair
Yes, it was improved. Link for example, uses Zair now. And welcome to day-one Greninja. Sorry that you only noticed this now.
 
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TSM ZeRo

Banned via Administration
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Mar 25, 2011
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1,295
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I'm so freaking mad. WHy the hell is this necessary.
I'm pretty sure everyone is blowing this Diddy thing out of proportion. While he probably didn't need any more nerfs, I can see what Sakurai is doing. He's watching everyone play Diddy the "brain dead" way, because of how effective and easy it is, and thinking he's done something wrong in balancing his moves. It shows in his balancing decisions with his play-testers.

People mindlessly spammed Nana -> grab combos and Monkey Flip and then Uair and Fair spammed to victory. When that failed, they threw out the rather rewarding F-Smash. No one ever jabbed, barely any tilts or other smashes were used (minus maybe d-tilt) , DA was obselete, Popgun was unnecessary and saw little use at all since MF and Nana approaches were fine and the other aerials may as well have been filler, minus maybe bair once in a while.

Diddy was unfun to watch, and didn't even look balanced. Half of his arsenal was braindead and the other half was obselete, less useful or plain useless. This is clearly not how Sakurai defines a fun character. Its been pretty clear that when certain moves see no mileage due to flaws and others see too much mileage because they're so good, he rebalances them in a way that he feels puts them on par. MK's jab and f-tilt were weak, so he buffs them. Greninja's Up-Smash was ridiculous but his f-tilt was crap, so he adjusted them. Ike had a terrible DA and laggy aerials outside of fair and bair, so he improved them. Diddy is not exempt from this philosophy.

So what have these patches done? Nerf the biggest offenders (Uair, fair, MF, Nana, F-Smash, U-throw/D-throw) and then buff his most useless attacks (jab and U-smash, which links better). Sakurai clearly wants the characters to be played with all of their tools, and not just a handful of broken ones. He wants every move to be useful and wants everyone to consider all of their options instead of "l0l nana toss, garb, uairuairuairuairfsmash lololo0lol0lol." Its kinda obvious that the mindless uair spam and generally braindead Diddy play was what put the nail in his coffin. I feel like he would've been hit less hard if people would have been a bit more diverse in their use of Diddy. But hoo-hah sealed the deal. We probably have only ourselves to blame for his neutering. And Sakurai to blame for making him so good in the first place so that he could be played this way, and then taking the wind out of his sails after so many became accustomed to him.

That said, he's still fast, has great tools, rather lagless attacks, a versatile projectile game and fluid play. He just gets punished harder now for rushdown, making him like MK; risk and reward for getting in close. Only replace low reach and a light weight with a bit of ending lag. He's still solid everyone. Don't act like he's Brawl Falcon or Dorf.

As for Sheik, her terrible damage output, even worse killing tools and the fact that most of her moves actually see use likely makes Sakurai think he's done enough to her. She's already been nerfed three times. Yeah she's still stupid good, but she's diverse and takes a high understanding to use at top level. Diddy...he kinda didn't. But now he probably will. @ TSM ZeRo TSM ZeRo will still excel with him, and he'll still perform well. It just won't be as easy.

Eh, I don't know about any of this. I literally used all of Diddy's moves. Did you know I used jab to cancel sonic's spin dash on reaction? Peanuts to cover ledge? Forward throw at low percents, nair to extend combos, etc. But as you mention, the entry level players certainly did play that way. But for the other characters? I don't exactly see variety in Sheik play, Luigi play or Sheik play.

Calling Diddy easy to play... look at Luigi or Rosalina. Two characters who use one move that get amazing results (Throw combos and jab) It's just not entirely correct to blame the monkey for grab combos when luigi has an even better one.

Anyhow, useless to talk about this things.
 

Zapp Branniglenn

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 13, 2014
Messages
1,707
Location
Santa Ana, CA
Been checking end lag on moves for the Mario cast, no changes other than what was noted already for Bowser, Diddy, and Donkey Kong.

Link's Fthrow is faster to act out of. Just eyeballing it, it seems like three frames faster, and I'm sure somebody will have confirmed numbers at some point.
 

Thinkaman

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I have a very large amount of data for you very soon.

Blame Falco, Ike, and Link for the delays.
 

Ohio86

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 16, 2014
Messages
47
I think the reality of the deal is that half the cast has a combo that is very linkable. Falcon and Zero Suit can easily do a hoo-hah combo-but it doesn't ko as easy as Diddy's did. More importantly and I can be wrong- I think a lot of the data comes from (if I remember the famitzu article of early this year) for glory. Remember them talking about how Little Mac had a really low win percentage? To be honest- Putting a nerf on Diddy diversified the roster. The first time Diddy was hit I noticed some less Diddys at tournaments. Now that it has happened again I am sure that we will see only the die hards and those that have practiced him well remain. I'm excited to fight things that aren't Diddy's in bracket. Actually since the last patch I've noticed a collection of Ike players step into the scene. It's actually kind of exciting to play against new characters. I'm excited to see what players step forth now that Diddy has been nerved again. For those of you that are true Diddy mains it is unfortunate. Though I think it is good for the whole....

But seriously...Where are the Megaman buffs?
 

LordWilliam1234

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Messages
410
Switch FC
7820-3654-7995
Went through Marth's frame data (for the gifs, as always top is 1.06 and bottom is 1.08);

Jab 1 total frame count increased, from 26 -> 28.



Jab 1 IASA frame moved to 3 frames earlier.



Jab 1 Tipper hit: Self block-freeze 9 -> 8, opponent block-freeze 7 -> 6, blockstun 3 -> 2.



Jab 2 total frame count increased, from 26 -> 28.



Can confirm that U-tilt total frames reduced from 42 -> 39.

Can confirm that N-air landing lag reduced from 15 -> 12.

Dolphin Slash: Self hit-lag increased by 2 frames, 4 -> 6.



(Shield size doesn't affect hit-lag)

I'll have gifs of the new stuff in a bit. Then I'll check to see if Lucina got the same changes (minus the tipper change obviously).
 
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Schiffe

PK Love
Joined
May 2, 2015
Messages
145
NNID
Schiffe
There's some Madness going on Wario and Toon-Link/Link's 1.08 files. How unpleasant.
 

Shucklin

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 4, 2014
Messages
22
Yes, it was improved. Link for example, uses Zair now. And welcome to day-one Greninja. Sorry that you only noticed this now.
Yeah I had a Lucas cpu perfectly space 3 zairs. I must have just never seen it happen, never really played much greninja (never used counter) and nobody i know plays him. I guess maybe the cpus didn't use it until now
 

Vipermoon

King Marth's most trusted advisor.
Joined
Jan 4, 2015
Messages
2,661
Location
PNW
Switch FC
SW-3371-7457-0227
Went through Marth's frame data;

Jab 1 total frame count increased, from 26 -> 28.

