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Meta Rosalina Match-Up Analysis R2 - Wario

Mario & Sonic Guy

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Rosalina Match-Up Analysis R2 - Wario


Welcome to the Rosalina vs. Wario match-up analysis thread. This thread will be used to analyze Rosalina's match-up against Wario. For all the rules on the round 2 match-up discussions, please refer to the directory thread.

Last Updated: 6/28/2015
Special Moves Allowed| | :4wario::4wario2:
Default only | :rosalina: | ±0
Default + Custom | :rosalina: | ±0
Default only
DrCoeloCephalo: +1
Ingoro: +1
NeonSpeed315: +1
Spinosaurus: -1
TheReflexWonder: -2 - -1
Zionaze: -1

Default + Custom
DrCoeloCephalo: +2
TheReflexWonder: -2
Zionaze: +1
 

DrCoeloCephalo

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This is all I really have to go on about this matchup because I never face any legitimate Rosalina & Luma players. Wario has to put more effort into getting in on Rosalina and pressuring her because of that meat shield known as Luma.

Also, I don't know much about Rosalina's recovery options. That UpB seems like you can't act out of it, so I'd imagine that it's easy for Waft-Bike extended hitbox edgeguarding since Rosalina can't really recover from very high very safely.

@ icraq icraq @ Ingoro Ingoro Notice how Reflex weaves in and out in the air and recovers high so that Rosila can't reach him.

 
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DavemanCozy

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Quick write up:

Rosalina outranges Wario so so badly it's not even funny, Wario has a very hard time going in. Rosa is also probably the only character that can sort of disrespect the Bite when she has Luma near her to get Wario away from her. Wario is also quite heavy, meaning U-air juggles really screw him and KO him off the top.

However, with Luma being near and Rosa being so light, this also means that the Waft is a constant threat to Rosalina: Luma's existence means Wario can extend the hitbox and make it linger just by farting on Luma, without the need of using his bike. Rosalina's recovery also having no hitbox means Wario can Waft her when she's recovering. And speaking of bike, Wario ditching it along the ground means it will hit Luma if Rosa chooses to just shield.
 
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Spinosaurus

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Wario doesn't need to approach Rosa though. She can't threaten Wario in neutral, and the threat of the Waft means she's forced to approach him, and she has an incredibly hard time doing that. Considering how vulnerable she is to Waft and Wario's edgeguarding and how she has no options against a campy Wario I'm pretty confident this is in Wario's favour. I used to think this in Rosa's favour but the more I embrace passive Wario the more I realize it's the other way around.

I'd write more but I'm on phone. Reflex did talk about this matchup in the competitive thread and he believes Wario wins too, and he has experience in this matchup. I'll dig up his posts if you want.

EDIT: Actually each bite has a hitbox so Luma gets hurt each time.
 
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NeonSpeed315

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I face somewhat decent Rosa's so I know what I'm saying when I say this is in Rosa's favor, but just barely (nothing new for :4wario: amirite)

Rosa can camp but Wario can counter camp (rosa is better at camping sadly).

Once either gets the lead they can DIPDIP and run all day, never getting caught. Neither like to appoach.

What makes this in :rosalina:'s favor is that she can pester from super far, something Wario can't do efficiciently (side b the jumping is only SO good).

Keeping this from ONE SIDED is Waft's comeback potential, and havin one of, if not THE only safe command grab on Rosaluma. Not to mention these 2 are on opposit sides of the weight spectrum.
 

Spinosaurus

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What makes this in :rosalina:'s favor is that she can pester from super far, something Wario can't do efficiciently (side b the jumping is only SO good).
Curious, what can she to do in neutral? Sending Luma is a bad idea because it leaves Rosa vulnerable and even then Wario has no problem avoiding Luma. Neither character can really approach the other (Wario could send out deployed bikes to pester Luma), but the burden of wanting to approach lies on Rosa because she does NOT want Wario to get a free waft charge.

