21 Character Starting Roster

[kashikomarimashita]

Scans have recently surfaced on the Brawl Central website www.brawlcentral.com showing a Brawl guide. This guide has the most complete information to date regarding characters and their attacks. Not to mention percentages that clarify how characters differ in weight and attack power.

This guide lists all the characters shown on the Dojo site except for Sonic and Snake. Thus I have concluded that we have our starting roster, and this is a guide that covers those characters.

Sakurai has already mentioned that Snake and Sonic are unlockable. Thus we are left with 21 characters. That would give us a nice rectangle on the character select screen when we start the game. 3 rows of 7. Or perhaps rows of 9, 7 and 5. And the random select would be like in Melee, outside the characters block.

It makes perfect sense. Sakurai always intended to reveal the entire starting roster before Brawl was originally scheduled for release. Olimar was the final piece. This would explain that lame stretch where we got no new characters. It was just filler after the first American delay was announced. Otherwise the character updates would have been consistent through Dec. 3rd.

Sakurai knew what he was doing all along. He only added in Sonic and Snake for publicity reasons. I dont see why else he would want to reveal unlockables.

I dont care what the prophets say. Ill go with what is shown in a published guide. At the same time it does not explicitly state anywhere in the scans that the 21 characters are the starting roster. But I just dont see how it could be otherwise.

Its been so obvious. And Im sure many people have already suspected it. Now this guide all but confirms it.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Some, can this conclude that this21 starter character leak is in no way a rumor? I for one am starting to find hope in this.

 

[kashikomarimashita]

A leak. No way. Its from a guide. This guide does not reveal any unlockables because it is intended for people who want to enjoy the game in its entirety without spoilers. Its meant to come out with or shortly before the games release. Im gonna look for it tomorrow. i have a feeling its already out.

 

[Scott667]

Sorry to doubt, but is there a picture you have seen (from the brawl info guide) that shows the 3 by 7 rectangle? Or is this just speculation? That random button has been in all the demos and I thought it was going to be in the game.

I'm not really doubting you (you are one of the few I do believe) but rather asking a question.

 

[SuperLink9]

I don't understand it though. Olimar was revealed a full 2 or 3 months after King Dedede was. Not to mention he's not in the Famitsu guide! When Sheik IS, and Sheik was revealed AFTER Olimar!

Also, isn't 21 a very strange number? Why? Personally I think Olimar is a secret, and the Starter roster is 20.

 

[kashikomarimashita]

Sorry to doubt, but is there a picture you have seen (from the brawl info guide) that shows the 3 by 7 rectangle? Or is this just speculation? That random button has been in all the demos and I thought it was going to be in the game.

I'm not really doubting you (you are one of the few I do believe) but rather asking a question.

The rectangle is speculation given that there are 21 characters and the random select is not like in the demo. Besides Ive always thought the select screen in the demo was just a place holder. In any event this roster makes the most sense from what Dojo has shown us. And now we have a guide to back it up.

 

[Hyper Luigi]

Olimar was in the Famitsu guide.

 

[kashikomarimashita]

I don't understand it though. Olimar was revealed a full 2 or 3 months after King Dedede was. Not to mention he's not in the Famitsu guide! When Sheik IS, and Sheik was revealed AFTER Olimar!

Also, isn't 21 a very strange number? Why? Personally I think Olimar is a secret, and the Starter roster is 20.

Olimar is in the commercials. People would be cheesed to find he is not a starting character.As for Sonic, he too makes an appearance, but Sakurai already covered his *** by stating well in advance that he has to be unlocked.

 

[ratizi]

I hope this means we have at least another 5-7 characters for unlockability.

 

[SuperLink9]

Olimar was in the Famitsu guide.

No, he isn't

All 200 pages, no Olimar

And Olimar may be in the commercials, but he's also on the Dojo, and Sonic and Snake are in the commercials too. I think Olimar is secret, I can't think why he wouldn't be in the Famitsu guide unless that was the case. 21 is just too weird a number for starters.

 

[theoryC]

EDIT: Sorry, didn't mean to double post. >_<

 

[theoryC]

I doubt Nintendo really cares whether the number of starters looks funny.

