3DS Community Patch Notes v1.0.4 -- Engine Changes to DI

[Thinkaman]

Olimar's Dair has been sped up. It can be SH canceled but if you slam into the ground (take to long out of your hop to use it) the ending animation where he puts his arms out and bends down will still last like it did before. I can't confirm it for everyone but I'm very used to the old version at this point and now it's much easier to use in combat.

Side by side they seem the same.

 

[Ffamran]

marth's sword does seem slightly longer, but the hitbox doesn't seem to match the blade. I don't have the ability to test side-by-side with 1.03 though.

Also Falco's DAir doesn't seem to be faster at all, unless it's a very, very tiny change. Though I'm not surprised people are saying it's faster, people were saying the same with 1.03 AND 1.02 when it was unchanged.

It looks faster to me, but it's probably like a frame faster from each patch. I remember using it and there was noticeable start up in 1.03, but in 1.04 it faster, but like about a frame faster. It's not slow as sin like Warlock Punch which has super armor to justify its speed, but it's super fast.

 

[LordFluffy]

I think Ness's dair might come out faster, but i haven't tested it and it might be wishful thinking.

Wishful thinking. Dair is the same between both patches.

 

[SonicZeroX]

Okay because there are just so many whiners for whatever reason, I just want to say that I think Nintendo has actually done a really good job with this patch.

Almost all glitches are fixed. The characters we have universally deemed to be the best have gotten nerfs, but weren't gutted. Characters that were deemed poor got buffs but not to ridiculous degrees.

Obviously it's not perfect and there are still some other things that could be touched on like Lucario's aura and Sonic's side B, but generally it seems to be a step in the right direction.

Things could be a lot worse if Nintendo were like Riot Games and are literally willing to just murder a character if they can't find a way to balance them (RIP Zac, Leblanc, Yasuo, and many many others)

 

[Thinkaman]

No. They ruined my characters.

I liked these little "glitches". They are fun and I feel like it makes my character stand out. Them fixing them like Peach's ledge turnip pulls really ruins it for me. I can't surprise my opponent's anymore with luma cause he returns to fast after the move. I'm super disappointed with this game and Sakurai. I can't believe I spent almost two years hyping myself up for this.

At least I can do special things with Peach and Olimar in Brawl, PM, and Melee. Its a shame cause I really wish Rosalina was a character in those games. I wonder cool stuff she would have had.

If your entire gameplay experience in smash revolves around smugly using tricks your opponent doesn't know about to extract an advantage over less experienced players, I think this would be a great opportunity for self reflection.

 

[Ffamran]

I wouldn't be surprised if there's less changes than people proclaim there is, the most interesting thing here is how powerful the placebo effect seems to affect people

Well, people do give out fake drugs for tests and they "work". Granted, those are voluntarily taken compared to forced patches (if you want to play online).

 

[Road Death Wheel]

I hate this patch...... This game has become not fun for me anymore. Back to Brawl and Melee I go.

well this was usefull for this thread. i hope you continue to contribute.

 

[Thinkaman]

I can confirm that shulk has less landing lag on fair. Very slight difference, but it's there.

 

[Golden Sun]

Just one thing on ? is that really the best thing you can think of Nintendo? but thank god they saved , he can now KO

 

[Crescent_Sun]

If your entire gameplay experience in smash revolves around smugly using tricks your opponent doesn't know about to extract an advantage over less experienced players, I think this would be a great opportunity for self reflection.

Nah, they seem content playing the other games just fine. I won't blame them if that's what they like, but there are other games for that. They hyped themselves up for a game that was designed and is being tweaked to be honest to its players from the beginning, and that's not what they want, and that's fine.

I feel like the best way to counter placebo effect is to go in thinking nothing changed and then notice things. And then test them 50 times side by side so you're sure and avoid "feels" and "seems" situations.

 

[Thinkaman]

I can confirm that Falco dair is the same.

 

[Dicex]

Love this update so far! Hoping for more balances in the future.

 

[Crescent_Sun]

Just one thing on ? is that really the best thing you can think of Nintendo? but thank god they saved , he can now KO

That one thing is actually kind of important. Now Lucario's returning options are lowered unless he wants to get massively punished because of that landing lag. And considering that he'll be at higher percentages when his recovery his best, then he wants to avoid punishment as much as possible or he's just straight up dead.

 

[Ffamran]

I can confirm that Falco dair is the same.

Hmm, maybe lag's why it feels so slow... Yep, lag. Oh, the unpatchable foe we all must face head on with our heads held up high as we receive our beatings from scrubbie-doos.

 

[Kuraudo]

No. They ruined my characters.