Jab 1 IASA frame moved to 3 frames earlier.

Jab 1 Tipper hit: Self block-freeze 9 -> 8, opponent block-freeze 7 -> 6, blockstun 3 -> 2.

Jab 2 total frame count increased, from 26 -> 28.

Can confirm that U-tilt total frames reduced from 42 -> 39.

Can confirm that N-air landing lag reduced from 15 -> 12.

Dolphin Slash: Self hit-lag increased by 2 frames, 4 -> 6.

I'll have gifs of the new stuff in a bit. Then I'll check to see if Lucina got the same changes (minus the tipper change obviously).
Noooooooooo. Just think, if jab 1 had pre-patch end lag then jab 1 to tipper Fsmash will combo MUCH earlier (right now it combos at about 200%), but whatever, jab to Utilt is still is a combo and kill setup (I'm loving how strong Utilt is now). But yeah damn, input jab 2 now on frame 17! That's crazy. I thought it was 18.

I thought I noticed a hitlag increase with Dolphin Slash but I wasn't sure. This really sucks though, more hitlag means oppenents have more time to DI/VI it so despite the knockback increase you might not see rage mode, near ledge jank with this move.

Thank you though.
 
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Nights Owl

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
151
Yeah I had a Lucas cpu perfectly space 3 zairs. I must have just never seen it happen, never really played much greninja (never used counter) and nobody i know plays him. I guess maybe the cpus didn't use it until now
On a complete opposite note, Ganon just spams D-Special a bunch. Lol
 

KeithTheGeek

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Messages
576
Location
VA
NNID
bkeith
3DS FC
5026-4475-8239
So comparing an (admittedly crappy) recording of 1.0.7 from 3DS and 1.0.8 from Wii U, Dedede's inhale does not seem have any changes in start-up or cooldown. I got the gifs here, anyways. Of course some other confirmation would be good to have:



 

Schiffe

PK Love
Joined
May 2, 2015
Messages
145
NNID
Schiffe


Interesting view of Zelda's Up Smash (the first hitbox). 1.07 is left and 1.08 is the right.
 
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Project Quarantine

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 21, 2014
Messages
125
Location
Minnesota
NNID
ianwit8
I heard people saying that sheik had a trajectory nerf to fair and an increase to needle endlag. Is this true? Is there proof?

(Sorry if this has already been resolved)
 
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Schiffe

PK Love
Joined
May 2, 2015
Messages
145
NNID
Schiffe
I heard people saying that sheik had a trajectory nerf to fair and an increase to needle endlag. Is this true? Is there proof?

(Sorry if this has already been resolved)
Forward Air received absolutely no changes whatsoever. Placebo is always a factor to consider.
 

KuroganeHammer

It's ya boy
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Jul 15, 2012
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Australia
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Zapp Branniglenn

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 13, 2014
Messages
1,707
Location
Santa Ana, CA
How much of a difference does the addition of the SDI multiplier make?

:059:
When a move has an SDI multiplier of 0.5, then the victim will have only 50% of their normal effectiveness trying to SDI away from the move. This is common of many multihit moves, and I'm surprised that it wasn't already on her Usmash.
 

Ixisnaugus

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 22, 2007
Messages
316
Location
UK, London
NNID
IxisNaugus
can someone with frame advance test the exact amount of endlag on mk ftilt 1 2 and 3? i know end lag was reduced on all of them and id like to know the new values thanks
While recording Sonic aerials I remembered this post and captured MK's titlts. I got 19 frames of recovery for Ftilt1, 25 for FTilt2 and 28 for FTilt3. I think someone asked for Nair landing lag frames as well? I recorded that and got 16 frames of landing lag.

Oh yes, and I was wrong about Sonic not changing, I apologize.

EDIT: @ Thinkaman Thinkaman you wanted landing state transition (lag) frames across the cast recorded right? I can do this, but I can't record for 1.0.6 and backwards, is the data for that archived anywhere?
 
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~ Gheb ~

Life is just a party
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
16,917
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Europe
When a move has an SDI multiplier of 0.5, then the victim will have only 50% of their normal effectiveness trying to SDI away from the move. This is common of many multihit moves, and I'm surprised that it wasn't already on her Usmash.
I fail to see the point though. Has anybody ever actually managed to get out of her usmash?

:059:
 

David Wonn

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 24, 2010
Messages
608
Location
Ohio
"Three-for-alls" (3P free-for-all matches) no longer award one-third the winnings in Spectator Mode if you pick the player who won 2nd place. This used to be the case on version 1.01, but now you can only get 2nd place payoffs in 4P free-for-alls. Does anyone know whether 1.08 specifically changed this, or was it a prior patch?
 
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Lavani

Indigo Destiny
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
Messages
7,256
Seeing as it's possible to SDI out of Twisting Fox I highly doubt it would've been harder to escape pre-buff Zelda usmash. Not to mention the attack had issues with people falling out doing nothing, which the hitbox size increase alone should fix. These changes should make the move much more consistent overall, at any rate.

Also confirming the 20→16f change in landing lag for :4metaknight:'s nair.
 
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Brinzy

Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
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I fail to see the point though. Has anybody ever actually managed to get out of her usmash?

:059:
There's 7 frames of delay between the 4th and 5th hit of Usmash, and all but the likes of characters like Fox and Falcon could easily fall out. Same goes for Fsmash, although it has been improved. Both of these have single-handedly lost me games, but it's something you live with after a while.

Still, it should be basically impossible outside of egregious situations to fall out of her Usmash now.
 
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Schiffe

PK Love
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Messages
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Schiffe
There's 7 frames of delay between the 4th and 5th hit of Usmash, and all but the likes of characters like Fox and Falcon could easily fall out. Same goes for Fsmash, although it has been improved. Both of these have single-handedly lost me games, but it's something you live with after a while.

Still, it should be basically impossible outside of egregious situations to fall out of her Usmash now.
To counter this problem, they reduced the WKB of the multi-hits and increased their sizes.

 
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Thinkaman

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Alright, never say I don't love you guys. Shoutouts to Schiffe for supplying the files.