 

[kashikomarimashita]

No, he isn't

All 200 pages, no Olimar

And Olimar may be in the commercials, but he's also on the Dojo, and Sonic and Snake are in the commercials too. I think Olimar is secret, I can't think why he wouldn't be in the Famitsu guide unless that was the case. 21 is just too weird a number for starters.

Yeah, Sonic and Snake are in the commercials, but Sakurai already stated in advance that they have to be unlocked. That way no one will be disappointed to find that they arent playable when starting the game. Olimar is not like that. Sakurai could have easily stated that he has to be unlocked. Hes told us a lot of things that need to be unlocked, like music and options. Why would he not do it with Olimar were it not the case?

Everything he has given us has been at face value. Sure he has witheld info, but I dont think he has ever tried to mislead us. People are just looking too much in to it.

 

[SuperLink9]

Well he did say the secret characters would end up on the net easily anyway, so I don't think he would have a problem with revealing them.

We'll see I guess. But if I could pick ANY number of starters, 21 would probably be one of the last, it's just such a strange number of starters to have... it seems so.. Random!

 

[kashikomarimashita]

Well he did say the secret characters would end up on the net easily anyway, so I don't think he would have a problem with revealing them.

We'll see I guess. But if I could pick ANY number of starters, 21 would probably be one of the last, it's just such a strange number of starters to have... it seems so.. Random!

It does seem a little strange, but thats not what matters. And yes Sakurai did say hidden characters would be revealed. And he gave us Snake and Sonic. Besides he was referring to the differences in launch dates and the spoilers it would cause.

 

[SuperLink9]

1 secret character to promote and push the game wouldn't be a crime now though would it?

I'm astounded that everyone is somehow certain Olimar is a starter, without any real evidence. Everything contradicts everything else... just wait a week before making profound claims :S

 

[Matt Silver]

It's the Final Roster I want to know more than the starting one.

But, the Starting Roster is probably just all characters on the DOJO, minus Sonic and Snake (And maybe Olimar).

 

[SuperLink9]

The thing is, if you debunk Olimar from the starter roster, you possibly debunk the entire 35 2Chan characters theory. :embarrass

Also, 20 starters and 15 secrets makes FAR more sense than 21 starters and 14 secrets... there 11 secrets in Melee. Only 3 more? I think not, even 4 more is a little more realistic

 

[kashikomarimashita]

The only other reason I can think of as to why Snake and Sonic were left out of the guide is because they are not Nintendo licenced characters. But Nintendo obtained the rights to use them for this game. Maybe they didnt want to include them anyhow. But that doesnt seem very logical. It has to be the starting roster.

 

[zagman505]

what's wrong with debunking the entire 35 character theory? i never liked it anyway. if we got more than 35 characters, say 38 instead, then would there be anything wrong with 21 starters and 17 secrets? but seriously, why would sakurai reveal hidden characters on the dojo before the game comes out, except for snake and sonic who would obviously be revealed for publicity purposes?

 

[kashikomarimashita]

what's wrong with debunking the entire 35 character theory? i never liked it anyway. if we got more than 35 characters, say 38 instead, then would there be anything wrong with 21 starters and 17 secrets? but seriously, why would sakurai reveal hidden characters on the dojo before the game comes out, except for snake and sonic who would obviously be revealed for publicity purposes?

Im with you dude. I dont understand why people so vehemently defend that theory. Its completely based on what prophets had said. At least this 21 character roster is supported by Dojo and this new guide. Two official sources.

 

[SuperLink9]

what's wrong with debunking the entire 35 character theory? i never liked it anyway. if we got more than 35 characters, say 38 instead, then would there be anything wrong with 21 starters and 17 secrets? but seriously, why would sakurai reveal hidden characters on the dojo before the game comes out, except for snake and sonic who would obviously be revealed for publicity purposes?