I agree that whoever has the lead gets a big advantage in this matchup considering they both excel at passive play and countering approaches, but Rosa absolutely can't threaten Wario in neutral, Wario on the other hand can by doing nothing.

Wario should never, ever approach. He has the superior neutral in this matchup. Camp for waft and harass with deployed bikes. Wario can play his neutral really safe and gets rewarded significantly for it, while Rosa can't. Whoever makes the first mistake will get screwed, but Rosa has more room to make these mistakes compared to Wario.

My experience against Rosa isn't the best, but I played this matchup and I firmly believe it's in Wario's favour. +1 :4wario:for default.
Can't speak for customs but both gain something substantial in this matchup I imagine. (Luma Wrap and Falco Star Bits for Rosa, and Speeding Bike and Rose Waft for Wario)
 

NeonSpeed315

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Curious, what can she to do in neutral? Sending Luma is a bad idea because it leaves Rosa vulnerable and even then Wario has no problem avoiding Luma. Neither character can really approach the other (Wario could send out deployed bikes to pester Luma), but the burden of wanting to approach lies on Rosa because she does NOT want Wario to get a free waft charge.

I agree that whoever has the lead gets a big advantage in this matchup considering they both excel at passive play and countering approaches, but Rosa absolutely can't threaten Wario in neutral, Wario on the other hand can by doing nothing.

Wario should never, ever approach. He has the superior neutral in this matchup. Camp for waft and harass with deployed bikes. Wario can play his neutral really safe and gets rewarded significantly for it, while Rosa can't. Whoever makes the first mistake will get screwed, but Rosa has more room to make these mistakes compared to Wario.

My experience against Rosa isn't the best, but I played this matchup and I firmly believe it's in Wario's favour. +1 :4wario:for default.
Can't speak for customs but both gain something substantial in this matchup I imagine. (Luma Wrap and Falco Star Bits for Rosa, and Speeding Bike and Rose Waft for Wario)
You rise fair points, but you're forgetting that Rosa's down b can steal warios bike. Without that, his neutral is about 15% worse. Something Rosa can easily take advantage of.

I've always been told Rosa Sheik Luigi and Pika have the best neutral, so I assumed Wario had an inferior neutral. I believe that if a Wario can maneuver around Luma, then Wario can take advantage of neutral. Without maneuverability, neutral is in the hands of Rosa cuz shield damage + far away peskering is no good.


I guess in the end, their neutral can go hand in hand. The main thing keeping this ever so slightly in Rosa's favor is the fact that Wario banks on punishing. Rosa doesn't have super laggy moves, so it all comes down to mindgames and footsies.
 

Zionaze

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You rise fair points, but you're forgetting that Rosa's down b can steal warios bike. Without that, his neutral is about 15% worse. Something Rosa can easily take advantage of.

I've always been told Rosa Sheik Luigi and Pika have the best neutral, so I assumed Wario had an inferior neutral. I believe that if a Wario can maneuver around Luma, then Wario can take advantage of neutral. Without maneuverability, neutral is in the hands of Rosa cuz shield damage + far away peskering is no good.


I guess in the end, their neutral can go hand in hand. The main thing keeping this ever so slightly in Rosa's favor is the fact that Wario banks on punishing. Rosa doesn't have super laggy moves, so it all comes down to mindgames and footsies.
Rosa's Down-B can't stop the bike unless it stops moving, and most of the time it should travel far enough to fall off stage.
 

NeonSpeed315

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Who the bleep tell you that?
People on SmashLadder and ZeRo said so in a video.

Rosa's Down-B can't stop the bike unless it stops moving, and most of the time it should travel far enough to fall off stage.
Ok, my bad. In that case, I really don't know whose favor this is in once heavily analyzed. Probably just barely +1 for Rosa cuz she doesn't have enough laggy moves for Wario to exploit.
 

