3ds confirmed to holding the wii u back

[soviet prince]

I was on board with the 3ds not holding the wii u back before the direct but now I am convinced it did.

Evidence:

1) transformation being separated, this was not to flesh out the characters it was done to ease the power on the 3ds.

2) pokemon trainer being cut: one of the biggest unique factors brawl had and the best way to rep the franchise is now gone.

3) olimer having only 3 pikimin this was even confirmed to make them be seen better on the 3ds. Also it was not mentioned but they were obv cut down on due to the 3ds not being able to hold that much.

what we will miss:

1) no more transformations, no more unique gimmicks, no more pokemon trainer, ect. everthing has a limit now which would not have been a problem if it was just the wii u. They should have just cut olimer pikimin to 3 on the 3ds and left 6 for the wii u, moveset should not have to match 100 percent heck it give more reason to buy both if they were different.

2)the roster should be different so you can include characters like the pokemon trainer. A lot of neat things could have been done for characters for the wii u but with the 3ds you have a limit to things.

in conclusion I don't think the 3ds game was a bad idea, but the fact it has to have the same roster/movesets is absurd. If he wanted the same characters then the movesets need to be different and find something else to do with customization because this is to much a cost that has to be payed .

 

[Tree Gelbman]

no more unique gimmicks.

Rosie and her Luma say hello. Little Mac's meter says hello.

 

[DaDavid]

Not to be mean, but I'll take the stated reasons that make sense over the assumptions of anybody.

Transformation were seldom, if ever, seriously used and PT in particular was frowned upon by a majority of people I know. Olimar has been streamlined for the better, so even IF that was because of the 3DS, I say thank god if the alternative was that those changes were not implemented.

 

[Xermo]

...So?

 

[Xigger]

Technical details aside, I don't mind these changes at all. Each of the gimmicks had their fair share of problems in Brawl, mostly transformation loading times and Pokemon stamina.

Not to mention Pokemon Trainer somewhat overshadowed the Pokemon themselves in Brawl.

 

[Munky33]

Maybe, maybe not. I am just glad those characters are back and reworked with new moves. Here's hoping we see Squirtle and Ivysaur soon as well.

 

[Deleted member]

1. Transformations were seldom used mid-battle anyway (or in the case of Samus/Zamus, pretty much never) because people either played as one or the other, so I doubt it really matters in the long run since they were pretty much pointless. I think it was for the best that transformation characters were split up.

2. Pokemon Trainer was a nice idea, but horrid in execution (the stamina mechanic being the biggest offender), and suffered the same dilemma as the other transformation characters. Good riddance.

3. Again, the 3 Pikmin could ALSO BE FOR BALANCE REASONS. Olimar was one of the strongest characters in Brawl, he was due for some nerfs in Smash 4.

4. Rosalina and Luma would like to have a word with you, and gimmicks aren't always a good thing. Also, having the characters not match in both versions is a horrid idea, and just forces you to buy both versions.

5. Same reasons as above. Having a different roster is a big nono, and again, it forces you to buy both versions for the sake of getting the full experience.

Every time I see someone say the 3DS is holding the Wii U back, I die a little inside, and this is coming from someone who has a preference for the Wii U version.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Did you even watch the direct!?
Olimar having only three Pikmin was to make it easier to see which ones you have and what order they are in? It was also to fix some shortcomings and add some weaknesses.

You can't prove Samus not transforming after her FS is due to the 3DS. It could just as well be an acknowledgemnt to the fans because literally the biggest complaint about ZSS and Samus was being forced to switch after their FS.

 

[Superyoshiom]

As much as I love Pokemon Trainer and hate to see him go, but the idea of playing a Charizard with no stamina is too good to pass up. He deserves to be stronger.

 

[mimgrim]

Olimar has been streamlined for the better

As someone who mains Olimar in Brawl. I strongly disagree.

Anyway OP. Get over the butthurt you are feeling pl0x. This is like the 3rd topic I've seen you make that is basically saying the Wii-U and 3DS should have different rosters

 

[Frostwraith]

There's no way to know if the 3DS version was a factor or not, but considering how other characters (notably Pit and Bowser) have been drastically changed, I begin to think that Sakurai just wanted to revamp the veteran characters.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Transformation characters were very infamous for their long loading times in Brawl. The removal of transformations for Smash 4 was most likely done to avoid that very dilemma again. Of course, the Final Smash transformations may still need to be taken into account as well.