Nothing is wrong with debunking that theory, that's entirely what I'm trying to do by debunking the 21 starters roster. If you debunk Olimar you debunk 2Chan 35, so try to debunk him! >.<

And Brawl was meant to come out in December. Presuming Dojo updates are planned, Sonic was the final promotional push that would last until XMAS. It was DELAYED though, so what would Brawl need to give it that push for the newer release date in January/February? Why release some highly anticipated characters of course... Sheik wouldn't be enough alone, far from it, but having Olimar and Sheik within 2 weeks seemed almost too good to be true from many fans. Basically, the game wasn't planned to be delayed, so they had to pull out the extra guns to help promote it. AKA, a secret character, namely Pikmin & Olimar.

And come on! What's a secret character roster without ANY new series' in it?! Melee introduced Fire Emblem, and G&W, through secret characters, what would Brawl give us? Nothing, no surprises at all. This is why Olimar as secret character FTW.

EDIT: No evidence on the Dojo to say that Olimar is starter, because there is also nothing said about Sonic and Snake there. And I wouldn't call the guide official, though of course it's more reliable than some anonymous on 2Chan, that and the guide doesn't actually say Olimar is a starter, as far as I know. Olimar is just IN it. That's all.

 

[kashikomarimashita]

Nothing is wrong with debunking that theory, that's entirely what I'm trying to do by debunking the 21 starters roster. If you debunk Olimar you debunk 2Chan 35, so try to debunk him! >.<

And Brawl was meant to come out in December. Presuming Dojo updates are planned, Sonic was the final promotional push that would last until XMAS. It was DELAYED though, so what would Brawl need to give it that push for the newer release date in January/February? Why release some highly anticipated characters of course... Sheik wouldn't be enough alone, far from it, but having Olimar and Sheik within 2 weeks seemed almost too good to be true from many fans. Basically, the game wasn't planned to be delayed, so they had to pull out the extra guns to help promote it. AKA, a secret character, namely Pikmin & Olimar.

And come on! What's a secret character roster without ANY new series' in it?! Melee introduced Fire Emblem, and G&W, through secret characters, what would Brawl give us? Nothing, no surprises at all. This is why Olimar as secret character FTW.

EDIT: No evidence on the Dojo to say that Olimar is starter, because there is also nothing said about Sonic and Snake there. And I wouldn't call the guide official, though of course it's more reliable than some anonymous on 2Chan, that and the guide doesn't actually say Olimar is a starter, as far as I know. Olimar is just IN it. That's all.

The guide is official because it uses photos and info from the developers. I mean they have to get that info from the game makers itself. It gives detailed information about things like wall jumping and it shows a Final Destination pic before even Dojo. Thus its official, because the game makers could have only provided that information, and well in advance for it to be written, edited and printed by this point.

And if all the new series characters were unlockable, that would mean Pit, Diddy Kong , and Wario would also have to be unlockable. But what Im thinking is instead of introducing new series as unlockables hes doing that instead for third party characters.

And I dont think Sakurai ever believed the game would come out in Dec. Im mean really. The English version has been delayed like 100 days. He had to have seen it coming. As for Dec. 3rd that was just wishful thinking on the part of Nintendo execs. Expecting the game to be out for the holiday season.

Oh yeah the Sonic update came more than a month before the Dec. 3 release date. So he couldnt have intended it be used as a final push for the original release date.

 

[zagman505]

Nothing is wrong with debunking that theory, that's entirely what I'm trying to do by debunking the 21 starters roster. If you debunk Olimar you debunk 2Chan 35, so try to debunk him! >.<

And Brawl was meant to come out in December. Presuming Dojo updates are planned, Sonic was the final promotional push that would last until XMAS. It was DELAYED though, so what would Brawl need to give it that push for the newer release date in January/February? Why release some highly anticipated characters of course... Sheik wouldn't be enough alone, far from it, but having Olimar and Sheik within 2 weeks seemed almost too good to be true from many fans. Basically, the game wasn't planned to be delayed, so they had to pull out the extra guns to help promote it. AKA, a secret character, namely Pikmin & Olimar.

And come on! What's a secret character roster without ANY new series' in it?! Melee introduced Fire Emblem, and G&W, through secret characters, what would Brawl give us? Nothing, no surprises at all. This is why Olimar as secret character FTW.

