2013 Community Tier List

[thespymachine]

This tier list is wrong.

All of your opinions are wrong.

 

[Kadano]

[…]

I don’t understand. This isn’t stickied, but the old 2010 tier list still is. So I guess this doesn’t replace it but rather serves as a community survey? Please clarify. In the op, it says something about “official” results, so there are contradicting indicators.

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

Sveet, how did you determine where to split the tiers? There is a 2 point gap between Peach and CF, but only a .9 gap between ICs and Doc. So why is that where the division takes place?

 

[Shadocat]

@ 10th. WE MOVING UP!!!!

 

[goateeguy]

I actually like this tier list quite a bit. I thought making a popular vote of it was going to skew everything but I think this reflects what we've been seeing recently.

 

[Heero Yuy]

Marth above Jiggly.

 

[Shadic]

I think the S tier should end after Peach - The difference in viability between her and Falcon is huge, imo. (And 5.11 to 7.0 is one of the largest gaps in the rankings.)

 

[AppleAppleAZ]

I'm glad people realize Jiggs is not 3rd lol

 

[Diakonos]

I'm glad people realize Jiggs is not 3rd lol

She was 3rd at EVO!

(and 1st in teams.)

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Voting variance isn't the most important thing when determining a tier division. The top 8 characters haven't been in danger of moving below the top 8 since before brawl was released. A sub-tier could be made for ICs and Falcon alone, but that would necessarily lead to other minor divisions (such as fox/falco tier) which is not very helpful information. Higher level players are welcome to talk about the game in terms of smaller tiers, but this list is primarily for newer players to see quickly and decisively which characters are viable and which aren't.

 

[FourStar]

He didn't use my list obviously, but I saw it coming. Yoshi's got talent, it's just not easy to tap into.

he's very under represented so until we see more from yoshi mains other than Vectorman and aMsa (as of recent) idk if he's that good. yeah he should move up but not three spots IMO

 

[Yakal]

Satisfied with Sheiks, Jigglypuffs, and Kirbys placement.

Doc and IC's should switch, though.

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

Voting variance isn't the most important thing when determining a tier division. The top 8 characters haven't been in danger of moving below the top 8 since before brawl was released. A sub-tier could be made for ICs and Falcon alone, but that would necessarily lead to other minor divisions (such as fox/falco tier) which is not very helpful information. Higher level players are welcome to talk about the game in terms of smaller tiers, but this list is primarily for newer players to see quickly and decisively which characters are viable and which aren't.

But doesn't that make the segmentation sort of arbitrary? I understand what you're saying, but it seems sort of against the notion of a tierlist in the first place. Perhaps the best compromise is to make subtiers? Like S+ is Fox/Falco, S is Sheik, Marth, Puff, Peach, S- is CF, ICs. That way would be more numerically representative, while allowing newer players to easily determine which characters are viable or not.

 

[Life]

I would just like to say I called YL over Link when I was a 12/yo on Gamefaqs

 

[KevinM]

What particularly bothers me is how small the variance between lists are. Only something like 3 people didn't have Fox or Falco as #1

Uhh I mean, yeah?

 

[StickandFluid]

YOUNG LINK!!!!


and Bowser is better then roy
i've seen bowsers wreck but i haven't seen a roy wreck since like 2007
just sayin'

 

[Aenglaan]

Interesting to see that Jiggilypuff has fallen down behind Sheik and Marth. Maybe people are adapting to her spacing and air attacks.

I'm also a little surprised that Ganondorf fell down 2 points on the list.

 

[Frogman751]

So glad pika got moved up

 

[Divinokage]

Interesting to see that Jiggilypuff has fallen down behind Sheik and Marth. Maybe people are adapting to her spacing and air attacks.

I'm also a little surprised that Ganondorf fell down 2 points on the list.

Why's that? Ganon is ass. >_<

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

Kirby has rightfully earned his place at the bottom of the bottom.
About time everyone else knows that Pichu > Kirby.

 

[Dan Salvato]

edit: Nvm, Sveet addressed this above.

By the way, though, I'm super glad Young Link is above Link in this list. I feel that although nobody has really unlocked his potential, it's there and he seriously has the tools to outclass Link. They have similar weaknesses but YL has far more strengths to make up for it.

 

[lordvaati]

Kirby is now last place on the tier.......

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Now, I haven't looked at a Melee tier list in like 4 years, and this is probably way late, but I've been telling everyone for about 9 years now that Young Link was better than Link, and it finally caught up....at least on this results poll. lol.

 

[stickmantankguy]

Ness should not be in the "Leave them alone tier." He has a lot of potential, as does Yoshi, which is why Yoshi is rising. The tier list is all about a character's potential, and Ness has tons of potential. Pichu and Kirby have pretty much no potential, and Bowser has only a little bit. But Ness can do so much bs.