REMEMBER, this does NOT include:
  • IASA times on animations (endlag nor landing lag)
  • Overall engine quirks/alterations
  • Grabbable items
  • Anything involving Mewtwo; I don't have readable 1.0.6/7 files for him. (If you do, please share?)
  • Anything involving the new characters. (This is a changelog!)
This DOES include any and all possible changes to:
  • Hitbox ID, damage, knockback, angle, element, size, position, tripping, SDI, hitlag, ect.
  • Move startup times
  • Animation speedup-based timing changes
  • All move startup timings
  • All AC timings
  • All super/heavy armor (spoilers, no changes)
  • All state transitions (like jabs)
It is possible but unlikely that any of these were missed while compiling this list.

Code:
Mario
-----
NO CHANGES

Luigi
-----
NO CHANGES

Peach
-----
Jab2
    hitbox 1
        size 2.4 -> 3.0
    hitbox 2
        size 2.4 -> 4.0

Bowser
------
Utilt
    unknown events frame 11 -> 10
    hitbox 2 removed
    all hitboxes
        frame 12 -> 11
        damage 10 -> 9
        x 7.4 -> 6.9
    animation speed 1.5x for frames 17-52 (11 frames faster?)

Yoshi
-----
NO CHANGES

Rosalina
--------
Rapid Jab End
    hitbox
        kbg 170 -> 150

Bowser Jr.
----------
NO CHANGES

Wario
-----
Unknown parameters set to 63 and 15 on many of his hitboxes
Jab1
    hitbox 0
        angle 65 -> 55
        bkb 35 -> 45
    hitbox 1
        angle 75 -> 72
        kbg 50 -> 40
        bkb 28 -> 38
Jab2
    third hitbox added, positions adjusted
    all hitboxes
        size 5.5/3.5 -> 5.8/3.8/3.3

Mr. Game & Watch
----------------
Dtilt
    hitbox 0 (6%)
        kbg 120 -> 125
        bkb 10 -> 40
    hitbox 1 (1%)
        kbg 100 -> 120
        bkb 60 -> 70
        size 9.0 -> 10.5
        unknown param 11.0 -> 9.0

Donkey Kong
-----------
Cargo fthrow
    throwbox 0 (launching component of throw)
        damage 8 -> 10
Cargo bthrow
    throwbox 0 (launching component of throw)
        damage 8 -> 12
        angle 55 -> 72
        bkb 80 -> 70
Cargo uthrow
    throwbox 0 (launching component of throw)
        damage 7 -> 10
Cargo dthrow
    throwbox 0 (launching component of throw)
        damage 6 -> 7
        angle 45 -> 48
        kbg 38 -> 80
        bkb 65 -> 50
    unknown event moved from frame 18 -> 17
        momentum boost added

Diddy Kong
----------
Jab1
    all hitboxes
        damage 1.5 -> 1.2
    transition to jab2
        frame 10 -> 8
Jab2
    all hitboxes
        damage 1.5 -> 1.2
    transition to jab3
        frame 9 -> 8
Jab3
    all hitboxes
        wkb 30 -> 25
        size 4.0/3.5/3.0 -> 4.2/3.7/3.2
    transition to rapid jab loop
        frame 22 -> 15
Rapid Jab Loop
    a variety of small hitboxes replaced with one big one
    new hitboxes
        damage 0.6 -> 0.5
        angle 70/90 -> 60
        wkb 6 -> 4
        size 3.0 -> 6.7
        SDI 1.3 -> 0.7
        unknown param (default) -> 6.8
        unknown param (default) -> 6.0
Rapid Jab End
    animation speed 2.0x for frames 0-8 (4 frames faster)
    hitbox
        kbg 180 -> 177
        bkb 30 -> 45
        size 5.0 -> 7.2
        y 5.5 -> 6.8
        unknown param 5.5 -> 6.8
        unknown param 5.5 -> 6.0
Dtilt
    new 3rd hitbox (centered on clap?) identical to other two
    all hitboxes
        damage 6.0 -> 5.5
Uair
    all hitboxes
        begin frame 3 -> 4
        kbg 99 -> 89
        bkb 65 -> 64
    landing lag window
        3-15 -> 0-27
Uthrow
    hitbox (launching component of throw)
        damage 4 -> 1 (total 8 -> 5)
        bkb 100 -> 120
        bkb 30 -> 50
Dthrow
    throwbox 0 (launching component of throw)
        damage 6.0 -> 7.0
        angle 105 -> 106
        kbg 50 -> 59

Link
----
Jab 1
    massive adjustments; hitbox timings, sizes, positions, angles, and knockback entirely reworked with separate ground/aerial target hitboxes
Dtilt
    animation speed 1.33x for frames 0-12 (2 frames faster?)
    hitboxes
        damage 12 -> 11
        x 12.8/15.4 -> 14.1/16.6
Grab
    unknown param 28 -> 32
    animation speed 1.25x for frames 30-70 instead of 1.33x for frames 30-54 (3 frames faster?)
Dash Grab
    unknown param 28 -> 32
    animation speed 1.25x for frames 32-71 (8 frames faster?)
Pivot Grab
    unknown param 37 -> 41
    animation speed 1.25x for frames 33-72 (8 frames faster?)
Fthrow
    throwbox 0 (launching component of throw)
        angle 55 -> 50
Dthrow
    throwbox 0 (launching component of throw)
        damage 4 -> 3
        angle 110 -> 83
        kbg 90 -> 85
Spin Attack
    all stage 1 (of 4) hitboxes
        kbg 84 -> 85
    all stage 2 (of 4) hitboxes
        kbg 80 -> 85
    all stage 3 (of 4) hitboxes
        kbg 80 -> 82
Shocking Spin Attack
    all stage 2 (of 3) hitboxes
        kbg 80 -> 82

Zelda
-----
Usmash
    all looping hitboxes
        increased in size by 0.5
        wkb 40/50/60/60 -> all 40
        SDI 1.0 -> 0.5
    final hitboxes
        kbg 190 -> 214
Nair
    hitbox 0 and 1 IDs and damage (1.0/2.0) swapped

Sheik
-----
NO CHANGES

Ganondorf
---------
NO CHANGES

Toon Link
---------
Jab1
    hitbox 0 and 2 IDs swapped
Jab2
    hitbox 0 and 2 IDs swapped
    kbg 37 -> 34
    bkb 16 -> 25
Jab3
    all hitboxes
        size 3.5 -> 4.2
    hitbox 0
        z 5.0 -> 4.5

Samus
-----
Usmash
    all hitboxes increased in size by 0.5
    some hitboxes split in two, or given angle+wkb adjustments
    final hitbox
        kbg 135 -> 150
        size 7.0/3.5 -> 7.3/4.0

Zero Suit Samus
---------------
NO CHANGES

Pit
---
NO CHANGES

Palutena
--------
Utilt
    all hitboxes
        bone 1000 -> 0
        size and positions adjusted heavily
    looping hitboxes
        damage 1.0 -> 1.2

