• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

1.1.3 Patch Notes Discussion

Aninymouse

3DS Surfer
Joined
Jan 21, 2007
Messages
2,570
Location
Akron, OH
3DS FC
3540-0120-0225
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet, as I saw Thinkaman Thinkaman mention he doesn't have all projectile data, but there are multiple people on the Mewtwo board who claim that fully charged Shadow Ball is larger than it was. Whether this is purely cosmetic, or whether the hitbox increased in size as well, no one has said.

Anyone care to test to see if it is true?

Thanks for the Christmas buffs, Sakurai and team.
 

godogod

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 11, 2014
Messages
643
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet, as I saw Thinkaman Thinkaman mention he doesn't have all projectile data, but there are multiple people on the Mewtwo board who claim that fully charged Shadow Ball is larger than it was. Whether this is purely cosmetic, or whether the hitbox increased in size as well, no one has said.

Anyone care to test to see if it is true?

Thanks for the Christmas buffs, Sakurai and team.
was literally about to post this. I haven't really noticed it myself(didn't play yesterday), but I was reading a few replies on gamefaqs and mewtwo smashboard.

Other than that.. I'm wondering about mewtwo's forward smash. You guys said hit box 0 was increased. What does that mean exactly? Does that mean his overall hitbox was increased or some initial start up hitbox for non charged forward smash increased? Thanks.
 
Last edited:

adom4

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 4, 2007
Messages
1,066
Location
Israel
NNID
adom15510
3DS FC
3179-6434-6692
was literally about to post this. I haven't really noticed it myself(didn't play yesterday), but I was reading a few replies on gamefaqs and mewtwo smashboard.

Other than that.. I'm wondering about mewtwo's forward smash. You guys said hit box 0 was increased. What does that mean exactly? Does that mean his overall hitbox was increased or some initial start up hitbox for non charged forward smash increased? Thanks.
The sourspot hitbox was increased, they did it to remove the blindspot it had upclose.
 

pikazz

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 6, 2009
Messages
1,868
Location
Sweden, Umeå (Currently in Seattle)
NNID
pikamaxi
in terms of FAF and endlags of Jr doesnt seem to be changed.
but I do want to know if Jr do got any attribute changes, he do feel "faster" in dash speed and need someone to confirm this
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet, as I saw Thinkaman Thinkaman mention he doesn't have all projectile data, but there are multiple people on the Mewtwo board who claim that fully charged Shadow Ball is larger than it was. Whether this is purely cosmetic, or whether the hitbox increased in size as well, no one has said.

Anyone care to test to see if it is true?

Thanks for the Christmas buffs, Sakurai and team.
it do look bigger and feels like it and many in the mewtwo board feels the same, but one of the reason why it doesnt show can be that they increased the model size of the Shadow Ball instead just for the hurtbox
 

Bowserboy3

Asking mum how to talk to a lady
Joined
Aug 10, 2015
Messages
1,842
Location
United Kingdom
NNID
Bowserboy3
I'll say this again. We can't test it this way, we don't know what characters changed plus we can't get exact numbers.

How do we normally get mobility numbers? Is it located somewhere in the game files?
Well I still have two versions of 3DS, one still on 1.1.2, and that is how I managed to confirm that Mewtwo was buffed in speed.

Having the two versions, you can then test if characters are the same speed across versions. For example, if I think that Mewtwo is as fast as Meta Knight now, I can double check Meta Knight on both 1.1.2 and 1.1.3, and if he is the same, I can then test Mewtwo against him (I hope you get my wording, but what I am getting at is it is still very possible to check the speeds if you have the two versions).
 

Aninymouse

3DS Surfer
Joined
Jan 21, 2007
Messages
2,570
Location
Akron, OH
3DS FC
3540-0120-0225
in terms of FAF and endlags of Jr doesnt seem to be changed.
but I do want to know if Jr do got any attribute changes, he do feel "faster" in dash speed and need someone to confirm this

it do look bigger and feels like it and many in the mewtwo board feels the same, but one of the reason why it doesnt show can be that they increased the model size of the Shadow Ball instead just for the hurtbox
Yes, this is why we should test it for hitbox changes. A purely cosmetic change is not important to serious play.
 