I understand that he isn't a character to play when you first start playing, but that doesn't mean that a new player "should leave him alone."

When Ness goes up in the tiers, if it ever happens, I believe that Roy should take his place in the negligible tier. Because unlike ALL the other low tier characters, he is a clone of an S-tier, and therefore has a hefty amount of anti-metagame developed. Every step we take in learning how to counter Marth's bull**** is a step we take in learning how to counter Roy. He is more unusable than Bowser at this point. Dj Nintendo has even shown that Bowser is playable. People have tried playing Roy, and have given up in the process.

 

[Divinokage]

Ness should not be in the "Leave them alone tier." He has a lot of potential, as does Yoshi, which is why Yoshi is rising. The tier list is all about a character's potential, and Ness has tons of potential. Pichu and Kirby have pretty much no potential, and Bowser has only a little bit. But Ness can do so much bs.

I understand that he isn't a character to play when you first start playing, but that doesn't mean that a new player "should leave him alone."

When Ness goes up in the tiers, if it ever happens, I believe that Roy should take his place in the negligible tier. Because unlike ALL the other low tier characters, he is a clone of an S-tier, and therefore has a hefty amount of anti-metagame developed. Every step we take in learning how to counter Marth's bull**** is a step we take in learning how to counter Roy. He is more unusable than Bowser at this point. Dj Nintendo has even shown that Bowser is playable. People have tried playing Roy, and have given up in the process.

You pretty much said nothing about why you think Ness has potential along with Yoshi. Go on. At least it's been proven somewhat that Yoshi can do something in the right hands with his unique tools unlike any character. Ness however... lol.

If you rely on a feel that you think he has more potential then, that's where it ends. If not, prove it, simple.

 

[danieljosebatista]

Puff and Peach are way too low on this list

 

[HugS™]

Puff is fine, should possibly be lower than peach. All this hype over a character that that works mostly dependently on the mistakes of the opponent shouldn't have had the 3rd place honor to begin with. Still a strong, viable character though.

 

[stickmantankguy]

You pretty much said nothing about why you think Ness has potential along with Yoshi. Go on. At least it's been proven somewhat that Yoshi can do something in the right hands with his unique tools unlike any character. Ness however... lol.

If you rely on a feel that you think he has more potential then, that's where it ends. If not, prove it, simple.

Ness's DJC aerials allows for a very manipulative mindgame, due to how fast they seem to come out. Used in conjunction with his sweetspotted bair, his nair, his janky fair, or his uair, he can throw them out like it's nothing. The yoyo-glitch is also why Ness actually has potential. There aren't many who've gotten good at using the yoyo-glitch in high level play, but some have gotten there. Such as The Mofo, he is a crazy good Ness player, and if there is anyone who really understands Ness's potential, it's him. Ness's groundgame is poor, but a well timed tipper with the bat can really do some knockback.

Ness has a really unique style (and a **** recovery), which is why I compare him to Yoshi, and that is also why I believe that Roy is worse.
Sorry about that last post. I felt more compelled to explain my reasoning for Roy's inevitable decline than my reasoning for Ness's potential.

(I've also read things about the super yoyo-glitch and teleporting but I haven't been able to find anything about that)

 

[TheBakonBitz]

Someone please explain why this tier list isn't a bunch of crap. All of your so called top tier characters are the top 8 in Evo. Seems like you people just take the winners from the most recent tournament and slap it on a word document.

 

[pidgezero_one]

I thought that was how you were supposed to do it

 

[Circa]

When Ness goes up in the tiers, if it ever happens, I believe that Roy should take his place in the negligible tier. Because unlike ALL the other low tier characters, he is a clone of an S-tier, and therefore has a hefty amount of anti-metagame developed. Every step we take in learning how to counter Marth's bull**** is a step we take in learning how to counter Roy. He is more unusable than Bowser at this point. Dj Nintendo has even shown that Bowser is playable. People have tried playing Roy, and have given up in the process.

Your logic on Roy going lower doesn't really make sense, actually. Having similar hitboxes on all your moves =/= being the same as your clone. Nearly everything about them outside of their hitboxes are different, and this makes the two of them play in very different ways.

Your argument about Roy also collapses when you think about the fact that Marth has been a dominant character since this game started being played competitively, and as such we technically would have had Roy's metagame pretty much figured out and countered years ago. If this were the case, then Roy would have been garbage tier a long time ago.

Despite what I stated previously about AZ dropping Roy and what that could mean, I don't actually think he's complete ass tier. Just thought I'd point that out. I think Roy's biggest problem is just that he hasn't had anyone truly dedicated to pushing what he can do in quite some time. This is actually a problem with a lot of low tiers.

I don't agree that Ness should be higher (it's yet to be proven by anyone that he deserves better placement), but I do agree that he shouldn't be in the "Don't touch this" tier. That ranking should only exist for Pichu and Kirby if you ask me.