Ingoro

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Curious, what can she to do in neutral? Sending Luma is a bad idea because it leaves Rosa vulnerable and even then Wario has no problem avoiding Luma. Neither character can really approach the other (Wario could send out deployed bikes to pester Luma), but the burden of wanting to approach lies on Rosa because she does NOT want Wario to get a free waft charge.

I agree that whoever has the lead gets a big advantage in this matchup considering they both excel at passive play and countering approaches, but Rosa absolutely can't threaten Wario in neutral, Wario on the other hand can by doing nothing.

Wario should never, ever approach. He has the superior neutral in this matchup. Camp for waft and harass with deployed bikes. Wario can play his neutral really safe and gets rewarded significantly for it, while Rosa can't. Whoever makes the first mistake will get screwed, but Rosa has more room to make these mistakes compared to Wario.

My experience against Rosa isn't the best, but I played this matchup and I firmly believe it's in Wario's favour. +1 :4wario:for default.
Can't speak for customs but both gain something substantial in this matchup I imagine. (Luma Wrap and Falco Star Bits for Rosa, and Speeding Bike and Rose Waft for Wario)

So you say you don't have enough experience in the matchup, however before the sentence ends you mentioned that you played the matchup and firmly believe it's in Wario's favour. That's very contradicting.
You keep mentioning Wario wins the neutral, to me that sound you're really uninformed of the possibilities of our character. Rosalina is amazing at mid-range combat and Wario doesn't have the tools to get in, she wins neutral.
However the waft, especially with Luma making the hitbox longer is a real threat and that combined with her off stage weak points makes this mu slightly in Rosalina's favor. It's a +1 for Rosalina in default and I think in customs too but I'll keep that vote off as I'm totally unaware of Wario's customs.
 
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Spinosaurus

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So you say you don't have enough experience in the matchup, however before the sentence ends you mentioned that you played the matchup and firmly believe it's in Wario's favour. That's very contradicting.
You keep mentioning Wario wins the neutral, to me that sound you're really uninformed of the possibilities of our character. Rosalina is amazing at mid-range combat and Wario doesn't have the tools to get in, she wins neutral.
However the waft, especially with Luma making the hitbox longer is a real threat and that combined with her off stage weak points makes this mu slightly in Rosalina's favor. It's a +1 for Rosalina in default and I think in customs too but I'll keep that vote off as I'm totally unaware of Wario's customs.
I said my experience isn't the best, but I played it...so? How is that contradicting? I didn't say I didn't have enough experience. And I have more reasons to believe that it's in Wario's favor (other top Warios saying they win + Dabuz being scared of Abadango's Wario. Tweek also said he'll start using Wario for this matchup for a reason.)

Wario has no reasons to fight or get in on Rosalina mid range, a Wario that knows the match will always run away (and Rosa can't catch him, Wario's mobility is far superior and can just double jump bike the way out easily) unless he finds a good opportunity. Wario has a really safe neutral and with Rosalina's inferior mobility and frame data realistically what can she do? The only thing she has over him is range, but Wario likes running away anyway.
 
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Ingoro

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I said my experience isn't the best, but I played it...so? How is that contradicting? I didn't say I didn't have enough experience. And I have more reasons to believe that it's in Wario's favor (other top Warios saying they win + Dabuz being scared of Abadango's Wario. Tweek also said he'll start using Wario for this matchup for a reason.)

Wario has no reasons to fight or get in on Rosalina mid range, a Wario that knows the match will always run away (and Rosa can't catch him, Wario's mobility is far superior and can just double jump bike the way out easily) unless he finds a good opportunity. Wario has a really safe neutral and with Rosalina's inferior mobility and frame data realistically what can she do? The only thing she has over him is range, but Wario likes running away anyway.
You claim that he just 'runs away' in the matchup by that implying that you can win a matchup solely based on running away and avoiding combat, that however is never the case, Wario doesn't even have a good projectile to camp with. If he double jumps and bikes, all that he has left against Rosalina's superb Uair is dair and air dodge? I'm afraid I don't know all options but I'm pretty sure it's limited. She has good ground speed and an even better air speed, she will be able to get under a Wario in the air and poke with Uairs. On the ground she can wait him up and catch him with her Usmash which is fairly strong. He might have a safe neutral but that doesn't mean a neutral where he doesn't get hit, the only part and which Rosalina really struggles is her air speed because she's very floaty. Inferior frame data?