EDIT: No evidence on the Dojo to say that Olimar is starter, because there is also nothing said about Sonic and Snake there. And I wouldn't call the guide official, though of course it's more reliable than some anonymous on 2Chan, that and the guide doesn't actually say Olimar is a starter, as far as I know. Olimar is just IN it. That's all.

ah my bad, i misinterpreted what you wrote there >_> but yeah i guess you do make some pretty good points.

however, didn't the delay come when sonic was announced? while dojo updates are probably planned, that doesn't necessarily mean that they had to reveal a hidden character to give a promotional boost. instead, it could just be that their reserves of starter characters to reveal would no longer be enough to last until release at the rate they were revealing characters, so they had to give us those two months of filler updates to be able to still reveal a few characters closer to release. because without the delay, it would have worked perfectly, with them revealing new characters roughly every two weeks before november. shiek and olimar would have been revealed by the end of november, just in time for release.

and sonic and snake are both new series you hafta unlock -_- and i'm rooting for isaac to be an unlockable, so there's another one.

and finally, why would they include olimar in the guide unless he was a starter? if he was a hidden character, then why wouldn't they include sonic and snake?

oh, and kashiko, sonic was revealed sometime in october.

 

[Boofer]

Im with you dude. I dont understand why people so vehemently defend that theory. Its completely based on what prophets had said. At least this 21 character roster is supported by Dojo and this new guide. Two official sources.

People defend it because everything adds up far too perfectly. The "prophets" have had waaay too many things come true to be coincidences man....I'm sorry it's like that.

However, I fail to see what SuperLink is getting at. How does Olimar as a secret character say anything about this the dreaded 35? And why is SuperLink calling it the 2ch 35 when as far as we know, they haven't said anything about the alleged dreaded 35?

I'm going to accept it as fact, but if something debunks it I will be all kinds of happy.

 

[SuperLink9]

Arg, I'm just gonna end up repeating points...

First of all, magazines all over the place that aren't requested, created and/or distributed by Nintendo themselves are unofficial. NGamer magazine is unofficial, while Nintendo Power and ONM are the only official mags in their respected countries. All magazines, not just official ones, get exclusives, which means this magazine doesn't have to be official, and it's entirely possible they may not have been completely informed.

And if Sonic + delay were around the same time, couldn't the opposite be said? That he was revealed to compensate for the delay? Like Olimar and Sheik could have been?

And I'm gonna go back to my main point now:

21 is the WEIRDEST number for a character roster I've ever heard of

If I was making a roster, 21 would be th last number I'd have thought of, an even number, a number divisible by 5 (like 20 or 25) would have been perfectly normal, but this just doesn't do it for me. I know there's something up with it. Who knows, there might be ANOTHER character in the starter roster... or Olimar isn't a starter :S

EDIT: Ah, I call it the 2Chan 35 because everyone seems to think the 2Chan starter roster backs up this final roster. Everyone says it adds together (personally I don't see why...)

 

[kashikomarimashita]

Arg, I'm just gonna end up repeating points...

First of all, magazines all over the place that aren't requested, created and/or distributed by Nintendo themselves are unofficial. NGamer magazine is unofficial, while Nintendo Power and ONM are the only official mags in their respected countries. All magazines, not just official ones, get exclusives, which means this magazine doesn't have to be official, and it's entirely possible they may not have been completely informed.

And if Sonic + delay were around the same time, couldn't the opposite be said? That he was revealed to compensate for the delay? Like Olimar and Sheik could have been?

And I'm gonna go back to my main point now:

21 is the WEIRDEST number for a character roster I've ever heard of

If I was making a roster, 21 would be th last number I'd have thought of, an even number, a number divisible by 5 (like 20 or 25) would have been perfectly normal, but this just doesn't do it for me. I know there's something up with it. Who knows, there might be ANOTHER character in the starter roster... or Olimar isn't a starter :S

Fine we cant say that the guide is official, though its info has to come from an official source.