Marth
-----
Jab1
    all hitboxes
        damage 4/6 -> 3/5
        angle 361 -> 78/65/90
        kbg 50/70 -> 30
        bkb 20/30 -> 55
        hitlag 1.0 -> 0.7
    transition to jab2
        frame 20 -> 17
Jab2
    all hitboxes
        angle 361 -> 45
        kbg 50/70 -> 75
        bkb 20/30 -> 62
Utilt
    initial hitboxes
        angle 361 -> 100 (already 100 on hitboxes 0,3)
        bkb 50 -> 65
    delayed hitboxes
        angle 361 -> 100 (already 100 on hitboxes 0,3)
        bkb 40 -> 52
Dolphin Slash
    initial hitboxes
        kbg 68 -> 74
        hitlag 0.5 -> 0.7
Crescent Slash
    initial hitboxes
        hitlag 0.5 -> 0.7

Ike
---
Jab1
    transition to jab2
        frame 13 -> 10
Jab2
    new hitbox added as hitbox 1; old hitbox 1 changed to hitbox 2
    hitbox 0
        y 8.0 -> 7.5
    new hitbox 1
        angle 80 (others are 65)
        kbg 80 (others are 80/100)
        wbg 25 (others are 40/50)
        size 3.5
Jab3
    hitboxes appear on frame 7 -> 6 (1 frame faster)
    hitbox 3
        size 2.5 -> 3.2
    hitbox duration 3 -> 4 frames
Dash Attack
    animation speed 1.25x for frames 0-17 (3 frames faster?)
    hitboxes appear on frame 18 -> 17 (4 frames faster total?)
    hitbox 0
        damage 10 -> 14
        angle 55 -> 52
        kbg 70 -> 78
        size 6.0 -> 6.3
        hitlag 1.0 -> 1.2
    hitbox 1
        damage 8 -> 11
        angle 55 -> 52
        kbg 70 -> 78
    hitbox 2
        damage 5 -> 9

Ftilt (all)
    animation speed 1.25x for frames 0-14 (2 frames faster?)
    hitboxes appear on frame 15 -> 14 (3 frames faster total?)
    all 3 old hitboxes replaced with 1 new one
    new hitbox
        bone 1000 -> 1
        damage 14/14/12 -> 12.5
Utilt
    initial hitbox
        y 12.0 -> 13.0
    delayed hitbox
        y 10.5 -> 12.0
        lasts until frame 19 -> 22 (duration 5 -> 8 frames)
Fair
    hitboxes appear on frame 16 -> 14 (2 frames faster)
    hitbox 0
        y 9.0 -> 10.5
    hitbox 1
        y 6.2 -> 6.75
    hitbox 2
        y 4.0 -> 3.0
Some 1.25x animation speed added to a couple unknown minor actions (non-attacks)

Robin
-----
NO CHANGES

Kirby
-----
NO CHANGES

King Dedede
-----------
NO CHANGES

Meta Knight
-----------
Rapid Jab Loop
    all hitboxes
        divided into 2 for better coverage (positions adjusted)
        damage 1.0 -> 1.2
        kbg 40 -> 30
        size 5.5 -> 5.8/6.8 pairs
        SDI 1.0 -> 0.6
Rapid Jab End
    hitbox
        size 5.7 -> 8.0
        y 5.5 -> 7.0
        x 18.0 -> 20.0
Ftilt3
    all hitboxes
        damage 3 -> 4
        angle 65 -> 361
        kbg 110 -> 107

Little Mac
----------
NO CHANGES

Fox
---
NO CHANGES

Falco
-----
Unknown parameters set to 63 and 15 on many of his hitboxes
Jab1
    hitbox 0 and 2 IDs swapped
    all hitboxes
        bkb 30 -> 35
    hitbox 0 (new)
        angle 80 -> 68
        size 2.0 -> 2.5
        z 0.0 -> -0.5
    hitbox 1
        angle 80 -> 77
        size 3.0 -> 3.2
Jab2
    hitbox 2
        angle 50 -> 45
        size 2.0 -> 5.0
        z 0.0 -> -0.5
    transition to jab3
        frame 10 -> 9
Rapid Jab Loop
    hitbox 0
        size 2.0 -> 2.7
    hitbox 1
        size 3.0 -> 3.2
Usmash
    ID and GID tweaks to hitboxes
    final hitboxes last frames 13-20 -> 12-21
Nair
    basically a different move; same timings, but all 16 of its hitboxes have been altered
        generally wkb increased and most angles set to 367 and sizes significantly increases
Fair
    animation speed 1.33x for frames 0-37 (9 frames faster total? hits 2 frames faster?)
    looping hitboxes
        refresh time 6 -> 4 (total looping hits 3 -> 5, or 7 -> 9 damage total)
Fair Landing
    hitbox
        damage 5 -> 3
        bkb 30 -> 50
Uair
    animation speed 1.5x for frames 0-8 (2 frames faster?)
    hitboxes appear on frame 10 -> 8 (4 frames faster total)
    all hitboxes
        damage 11 -> 10
        angle 68/68/80 -> 65/75/85
        kbg 100/100/20 -> 90/90/90
        bkb 27/27/30 -> 35/35/35
    hitbox 0
        size 4.8 -> 5.0
Dair
    initial hitbox bifurcated; hits grounded targets at angle 80
    sourspot replaces on frame 19 -> 20 (sweetspot duration 3 -> 4)
    sourspot hitbox
        size 5.0 -> 5.3

Pikachu
-------
NO CHANGES

Charizard
---------
Jab1
    hitbox 0
        wkb 15 -> 26
    hitbox 1 + 2
        wkb 10 -> 22
    transition to jab2
        frame 10 -> 9
Jab2
    transition to jab3
        frame 10 -> 9
Jab3
    all hitboxes
        kbg 110 -> 130
Fair
    hitbox 0
        size 4.3 -> 4.6
        x 7.0 -> 7.5
    delayed hitbox 0
        kbg 98 -> 97
        size 4.5 -> 4.8
        z 7.0 -> 7.5
    hitboxes removed on frame 12-> 13 (total duration 4 -> 5)
Uthrow
    throwbox 0 (launching component of throw)
        angle 60 -> 70
        kbg 160 -> 220
Dthrow
    throwbox 0 (launching component of throw)
        angle 361 -> 70
        kbg 300 -> 130
        bkb 40 -> 70

Lucario
-------
Jab1
    hitbox 0
        angle 60 -> 80
        kbg 30 -> 10
        bkb 45 -> 33
    hitbox 1
        kgb 30 -> 10
        bkb 45 -> 33
    delayed hitbox 0
        angle 90 -> 80
        kbg 30 -> 10
        bkb 50 -> 32
Jab2
    hitbox 0
        angle 72 -> 60
        kbg 30 -> 20
        bkb 50 -> 38
    hitbox 1
        kgb 30 -> 20
        bkb 50 -> 32
    hitbox 2
        kgb 30 -> 20

Jigglypuff
----------
NO CHANGES

Greninja
--------
Ftilt (all)
    all hitboxes
        damage 6.5 -> 7.3
        kbg 112 -> 110/90/70
        bkb 15 -> 20/30/40
    hitboxes 1 + 2 have z-pos adjusted
    hitbox 2 bone 3 -> 5
    animation speed 1.33x from frame 13-38 (7 frames faster?)