Darklink401

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 4, 2014
Messages
3,501
Location
Smashville
NNID
Yuki_Hirako
3DS FC
0731-5318-2530
Yes, this is why we should test it for hitbox changes. A purely cosmetic change is not important to serious play.
I don't think it's purely cosmetic, as I hung on the ledge as ZSS, fully charged shadow ball, and released. The very tip of the shadow ball hit and it counted as a hit.
 

Vipermoon

King Marth's most trusted advisor.
Joined
Jan 4, 2015
Messages
2,661
Location
PNW
Switch FC
SW-3371-7457-0227
:4charizard: Dash Attack total frames reduced, from 44 -> 39.
Hahahahaha. Bowser's DA gets nothing even though it's over 50 frames, it starts slower, he runs slower, and it does less damage.

Edit: LordWilliam1234 LordWilliam1234 wait can you check Bowser's please? This makes too little sense to the point where Bowser's had to be changed
 
Last edited:

Darklink401

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 4, 2014
Messages
3,501
Location
Smashville
NNID
Yuki_Hirako
3DS FC
0731-5318-2530
I tested Roy's speed (1.95) vs Charizard (2.00), and they are the exact same.

Wondering, I went to Sheik, almost identical running speed to charizard (2.016) and there is a notable "Sheik is getting further and further from Roy as they run"

Make of that what you will.
 

Vipermoon

King Marth's most trusted advisor.
Joined
Jan 4, 2015
Messages
2,661
Location
PNW
Switch FC
SW-3371-7457-0227
I tested Roy's speed (1.95) vs Charizard (2.00), and they are the exact same.

Wondering, I went to Sheik, almost identical running speed to charizard (2.016) and there is a notable "Sheik is getting further and further from Roy as they run"

Make of that what you will.
Well Roy came out after toomai's stuff so basically any DLC that isn't M2 is just a guess.

Well I still have two versions of 3DS, one still on 1.1.2, and that is how I managed to confirm that Mewtwo was buffed in speed.

Having the two versions, you can then test if characters are the same speed across versions. For example, if I think that Mewtwo is as fast as Meta Knight now, I can double check Meta Knight on both 1.1.2 and 1.1.3, and if he is the same, I can then test Mewtwo against him (I hope you get my wording, but what I am getting at is it is still very possible to check the speeds if you have the two versions).
I understand that but as you saw in the quoted post above, it's hard to notice small differences. That's why I said in another post that we could've missed a few very subtle mobility changes in previous patches.
 

Aninymouse

3DS Surfer
Joined
Jan 21, 2007
Messages
2,570
Location
Akron, OH
3DS FC
3540-0120-0225
I understand that but as you saw in the quoted post above, it's hard to notice small differences. That's why I said in another post that we could've missed a few very subtle mobility changes in previous patches.
Even if we missed it before... who cares? A change is a change, and it should be documented.
 

S_B

Too Drunk to Smash
Joined
Aug 11, 2006
Messages
3,977
Location
NH, Discord: SB#6077
Switch FC
SW 5369-1969-6280
Pretty sure that was coined the "Koo-Pah" within hours. Nonetheless, it's great to see Bowser with a kill confirm now.
We bounced a bunch of names around on the Bowser forums and Shell Shock was one of the earliest.

Regardless of what sticks, yeah, the confirm is DEFINITELY real as that Marth had no chance to escape this.
 

Ffamran

The Smooth Devil Mod
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
14,629
I tested Roy's speed (1.95) vs Charizard (2.00), and they are the exact same.

Wondering, I went to Sheik, almost identical running speed to charizard (2.016) and there is a notable "Sheik is getting further and further from Roy as they run"

Make of that what you will.
Wouldn't different initial dash speeds factor into this? It's why Falco starts off fast, but tapers off and matches Olimar's run. I'm going to assume Roy's initial dash speed is higher than Charizard's. Also, a 0.05 different probably won't be noticeable.
 

