27 Common Reasons Why Your Character Won't Get In:

[PushDustIn]

I've been seeing a lot of the same arguments about why certain characters won't make it into Smash 4, as DLC. So...I decided to make a list for everyone. That way we can just reference the numbers instead of typing out the reasons again and again.

Taken from my blog:

Spoiler

Already in:
1. The character is already in the game as a playable fighter.
2. The character is already in the game as an assist trophy.
3. The character is already in the game as a stage boss.
4. The character can appear in the arena, in some other form (Final Smash, Enemy, Pokeball, etc).
Not a Special Snowflake:
5. The character would fight too similar to a different character.
6. The character has no defining / unique traits in general.
7. The character’s most likely move-set wouldn’t work in Smash.
8. The character has no, “fighting spirit”.
Too….:
9. The character is too erotic/ would need to be heavily censored.
10. The character is known to be big, compared to other fighter(s).
11. The character is known to be small, compared to other fighter(s).
12. The character doesn’t work due to technical limitations.
Unknown Issues:
13. The character is generally unknown.
14. The character is unknown in America.
15. The character is unknown in Japan.
16. The character is unknown in Europe.
Representation Issues:
17.The character has been dropped from consideration in the past.
18.The series has too many fighting characters already.
19. The series is not popular enough to warrant (additional) representation.
20. The character is not important within the game universe
21. The creator of the character won’t allow their character in Smash.
22. The character is not iconic enough.
3rd Party Issues:
23. The (third party) character has only one game.
24. The (third party) company already has one character in the game.
25. The character does not have a strong association with Nintendo.
26. The character does not have a strong association with video games.
27. It’s f***ing Goku.

Here’s some examples (Again, points are debatable):

9-Volt: 13, 19
Cooking Mama: 19?
Chrom: 4, 5, 17, 17, 18
Coo (From Kirby): 13, 14, 16, 20, 22
Goku: 26, 27 x100000000000000000 as I’ve told you idiots before I’ll block you.
Kuma (My cat): 8, 9, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 20, 22, 25, 26
Ridley: 3, 10, 17
Shovel Knight: 15, 22, 23, 25

 

[Swamp Sensei]

@ PushDustIn

Wonder Red isn't third party.

Nintendo wholly owns the IP.

 

[PushDustIn]

@ PushDustIn

Wonder Red isn't third party.

Nintendo wholly owns the IP.

Doh! I fixed it. Wonder Red doesn't have any major issues then.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Doh! I fixed it. Wonder Red doesn't have any major issues then.

By the way.

Kuma having no fighting spirit is hillarious.

 

[PushDustIn]

By the way.

Kuma having no fighting spirit is hillarious.

Here's a picture of her. That's what she does...every day, all day.

 

[Martingale]

This is a really good summation. A lot of votes I have seen have been kind of throwaway, and hopefully as submission guidance like this becomes more widespread, we can weed out the Shreks and Gokus and actually get to a point where the poll is truly representative of people's feelings, having been deeply considered.

Relevance is important-- it was only when I saw a photo summation of one poll, I realised Abraham Lincoln wasn't a joke vote. There are countless video game characters-- and while voting for underdogs is okay, if you tell someone your vote and are asked "who?" 9 times out of 10, please rethink it (Shovel Knight and Shantae spring to mind-- two names I never even heard before this poll. Granted, my game knowledge is limited, but come on, these have to be cult characters.)

Fighting spirit is coming across as a tad weird to me because many characters which seem near pacifists have made it in. Mainly, though, old Nintendo icons, and Rosalina (who I'm pretty sure wouldn't be tossing her star-children around as meat shields canonically). A lot of who I have seen votes for have plenty of fighting spirit and are ready to rack up percentages. My worries for the forerunner, K. Rool, is that he was probably considered before and had Moveset trouble. But hey, if they can give their joke, ahem, sorry, vintage characters fully functional movesets which make sense, I don't see why K. Rool can't have one too.
(Maybe Rule 7 could have an appendage regarding characters with very few canonical fighting moves, or defining actions, to be used in a moveset? Party-game fillers Daisy and Waluigi spring to mind.)