Duck Hunt
---------
NO CHANGES

R.O.B.
------
NO CHANGES

Ness
----
NO CHANGES

Captain Falcon
--------------
F-smash (up)
    all hitboxes
        KBG 94 -> 95
F-smash (straight)
    all hitboxes
        KBG 94 -> 95
F-smash (down)
    all hitboxes
        KBG 84 -> 83
Uair
    initial hitbox 0
        damage 13 -> 11
        bkg 10 -> 16
    initial hitbox 1
        damage 12 -> 10
        bkg 10 -> 16
    late hitbox 0
        damage 12 -> 10
        bkg 8 -> 10
    late hitbox 1
        damage 10 -> 9
        bkg 8 -> 10

Villager
--------
Weird FacingRestriction Flag removed from Bair Projectile Hitboxes
Fthrow
    throwbox 0 (launching component of throw)
        bkb 100 -> 102
Bthrow
    throwbox 0 (launching component of throw)
        bkb 15 -> 18
Dthrow
    throwbox 0 (launching component of throw)
        damage 4.5 -> 6.0
        kbg 105 -> 80

Olimar
------
NO CHANGES

Wii Fit Trainer
---------------
NO CHANGES

Dr. Mario
---------
NO CHANGES

Dark Pit
--------
NO CHANGES

Lucina
------
Jab1
    all hitboxes
        damage 4.75 -> 3.325
        angle 361 -> 78/65/90
        kbg 50 -> 30
        bkb 20 -> 55
        hitlag 1.0 -> 0.7
    transition to jab2
        frame 20 -> 18
Jab2
    all hitboxes
        angle 361 -> 45
        kbg 60 -> 75
        bkb 25 -> 62
        hitlag 1.0 -> 0.7
        unknown param 0 -> 1
Ftilt
    all hitboxes
        damage 9.975 -> 10.925
Utilt
    initial hitboxes
        angle 361 -> 100 (already 100 on hitboxes 0,3)
        bkb 50 -> 65
    delayed hitboxes
        angle 361 -> 100 (already 100 on hitboxes 0,3)
        bkb 40 -> 52
Dolphin Slash
    initial hitboxes
        kbg 68 -> 74
        hitlag 0.5 -> 0.7
Crescent Slash
    initial hitboxes
        hitlag 0.5 -> 0.7

Shulk
-----
NO CHANGES

Pac-Man
-------
NO CHANGES

Mega Man
--------
NO CHANGES

Sonic
-----
Usmash
    final hitbox
        kbg 177 -> 165

Mewtwo
------
Usmash
    initial hitbox
        angle 95 -> 100
        size 6.2 -> 3.0
        x 0.0 -> -6.0

Lucas
-----
[NEW]

Roy
---
[NEW]

Ryu
---
[NEW]

Mii Brawler
-----------
Onslaught Startup (ground and aerial)
    all windboxes
        unknown params changed
    windbox 1
        angle 50 -> 361
        kbg 100 -> 0
        wkb 80 -> 0
        element Hit -> Push

Mii Swordfighter
----------------
Unknown parameters set to 63 and 15 on many of his hitboxes
Jab1
    animation speed 1.25x for frames 0-5 (1 frame faster)
    hitboxes appear on frame 7 -> 6 (2 frames faster total)
    hitbox 2 split into 2
    all hitboxes
        angle 85/361/361 -> 85/50/45/45
        kbg 37 -> 20
        bkb 16 -> 32
    transition to jab2
        frame 10 -> 9
Jab2
    hitboxes 0 and 1 IDs swapped
    hitbox 1
        swapped angle 100 -> 96
    hitbox 2 split into 2
    transition to jab3
        frame 10 -> 9
Jab3
    hitboxes 0 and 1 IDs swapped
    hitbox 2 split into 2
Dash Attack
    all hitboxes
        size 3.0/2.2 -> 4.0/3.0
Ftilt
    hitbox 1 split into 2
Nair
    animation speed 1.18x for frames 0-10 (1 frame faster?)
    hitboxes appear on frame 12 -> 11 (2 frames faster total)
Fair
    hitbox 2 (initial and middle)
        size 2.4 -> 3.5
    hitbox 2 (final)
        size 3.2 -> 3.5
Bair
    all hitboxes
        damage 12 -> 14
Dair Landing
    hitbox
        x 9.0 -> 10.5
Slash Launcher
    windbox 0
        x 5.0 -> 6.0

Mii Gunner
----------
NO CHANGES
 
Last edited:

Schiffe

PK Love
Joined
May 2, 2015
Messages
145
NNID
Schiffe
Alright, never say I don't love you guys. Shoutouts to Schiffe for supplying the files.

REMEMBER, this does NOT include:
  • IASA times on animations (endlag nor landing lag)
  • Overall engine quirks/alterations
  • Grabbable items
  • Anything involving Mewtwo; we don't have readable 1.0.6/7 files for him.
  • Anything involving the new characters. (This is a changelog!)
This DOES include any and all possible changes to:
  • Hitbox ID, damage, knockback, angle, element, size, position, tripping, SDI, hitlag, ect.
  • Move startup times
  • Animation speedup-based timing changes
  • All move startup timings
  • All AC timings
  • All super/heavy armor (spoilers, no changes)
  • All state transitions (like jabs)
It is possible but unlikely that any of these were missed while compiling this list.

Code:
Mario
-----
NO CHANGES

Luigi
-----
NO CHANGES

Peach
-----
Jab2
    hitbox 1
        size 2.4 -> 3.0
    hitbox 2
        size 2.4 -> 4.0

Bowser
------
Utilt
    unknown events frame 11 -> 10
    hitbox 2 removed
    all hitboxes
        frame 12 -> 11
        damage 10 -> 9
        x 7.4 -> 6.9
    animation speed 1.5x for frames 17-52 (11 frames faster?)