 

[Curious Villager]

Sounds like yet another 3DS blame game discussion...
I doubt the 3DS version was the cause of the removal of transformations, especially since transformation final smashes seem to be still intact.
From what I've seen. Transformations seemed to be a pretty unpopular concept to begin with due to the long loading times and all and the fact most players tend to solely play as only one of the forms. So it was more or less just Sakurai working on balancing the game further and thought that he had no need for the Transformations anymore.

 

[Oniric Spriter]

This is silly, just because we haven't seen yet the same or more amount of characters it doesn't mean the 3DS is holding back the WiiU.
Heck, I'd even say we have more and more variety of items and trophies this time around.

All those changes were made for balance's sake.

 

[NocturnalQuill]

Honestly, Subspace Emissary held back Brawl more than the 3DS version will ever hold back SSB4

 

[AncientArk]

I think the transformations being removed is actually better.
I'd prefer to focus on using one character than multiple.

 

[Khao]

I.... Don't really see how any of these could be related to the 3DS holding anything back.

I mean seriously, cartridges load faster than dual-layered disks, and I really don't think the couldn't have handled three extra Pikmin when they already confirmed the game to consistently run at 60fps in freaking 3D mode (when 30fps in 3D would have been perfectly acceptable.)

Sakurai probably separated the characters to buff up the roster a little bit, they have to design all those characters with as much effort as anyone else, so why not make them characters of their own while they're at it?

 

[Mysteltainn]

I was on board with the 3ds not holding the wii u back before the direct but now I am convinced it did.

Evidence:

1) transformation being separated, this was not to flesh out the characters it was done to ease the power on the 3ds.

2) pokemon trainer being cut: one of the biggest unique factors brawl had and the best way to rep the franchise is now gone.

3) olimer having only 3 pikimin this was even confirmed to make them be seen better on the 3ds. Also it was not mentioned but they were obv cut down on due to the 3ds not being able to hold that much.

what we will miss:

1) no more transformations, no more unique gimmicks, no more pokemon trainer, ect. everthing has a limit now which would not have been a problem if it was just the wii u. They should have just cut olimer pikimin to 3 on the 3ds and left 6 for the wii u, moveset should not have to match 100 percent heck it give more reason to buy both if they were different.

2)the roster should be different so you can include characters like the pokemon trainer. A lot of neat things could have been done for characters for the wii u but with the 3ds you have a limit to things.

in conclusion I don't think the 3ds game was a bad idea, but the fact it has to have the same roster/movesets is absurd. If he wanted the same characters then the movesets need to be different and find something else to do with customization because this is to much a cost that has to be payed .

1. Transformations WERE separated to flesh out characters though. Also, more often than not, people only used either Zelda or Sheik, same for Samus and ZSS. Frankly, the switching gimmick is something I say good riddance to.

2. Look, you know what? Pokemon Trainer was a cool concept; I won't lie. I loved all three Pokemon as well. However, the Stamina and Elemental Weaknesses REALLY held back all three of the Pokemon; switching out also caused a great deal of lag, and opponents who knew the gimmick made sure to stay on your ass waiting with a Smash attack when you finally had to switch. It was overall neat, but very impractical, and nobody can really argue that Charizard is the most popular and badass of the trio, although Ivysaur will be missed on my end, and Squirtle had fans as well.

3. Olimar is being toyed with, blaming the 3DS for this seems silly. Olimar is being toyed with because he now has a new recovery, and keeping this in mind, Nintendo knows how dangerous he was on land, and are just being cautious about it. Additionally, Olimar will be much less awkward to use now that his plucking sequence is fixed. It will take getting used to, but we'll adapt and I'm sure he'll be just fine. Who knows, Olimar may have 4+ Pikmin in the end; it's still too early for this kind of speculation. Listening to the Direct, I heard Sakurai say specifically that he isn't done with Olimar yet.

4. Rosalina and Luma say hi. If they're not unique, I don't know who is.

5. The game doesn't come out for a good chunk of time yet, and frankly, the newcomers we have had so far are the most unique we've ever seen. You're saying Rosalina, Villager, Mega Man, Greninja and the likes are a bore? Come on mate.

TL;DR - Sit down, relax, and enjoy the show. The game is still in development and there have been plenty of unique features and newcomers thus far.

 

[Xigger]

Transformation characters were very infamous for their long loading times in Brawl. The removal of transformations for Smash 4 was most likely done to avoid that very dilemma again. Of course, the Final Smash transformations may still need to be taken into account as well.