In any event it looks like we are both standing our ground on this one. You have your reasons and I have mine. So we will have to wait until Jan 31st to see who is right.

No hard feelings though. Posting here is all in good fun right? Except when those **** flammers go running their mouths off. But I can see you are better than that.

 

[Revven]

1 secret character to promote and push the game wouldn't be a crime now though would it?

I'm astounded that everyone is somehow certain Olimar is a starter, without any real evidence. Everything contradicts everything else... just wait a week before making profound claims :S

Well, it is the most logical assumption, the Dojo HAS been revealing the starting roster since it launched. Sonic and Snake were both to be confirmed as the only unlockable characters on the Dojo after all. It would be right to assume that Olimar is also a starter like Dedede is as well. If the next Whobby demos Olimar, that only further confirms him as a starter.

I believe Olimar is a starter because of the underlying facts. You don't have to if you don't want, but, I will.

 

[kashikomarimashita]

Well, it is the most logical assumption, the Dojo HAS been revealing the starting roster since it launched. Sonic and Snake were both to be confirmed as the only unlockable characters on the Dojo after all. It would be right to assume that Olimar is also a starter like Dedede is as well. If the next Whobby demos Olimar, that only further confirms him as a starter.

I believe Olimar is a starter because of the underlying facts. You don't have to if you don't want, but, I will.

Thats a good point. What if Olimar is playable at the next Whobby. We only need to have him ,Lucas and Zelda playable to round out the 21 character starting roster.

 

[SuperLink9]

Well yeah, I simply see it as trying to deduct the truth, presenting all the options. Most of the time I argue just for the sake of argument

For example, everyone was convinced that the starter roster and the 35 roster were real or even confirmed, so I try to present all the possible options otherwise. All we need is to wait 1 week. and we'll have our real answers soon enough.

EDIT: If Sonic was playable at E4all, then does Whobby really confirm the starter roster? Sonic and Snake's secretivity isn't mentioned at all on the Dojo itself, only on other various interviews etc.

 

[Revven]

EDIT: If Sonic was playable at E4all, then does Whobby really confirm the starter roster? Sonic and Snake's secretivity isn't mentioned at all on the Dojo itself, only on other various interviews etc.

It's not given on the site no, Famitsu confirmed it. And I figured as much you'd use Sonic as a counter for me. >_>;

I don't have much time left so I can't really comment any further (teh school iz on mah bacz man!11!11111)

 

[Boofer]

Possibility: 21 starters, 14 unlockables, 35 total. A whole bunch of numbers divisible by seven. Coincidence?

 

[kashikomarimashita]

It's not given on the site no, Famitsu confirmed it. And I figured as much you'd use Sonic as a counter for me. >_>;

I don't have much time left so I can't really comment any further (teh school iz on mah bacz man!11!11111)

Yeah Im with you. And I too got to go. Its about my bed time. Ill see where this goes when I got all that free time to kill at work tomorrow.

Maybe something will come along that proves me wrong about this 21 roster, but I doubt it.

 

[DarkDragoon]

>.> Thats just it.
Interviews.
Why would Sakurai LIE in an interview?
Also, 21 is NOT a wierd number. It arranges VERY nicely, so I wouldn't doubt it. Besides, It pretty much tells us that there could be more than 14 unlockable PCs, because this is supposed to be a sort-of End-All.

Possibility: 21 starters, 14 unlockables, 35 total. A whole bunch of numbers divisible by seven. Coincidence?

D: 21 Starters, 21 Unlockables, 42 Total. A whole bunch of numbers divisible by seven. =)
Melee about doubled in roster size when you unlocked everyone, why change that here?

-DD

 

[Jenkins: Spy Monkey]

Possibility: 21 starters, 14 unlockables, 35 total. A whole bunch of numbers divisible by seven. Coincidence?

Yes. But the numbers are still probably correct, anyways.

 

[marioseven]

hmm the starting roster is alot bigger now than in melee.

 

[zagman505]

Arg, I'm just gonna end up repeating points...