Yoshi
-----
NO CHANGES

Rosalina
--------
Rapid Jab End
    hitbox
        kbg 170 -> 150

Bowser Jr.
----------
NO CHANGES

Wario
-----
Unknown parameters set to 63 and 15 on many of his hitboxes
Jab1
    hitbox 0
        angle 65 -> 55
        bkb 35 -> 45
    hitbox 1
        angle 75 -> 72
        kbg 50 -> 40
        bkb 28 -> 38
Jab2
    third hitbox added, positions adjusted
    all hitboxes
        size 5.5/3.5 -> 5.8/3.8/3.3

Mr. Game & Watch
----------------
Dtilt
    hitbox 0 (6%)
        kbg 120 -> 125
        bkb 10 -> 40
    hitbox 1 (1%)
        kbg 100 -> 120
        bkb 60 -> 70
        size 9.0 -> 10.5
        unknown param 11.0 -> 9.0

Donkey Kong
-----------
Cargo fthrow
    throwbox 0 (launching component of throw)
        damage 8 -> 10
Cargo bthrow
    throwbox 0 (launching component of throw)
        damage 8 -> 12
        angle 55 -> 72
        bkb 80 -> 70
Cargo uthrow
    throwbox 0 (launching component of throw)
        damage 7 -> 10
Cargo dthrow
    throwbox 0 (launching component of throw)
        damage 6 -> 7
        angle 45 -> 48
        kbg 38 -> 80
        bkb 65 -> 50
    unknown event moved from frame 18 -> 17
        momentum boost added

Diddy Kong
----------
Jab1
    all hitboxes
        damage 1.5 -> 1.2
    transition to jab2
        frame 10 -> 8
Jab2
    all hitboxes
        damage 1.5 -> 1.2
    transition to jab3
        frame 9 -> 8
Jab3
    all hitboxes
        wkb 30 -> 25
        size 4.0/3.5/3.0 -> 4.2/3.7/3.2
    transition to rapid jab loop
        frame 22 -> 15
Rapid Jab Loop
    a variety of small hitboxes replaced with one big one
    new hitboxes
        damage 0.6 -> 0.5
        angle 70/90 -> 60
        wkb 6 -> 4
        size 3.0 -> 6.7
        SDI 1.3 -> 0.7
        unknown param (default) -> 6.8
        unknown param (default) -> 6.0
Rapid Jab End
    animation speed 2.0x for frames 0-8 (4 frames faster)
    hitbox
        kbg 180 -> 177
        bkb 30 -> 45
        size 5.0 -> 7.2
        y 5.5 -> 6.8
        unknown param 5.5 -> 6.8
        unknown param 5.5 -> 6.0
Dtilt
    new 3rd hitbox (centered on clap?) identical to other two
    all hitboxes
        damage 6.0 -> 5.5
Uair
    all hitboxes
        begin frame 3 -> 4
        kbg 99 -> 89
        bkb 65 -> 64
    landing lag window
        3-15 -> 0-27
Uthrow
    hitbox (launching component of throw)
        damage 4 -> 1 (total 8 -> 5)
        bkb 100 -> 120
        bkb 30 -> 50
Dthrow
    throwbox 0 (launching component of throw)
        damage 6.0 -> 7.0
        angle 105 -> 106
        kbg 50 -> 59

Link
----
Jab 1
    massive adjustments; hitbox timings, sizes, positions, angles, and knockback entirely reworked with separate ground/aerial target hitboxes
Dtilt
    animation speed 1.33x for frames 0-12 (2 frames faster?)
    hitboxes
        damage 12 -> 11
        x 12.8/15.4 -> 14.1/16.6
Grab
    unknown param 28 -> 32
    animation speed 1.25x for frames 30-70 instead of 1.33x for frames 30-54 (3 frames faster?)
Dash Grab
    unknown param 28 -> 32
    animation speed 1.25x for frames 32-71 (8 frames faster?)
Pivot Grab
    unknown param 37 -> 41
    animation speed 1.25x for frames 33-72 (8 frames faster?)
Fthrow
    throwbox 0 (launching component of throw)
        angle 55 -> 50
Dthrow
    throwbox 0 (launching component of throw)
        damage 4 -> 3
        angle 110 -> 83
        kbg 90 -> 85
Spin Attack
    all stage 1 (of 4) hitboxes
        kbg 84 -> 85
    all stage 2 (of 4) hitboxes
        kbg 80 -> 85
    all stage 3 (of 4) hitboxes
        kbg 80 -> 82
Shocking Spin Attack
    all stage 2 (of 3) hitboxes
        kbg 80 -> 82

Zelda
-----
Usmash
    all looping hitboxes
        increased in size by 0.5
        wkb 40/50/60/60 -> all 40
        SDI 1.0 -> 0.5
    final hitboxes
        kbg 190 -> 214
Nair
    hitbox 0 and 1 IDs and damage (1.0/2.0) swapped

Sheik
-----
NO CHANGES

Ganondorf
---------
NO CHANGES

Toon Link
---------
Jab1
    hitbox 0 and 2 IDs swapped
Jab2
    hitbox 0 and 2 IDs swapped
    kbg 37 -> 34
    bkb 16 -> 25
Jab3
    all hitboxes
        size 3.5 -> 4.2
    hitbox 0
        z 5.0 -> 4.5

Samus
-----
Usmash
    all hitboxes increased in size by 0.5
    some hitboxes split in two, or given angle+wkb adjustments
    final hitbox
        kbg 135 -> 150
        size 7.0/3.5 -> 7.3/4.0

Zero Suit Samus
---------------
NO CHANGES

Pit
---
NO CHANGES

Palutena
--------
Utilt
    all hitboxes
        bone 1000 -> 0
        size and positions adjusted heavily
    looping hitboxes
        damage 1.0 -> 1.2

Marth
-----
Jab1
    all hitboxes
        damage 4/6 -> 3/5
        angle 361 -> 78/65/90
        kbg 50/70 -> 30
        bkb 20/30 -> 55
        hitlag 1.0 -> 0.7
    transition to jab2
        frame 20 -> 17
Jab2
    all hitboxes
        angle 361 -> 45
        kbg 50/70 -> 75
        bkb 20/30 -> 62
Utilt
    initial hitboxes
        angle 361 -> 100 (already 100 on hitboxes 0,3)
        bkb 50 -> 65
    delayed hitboxes
        angle 361 -> 100 (already 100 on hitboxes 0,3)
        bkb 40 -> 52
Dolphin Slash
    initial hitboxes
        kbg 68 -> 74
        hitlag 0.5 -> 0.7
Crescent Slash
    initial hitboxes
        hitlag 0.5 -> 0.7