 

[Mogwai]

Someone please explain why this tier list isn't a bunch of crap. All of your so called top tier characters are the top 8 in Evo. Seems like you people just take the winners from the most recent tournament and slap it on a word document.

Yea, it sure seems to be a huge contradiction to me too. A tier list is trying to list the best characters in the game, so why the girl would people using the best characters in the game be the same ones doing well at a tournament!? That doesn't make any sense. Pure logical fallacy right there, shut it down Sveet, reason has defeated your attempts to brainwash the community.

 

[stickmantankguy]

Someone please explain why this tier list isn't a bunch of crap. All of your so called top tier characters are the top 8 in Evo. Seems like you people just take the winners from the most recent tournament and slap it on a word document.

Let me start by saying Mango won EVO 2013. Mango is the best fox in the world by far. But Mango is NOT the reason why fox is #1 on the tier list. He is the reason why fox should stay #1 on the tier list. The Tier list is all about the potential of a character and how well he or she could do in the competitive environment. Lot's of people still think that Shiek and Marth should be the top because of their "spammy" attributes. Just because they're easy on a lower level of play, doesn't mean they're the best. Fox and Falco, albeit the best characters in the game, require plenty skill to play well. Trust us when we say that the Tier list is a reliable one. I for one would make some tweaks to the bottom and mid area of the list, just because of my opinions on some characters and how the play and blah blah blah.

tl:dr
The list is based on the amount of potential each character holds in tournament play.
Hope I helped!

 

[stickmantankguy]

Your logic on Roy going lower doesn't really make sense, actually. Having similar hitboxes on all your moves =/= being the same as your clone. Nearly everything about them outside of their hitboxes are different, and this makes the two of them play in very different ways.

Your argument about Roy also collapses when you think about the fact that Marth has been a dominant character since this game started being played competitively, and as such we technically would have had Roy's metagame pretty much figured out and countered years ago. If this were the case, then Roy would have been garbage tier a long time ago.

Despite what I stated previously about AZ dropping Roy and what that could mean, I don't actually think he's complete *** tier. Just thought I'd point that out. I think Roy's biggest problem is just that he hasn't had anyone truly dedicated to pushing what he can do in quite some time. This is actually a problem with a lot of low tiers.

I don't agree that Ness should be higher (it's yet to be proven by anyone that he deserves better placement), but I do agree that he shouldn't be in the "Don't touch this" tier. That ranking should only exist for Pichu and Kirby if you ask me.

Well put. Perhaps I may just be a litttttle bit biased towards Ness :D
We need more low tier mains!

EDIT: oh jeez I didn't mean to double post ;_;

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

But doesn't that make the segmentation sort of arbitrary? I understand what you're saying, but it seems sort of against the notion of a tierlist in the first place. Perhaps the best compromise is to make subtiers? Like S+ is Fox/Falco, S is Sheik, Marth, Puff, Peach, S- is CF, ICs. That way would be more numerically representative, while allowing newer players to easily determine which characters are viable or not.

Keep in mind that tier lists are mostly arbitrary to begin with. The point is to express a certain amount of information about the competitive metagame quickly and effectively. Adding more tiers would satisfy the statisticians, but ultimately it would serve to confuse the target audience. If you have the capability to read deeper into the data, feel free. If youre interested in other things (standard devations, etc) pm me (this goes for anybody)

 

[TheBakonBitz]

He is the reason why fox should stay #1 on the tier list.
The Tier list is all about the potential of a character and how well he or she could do in the competitive environment.
The list is based on the amount of potential each character holds in tournament play.
Trust us when we say that the Tier list is a reliable one.

So it's based all on the latest tournament and nothing else. Thanks for backing up what I just said when I stated it's a bunch of garbage.

 

[MaNg0]

I hate these tier list things

The tier list is

Mango armada m2k pp = any character they choose to play

hboxs puff


All the characters that are above Dr have all the tools to win and lots of weaknesses

Just because its harder to win with some of the characters shouldnt affect how good of

a character of it is. If the tools they have to win are there then they can make it happen

regardless of difficulty. I prob have the most experience playing a lot of the top tiers. Ive

had moments with each top tier where im like omg how does this character lose. and ive had moments

wheres its like oh yeah thats why.EVEN WITH FALCON ( falcon is broken all the falcons just suck

LMAOOO except s2j <3 ) Ive even been playing peach to understand her better

as a character and shes amazing. THEYRE ALL AMAZING BECAUSE MELEE IS AMAZING

 

[Osennecho]

I'm waiting for M2K to unleash his salt, but he may be so salty he can't even enter the thread.

 

[Silent Wolf]

Peach above jiggs. Yoshi above dk.

 

[CloneHat]

Loving this