First of all, magazines all over the place that aren't requested, created and/or distributed by Nintendo themselves are unofficial. NGamer magazine is unofficial, while Nintendo Power and ONM are the only official mags in their respected countries. All magazines, not just official ones, get exclusives, which means this magazine doesn't have to be official, and it's entirely possible they may not have been completely informed.

And if Sonic + delay were around the same time, couldn't the opposite be said? That he was revealed to compensate for the delay? Like Olimar and Sheik could have been?

And I'm gonna go back to my main point now:

21 is the WEIRDEST number for a character roster I've ever heard of

If I was making a roster, 21 would be th last number I'd have thought of, an even number, a number divisible by 5 (like 20 or 25) would have been perfectly normal, but this just doesn't do it for me. I know there's something up with it. Who knows, there might be ANOTHER character in the starter roster... or Olimar isn't a starter :S

sorry for delayed reply.

ok touche on the magazine point, but now it all depends on the magazine in question. and considering the content of the magazine (especially the final destination pic), i think it's very likely that the magazine knows more than we do, which suggests that olimar is a starter.

but why would sonic have been revealed to compensate for the delay? if anything, the delay was revealed to compensate for sonic but seriously, i'm sure they knew about both sonic and the delay well before either was announced. they would have definitely announced sonic soon anyway for publicity, so they chose to announce both at basically the same time to dampen the shock of the delay. if olimar really is a secret character, why didn't they reveal ANY characters in november or december? if they decided to reveal one secret character, they could have just as easily decided to reveal two, whether it's highly wanted newcomers like ridley and krystal or returning unlockable veterans like captain falcon, ganondorf, luigi, jigglypuff, ness, etc. that would have prevented us from getting two months of such boring updates (seriously, widescreen?), and they either would have boosted hype more by revealing popular candidates or they would have relieved fears about returning veterans and not had to spoil any new hidden characters. instead, we got two months of bad updates and only recently had both shiek and olimar revealed. that all suggests that the delay just threw a wrench in the process of revealing the starting roster, and they had to put in tons of filler before revealing the rest of the starting roster as planned.

and as for your main point... that's the most absurd point i've ever heard. seriously, judging based by the 'weirdness' of the number? what's wrong with 21? melee, if i recall correctly, had 14 starters? a starting roster of 21 would just add another row of 7. nothing wrong with that.

 

[SuperLink9]

Possibility: 21 starters, 14 unlockables, 35 total. A whole bunch of numbers divisible by seven. Coincidence?

Why would that be? :S

Maybe there is a super special secret in Brawl to do with the number 7.

It's not given on the site no, Famitsu confirmed it. And I figured as much you'd use Sonic as a counter for me. >_>;

Famitsu were also the ones who didn't mention Olimar at all in their "guide" While they mentioned Sheik, revealed a week after Olimar.

Maybe you're onto something with the "7" thing here though. Aww, only 35 characters ^^;

Hopefully it's not the infamous ROB one then ><

Still, if each row has 7 coloumns, then why would there be a few spaces in the 2Chan vid?

EDIT: Melee's 14 is a nice even number, but yeah, now I get the 7 thing, but I don't see why it has to be 7.

And as for the part about missing November and December, if you ask me, that only SUPPORTS Olimar as a secret character, infact it's one of the main reasons for believing so. Why would they wait so long then reveal ONE new character? Because it's a sneak peak into the secret characters!

 

[Boofer]

Why would that be? :S

Maybe there is a super special secret in Brawl to do with the number 7.

Famitsu were also the ones who didn't mention Olimar at all in their "guide" While they mentioned Sheik, revealed a week after Olimar.

Maybe you're onto something with the "7" thing here though. Aww, only 35 characters ^^;

Hopefully it's not the infamous ROB one then ><

Still, if each row has 7 coloumns, then why would there be a few spaces in the 2Chan vid?

Well, I don't think 7 will factor into the icons per column, but the total (35) could perfectly match up if it's anything like the mockup (+ the random icon). Even if the starting screen is a fake, I don't really think we'll have seven columns.

 

[smash_lord1050]

lol everybody is gong to need the guide. ull be sitting at home dying wasting ur time if u dont im going to buy it . . . . . maybe