Ike
---
Jab1
    transition to jab2
        frame 13 -> 10
Jab2
    new hitbox added as hitbox 1; old hitbox 1 changed to hitbox 2
    hitbox 0
        y 8.0 -> 7.5
    new hitbox 1
        angle 80 (others are 65)
        kbg 80 (others are 80/100)
        wbg 25 (others are 40/50)
        size 3.5
Jab3
    hitboxes appear on frame 7 -> 6 (1 frame faster)
    hitbox 3
        size 2.5 -> 3.2
    hitbox duration 3 -> 4 frames
Dash Attack
    animation speed 1.25x for frames 0-17 (3 frames faster?)
    hitboxes appear on frame 18 -> 17 (4 frames faster total?)
    hitbox 0
        damage 10 -> 14
        angle 55 -> 52
        kbg 70 -> 78
        size 6.0 -> 6.3
        hitlag 1.0 -> 1.2
    hitbox 1
        damage 8 -> 11
        angle 55 -> 52
        kbg 70 -> 78
    hitbox 2
        damage 5 -> 9

Ftilt (all)
    animation speed 1.25x for frames 0-14 (2 frames faster?)
    hitboxes appear on frame 15 -> 14 (3 frames faster total?)
    all 3 old hitboxes replaced with 1 new one
    new hitbox
        bone 1000 -> 1
        damage 14/14/12 -> 12.5
Utilt
    initial hitbox
        y 12.0 -> 13.0
    delayed hitbox
        y 10.5 -> 12.0
        lasts until frame 19 -> 22 (duration 5 -> 8 frames)
Fair
    hitboxes appear on frame 16 -> 14 (2 frames faster)
    hitbox 0
        y 9.0 -> 10.5
    hitbox 1
        y 6.2 -> 6.75
    hitbox 2
        y 4.0 -> 3.0
Some 1.25x animation speed added to a couple unknown minor actions (non-attacks)

Robin
-----
NO CHANGES

Kirby
-----
NO CHANGES

King Dedede
-----------
NO CHANGES

Meta Knight
-----------
Rapid Jab Loop
    all hitboxes
        divided into 2 for better coverage (positions adjusted)
        damage 1.0 -> 1.2
        kbg 40 -> 30
        size 5.5 -> 5.8/6.8 pairs
        SDI 1.0 -> 0.6
Rapid Jab End
    hitbox
        size 5.7 -> 8.0
        y 5.5 -> 7.0
        x 18.0 -> 20.0
Ftilt3
    all hitboxes
        damage 3 -> 4
        angle 65 -> 361
        kbg 110 -> 107

Little Mac
----------
NO CHANGES

Fox
---
NO CHANGES

Falco
-----
Unknown parameters set to 63 and 15 on many of his hitboxes
Jab1
    hitbox 0 and 2 IDs swapped
    all hitboxes
        bkb 30 -> 35
    hitbox 0 (new)
        angle 80 -> 68
        size 2.0 -> 2.5
        z 0.0 -> -0.5
    hitbox 1
        angle 80 -> 77
        size 3.0 -> 3.2
Jab2
    hitbox 2
        angle 50 -> 45
        size 2.0 -> 5.0
        z 0.0 -> -0.5
    transition to jab3
        frame 10 -> 9
Rapid Jab Loop
    hitbox 0
        size 2.0 -> 2.7
    hitbox 1
        size 3.0 -> 3.2
Usmash
    ID and GID tweaks to hitboxes
    final hitboxes last frames 13-20 -> 12-21
Nair
    basically a different move; same timings, but all 16 of its hitboxes have been altered
        generally wkb increased and most angles set to 367 and sizes significantly increases
Fair
    animation speed 1.33x for frames 0-37 (9 frames faster total? hits 2 frames faster?)
    looping hitboxes
        refresh time 6 -> 4 (total looping hits 3 -> 5, or 7 -> 9 damage total)
Fair Landing
    hitbox
        damage 5 -> 3
        bkb 30 -> 50
Uair
    animation speed 1.5x for frames 0-8 (2 frames faster?)
    hitboxes appear on frame 10 -> 8 (4 frames faster total)
    all hitboxes
        damage 11 -> 10
        angle 68/68/80 -> 65/75/85
        kbg 100/100/20 -> 90/90/90
        bkb 27/27/30 -> 35/35/35
    hitbox 0
        size 4.8 -> 5.0
Dair
    initial hitbox bifurcated; hits grounded targets at angle 80
    sourspot replaces on frame 21 -> 20 (sweetspot duration 4 -> 5)
    sourspot hitbox
        size 5.0 -> 5.3

Pikachu
-------
NO CHANGES

Charizard
---------
Jab1
    hitbox 0
        wkb 15 -> 26
    hitbox 1 + 2
        wkb 10 -> 22
    transition to jab2
        frame 10 -> 9
Jab2
    transition to jab3
        frame 10 -> 9
Jab3
    all hitboxes
        kbg 110 -> 130
Fair
    hitbox 0
        size 4.3 -> 4.6
        x 7.0 -> 7.5
    delayed hitbox 0
        kbg 98 -> 97
        size 4.5 -> 4.8
        z 7.0 -> 7.5
    hitboxes removed on frame 12-> 13 (total duration 4 -> 5)
Uthrow
    throwbox 0 (launching component of throw)
        angle 60 -> 70
        kbg 160 -> 220
Dthrow
    throwbox 0 (launching component of throw)
        angle 361 -> 70
        kbg 300 -> 130
        bkb 40 -> 70

Lucario
-------
Jab1
    hitbox 0
        angle 60 -> 80
        kbg 30 -> 10
        bkb 45 -> 33
    hitbox 1
        kgb 30 -> 10
        bkb 45 -> 33
    delayed hitbox 0
        angle 90 -> 80
        kbg 30 -> 10
        bkb 50 -> 32
Jab2
    hitbox 0
        angle 72 -> 60
        kbg 30 -> 20
        bkb 50 -> 38
    hitbox 1
        kgb 30 -> 20
        bkb 50 -> 32
    hitbox 2
        kgb 30 -> 20

Jigglypuff
----------
NO CHANGES

Greninja
--------
Ftilt (all)
    all hitboxes
        damage 6.5 -> 7.3
        kbg 112 -> 110/90/70
        bkb 15 -> 20/30/40
    hitboxes 1 + 2 have z-pos adjusted
    hitbox 2 bone 3 -> 5
    animation speed 1.33x from frame 13-38 (7 frames faster?)