I don't think that will an issue. If transformations were removed and separated, chances are Final Smash Transformations were tweaked too. I'm only referring to Bowser and Wario.

Technical tidbit: The Final Smash transformations load time was not due to loading new models or animations, (animations were shared after all, models were loaded but didn't have to be) the real issue was that Warioman and Giga Bowser had their own files. They were full-fledged characters. They basically recreated Wario and Bowser twice, all to introduce a few changed effects.

With Namco Bandai's development team, rather than a new team from scratch again, I think they will be smart enough to implement them better. (Load the model pre-fight, don't make a whole new file for one transformation) As it stands, Mega Lucario seems to be a maxed-out Aura Lucario, with the same abilities, thus needing no separate files.

/Programmer

 

[Mnkymn89]

As much as I love Pokemon Trainer and hate to see him go, but the idea of playing a Charizard with no stamina is too good to pass up. He deserves to be stronger.

agreed, im interested to see what they do with him now that hes a standalone fighter. especially since hes my favoite pokemon.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Everyone said what I wanted to say. But yeah, sovietprince, those reasons to not hold back the game. It's not confirmed.

And I doubt these changes will negatively impact the community. Project M made it so the transformation characters are their own, not transformations. This was well recieved among players.

 

[MAtgSy]

If anything 3DS would've handled transformations better than Wii U: carts load data faster than discs.

 

[Shel]

I actually used both Zelda and Sheik so I did actually transform mid match. Usually only when blasted really high or right after a KO. I will miss it but I can adjust.

I also play with Samus and ZSS so transforming was never a big deal there either.

 

[Smash G]

You psychic powers amaze me. Though I do think the 3DS will hold back the game in some regards I don't think you have anything but speculation.

I don't think it's certain that the reason the transformations are out is because of the 3DS. I think the reasons they gave are valid and kind of doubt the 3DS couldn't handle transformations.

 

[PadWarrior]

This dude seriously needs patience. He's mad cause the 3DS version is coming out before the Wii U version so he blames it for holding the Wii U back.

 

[HatsuneMiku]

Honestly, Subspace Emissary held back Brawl more than the 3DS version will ever hold back SSB4

This, so much this.

 

[DaDavid]

Hell the fact that it is a staggered release suggests that the Wii U isn't being compromised to the point of being ready at the same time as the handheld version. I know there's some marketing that's probably going on there too, but either way I doubt they're just sitting on their asses without doing anything once the 3DS version drops.

 

[ImaClubYou]

You guys are writing this man off too quick.

Some points I want to make.

I actually like every change so far.

At the same time, it's very clear why our OP would think such. I agree with some of his claims.

Olimar only have 3 Pikmin. Reason? For better management. I find this a bit suspicious.

Transform characters no longer transform. Reason? Focus on one move set. Also suspicious.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

If anything 3DS would've handled transformations better than Wii U: carts load data faster than discs.

Interestingly, it took less time for Zelda to change into Sheik and back in Melee. Ironic, seeing as the GameCube came before the Wii.

 

[Jack Kieser]

What is with all the post-Direct butthurt going on with this board? Between this thread, the For Glory threads, and complaining about the release dates, you'd think that Sakurai rubbed his nuts on the camera to get the sweat more directly to you. >_>

 

[Fatmanonice]

What is with all the post-Direct butthurt going on with this board? Between this thread, the For Glory threads, and complaining about the release dates, you'd think that Sakurai rubbed his nuts on the camera to get the sweat more directly to you. >_>

This. A thousand times this. The pessimism and whining is almost as bad as it was when the final Brawl roster was revealed. OH MY GOD GUYS! MEWTWO DISCONCONFIRMED BECAUSE GRENINJA! OH MY GOD GUYS! RIDLEY'S DISCONFIRMED SO EVERYTHING IS RUINED FOREVER! OH MY GOD GUYS! WARIO'S TOTALLY NOT COMING BACK BECAUSE HE WASN'T IN THE DIRECT! I've had a hard time going into most threads these past couple of days without groaning out loud...

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

It sounds more like tech limits forced them to get creative and change things. Nothing I have seen suggests the cores of both games will be inferior to brawl. The wii u version is gorgeous and apparently has its own modes to set it apart from the 3DS version. How is that holding it back?