Vipermoon

King Marth's most trusted advisor.
Joined
Jan 4, 2015
Messages
2,661
Location
PNW
Switch FC
SW-3371-7457-0227
Wouldn't different initial dash speeds factor into this? It's why Falco starts off fast, but tapers off and matches Olimar's run. I'm going to assume Roy's initial dash speed is higher than Charizard's. Also, a 0.05 different probably won't be noticeable.
Last week I found Roy to have Marth's initial dash speed at 1.5.

Even if we missed it before... who cares? A change is a change, and it should be documented.
You're right. But what I'm trying to say is that since we can't actually tell the difference between subtle changes, it's hard to compare characters to each other in this patch because we don't know what's accurate. I don't have a solution I'm just making sure we all know the problem.
 
Last edited:

S_B

Too Drunk to Smash
Joined
Aug 11, 2006
Messages
3,977
Location
NH, Discord: SB#6077
Switch FC
SW 5369-1969-6280
Sheik, on the other hand, isn't held by these standards. It's already accepted that she doesn't lose any matchups, but rather goes even with a few top and high tiers. And the character weakness she was initially designed with - being unable to kill - really isn't there when you factor in her Dthrow > Uair mixup, offstage Bouncing Fish combos, and Vanish and Usmash traps. I would definitely say that Sheik's ability to kill is average, at worst. And when you tack that on to everything she already has going for her: one of the best neutral games, one of the best camping games, one of the best recoveries, and one of the best run away games, it can really be a mite overwhelming...
Agreed.

Sheik doesn't really have a disadvantaged state. Her recovery covers great distance, is very difficult to gimp, and anyone attempting to gimp it risks getting stage spiked for trying. Her neutral game speaks for itself.

Her traps may be somewhat tricky to setup, but her overwhelming offense also makes for an AMAZING defense so actually landing damage on Sheik is something most characters are going to struggle horribly with and in most cases they're not going to be able to get that confirm on Sheik before Sheik manages to get them with one of her traps.

I think ZSS could stand to have a bit more disadvantage in some areas, mainly in that her up+B is still too strong for what it is and Rosa could have some of her crazier hitboxes toned down (or Rosa herself should have next to no knockback power, it should all be in Luma), but Sheik is definitely the worst of the three.
 

Ffamran

The Smooth Devil Mod
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
14,629
Last week I found Roy to have Marth's initial dash speed at 1.5.



You're right. But what I'm trying to say is that since we can't actually tell the difference between subtle changes, it's hard to compare characters to each other in this patch because we don't know what's accurate. I don't have a solution I'm just making sure we all know the problem.
I checked Charizard's which is apparently 1: http://smashboards.com/threads/smash-4-running-walking-speed-rankings.371564/page-2#post-18647333. Toomai is the bomb! Wished he at least left us an idea of where to find stuff like this.

Anyway, that probably explains why Charizard and Roy end up seemingly running at similar speeds; it's even a 0.5 difference! Roy's dash speed is 1.5? ... That means... All the Fire Emblem... Screw it! I'm calling Corrin's dash speed as 1.5 while her run speed can be whatever the hell it wants to be. Also, finally noticed that Fox's dash speed is freaking insane at 2.4 which is just 0.216 off from his run speed of 2.184. Probably explains why he can slip by so fast with a dash.
 

Darklink401

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 4, 2014
Messages
3,501
Location
Smashville
NNID
Yuki_Hirako
3DS FC
0731-5318-2530
Wouldn't different initial dash speeds factor into this? It's why Falco starts off fast, but tapers off and matches Olimar's run. I'm going to assume Roy's initial dash speed is higher than Charizard's. Also, a 0.05 different probably won't be noticeable.
I didn't pay attention to their placements before or during initial dash, only until they were both running alongside each other, where both would be at top speed.

Also, as stated, Sheik's is almost identical to Charizard, but she had a notable difference.