 

[Braydon]

24 Doesn't make any sense... Why would that disqualify a character? Not having multiple characters from the same third party company is completely arbitrary pointless and unreasonable.

 

[PushDustIn]

This is a really good summation. A lot of votes I have seen have been kind of throwaway, and hopefully as submission guidance like this becomes more widespread, we can weed out the Shreks and Gokus and actually get to a point where the poll is truly representative of people's feelings, having been deeply considered.

Relevance is important-- it was only when I saw a photo summation of one poll, I realised Abraham Lincoln wasn't a joke vote. There are countless video game characters-- and while voting for underdogs is okay, if you tell someone your vote and are asked "who?" 9 times out of 10, please rethink it (Shovel Knight and Shantae spring to mind-- two names I never even heard before this poll. Granted, my game knowledge is limited, but come on, these have to be cult characters.)

Fighting spirit is coming across as a tad weird to me because many characters which seem near pacifists have made it in. Mainly, though, old Nintendo icons, and Rosalina (who I'm pretty sure wouldn't be tossing her star-children around as meat shields canonically). A lot of who I have seen votes for have plenty of fighting spirit and are ready to rack up percentages. My worries for the forerunner, K. Rool, is that he was probably considered before and had Moveset trouble. But hey, if they can give their joke, ahem, sorry, vintage characters fully functional movesets which make sense, I don't see why K. Rool can't have one too.
(Maybe Rule 7 could have an appendage regarding characters with very few canonical fighting moves, or defining actions, to be used in a moveset? Party-game fillers Daisy and Waluigi spring to mind.)

Fighting Spirit was the reason for not including the Villager in Brawl. He obviously changed his mind, but it's something he considers. Check the additional interview below.

24 Doesn't make any sense... Why would that disqualify a character? Not having multiple characters from the same third party company is completely arbitrary pointless and unreasonable.

“In the last game, when we added Sonic and Snake, there were lots of different hoops to jump through as far as getting approvals and making sure all the parties involved were happy with the way things went. You can consider it a very special circumstance for that to happen.”

Even Pokémon characters can be tricky to bring in because of the licensing arrangements, Sakurai added.

“It’s much tougher than people can imagine. I know lots of people have requests and their own ideas about third-party characters that would work, but I want people to understand that adding a third-party character like Mega Man is a very special situation,” he said.

Sakurai

I believe the 1 character per company rule comes from the Brawl days. @ SamuraiPanda , do you remember where he said it? (Or am I just making stuff up?)

An additional interview.

 

[Braydon]

Sakurai.

Seems to me there's a lot of reason in that to go with two from the same third party company, seeing as how they were already willing to do it once. Really I'd think Capcom would be quite eager to put monster hunter in, what with monster hunter 4 just out for 3DS in the US. The monster hunter fan base is mostly Japanese and Korean so they could definitely use the publicity.

 

[PushDustIn]

Seems to me there's a lot of reason in that to go with two from the same third party company, seeing as how they were already willing to do it once. Really I'd think Capcom would be quite eager to put monster hunter in, what with monster hunter 4 just out for 3DS in the US. The monster hunter fan base is mostly Japanese and Korean so they could definitely use the publicity.

I believe the Monster Hunter director said no crossovers. Sakurai does love his Monster Hunter games.

 

[XStarWarriorX]

Seems that all the chars im supporting, krystal, bandanna dee, and some others have no issues then, it comes down to popularity

'Cept for shantae...

Kuma cant be in because sakurai's cat should be the first to make it and is more iconic

Another great thread by pushdustin, if there was a SB user of the year, my vote would go to you. Keep up the good work!

 

[Shrokatii]

yay, hopefully if people read this, we wont get an irrelevant character again!

jk, but i seriously think those are some good points, except for 11, because Olimar is in, which i think hes really small, but ive never played pikmin so i might be wrong. but i do hope some people read these guidelines so their vote isnt wasted, because thats worse than not voting at all, really

 

[Wolley2xjd]

3. That's a clone of Ridley, Super Metroid Ridley is still very possible which goes in to 10.

Spoiler

He large but he's not that large and I seen people resize him to a point he's looks good.

