Official 1.1.6 Patch Notes/Patch Discussion

[illSTEEZ]

TL wasnt changed.

I rate your trolling a 2/10. Try a little harder next time.

Toon Link now has a up throw like Link now, at 0% Toon Link now can up throw to up tilt or up smash confirm.

Toon Link's bombs have less knock back now. So no more bomb to n-air confirms at 0%. (Which can be effected for J.C. Glide Toss' and normal bomb throws)

Still are able to get true follow ups with aerials but now have to be more patient.

Confirm Example: From 1.1.5 if your opponent is at 105%+, you had to full hop to get a true f-air follow up. Now in 1.1.6 you can short hop and still get the confirm f-air follow up.

 

[Ghidorah14]

Toon Link now has a up throw like Link now, at 0% Toon Link now can up throw to up tilt or up smash confirm.

Toon Link's bombs have less knock back now. So no more bomb to n-air confirms at 0%. (Which can be effected for J.C. Glide Toss' and normal bomb throws)

Still are able to get true follow ups with aerials but now have to be more patient.

Confirm Example: From 1.1.5 if your opponent is at 105%+, you had to full hop to get a true f-air follow up. Now in 1.1.6 you can short hop and still get the confirm f-air follow up.

If his upthrow was changed to be like link's, then that would make it a kill throw. But you claim its a combo throw.

Also, it's amazing that you provided so little information in your initial post (being pretty vague and leaving us to go and confirm your claims), but suddenly you have all this info to dump on us.

Something worth noting is how there is no 1.1.6 patch discussion topic in the TL boards, nor is there any mention of a change in the TL social.

Again, try harder on the whole trolling thing.

 

[illSTEEZ]

If his upthrow was changed to be like link's, then that would make it a kill throw. But you claim its a combo throw.

Also, it's amazing that you provided so little information in your initial post (being pretty vague and leaving us to go and confirm your claims), but suddenly you have all this info to dump on us.

Something worth noting is how there is no 1.1.6 patch discussion topic in the TL boards, nor is there any mention of a change in the TL social.

Again, try harder on the whole trolling thing.

Don't be so harsh, i'm just trying to help out with what i thought got truely changed. Was not trolling. First time even doing this.

 

[Ghidorah14]

Don't be so harsh, i'm just trying to help out with what i thought got truely changed. Was not trolling. First time even doing this.

Didnt you read the OP and rules?

http://smashboards.com/threads/1-1-...st-post-before-replying.436806/#post-21182399

 

[illSTEEZ]

Didnt you read the OP and rules?

http://smashboards.com/threads/1-1-...st-post-before-replying.436806/#post-21182399

Like i said im new to this, i guess it flew by. Sorry. :/

 

[Dawn111]

I don't play Bayonetta, but seeming how she got nerfed so badly, is she in the top 20 list anymore, if even viable? I'm just curious.

 

[Byzantium97]

I don't play Bayonetta, but seeming how she got nerfed so badly, is she in the top 20 list anymore, if even viable? I'm just curious.

Yes, Bayonetta is still viable. And I'm sure she'll still be in the top 20 too, but likely in high tier or high-mid rather than being a top tier like before. A couple of nerfs, though extreme, aren't going to render a character useless. Sheik and Diddy have been heavily nerfed and are still performing well in tournaments. This isn't the last we'll see of Bayonetta.

 

[RedMarf78]

I don't play Bayonetta, but seeming how she got nerfed so badly, is she in the top 20 list anymore, if even viable? I'm just curious.

The patch has only been out for like 2 days so it way too early to make definite placements of Bayonetta. That said I don't think the nerfs will make her drop below top 20; she'll probably be below top 10 but remain a relevant high tier.

 

[Flawed]

Comparing her to shiek is a bit silly
Shiek went from being able to out camp link to not being able to out camp link

This character lost most of her combo ability and still suffers from the penalty of attempting combos. She lost 90% of the utility of a move, and gained nothing.

I think the penalty should be removed, seeing as gods of SDI land on the ground during witch twist 1, etc.


On the other hand, ive killed many players on FG with dive kick combos- further proving that many players never had a clue on how to deal with anything

 

[EK|Omen]

Thanks to this, Bayonetta was lowered to nothing but basura ('garbage' for those who don't know Spanish), and way more characters have had different matchup statistics due to this.

 

[Dawn111]

Yes, Bayonetta is still viable. And I'm sure she'll still be in the top 20 too, but likely in high tier or high-mid rather than being a top tier like before. A couple of nerfs, though extreme, aren't going to render a character useless. Sheik and Diddy have been heavily nerfed and are still performing well in tournaments. This isn't the last we'll see of Bayonetta.