I partially agree with this assessment. Low tiers are low tiers and will struggle to overcome matchups against the two best characters in the game and the very bizarre Rosalina.

However, I also believe that Sheik is a completely different beast from the other two. While I agree that all three are holding back low/mid tier viability to an extent, Sheik is holding back a LOT of viability on all tier levels, primarily due to how she's designed as a character.

My main gripe with Sheik that is not present with ZSS and Rosalina is that she doesn't have any inherent character weaknesses or losing matchups. ZSS, as I mentioned earlier, has a lousy grab, a really bad UpB recovery if you can force her to use it, and has problems against low crouchers. Rosalina, on the other hand, has a very easy to intercept recovery, and becomes no more than a mid tier character if you're efficient at picking off Luma. While yes, I will agree it's rather difficult to fully exploit their weaknesses, the fact remains that they ARE there for some level of counterplay to exist against them. And, within the realms of high/top tier land, those two do have a reasonable amount of matchups that they struggle with, and even lose.

Sheik, on the other hand, isn't held by these standards. It's already accepted that she doesn't lose any matchups, but rather goes even with a few top and high tiers. And the character weakness she was initially designed with - being unable to kill - really isn't there when you factor in her Dthrow > Uair mixup, offstage Bouncing Fish combos, and Vanish and Usmash traps. I would definitely say that Sheik's ability to kill is average, at worst. And when you tack that on to everything she already has going for her: one of the best neutral games, one of the best camping games, one of the best recoveries, and one of the best run away games, it can really be a mite overwhelming...

At the end of the day, the reason I want to see a character like ZSS on top is because she has her own inherent flaws. Even if it's difficult, it IS possible to play around her advantages and use what works against her. With Sheik on top, the climax of the metagame is literally "Pick Sheik, because nothing outright counters you" and that's the end of it. I am deeply worried about this conclusion occurring after the patches have ended, because I know this game has the potential to unlock a much larger world of depth.

It's literally just one step away.

(Also just putting the disclaimer out now, I DO NOT want to see Sheik nerfed because I struggle against her to some extent, because then I would want to see Kirby nerfed too and that's just silly. My reasoning is that I legitimately am concerned about her turning into a Brawl Meta Knight - although not as bad - where she just kind of just... turns into the metagame... if the patches have concluded and nothing has changed about her.)
How many Sheiks aside from Zero win tourneys tho?

In...I think Paragon? There wasn't even a Sheik in top 8, because Zero wasn't there.

And you're comparing her to meta knight? ^^''
 
Last edited:

Ffamran

The Smooth Devil Mod
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
14,629
I didn't pay attention to their placements before or during initial dash, only until they were both running alongside each other, where both would be at top speed.

Also, as stated, Sheik's is almost identical to Charizard, but she had a notable difference.
She also has a higher dash speed of 1.7 to Charizard's 1 and the really small difference between her 2.016 run speed to Charizard's 2... Eh, the intricacies of this game.

Other Sheik-related stuff: could the Sheik argument, whatever it is, stop? I feel like that should be taken to a PM or to the CCI thread. Please discuss the patch instead. Sheik not being affected is a patch thing, but I feel like it's - despite not reading any of it - being taken a bit too far?
 
Last edited:

Masonomace

Yeah Shulk, get stuck in!
Joined
Apr 10, 2010
Messages
4,622
Location
Independence, MO
NNID
Masonomace
I don't know Kirby's exact run speed value, but Monado Speed Kirby runs barely faster than Monado Speed Shulk. I never thought I'd see the day that Kirby would become the second fastest running character in the game through specific requirements. Still, you only get that opportunity with the Shulk MU or in Doubles. This is the Monado's power. . .

Good thing Decisive Speed Shulk's faster. .
 
Last edited:

Meshima

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 29, 2015
Messages
59
Location
Japan
I've forgotten to mention about Lucario's run speed, slightly increased.
  • Lucario's run speed(was 1.4847 in 1.1.2) is between GW(1.5264) and R.O.B.(1.564) now, seems to be around 1.54.
 