Spoiler

The only really hold him back in 17. which at that point I hope sakurai can see that he very could work as a fighter during the time between now and then and hey who's maybe we might a new design just for this game but I wouldn't hold my breath, for now we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[PushDustIn]

yay, hopefully if people read this, we wont get an irrelevant character again!

jk, but i seriously think those are some good points, except for 11, because Olimar is in, which i think hes really small, but ive never played pikmin so i might be wrong. but i do hope some people read these guidelines so their vote isnt wasted, because thats worse than not voting at all, really

Olimar isn't known to be small vis–à–vis to the other characters in the game. Ridley is known to be really big, versus Samus (being able to easily grab and hold her), so the SNES Ridley that @ W Wolley2xjd suggested would be the only plausible option. On the other hand, Pikmin alone wouldn't work as they would need to be much smaller than Olimar, and are known to be easily thrown.

 

[Maxilian]

Olimar isn't known to be small vis–à–vis to the other characters in the game. Ridley is known to be really big, versus Samus (being able to easily grab and hold her), so the SNES Ridley that @ W Wolley2xjd suggested would be the only plausible option. On the other hand, Pikmin alone wouldn't work as they would need to be much smaller than Olimar, and are known to be easily thrown.

But Olimar is really small

If Olimar can have his size changed, why can't we do the same with Ridley? (even more when other people already shown that is possible to have him in the game without him looking out of place)

 

[A Distant Demon]

How did I know this would turn into a ridley debate somehow?

Would dixie kong be out from rule 17? or by dropped do you mean considered but not planned, instead of cut.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

But Olimar is really small

If Olimar can have his size changed, why can't we do the same with Ridley? (even more when other people already shown that is possible to have him in the game without him looking out of place)

Because it's Olimar's whole universe that have been scaled.

BUT we can argue that the pokemon sizes (and weight too) doesn't really respect the Pokedex. The fact is seeing a slightly bigger Pikachu or smaller Charizard isn't really that shocking. Whereas Sakurai thinks that Ridley needs to much tweaks, including his size, to work as a fighter, and wouldn't by faithful to the character anymore.

 

[Maxilian]

How did I know this would turn into a ridley debate somehow?

Would dixie kong be out from rule 17? or by dropped do you mean considered but not planned, instead of cut.

If the name "Ridley" is mentioned, then it's going to become a Ridley debate...

Also... doesn't that give Dixie Kong a bigger chance?

 

[PushDustIn]

How did I know this would turn into a ridley debate somehow?

Would dixie kong be out from rule 17? or by dropped do you mean considered but not planned, instead of cut.

Here's something to help illustrate the difference:

Consideration -> Planned -> Cut
Melee: Takamaru -> Dedede -> Ditto's Pokeball

Consideration examples are Ayumi Tachibani and Takamaru. If the reason(s) that they didn't get in hasn't been fixed, then it's a huge strike against them.

Dixie was planned, she has empty data in Brawl, plus Sakurai confirmed it. So #17 does not apply to her.

 

[allison]

On 17: Pac-Man and Villager were dropped from consideration in Brawl, but later appeared in Smash 4.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Very good this is very true

Bonus points for understanding some characters confirmed for non dlc has these reasons

And little mac should be a 15 as well.


And i do know viridi can get a dlc status as well.

Duck hunt has a 4 just like her (duck hunt stage the dog is still a minor hazord even if duck hunt is being played as.)

 

[CaptainAmerica]

He large but he's not that large and I seen people resize him to a point he's looks good.
View attachment 46196
View attachment 46195

I love these pictures since nothing looks 'unnatural' there. But enough people are arguing Ridley, so I'll try to bring back to general.

I don't know if lines 1-4 would truly disqualify a character, but that's jus my opinion.