Edit: I apologize for getting very fierce earlier, I get very heated up in discussions.
 
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Ingoro

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What the?

Wario is ranked about 4th in airspeed while Rosalina is about 24th (Not checking on the airspeed chart because that's the rough comparison).
Okay, it's not that good as I remember. It's still not bad however, we're not talking Luigi bad air speed, it's good enough to chase some trajectory in the air.
 
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Mario & Sonic Guy

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What the?

Wario is ranked about 4th in airspeed while Rosalina is about 24th (Not checking on the airspeed chart because that's the rough comparison).
Yeah, Wario can run away from Rosalina by utilizing his high aerial mobility. This is what Spinosaurus Spinosaurus means when he said that Rosalina can't catch Wario, because he can just jump all over the place, while Rosalina is stuck with utilizing her running speed to try to pursue Wario.

This alone can make the match-up a tricky one in a default only setting. When custom specials are involved, however, then Rosalina can use moves like Luma Warp and Shooting Star Bit to give Wario some additional pressure, while Wario doesn't have any projectile attacks at all, and lacks a reflector.
 

TriTails

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Wario has Bike he can jump out of. It can ram to Rosalina AND hit Luma. Meanwhile, Wario is over there laughing his mouth off. He can actually threaten Rosalina from a distance (Though. I imagine it'll be pretty hard to angle the Bike).

If for some wrong reasons he decided to ride his Bike, however, never miss the chance to hit him out of it. A hit and he falls. D-air or B-air, whatever. Better yet, you can just out-right destroy the Bike and cause self-destruct damage to him. Though, it is tricky to time your smash attacks, especially since he can control the speed of his Bike.
 

icraq

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anyone have any competitive videos of a wario camping a rosalina? i am highly doubtful of this.
 
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Nadeko Sengoku

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I said my experience isn't the best, but I played it...so? How is that contradicting? I didn't say I didn't have enough experience. And I have more reasons to believe that it's in Wario's favor (other top Warios saying they win + Dabuz being scared of Abadango's Wario. Tweek also said he'll start using Wario for this matchup for a reason.)

Wario has no reasons to fight or get in on Rosalina mid range, a Wario that knows the match will always run away (and Rosa can't catch him, Wario's mobility is far superior and can just double jump bike the way out easily) unless he finds a good opportunity. Wario has a really safe neutral and with Rosalina's inferior mobility and frame data realistically what can she do? The only thing she has over him is range, but Wario likes running away anyway.
Just putting this out there, all of Rosalina's galaxy moves are transcendent, furthermore, Rosalina CAN catch Wario with the help of Luma shot, and if he chooses to jump around he may find himself above Luma which is very dangerous.
 

DrCoeloCephalo

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Just putting this out there, all of Rosalina's galaxy moves are transcendent, furthermore, Rosalina CAN catch Wario with the help of Luma shot, and if he chooses to jump around he may find himself above Luma which is very dangerous.
Luma Shot just separates the meat shield from the lightweight target, which is something you don't really want. Also, Luma Shot is only going to cover the ground, where Wario can just Bike his way across if not just jump over.
 

Nadeko Sengoku

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Luma Shot just separates the meat shield from the lightweight target, which is something you don't really want. Also, Luma Shot is only going to cover the ground, where Wario can just Bike his way across if not just jump over.
I like to use Luma shot in the air to catch people who are trying to land away from me and it's quite fast and responsive, the only time sending Luma out is bad is vs characters like Mega man and Duck Hunt where they can kill Luma from a safe distance due to the many projectiles they have. If Luma has hitboxes out its hard to fight or kill it since most moves either clank with it or get beaten out by Luma because of it's unorthodox priority. The bike is good but its not unbeatable please keep this in mind, it's hard to really say because there are VERY few Rosalina and Luma mains that send out Luma and even less that use it appropriately.
 