The patch has only been out for like 2 days so it way too early to make definite placements of Bayonetta. That said I don't think the nerfs will make her drop below top 20; she'll probably be below top 10 but remain a relevant high tier.

I see. Thank you so much, guys. I still have problems fighting against her, even though she has been severely nerfed.

 

[Flamegeyser]

I'm no good at finding things, I'll leave it to the pro players to decide if she has potential (not that I won't try I just won't succeed lol). The nerfs are far more severe than Sheik's or Luigi's in my opinion. It's like instead of nerfing Luigi's dthrow combo options, he just couldn't dthrow at all. But that's only a day 2 impression, we've got lots more to learn. The problem now is that it appears as if ZSS outclasses us in every single way, I'm having a hard time finding reasons to use Bayo over ZSS for any reason other than familiarity and preference.

 

[ARGHETH]

The problem now is that it appears as if ZSS outclasses us in every single way, I'm having a hard time finding reasons to use Bayo over ZSS for any reason other than familiarity and preference.

Better zoning projectile, F4 OOS UpB that hits on both sides and doesn't leave her in helpless, Witch Time, better Dtilt, stock cap kill throw, non-tether grab....
There's reasons. Whether or not they're worth it is your own opinion.

 

[Flamegeyser]

Better zoning projectile, F4 OOS UpB that hits on both sides and doesn't leave her in helpless, Witch Time, better Dtilt, stock cap kill throw, non-tether grab....
There's reasons. Whether or not they're worth it is your own opinion.

Fair points, but you're right, they're hardly worth it. Bayo also has better edgeguarding I'd argue, so there's also that. Still, it's no contest right now, ZSS almost completely outclasses Bayo.

 

[Sliquify_Cheeze]

Well, let's admit it, at least Bayo takes more skill to play now.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Preliminary training mode experimentation tells me that, on paper, Bayonetta still has combos. Their ultimate effectiveness remains to be seen based on how effective DI/SDI is and how consistently players can apply it in actual matches. At the very least, even if SDI ****s over Twist in the worst way possible, consistently doing so in response to a frame 4 OOS option is a tall order that I doubt anyone can actually achieve, and ABK combos still exist and can net her a comfortable 20-30% depending on her initial confirm and if she can finish it off with an aerial. And poor DI can be punished with extended combo hits such as a full fair 1-2-3 string.

The DI/SDI will be the biggest factor in her overall effectiveness, I feel, including mixups and her responses to them. For instance, after a Twist > ABK at mid %, she can either finish it early with an aerial like bair, go for a second ABK, or do a b-reverse Twist 2. I imagine the proper response to each will be different. Twist 2 would be the trump since that puts her closer to the top and just nets her more damage overall, but she has a bit of wiggle room to get in the opponent's head, in theory.

 

[HimaBook]

Witch Twist:

• All Hitboxes SDI Multiplier: 1 -> 2
• Early Middle Hit:
  • Upper Hitbox:
    • KBG: 100 -> 97
    • WKB: 160 -> 140
    • Hitbox Y Position: 24 -> 21
  • Both Hitbox Sizes: 8 -> 7
• Middle Middle Hit:
  • Upper Hitbox Y Position: 24 -> 21
  • Both Hitbox Sizes: 8 -> 7
• Late Middle Hit:
  • Upper Hitbox Y Position: 24 -> 21
  • Lower Hitbox WKB: 160 -> 135
  • Both Hitbox Sizes: 8 -> 7

About Witch Twist middle hit, upper hitbox & lower hitbox is reversed. For example, "Y Position: 24 -> 21" is not change of upper hitbox, but lower hitbox.

*By seeing Ypos, we can know which is upper and which is lower.

Spoiler: Middle Hitbox diff

Left is 1.1.5, right is 1.1.6

And about early middle Hit, KBG isn't changed. But angle is changed from 100 to 97.

So change of 1.1.6 is as below.

Spoiler: Change of Witch Twist Middle Hitbox

• Early Middle Hit:
  
  • Lower Hitbox:
    • Angle: 100 -> 97
    • WKB: 160 -> 140
    • Hitbox Y Position: 24 -> 21
  • Both Hitbox Sizes: 8 -> 7
• Middle Middle Hit:
  
  • Lower Hitbox Y Position: 24 -> 21
  • Both Hitbox Sizes: 8 -> 7
• Late Middle Hit:
  
  • Upper Hitbox WKB: 160 -> 135
  • Lower Hitbox Y Position: 24 -> 21
  • Both Hitbox Sizes: 8 -> 7

 

[LancerStaff]

At the very least, even if SDI ****s over Twist in the worst way possible, consistently doing so in response to a frame 4 OOS option is a tall order that I doubt anyone can actually achieve...

