1.1.3 Patch Notes Discussion

[Luig]

Wait did Bowser's Up-Throw just get ridiculously strong all of sudden? Those numbers look kinda ridiculous.

I explained it in the Bowser thread.

Remember guys, (I just wanted to drop by here because one of my friends mains bowser)
Damage has a big role in knockback.
For example, Link's up throw has a staggering 230 kbg (and 90BKB) on the last hit, much more than zard's up throw or Ness's bthrow.
However, since the launching hit only deals 3% damage, it does less knockback than those 2 examples, while still being a kill throw at around 160%.

So I'm not too sure about bowser's uthrow....

It probably won't kill, but this should give him a deadly combo throw.

 

[KakuCP9]

Question. How much does Knockback growth have to increase/decreased to have a noticable effect on KO power?

 

[FullMoon]

I explained it in the Bowser thread.

It probably won't kill, but this should give him a deadly combo throw.

It does less knockback than the old numbers until close to 250%, though it is at a steeper angle.

Ah yeah, I forgot that Bowser's Up-Throw is a multi-hit one.

 

[Luig]

Question. How much does Knockback growth have to increase/decreased to have a noticable effect on KO power?

It depends on the damage.
For example, a KBG increase on a 22% attack will matter more than on a 2% attack, so It's hard to pinpoint....

 

[Jterr]

I really would like good buffs to Marth. I'm talking about pretty solid improvements like Ike and Link received a few patches ago. Sakurai plz come through

 

[Locke 06]

Not reading, because spoilers, but letting the community know that I'm at work & have plans tonight so I won't be hands on with the patch until Wednesday night. Will try and help out after I watch the direct tonight.

Good luck, everyone.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Lucas having a grab with that frame data seems ridiculous but....
his tether is actually really short compared to other Tether grabs. So what's ended up happening if this is true is that Lucas has a DECENT/ABOVE AVERAGE grab now!

That's pretty cool!

 

[S_B]

Thanks so much for datamining this, folks!

Watching these notes come out is more exciting than watching the superbowl, world series and stanley cup all being played at the same time...in the same field, right on top of each other.

 

[WD40]

1. it's difficult to tell
2. no and it's not easy to explain

Hmm, well I'd like to know what the term means. Is it a smash specific thing or a general fighting game term?

 

[Thinkaman]

Again, it's unlikely that Lucas's grab endlag is actually that short. We'll see what it is.

 

[Jterr]

Let's see if Mewtwo gains some weight in the next patch. He shouldn't be that light. In Pokemon it weighs 269 lbs lol but in Smash? Featherweight

 

[TTTTTsd]

Mewtwo changes look okay but they don't address a ton of core problems.

That being said his Dair looks solid now and Fair looks nicer too. That's cool!

 

[BananaJob307]

When you do update the character list for 100%, I was wondering what order you will be going in. Maybe you could start with low tier characters like Zelda? ???

Really disappointed Sakurai didn't do anything with her like he did with the other low tier characters... v_v.. her and Samus were robbed of buffs.

Let's see if Mewtwo gains some weight in the next patch. He shouldn't be that light. In Pokemon it weighs 269 lbs lol but in Smash? Featherweight

In Pokemon it likely measures his weight if he was in a coma without using his psychic ability. In Smash he is constantly floating with his Psychic ability. Makes sense why he's lighter.

 

[Ffamran]

Lucas having a grab with that frame data seems ridiculous but....
his tether is actually really short compared to other Tether grabs. So what's ended up happening if this is true is that Lucas has a DECENT/ABOVE AVERAGE grab now!

That's pretty cool!

Wait... Is it really that short? I thought it was the same or just slightly shorter than Toon Link's. Then again, I don't own Lucas, so... I ask this since his grab and Zair are different lengths unlike other characters? I think it's the same length for other characters.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Wait... Is it really that short? I thought it was the same or just slightly shorter than Toon Link's. Then again, I don't own Lucas, so... I ask this since his grab and Zair are different lengths unlike other characters? I think it's the same length for other characters.

It's not as long as ZSS or Link's tether. It's not a BAD tether grab by any means but if they cut some lag off it I'd consider it fair. It's probably like Thinkaman said, not THAT much like the first post says. I think his Tether Grab is probably one of the less good ones before this patch.

basically cutting lag = Justified imo. We'll see.

 

[Thinkaman]

I found a line of code I missed; Bowser has a frame speed modifier on his u-throw. Like Lucas, it's hard to say exactly what this results in (since FAF data probably changed too), but in isolation his u-throw FAF is going from 68 to 61.

 

[Ffamran]

It's not as long as ZSS or Link's tether. It's not a BAD tether grab by any means but if they cut some lag off it I'd consider it fair. It's probably like Thinkaman said, not THAT much like the first post says.

But justified.

I know that, but Toon Link's grab is short compared to Link, Samus, and ZSS too and if Lucas's is the same as Toon Link's... Yeah...

 

[TTTTTsd]

I know that, but Toon Link's grab is short compared to Link, Samus, and ZSS too and if Lucas's is the same as Toon Link's... Yeah...

Tink has a better neutral than Lucas by far though. Like, the reason it's justified is because Lucas is a lot more grab oriented than Toon Link and he's very much weighed down by the fact that his old grab was just...not good.

Again we have no idea on the exact data but I think it could use the improvements regardless.

 

[Quickhero]

" Lucario

• Neutral Special 1/2/3
  • (Normal only) Angle 80 -> 83"
    

Is this a buff or a nerf? Is this just for the Aura Sphere hitboxes to make sense at higher percents? I know I missed a few hits that seemed like it would hit in the previous patch, is this some sort of fix?

 

[Thinkaman]

I'm 99% sure that is just a fix to the charge shield-lockdown behavior.