Zionaze

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nothings unbeatable really :V I still think Wario has a slight edge over Rosa in a default match since he can weave in and out with some rising Fairs/Nairs. Wario has no need for going in and Luma acts as a portable bike floating around Rosa so the waft is even deadlier. Rosa is fairly light while Wario is fairly heavy.
 

Nadeko Sengoku

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nothings unbeatable really :V I still think Wario has a slight edge over Rosa in a default match since he can weave in and out with some rising Fairs/Nairs. Wario has no need for going in and Luma acts as a portable bike floating around Rosa so the waft is even deadlier. Rosa is fairly light while Wario is fairly heavy.
If one thing is certain is that Luma does not know the difference between a light enemy and a heavy one, which IS why everyone hates Rosalina and Luma ;)
 

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luma shot is really the last thing you want to do against a wario :V
You can probably say this for just about anyone, especially the fighters who have reflectors. Luma Shot may have some use as an edge-guarding tool though.

Of course, if you're allowed to use the custom specials, Luma Warp tends to work better, since it's quick and can't be reflected, giving you more options for positioning the Luma where you want.
 

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You can probably say this for just about anyone, especially the fighters who have reflectors. Luma Shot may have some use as an edge-guarding tool though.

Of course, if you're allowed to use the custom specials, Luma Warp tends to work better, since it's quick and can't be reflected, giving you more options for positioning the Luma where you want.
Can Luma Shot or Luma Warp catch Wario when he recovers high with the bike? Biking back onstage makes edgeguarding Wario impossible.
 

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Can Luma Shot or Luma Warp catch Wario when he recovers high with the bike? Biking back onstage makes edgeguarding Wario impossible.
Considering how mobile he is in the air, Wario is a tricky fellow to edge-guard. I don't really have an answer for your question.
 

TheReflexWonder

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This is an incredibly boring matchup. Neither character is well-equipped to approach the other reliably in neutral, so they end up doing a lot of standing around. However, this is beneficial for Wario, since the Waft is very easy to camp for in this matchup, and Rosalina is relatively easy to land it against (mostly offstage, but a well-timed airdodge or U-Air will lead into it, too), so the longer she doesn't make something happen, the better chance Wario has to get low-percent KOs. Wario's Forward-B can be ditched early to stay safe, and if Rosalina doesn't jump, it hits Luma for a little bit of damage; while it's on the ground like this, Rosalina's Down-B will not affect it, so it's a constant annoyance, and it also continues to make it easier for Wario to charge Waft.

Rosalina being so tall is a significant burden in this matchup. Wario's falling U-Air is safe on block and combos into itself and other options (such as Waft) until ~75% (and that's assuming it's not stale). Wario's shorthop immediate N-Air cannot be shieldgrabbed until after avoiding the second hit, which allows Wario to play the 50/50 of whether he will move forward or backward, and the sourspot's high base knockback will send Luma upward at any percent, preventing Rosalina from doing much if she guesses correctly and gets a grab. Lingering hitboxes in N-Air and rising D-Air are relatively safe to throw out in many close-quarters situations and give Wario solid advantageous situations if they hit; N-Air puts Rosalina in a juggle state and D-Air sends Rosalina away/potentially offstage.

When you're put offstage, you live in fear of the Waft, and Wario has reliable tools to make sure Rosalina doesn't escape unscathed. F-Air ends quickly enough so that if you try to hit Rosalina with the end of the sourspot and she airdodges, you get a free punish with most anything offstage, and sourspot F-Air often combos into other things, like N-Air, another F-Air, and Half Waft. Bike helps Wario keep the pressure if Rosalina tries to recover up and away to avoid the situation altogether. Rosalina's aerials are large and imposing, but because the animations last so long, she generally can't risk their use in significant Wario edgeguarding for fear that he airdodges through her and punishes her hard, and Wario already has one of the most flexible recoveries in the game. This logic also makes dealing with juggles against Wario hard, because Wario's U-Air is significantly disjointed and he outspeeds you in general air movement, but N-Air used in a similar position will often trade with attacks, and the sourspot puts opponents right back up, resetting the situation, allowing Wario to hedge his bets, "eat" double jumps, and things like that.