I liked these little "glitches". They are fun and I feel like it makes my character stand out. Them fixing them like Peach's ledge turnip pulls really ruins it for me. I can't surprise my opponent's from behind anymore with luma cause he returns to fast after the move and he doesn't react when rosalina first enters hitstun to any imputs I do. I'm super disappointed with this game and Sakurai. I can't believe I spent almost two years hyping myself up for this.

At least I can do special things with Peach and Olimar in Brawl, PM, and Melee. Its a shame cause I really wish Rosalina was a character in those games. I wonder what cool stuff she would have had.

...........

Well! Sonic got a buff and can't be grab-released out of spring. I'm a happy camper myself. Sorry that this game is ruined for you because of those things.

Real talk, you're overreacting.

 

[SonicZeroX]

You can still sweetspot the ledge with his upb though right?

I mean Lucario that is.

 

[lijero13ss]

Well as a TLink main (possibly ex-main), i am sad about the bomb lag cancelling being gone ((((

But, this lets me explore all his other stuff to look for buffs, which might allow me to keep him as a main

Even though TLink was killed in this patch, at least many other characters were changed which will let me explore new options, so remaining optimistic ! #freetoonlink

 

[Pale Tuna]

Need yes!

Here are two videos... kinda hard to see in the second video, but it seems that her other foot has a meteor effect? I feel that this needs more testing.. assuming it may be true. xD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAxlWwnfm8U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICcW9bTu-1Q

 

[SSBBDaisy]

If your entire gameplay experience in smash revolves around smugly using tricks your opponent doesn't know about to extract an advantage over less experienced players, I think this would be a great opportunity for self reflection.

Where did you get that from? If they don't know about it they can learn about it right then and there.I liked things like these in characters because it was something extra. Now all i can do is just pluck a laggy turnip. I can't have some skill and cancel it off the ledges anymore and look cool doing it. This is just one thing among many more things.


And btw its not my problem if they don't know about the glitches. There is nothing smug about using them. Just be smart and play around it.

 

[Terotrous]

Okay because there are just so many whiners for whatever reason, I just want to say that I think Nintendo has actually done a really good job with this patch.

Yeah, I agree. The game definitely seems more balanced than it was before, and most of the changes seem like they were probably warranted. Still would have liked to see a couple characters get a bit more, but oh well.

By the way, Yoshi is still strong. His approach has to be more thoughtful now, but his range game wasn't touched in any way and Nair mostly picks up the slack from dash attack. I think he might have even moved up compared to those around him since they were generally nerfed harder.

 

[DarkKiru]

You can still sweetspot the ledge with his upb though right?

I mean Lucario that is.

Pretty sure you can, I was able to earlier. I feel it will only be an issue for those that use extremespeed improperly.

Well as a TLink main (possibly ex-main), i am sad about the bomb lag cancelling being gone ((((

But, this lets me explore all his other stuff to look for buffs, which might allow me to keep him as a main

Even though TLink was killed in this patch, at least many other characters were changed which will let me explore new options, so remaining optimistic ! #freetoonlink

I wouldn't say Toon Link was killed, he's still a perfectly viable character.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

I can confirm that Falco dair is the same.

really. i was never able to execute it mid short hop before it would just hit the ground before the attack came out.

 

[Random4811]

If your entire gameplay experience in smash revolves around smugly using tricks your opponent doesn't know about to extract an advantage over less experienced players, I think this would be a great opportunity for self reflection.

You are just full of zingers and I love it. Your work is honorable.

 

[Smalt]

Knockback (Max Launcher Speed) on 150% Mario
Values are what I got for sweet and sour spots
Jab1 41/51
Jab2 100
F-tilt 72/79
D-tilt 108
U-tilt 121/143
F-Smash 187/208
D-Smash 106/120
U-Smash 151/154/157
N-Air 102/110
F-Air 4(First)/112(last)/115(all)
D-Air 104/117/127
U-Air 25/116
Z-Air 29/66
Charge Shot(Min/Max) 28/163
Seeker Missle 29
Super Missle 98
Bomb 36/37
Screw Attack 112/114
F-Throw 89
D-Throw 86
U-Throw 91
B-Throw 85
Ledge Attack 73
Floor Attack 88

Tested Samus on versions 1.0.1 and 1.0.4. All knockback values were exactly the same. I didn't see any damage changes either.

 

[SaltyKracka]

WAAAAAAAAAA

 

[Thinkaman]

I can confirm that Diddy's damages are unchanged.

 

[crisspy727]

Here are two videos... kinda hard to see in the second video, but it seems that her other foot has a meteor effect? I feel that this needs more testing.. assuming it may be true. xD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAxlWwnfm8U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICcW9bTu-1Q

No it's always been like that she has 3 spikes which are Dair,Side B and Fair.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F-Qy613mZs&list
Here's proof that Fair already spikes.