1. Yes, if they're already in, they shouldn't get in again, but alternate costumes (Dr. Mario) have made the jump before.
2. Who says that Assists can't be turned off? It's easy to patch them out of the random list, and then they don't show up at all. I think they should have great chances, since most of the assists are very popular in their own right. It would make sense for those popular characters to get a promotion, then add new assists of the less popular ones. Besides, they already have models too, so may just need quick optimization.
3. See above, but substitute 'boss.' However, we've only got four, and most will get cancelled on a different rule
4. The engineer of Spirit Train says hi. Also see above.

 

[PushDustIn]

On 17: Pac-Man and Villager were dropped from consideration in Brawl, but later appeared in Smash 4.

. If the reason(s) that they didn't get in hasn't been fixed, then it's a huge strike against them..

Villager was dropped from consideration because Sakurai didn't see him as having 'the fighting spirit'. In Sm4sh's pre-production he shook that image.
Takamaru was considered for Melee, and Sm4sh but didn't get in because of lack of familiarity in the West.

Keep in mind, one point isn't suppose to completely disqualify the character. The more points against them, the worse of a chance they have. I even noted this on my site.

1. Yes, if they're already in, they shouldn't get in again, but alternate costumes (Dr. Mario) have made the jump before.
2. Who says that Assists can't be turned off? It's easy to patch them out of the random list, and then they don't show up at all. I think they should have great chances, since most of the assists are very popular in their own right. It would make sense for those popular characters to get a promotion, then add new assists of the less popular ones. Besides, they already have models too, so may just need quick optimization.
3. See above, but substitute 'boss.' However, we've only got four, and most will get cancelled on a different rule
4. The engineer of Spirit Train says hi. Also see above.

1. With this one it's, "Hey, they are already a playable character!". Like it someone suggested Toon Link for DLC.
Mario has had a Wario alt costume since 64. Alts mean very little. Daisy isn't disqualified because of her Peach alt.
2. Woah. Assist trophy models are way less detailed than player models. Player models require new models, and at least 2 sets per console to boot.
4. Just another point against them.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

1. With this one it's, "Hey, they are already a playable character!". Like it someone suggested Toon Link for DLC.
Mario has had a Wario alt costume since 64. Alts mean very little. Daisy isn't disqualified because of her Peach alt.
2. Woah. Assist trophy models are way less detailed than player models. Player models require new models, and at least 2 sets per console to boot.
4. Just another point against them.

Fair points. I'm not trying to beat anything down. If someone is suggesting DLC of the exact same character in the game, I completely agree that that is not going to get them considered.

I've seen that the Assist models are a bit less detailed, but not horribly so. More importantly, they most likely already have the bones rigged, which don't depend too much on the character's detail level, so that's one less thing to to. Also, some characters like Waluigi move a lot, so that also takes care of the running animations. Granted, I have a very rudimentary knowledge of modeling, but I know that rigging and animations are the most time consuming parts of the setup.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Villager was dropped from consideration because Sakurai didn't see him as having 'the fighting spirit'. In Sm4sh's pre-production he shook that image.
Takamaru was considered for Melee, and Sm4sh but didn't get in because of lack of familiarity in the West.

Keep in mind, one point isn't suppose to completely disqualify the character. The more points against them, the worse of a chance they have. I even noted this on my site.



1. With this one it's, "Hey, they are already a playable character!". Like it someone suggested Toon Link for DLC.
Mario has had a Wario alt costume since 64. Alts mean very little. Daisy isn't disqualified because of her Peach alt.
2. Woah. Assist trophy models are way less detailed than player models. Player models require new models, and at least 2 sets per console to boot.
4. Just another point against them.

Forgive me but i don't understand what you mean by another point aginst them.

But another one of that by the way

The conductor if not being used is not the only one saying hi.

But the respones from the other one is woof and quack.

 

[TheNerdyOne_]

But Olimar is really small

If Olimar can have his size changed, why can't we do the same with Ridley? (even more when other people already shown that is possible to have him in the game without him looking out of place)

What it comes down to is that Sakurai said we can't, and that's the point of this list. Scaling Olimar up is very much different from scaling Ridley down in this case. That point is talking about the size of a character in relation to other characters from their franchise, especially if those other characters are already in Smash. Sakurai sees this as an issue, so it has a valid spot on this list.