1. Throw out unsafe move
2. Preemptively SDI away
3a. Fall out of Witch Twist
3b. Dash away before she punishes with something else
4. ???
5. Profit

 

[Vipermoon]

1. Throw out unsafe move
2. Preemptively SDI away
3a. Fall out of Witch Twist
3b. Dash away before she punishes with something else
4. ???
5. Profit

3b. Punish her landing lag

 

[LancerStaff]

3b. Punish her landing lag

I was saying if she tried punishing with anything else you'd dash away because of your mashing.

Darned if she does, darned if she don't.

 

[Someperson8760]

You guys can shut up now https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUJ7ByPAh3I She does still have combos. Competitive Play here to shut everything down like always. <3

 

[Swamp Sensei]

You guys can shut up now https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUJ7ByPAh3I She does still have combos. Competitive Play here to shut everything down like always. <3

The didn't Smash DI at all.

 

[Someperson8760]

The didn't Smash DI at all.

So? She still got combos and is fine. You guys are over exaggerating. Just like with Shiek. Diddy. Zero Suit.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So?

With Smash DI those combos stop existing.

At a higher level, those combos won't work at all.

 

[EK|Omen]

Jeez, wonder when the new tier list is gonna come out. Name picks right now. Who you think is gonna shoot up the ranks?

 

[Someperson8760]

With Smash DI those combos stop existing.

At a higher level, those combos won't work at all.

By that logic pre-patch Bayonetta had no combos.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

By that logic pre-patch Bayonetta had no combos.

Except she had practically inescapable ones.

This Bayo has combos that can be escaped by anyone who know how to Smash DI.

 

[Someperson8760]

Except she had practically inescapable ones.

This Bayo has combos that can be escaped by anyone who know how to Smash DI.

And that's the same thing for Pre-Bayonetta! Have you SEEN any other how to beat pre-patch Bayonetta videos? They even say her combos were di-able before the patch. They just made them more easy to DI out of. End of discussion.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

And that's the same thing for Pre-Bayonetta! Have you SEEN any other how to beat pre-patch Bayonetta videos? They even say her combos were di-able before the patch. They just made them more easy to DI out of. End of discussion.

But they did it to the point of worthlessness.

 

[RedMarf78]

And that's the same thing for Pre-Bayonetta! Have you SEEN any other how to beat pre-patch Bayonetta videos? They even say her combos were di-able before the patch. They just made them more easy to DI out of. End of discussion.

They added SDI multipliers to her moves, it was possible to SDI to avoid WT2 to up air before the patch. In 1.1.6 it is possible to SDI so you fall out of any variation witch twist entirely. Even if you're not ready to SDI WT1 a competent player will ALWAYS SDI out of WT2.

 

[Jamesibell]

Bayonetta wasn't the only one changed. Just an example of this is that I found that Lucario's back throw is now a kill throw. I'm not sure how much by, but surely that's enough to prompt people to check other characters

Edit: Was just Aura, my mistake

 

[Someperson8760]

But they did it to the point of worthlessness.

Not really. They're just less ridiculous.

 

[ARGHETH]

Bayonetta wasn't the only one changed. Just an example of this is that I found that Lucario's back throw is now a kill throw. I'm not sure how much by, but surely that's enough to prompt people to check other characters

Any proof? At all? Because placebos are very, very, common, and basically everyone trustworthy in regards to data mining has said that only one character's been changed.

 

[Meshima]

shrooby , @Dantarion
From our research and diff, OP should be like this.

Spoiler: OP

Dtilt:

• Hitbox Size: 3.5 -> 2.8
• FAF: 26F -> 27F

Fair:

• First Hit Damage: 3.8 -> 3
• Second Hit Damage: 2.8% -> 2.2%
• Third Hit:
  • KBG: 82 -> 68
  • Autocancel Frame: 32F> -> 33F> 35F>
  • FAF: 36 -> 37 40F

Dair Landing Hit KBG: 140 -> 135

After Burner Kick:

• Upwards Kick:
  • All Hitboxes SDI Multiplier: 1 -> 2
  • Early Hit KBG: 40 -> 50
  • Normal Hit KBG: 30 -> 38
  • Late Hit KBG: 100 -> 112
• Divekick:
  • Damage: 8% -> 6.5%
  • Angle: 80° -> 60°
  • Hitbox Size: 6.5 -> 4.5
  • SDI Multiplier: 1 -> 2

Witch Twist:

• All Hitboxes SDI Multiplier: 1 -> 2
• Early Middle Hit:
  • Upper Lower Hitbox:
    • KBG Angle: 100 -> 97
    • WKB: 160 -> 140
    • Hitbox Y Position: 24 -> 21
  • Both Hitbox Sizes: 8 -> 7
• Middle Middle Hit:
  • Upper Hitbox Y Position: 24 -> 21
  • Both Lower Hitbox Sizes: 8 -> 7
• Late Middle Hit:
  • Upper Hitbox Y Position: 24 -> 21
  • Lower Upper Hitbox WKB: 160 -> 135
  • Both Lower Hitbox Sizes: 8 -> 7
• Last Hit (First Use):
  • KBG: 105 -> 80
  • BKB: 50 -> 55
  • Hitbox Size: 9 -> 8.5
  • Hitbox Y Position: 20 -> 19
• Last Hit (Second Use):
  • KBG: 30 -> 50
  • Hitbox Size: 9 -> 8.5
  • Hitbox Y Position: 20 -> 19

 

[RealDeadPixel]

Lol the salty Bayonetta "mains" complaining about the nerf. "Oh gee Bayonetta now takes skill to play I'm mad."

 

[EK|Omen]

Lol the salty Bayonetta "mains" complaining about the nerf. "Oh gee Bayonetta now takes skill to play I'm mad > "

Don't even get me started. Last night I ran into a bunch of Bayos and they bombed my Twitter (I left the link in my NN profile page on the desktop format of the page) with **** that I play broken characters. (And Ryu is HARDLY broken. I played all 20 of those matches with him and went 19-1) (Now, I invited these people to casuals afterward, and smoked them all with Mii Brawler, of ALL CHARACTERS)

 

[Flamegeyser]

That awkward moment when anti-bayo smashers don't realize the irony of continually ******** about her even after she's nerfed.

Did she take any more skill than Cloud? It's easy to forget that he had nearly the same amount of results in the same period of time despite people having 2 more months to learn the matchups. Bayo needed some nerfs, sure, but neutering her main combo tools was probably going too far.

 

[Funbot28]

I can definitely see Ryu as the next target of complaining and hate towards (besides Rosa who will always unfortunately be hated for who knows what reason...). Up-Tilt to Shoruken has been shown to be a very deadly combo and the overall strength and combo potential he has makes him a very likely target. It does kinda amaze me that he has never been touched by the nerf hammer (although I am not saying I want him to, just made an observation).

 

[GameCrash]

Nothing.

Oh

 

[shrooby]

shrooby , @Dantarion
From our research and diff, OP should be like this.

Spoiler: OP

Dtilt:

• Hitbox Size: 3.5 -> 2.8
• FAF: 26F -> 27F

Fair:

• First Hit Damage: 3.8 -> 3
• Second Hit Damage: 2.8% -> 2.2%
• Third Hit:
  • KBG: 82 -> 68
  • Autocancel Frame: 32F> -> 33F> 35F>
  • FAF: 36 -> 37 40F

Dair Landing Hit KBG: 140 -> 135

After Burner Kick:

• Upwards Kick:
  • All Hitboxes SDI Multiplier: 1 -> 2
  • Early Hit KBG: 40 -> 50
  • Normal Hit KBG: 30 -> 38
  • Late Hit KBG: 100 -> 112
• Divekick:
  • Damage: 8% -> 6.5%
  • Angle: 80° -> 60°
  • Hitbox Size: 6.5 -> 4.5
  • SDI Multiplier: 1 -> 2

Witch Twist:

• All Hitboxes SDI Multiplier: 1 -> 2
• Early Middle Hit:
  • Upper Lower Hitbox:
    • KBG Angle: 100 -> 97
    • WKB: 160 -> 140
    • Hitbox Y Position: 24 -> 21
  • Both Hitbox Sizes: 8 -> 7
• Middle Middle Hit:
  • Upper Hitbox Y Position: 24 -> 21
  • Both Lower Hitbox Sizes: 8 -> 7
• Late Middle Hit:
  • Upper Hitbox Y Position: 24 -> 21
  • Lower Upper Hitbox WKB: 160 -> 135
  • Both Lower Hitbox Sizes: 8 -> 7
• Last Hit (First Use):
  • KBG: 105 -> 80
  • BKB: 50 -> 55
  • Hitbox Size: 9 -> 8.5
  • Hitbox Y Position: 20 -> 19
• Last Hit (Second Use):
  • KBG: 30 -> 50
  • Hitbox Size: 9 -> 8.5
  • Hitbox Y Position: 20 -> 19

Good stuff. OP has been edited accordingly.