Duck Hunt
---------
NO CHANGES

R.O.B.
------
NO CHANGES

Ness
----
NO CHANGES

Captain Falcon
--------------
F-smash (up)
    all hitboxes
        KBG 94 -> 95
F-smash (straight)
    all hitboxes
        KBG 94 -> 95
F-smash (down)
    all hitboxes
        KBG 84 -> 85
Uair
    initial hitbox 0
        damage 13 -> 11
        bkg 10 -> 16
    initial hitbox 1
        damage 12 -> 10
        bkg 10 -> 16
    late hitbox 0
        damage 12 -> 10
        bkg 8 -> 10
    late hitbox 1
        damage 10 -> 9
        bkg 8 -> 10

Villager
--------
Weird FacingRestriction Flag removed from Bair Projectile Hitboxes
Fthrow
    throwbox 0 (launching component of throw)
        bkb 100 -> 102
Bthrow
    throwbox 0 (launching component of throw)
        bkb 15 -> 18
Fthrow
    throwbox 0 (launching component of throw)
        damage 4.5 -> 6.0
        kbg 105 -> 80

Olimar
------
NO CHANGES

Wii Fit Trainer
---------------
NO CHANGES

Dr. Mario
---------
NO CHANGES

Dark Pit
--------
NO CHANGES

Lucina
------
Jab1
    all hitboxes
        damage 4.75 -> 3.325
        angle 361 -> 78/65/90
        kbg 50 -> 30
        bkb 20 -> 55
        hitlag 1.0 -> 0.7
    transition to jab2
        frame 20 -> 18
Jab2
    all hitboxes
        angle 361 -> 45
        kbg 60 -> 75
        bkb 25 -> 62
        hitlag 1.0 -> 0.7
        unknown param 0 -> 1
Ftilt
    all hitboxes
        damage 9.975 -> 10.925
Utilt
    initial hitboxes
        angle 361 -> 100 (already 100 on hitboxes 0,3)
        bkb 50 -> 65
    delayed hitboxes
        angle 361 -> 100 (already 100 on hitboxes 0,3)
        bkb 40 -> 52
Dolphin Slash
    initial hitboxes
        kbg 68 -> 74
        hitlag 0.5 -> 0.7
Crescent Slash
    initial hitboxes
        hitlag 0.5 -> 0.7

Shulk
-----
NO CHANGES

Pac-Man
-------
NO CHANGES

Mega Man
--------
NO CHANGES

Sonic
-----
Usmash
    final hitbox
        kbg 177 -> 165

Mewtwo
------
UNKNOWN

Lucas
-----
[NEW]

Roy
---
[NEW]

Ryu
---
[NEW]

Mii Brawler
-----------
Onslaught Startup (ground and aerial)
    all windboxes
        unknown params changed
    windbox 1
        angle 50 -> 361
        kbg 100 -> 0
        wkb 80 -> 0
        element Hit -> Push

Mii Swordfighter
----------------
Unknown parameters set to 63 and 15 on many of his hitboxes
Jab1
    animation speed 1.25x for frames 0-5 (1 frame faster)
    hitboxes appear on frame 7 -> 6 (2 frames faster total)
    hitbox 2 split into 2
    all hitboxes
        angle 85/361/361 -> 85/50/45/45
        kbg 37 -> 20
        bkb 16 -> 32
    transition to jab2
        frame 10 -> 9
Jab2
    hitboxes 0 and 1 IDs swapped
    hitbox 1
        swapped angle 100 -> 96
    hitbox 2 split into 2
    transition to jab3
        frame 10 -> 9
Jab3
    hitboxes 0 and 1 IDs swapped
    hitbox 2 split into 2
Dash Attack
    all hitboxes
        size 3.0/2.2 -> 4.0/3.0
Ftilt
    hitbox 1 split into 2
Nair
    animation speed 1.18x for frames 0-10 (1 frame faster?)
    hitboxes appear on frame 12 -> 11 (2 frames faster total)
Fair
    hitbox 2 (initial and middle)
        size 2.4 -> 3.5
    hitbox 2 (final)
        size 3.2 -> 3.5
Bair
    all hitboxes
        damage 12 -> 14
Dair Landing
    hitbox
        x 9.0 -> 10.5
Slash Launcher
    windbox 0
        x 5.0 -> 6.0

Mii Gunner
----------
NO CHANGES

Sweet jesus, now I know what you meant by "The Kongs' fighter files are hard."

Well, this was one heck of a mess, but we went thru it. Good work.
 
Last edited:

Nidtendofreak

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 10, 2006
Messages
7,265
Location
Belleville, Ontario
NNID
TheNiddo
3DS FC
3668-7651-8940
Wow, Ike really did get a Utilt duration increase from 5 frames to 8? Awesome.

Thanks for the load of work Thinkaman.

EDIT: No change to Nair or Dair's landing lag? That's strange. We have proof of that being the case. Maybe it happened last patch and nobody noticed it? The Dair one at least makes sense, we almost never use that move.

Right, no landing lag. nvm.
 
Last edited:

Zapp Branniglenn

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 13, 2014
Messages
1,707
Location
Santa Ana, CA
Been working on the endlag changes of more characters. Among the Zelda cast, Ganondorf, Shiek, and Toon Link have no differences to the speed of moves. It's a shame that TL's grab was not buffed the same way Link's was. Can confirm all our previous findings for Link and Zelda, but I also found that Link's Fthrow has a quicker IASA frame.

Mr. Game & Watch's Bair has reduced landing lag. Nothing else on him.
 

Zorai

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 6, 2008
Messages
329
Location
NYC
NNID
x_Zorai
Ike and Falco are some of the most buffed characters in any patch ever. I think they're both relevant now.
 

Puppyfaic

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 29, 2014
Messages
297
NNID
Puppyluvv
Ouch. Of all the things to get nerfed, I wasn't expecting Rosalina's jab. That's really gonna hurt.
 

Flamecircle

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 19, 2008
Messages
154
Wait.... what happened to Link's Jab 1?

Anyway, the unknown Param in link's grab is probably the length of the grab box.
 
Last edited:

PandaEffect

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 1, 2014
Messages
63
Location
Montreal, Canada
Ouch. Of all the things to get nerfed, I wasn't expecting Rosalina's jab. That's really gonna hurt.
Pretty sure that was one of those release-diddy-upair tier nerfs people wanted to see, it honestly still looks pretty strong but I'm not sure how those values affect it entirely.
 

Lavani

Indigo Destiny
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
Messages
7,256
Yeah, it was definitely a warranted nerf. The jab still kills anyway, just later than it used to.

I'm just surprised it wasn't noticed sooner, thought for sure we got away with it intact since nobody mentioned anything about it.
 
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