 

[A Distant Demon]

ITT Ridley supporters making other ridley supporters look desperate.

look guys. Sakurai has outright said Ridley isnt happening. He wont "pull a villager" because that was over years. Maybe next smash

Duck hunt is 8 bit and follows the same rules as cranky 75m dk

Toon link is different from pyrosphere. Ridley actively engages in battle. TL does not.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

ITT Ridley supporters making other ridley supporters look desperate.

look guys. Sakurai has outright said Ridley isnt happening. He wont "pull a villager" because that was over years. Maybe next smash

Duck hunt is 8 bit and follows the same rules as cranky 75m dk

Toon link is different from pyrosphere. Ridley actively engages in battle. TL does not.

Exactly ridley ain't happening.

Even if theres explainmation to the 3 reasons in that interview in the votes its still never ever happening. (Until sakurai steps down.)


And oh yea i forgot Donkey kong is a third one to the stage element and playable concept (level 2 in donkey kong.)

 

[Wolfie557]

Thanks, reasons were useful for my project.

 

[Spinosaurus]

But Olimar is really small

If Olimar can have his size changed, why can't we do the same with Ridley? (even more when other people already shown that is possible to have him in the game without him looking out of place)

This argument doesn't really work because the issue is less with size and more to do with proportions and scale.

And that is all I'll say on the matter.

EDIT: Kuma is adorable

 

[GalacticPetey]

King K. Rool doesn't seem to have any issues then.

 

[Maxilian]

King K. Rool doesn't seem to have any issues then.

Nope, there's no problem with King K. Rool, but he's not really a character that i want to see in the game (yes i understand that he's pretty popular also he's a villain -something we are missing-)

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Nope, there's no problem with King K. Rool, but he's not really a character that i want to see in the game (yes i understand that he's pretty popular also he's a villain -something we are missing-)

Thats not on the list of the 27 rules

 

[Maxilian]

Thats not on the list of the 27 rules

Oh, i was only giving my opinion but i also wanted to point out that King K. Rool is a Villain, something we are lacking in the game, so i think that may be a plus for him

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Fighting Spirit was the reason for not including the Villager in Brawl. He obviously changed his mind, but it's something he considers. Check the additional interview below.



Sakurai

I believe the 1 character per company rule comes from the Brawl days. @ SamuraiPanda , do you remember where he said it? (Or am I just making stuff up?)

An additional interview.

I don't but Sakurai has contradicted himself so much over the years that you shouldn't take anything he's said in the past as fact.

 

[Wolley2xjd]

ITT Ridley supporters making other ridley supporters look desperate.

WOW that pretty rude now wasn't it?

Exactly ridley ain't happening.

Even if theres explainmation to the 3 reasons in that interview in the votes its still never ever happening. (Until sakurai steps down.)

This is pretty true but maybe in a few months Ssakurai few chance his mind but like I said before i'm not gonna hold my breath.

 

[Wintropy]

Based on these criteria, the only issue I could see applying to Tiki is 18 - and even then, it's a pretty arbitrary conditional. I'm always hesitant to heed the "X series has too many reps" argument.

And anyway Sakurai like Fire Emblem so Sakurai bias.

 

[SpottedCerberus]

I don't know about #2. It seems like it might save some time if the character is already in the game as an assist trophy. That way they don't have to start from scratch.

Basically, I've voted for Waluigi about 2 dozen times now. I will not be told that my efforts are all for naught.

 

[PushDustIn]

I don't know about #2. It seems like it might save some time if the character is already in the game as an assist trophy. That way they don't have to start from scratch.

Basically, I've voted for Waluigi about 2 dozen times now. I will not be told that my efforts are all for naught.

It's not, on the Japanese site it says that the poll data may be used for future titles.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

The only characters that are left whom I truly (100%) desire:

Isaac - Golden Sun
King K. Rool - Donkey Kong Country

Characters I would not mind seeing (sometimes I encourage):

Bandanna Dee - Kirby
Inkling - Splatoon
Krystal - Star Fox Adventures

Third Party Characters that I believe should get in:

Shantae - Half Genie Hero