 

[Quickhero]

I'm 99% sure that is just a fix to the charge shield-lockdown behavior.

Wait, so does this mean they changed the charge??? I thought that was the changing of the blast itself.

If this is the charge then....I hope ASCUS still works. ;__;

 

[LancerStaff]

Dark Pit buffs eh? Electroshock should be killing much sooner if I'm reading it right. Touched up everything knockback related... Now does a full point of damage more then Pit's instead of a half point, higher growth, lower angle, and a point or two less in base knockback (depending if it's the air or ground version) to compensate.

Can somebody tag me if we find out more Pit stuff?

 

[Luig]

Cloud got the best buff of all


But really, this patch looks like a buff party.
And I am okay with that.
I'm really happy for that Lucas grab...

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I'm sure it's ugly and raw, but is there an easy way to look at Cloud's file?

 

[Syde7]

Interesting stuff. Shoutouts to all the folks puttin' in work to get this data out there.


Am I correct in assuming that either:

• A) The remaining 50% of information, including FAF/landing lags/startup and all that jazz isn't able to be obtained from what has been accessible thus far, and will be completed once the update is launched?
  
  or
  
  
• B) That the remaining 50% just takes significantly longer to sift through to draw out the pertinent information?

Thx in advance.

 

[SaltyKracka]

So G-dorf gets...more Nair changes, meaningless super armor, and a Dsmash that might be less clowny with the directions it sends people.

Yeah, this is going to do all of nothing about his competitive standing.

 

[LancerStaff]

I'm sure it's ugly and raw, but is there an easy way to look at Cloud's file?

I was hearing he didn't have any so the little incident from last time wouldn't happen again...

 

[S_B]

Cloud got the best buff of all

Hey, not being in the game might actually be better for his frame data. You never know!

Also, very happy to see a range of characters getting buffs this time around, especially a number who need it.

I don't even play DHD but I'm hoping they buff his smashes to actually chain together properly for a change...

 

[BJN39]

Again, it's unlikely that Lucas's grab endlag is actually that short. We'll see what it is.

I'm hoping so,


Because those numbers are on par with Zelda's grab durations lmao. Screw startup, Zelda's standing grab should not have 25F of endlag while Lucas sits pretty at 20F or less.

 

[Vipermoon]

I mean, it's mostly a smash attack kbg buff party. As someone who thinks smash attacks are too powerful in this game, I don't like that.

But who knows, maybe rage is weaker?

 

[Kofu]

I mean, it's mostly a smash attack kbg buff party. As someone who thinks smash attacks are too powerful in this game, I don't like that.

Says the Marth main.

If the Ganon NAir change means what I think it does, it'll no longer be good for leading into other attacks but its damage output and KO ability will be greatly increased.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Lucas looking real as **** now. Mewtwo gonna like that d-throw buff and utilt buff. Might actually mess with him now.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Lucas looking real as **** now. Mewtwo gonna like that d-throw buff and utilt buff. Might actually mess with him now.

I believe it was Uair. And the Dthrow is uncertain sadly... It might still be bad...

I don't think it was the flight angle that was the problem as much as the hitstun and FAF...

 

[S_B]

Lucas looking real as **** now. Mewtwo gonna like that d-throw buff and utilt buff. Might actually mess with him now.

Wouldn't it make more sense to NOT mess with MewTwo now?

And we're thinking of calling Bowser's new "hoo-haa" the "spin to win", since he spins with Uthrow, then whacks people into the stratosphere for the win...

 

[Vipermoon]

Says the Marth main.

If the Ganon NAir change means what I think it does, it'll no longer be good for leading into other attacks but its damage output and KO ability will be greatly increased.

What you think I like that fact that Marth and every other sword character is a laggy berserker?

 

[Furret]

Let's see if Mewtwo gains some weight in the next patch. He shouldn't be that light. In Pokemon it weighs 269 lbs lol but in Smash? Featherweight

changes to attributes such as weight/falling speed/run speed are rare

Am I correct in assuming that either:

• A) The remaining 50% of information, including FAF/landing lags/startup and all that jazz isn't able to be obtained from what has been accessible thus far, and will be completed once the update is launched?
  
  or
  
  
• B) That the remaining 50% just takes significantly longer to sift through to draw out the pertinent information?

from my knowledge a lot of that information can't be simply accessed from just reading the files
in other words option A unless they are able to apply the patch and play with it.

Hmm, well I'd like to know what the term means. Is it a smash specific thing or a general fighting game term?

if i am remembering things correctly
a state can refer to any number of things, there are normal states such as standing grounded, air borne, running, charging a smash, special fall. These would be examples of states everyone has.
Then you can have things like character specific states for someone like say sonic when he uses up special he goes into a state where he can still use aerials, but no longer is able to use special moves.
so overall if 1 random state had 1 random change in it, it can be really hard to tell. could be anything to something that doesn't effect gameplay to special fall landing lag.

 

[C0rvus]

Pretty sure Cloud had a frame 7 jab, but I could be reading this wrong.

If this is true, that is very bad. Very very bad.

 

[TTTTTsd]

If this is true, that is very bad. Very very bad.

It's all in the recovery time dudeski. I'm not gonna call it anything until we know what the FAF is. Bowser's jab is amazing because of its AWESOME FAF and damage.

Let's not assume anything.

 

[Hazzuh]

Even if he has a bad jab you need to judge it in the context of his other moves. No one cares if Diddy has a bad jab because his D-tilt makes up for it.

 

[Emblem Lord]

If this is true, that is very bad. Very very bad.

You..want the super human demigod with a sword bigger then a grown man to have a fast jab?

No, you THINK you want that.

You do NOT want that.