 

[Kevandre]

This. A thousand times this. The pessimism and whining is almost as bad as it was when the final Brawl roster was revealed. OH MY GOD GUYS! MEWTWO DISCONCONFIRMED BECAUSE GRENINJA! OH MY GOD GUYS! RIDLEY'S DISCONFIRMED SO EVERYTHING IS RUINED FOREVER! OH MY GOD GUYS! WARIO'S TOTALLY NOT COMING BACK BECAUSE HE WASN'T IN THE DIRECT! I've had a hard time going into most threads these past couple of days without groaning out loud...

Exactly. People assume Squirtle and Ivysaur are cut because Charizard is solo. You know who else is solo? Zelda. Samus. And Sheik and Zamus are still around... But separate and revealed way later.

I'm really believing now for real that they're not going anywhere until I'm told otherwise. There's more evidence showing their return than their departure.

Maybe not 100% relevant to your post but still.

 

[godogod]

1. Transformations were seldom used mid-battle anyway (or in the case of Samus/Zamus, pretty much never) because people either played as one or the other, so I doubt it really matters in the long run since they were pretty much pointless. I think it was for the best that transformation characters were split up.

2. Pokemon Trainer was a nice idea, but horrid in execution (the stamina mechanic being the biggest offender), and suffered the same dilemma as the other transformation characters. Good riddance.

3. Again, the 3 Pikmin could ALSO BE FOR BALANCE REASONS. Olimar was one of the strongest characters in Brawl, he was due for some nerfs in Smash 4.

4. Rosalina and Luma would like to have a word with you, and gimmicks aren't always a good thing. Also, having the characters not match in both versions is a horrid idea, and just forces you to buy both versions.

5. Same reasons as above. Having a different roster is a big nono, and again, it forces you to buy both versions for the sake of getting the full experience.

Every time I see someone say the 3DS is holding the Wii U back, I die a little inside, and this is coming from someone who has a preference for the Wii U version.

http://gimmegimmegames.com/2013/06/3ds-version-of-super-smash-bros-may-hold-back-the-wii-u-version/

 

[Deleted member]

http://gimmegimmegames.com/2013/06/3ds-version-of-super-smash-bros-may-hold-back-the-wii-u-version/

Way to link to an article from last year that's been debated on thoroughly, and as of now doesn't hold much water when it comes to this argument. Even with that, it's usually agreed upon that the 3DS version will not hold back the Wii U version, so try again.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

That article doesn't provide definitive proof that the 3DS will significantly hold back the wii u and sakurai's quote in the article only related to characters. And we've seen nothing to suggest the 3DS's hardware has been harmful to character design.

 

[Meelow]

I think of majority of Smash fans will agree that we are happy that the transformation feature is gone, It's nice now that Zelda and Sheik got their own Down+B, and that you don't have to be forced into ZSS or Samus after you get the Final Smash.

As for Pokemon Trainer, I don't think that would of been hard to do on the 3DS, seeing how the 3DS is a little more powerful than Wii.

 

[ChibiIceClimberz]

You guys are writing this man off too quick.

Some points I want to make.

I actually like every change so far.

At the same time, it's very clear why our OP would think such. I agree with some of his claims.

Olimar only have 3 Pikmin. Reason? For better management. I find this a bit suspicious.

Transform characters no longer transform. Reason? Focus on one move set. Also suspicious.

Somewhat this, and I think Sakurai verbally hid the technical limitations for a good amount of reason.

The points OP listed could have been the factor, but at the same time, we could assume that they were altered due to balance.

And the 3DS version holds the Wii U back regardless, whether the hindrance is big or small. I mean, you could say the same thing with last-gen and current-gen multiplats. The PS3 and Xbox 360 will always hold back the PS4 and Xbox One games no matter what. There's a reason why developers can't push the limits of the PS4 and Xbox One—it's because they're on the PS3 and Xbox 360.

 

[LancerStaff]

Isn't the Wii U version holding SSB3D back because there originally wasn't going to be a SSBU?

 

[IsmaR]

Nothing is "confirmed." The title/OP is opinions on things we might not ever know.

1. The 3DS might have been the primary version they focused on for all we know.
2. Pokemon Trainer could have been cut for a number of reasons, or might even still be in the game.
3. During the Olimar segment they specifically said they were trying to re-balance him. We would have had changes either way.

Regardless we already have a thread for opinions on the release dates for both. Please go discuss things there.

http://smashboards.com/threads/thou...getting-released-before-the-wii-u-one.352034/