Customs definitely help Wario more than they do Rosalina in this matchup. Luma Warp isn't a significant threat because Wario has very little to fear in terms of her approaching to begin with, and he can focus on avoiding that spot more easily than most characters. Rose Waft trades raw KO potential for free, significant damage whenever Rosalina is in a disadvantaged position or sticks out a move that doesn't hit Wario (the hitbox is truly, truly, truly outrageous), and it takes significantly less time to charge, so it does a lot to help Wario win the battle of attrition. Regular Bike stops the long-range Star Bit, iirc, (and maybe the same for Fast Bike, which makes high recoveries get punished with ease), and since jumping off the Bike is what Wario should be doing in neutral anyway, Star Bits don't make it much harder for Wario.

Wario outdamages Rosalina in most situations, gets a lot more out of the statemate that Rosalina usually wants to manage, has reliable KO setups at a wide variety of percents, is a nightmare for Rosalina offstage, and has an airdodge that makes Rosalina fear pressing buttons. You have your work cut out for you if you want to convince me that it's any better than a slight disadvantage for Rosalina (which is a more hopeful description than I personally think the matchup is, and it's likely to get worse over time as people maximize the options I mentioned, so...).

I guess with your system, I'm thinking -1.5 for Rosalina without Customs and -2 or worse with Customs. She has a hard time.
 
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Magik0722

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I think reflex has the right idea here.
I would like to point out that shorthop nair wont be safe if it hits luma as it will cause that hitfreeze stuff to happen. Also wario has a really easy time KO'ing luma. The second hit of nair will put even a full health luma into that state where it starting flying in the air then slowly back into the ground, dunno what you rosalina players call that around here. Dash attack does the same and can send it offstage. Upair chains on luma also threaten luma very quickly. Whenever wario is throwing the bike at you from across the stage do not shield it but jump over it. Since luma cant shield the bike will hit her and send her into that state as well, often leading to it being KO'd very easily if near the edge. Wario's backthrow will also cause a luma KO if dont near the edge. Rose waft is also very significant in this matchup, the wario player can get alot of wafts in this campy matchup, everytime you go for airdodge reads with upair you live in threat of being hit by rose wafts gigantic hitbox. If wario airdodges the upair he will get a guaranteed upair, which at high percents means death, but I guess thats the 50/50 on reading the airdodge.
Anyway heres a video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtBUO-l86hE
 
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Nadeko Sengoku

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I think reflex has the right idea here.
I would like to point out that shorthop nair wont be safe if it hits luma as it will cause that hitfreeze stuff to happen. Also wario has a really easy time KO'ing luma. The second hit of nair will put even a full health luma into that state where it starting flying in the air then slowly back into the ground, dunno what you rosalina players call that around here. Dash attack does the same and can send it offstage. Upair chains on luma also threaten luma very quickly. Whenever wario is throwing the bike at you from across the stage do not shield it but jump over it. Since luma cant shield the bike will hit her and send her into that state as well, often leading to it being KO'd very easily if near the edge. Wario's backthrow will also cause a luma KO if dont near the edge. Rose waft is also very significant in this matchup, the wario player can get alot of wafts in this campy matchup, everytime you go for airdodge reads with upair you live in threat of being hit by rose wafts gigantic hitbox. If wario airdodges the upair he will get a guaranteed upair, which at high percents means death, but I guess thats the 50/50 on reading the airdodge.
Anyway heres a video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtBUO-l86hE
That set was really close 0.0
 
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