Thinkaman

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
6,535
Location
Madison, WI
NNID
Thinkaman
3DS FC
1504-5749-3616
I've been continually moving discussion unrelated to the patch to other threads over the last two days, yet people continue.

Infractions for off-topic chatter will be handed out without warning beyond this point.
 

Darklink401

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 4, 2014
Messages
3,501
Location
Smashville
NNID
Yuki_Hirako
3DS FC
0731-5318-2530
I've been continually moving discussion unrelated to the patch to other threads over the last two days, yet people continue.

Infractions for off-topic chatter will be handed out without warning beyond this point.
My apologies, got a bit carried away in the discussion ^^''

On topic, is the Lucario speed thing legit?

Cuz that'd be pretty cray.
 

Nysyr

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 5, 2014
Messages
288
My apologies, got a bit carried away in the discussion ^^''

On topic, is the Lucario speed thing legit?

Cuz that'd be pretty cray.
It's a thing, but extremely minor. Less than 7% in all cases I do believe. ACS hitstun was reduced so setups occur only at higher % now.

The notes are also entirely unclear if the hitstun is for Mega form or both or only regular.
 
Last edited:

S_B

Too Drunk to Smash
Joined
Aug 11, 2006
Messages
3,977
Location
NH, Discord: SB#6077
Switch FC
SW 5369-1969-6280
I've been continually moving discussion unrelated to the patch to other threads over the last two days, yet people continue.

Infractions for off-topic chatter will be handed out without warning beyond this point.
Sorry bout that.

On topic, what does it mean for D3 to have a "Facing Restriction added to descent and landing hitboxes"?
 
Last edited:

VPTurnip

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 3, 2015
Messages
156
Location
Animal Crossing: New Leaf
NNID
Turnip
3DS FC
0920-3141-8524
Aninymouse Aninymouse
Yeah, I didn't know that since I kind of dropped Kirby in Smash 4 in favor of Villager. But that's great it's back.

Also Kirby's run speed isn't increased by a lot, but it sure makes his neutral a lot better!
Wish they'd buff his air speed more, but this is a change I'm satisfied with.
 

Kaiyedy

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 4, 2015
Messages
53
If I remember correctly, Dacus used to be in smash 4? If that's right, but they patched it out, it's back. Found it when I was playing with mewtwo. =p
 
Last edited:

Thinkaman

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
6,535
Location
Madison, WI
NNID
Thinkaman
3DS FC
1504-5749-3616
I can deconfirm DACUS, unless my old hands have lost the magic touch.
 

jespoke

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 9, 2014
Messages
239
Location
Denmark
NNID
Jespoke
People claim DACUS being back every single patch. This is one that is gonna need some very solid evidence to prove

Edit: :4greninja:
 
Last edited:

Thinkaman

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
6,535
Location
Madison, WI
NNID
Thinkaman
3DS FC
1504-5749-3616
Did we ever get hard confirmation on Shadow Ball size changes one way or the other?
 

Masonomace

Yeah Shulk, get stuck in!
Joined
Apr 10, 2010
Messages
4,622
Location
Independence, MO
NNID
Masonomace
We could find out with platform grid unit heights from a custom stage? Nah not accurate enough. Oh hey, what if we had Mewtwo stand on the right end of the ledge on Castle Siege, & had a character standing on the left platform? Mewtwo's full charged Shadow Ball in 1.1.3 is barely reaching high enough when it waves up & down hits someone standing on that platform. If it absolutely cannot hit someone in 1.1.2 or any prior patch, then that could seal the deal?
 

Darklink401

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 4, 2014
Messages
3,501
Location
Smashville
NNID
Yuki_Hirako
3DS FC
0731-5318-2530
Had no idea up + Z = upsmash

Now DACUS makes sense.

Doesn't seem to be a thing tho

But I can confirm Villager's DIRTBUS and the Infinite Pocket Glitch are still in.
 
Top Bottom