 

[Crescent_Sun]

The problem seems to lie in thinking that these weird techniques are the only way to look cool playing a character or even make a character viable. Keep playing and figure something else out. They're balancing the game so that any character can hold their own, they aren't trying to tell you you should be ashamed for picking X character so we're going to nerf them to the ground.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

http://i.imgur.com/5LF7aRT.png

Automated changedata is coming!
I need to fix my data dumper to properly format things for human consumption, THEN WE ARE GOOD TO GO

This screenshot illustates what I believe is this change from the OP
"- Dtilt damage increased to 8% from 7%, endlag reduced, knockback angle is more vertical"

If you look, the Damage goes from 7 to 8, the angle from 0x169 (sakurai angle) to 0x50 (80 decimal) which matches up DIRECTLY with what has been said. However, I need to work on this more, I want to be able to provide accurate changelogs for the public to sift through, so just bear with the patch for now!

http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/100To104.html
These are all of the change files between launch and 104

This is incredible, and I look forward to the fruits of your impressive work in datamining smash 4. I'm not able to do anything useful to help now, but once you finish the human readability part (you seem close based on that screenshot), I'll definitely be on the frontlines to sift though that mountain of data.

 

[DiamondDust]

Just one thing on ? is that really the best thing you can think of Nintendo? but thank god they saved , he can now KO

Can't be as bad as Zelda. I think they literally gave her one meaningless thing.

 

[The 0ne]

marth's sword does seem slightly longer, but the hitbox doesn't seem to match the blade. I don't have the ability to test side-by-side with 1.03 though.

Also Falco's DAir doesn't seem to be faster at all, unless it's a very, very tiny change. Though I'm not surprised people are saying it's faster, people were saying the same with 1.03 AND 1.02 when it was unchanged.

Well, the tipper of Ness's bat doesn't match the physical stick of wood, either. Go figure.

 

[ffdgh]

Sad to see Peach's floating ignoring stale moves gone but it's not surpringing lol.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

http://i.imgur.com/5LF7aRT.png

Automated changedata is coming!
I need to fix my data dumper to properly format things for human consumption, THEN WE ARE GOOD TO GO

This screenshot illustates what I believe is this change from the OP
"- Dtilt damage increased to 8% from 7%, endlag reduced, knockback angle is more vertical"

If you look, the Damage goes from 7 to 8, the angle from 0x169 (sakurai angle) to 0x50 (80 decimal) which matches up DIRECTLY with what has been said. However, I need to work on this more, I want to be able to provide accurate changelogs for the public to sift through, so just bear with the patch for now!

http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/100To104.html
These are all of the change files between launch and 104

You are a hero.

 

[HitokiriBattousai]

That one thing is actually kind of important. Now Lucario's returning options are lowered unless he wants to get massively punished because of that landing lag. And considering that he'll be at higher percentages when his recovery his best, then he wants to avoid punishment as much as possible or he's just straight up dead.

True now to get back on the stage it requires a bit more precision with extreme speed as if you don't want to just Up B to the ledge you can land with near pre patch level lag if you ark the up B so Lucario is sliding across the ground and it is doable from under the ledge at higher % i was doing it tonight just gotta know just how to angle it at variable % and the right place to start it from

 

[Crven]

This patch left in Mii Fighter Piston Punch Glitch, which lets him kill Jiggs at 0%. Not sure if they don't care about Mii's or this was a gross oversight.

 

[Thinkaman]

Me and AA just confirmed that WFT fair rear spite is blockable.

This patch left in Mii Fighter Piston Punch Glitch, which lets him kill Jiggs at 0%. Not sure if they don't care about Mii's or this was a gross oversight.

This was only discovered in America, and only recently. The Wii U version, and probably this patch, went gold a few weeks ago.

 

[Pale Tuna]

No it's always been like that she has 3 spikes which are Dair,Side B and Fair.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F-Qy613mZs&list
Here's proof that Fair already spikes.

I already know it spikes. But it seems to have an increased hitbox. Her back kick was what spiked before, to my understanding. It seems like her other foot is part of the hitbox now. :s

 

[Chibi-Chan]

Lol Falco nerfed with the weakening of vaccum hitboxes on multi-hit moves. FF FAir gimp was his best kill option but now you can't fast-fall during it without the enemy escaping T_T

 

[Thinkaman]

Shulk Power Vision is still unblockable.

 

[Phenomiracle]

Okay because there are just so many whiners for whatever reason, I just want to say that I think Nintendo has actually done a really good job with this patch.

Almost all glitches are fixed. The characters we have universally deemed to be the best have gotten nerfs, but weren't gutted. Characters that were deemed poor got buffs but not to ridiculous degrees.

If we're pretending Zelda isn't on the roster, I very much agree with you.