1.0.8 Marth changes

[Freelance Spy]

Seen a lot of new true combos with this. Still unsafe, though... Wonder how it affects SH DB1 -> falling Nair -> Stuff? combos

Lotta Nair hit one combos actually work now, utilt and ftilt can even kill. Also, with proper spacing, how is Nair unsafe? I thought shield dropping took a bit to do, although I don't know where to find shield/dodge frame data...

 

[MOI-ARI]

Seen a lot of new true combos with this. Still unsafe, though... Wonder how it affects SH DB1 -> falling Nair -> Stuff? combos

Nair is great. Get outta 'ere! loljk but its fine.

Sh DB> FF Nair was the first thing i tried xD... Sadly still isnt a true combo. But maybe a tighter string to Upb, Dtilt,Jabs, or Utilt?

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

The new jab is great. It feels really nice to interrupt someone with it and then be able to follow up with more certainty than before.

 

[mmacola]

's (dind't test 's, probably also changed) base hit of UpB kills early (didn't test late hit)

Tested vs on Final Destination (3ds) from initial position (near the ledge). On training mode, CPU AI set to Stop.

On 1.0.7, always kills on 145%. Occasionall kills on 144%, but on 145% it's a confirm.

On 1.0.8, always kills on 131%. On 130% it never killed.

Tested vs on Final Destination (3ds) from initial position (near the ledge). On training mode, CPU AI set to Stop.

On 1.0.7, always kills on 165%. On 164% it never killed.

On 1.0.8, always kills on 149%. On 148% it never killed

Test was done after a reset on each try, so the position always is the same.

 

[Vipermoon]

's (dind't test 's, probably also changed) base hit of UpB kills early (didn't test late hit)

Tested vs on Final Destination (3ds) from initial position (near the ledge). On training mode, CPU AI set to Stop.

On 1.0.7, always kills on 145%. Occasionall kills on 144%, but on 145% it's a confirm.

On 1.0.8, always kills on 131%. On 130% it never killed.

Tested vs on Final Destination (3ds) from initial position (near the ledge). On training mode, CPU AI set to Stop.

On 1.0.7, always kills on 165%. On 164% it never killed.

On 1.0.8, always kills on 149%. On 148% it never killed

Test was done after a reset on each try, so the position always is the same.

The 3DS has bigger blast zones/bigger stages so yes it will kill later on the DS. Up B is unchanged

 

[mmacola]

But both tests (1.0.7 and 1.0.8) were on the 3ds

 

[Vipermoon]

But both tests (1.0.7 and 1.0.8) were on the 3ds

But Dolphin Slash has about the same power as Fair and when the compared the two for the new patch I found that they were still the same... Idk what to make of this

 

[mmacola]

Here, made a video showcasing the testing and results. Potato quality, you've been warned

https://youtu.be/O4RksCFPxxg

 

[Vipermoon]

Here, made a video showcasing the testing and results. Potato quality, you've been warned

https://youtu.be/O4RksCFPxxg

Wow, I'm sorry I doubted you I just didn't see it myself. Thanks for finding this.

http://smashboards.com/threads/lucas-roy-ryu-1-0-8-community-patch-notes-17th-15-00.406319/page-15

Please tell these guys about it as soon as you can. With your video it's all the proof you need.

 

[Shaya]

Dolphin Slash knockback being buffed was something I expected actually

 

[Emblem Lord]

I was going to post this. I killed a Mario in FG around 135% with DS near the ledge. I was like O_o

 

[LordWilliam1234]

These are the frame changes I found for Marth:

Jab 1 total frame count increased, from 26 -> 28.

Jab 1 IASA frame moved to 3 frames earlier.

Jab 1 Tipper hit: Self block-freeze 9 -> 8, opponent block-freeze 7 -> 6, blockstun 3 -> 2.

Jab 2 total frame count increased, from 26 -> 28.

Dolphin Slash: Self hit-lag increased by 2 frames, 4 -> 6.

Crescent Slash: Self hit-lag increased by 2 frames, 3 -> 5.

This is in addition to the N-air and U-tilt changes already found.

Don't have gifs for all of the changes put together yet but am working on it. Also updated Marth's frame data on my frame data sheet to include the new changes as well as the frame data for his customs.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Good stuff big willie. Face my Ryu sometime bro.

I been in the dojo.

 

[Admiral_Dante]

I was going to post this. I killed a Mario in FG around 135% with DS near the ledge. I was like O_o

You were using DS?! O_o

 

[Emblem Lord]

Well I was on For Glory so I didnt have much choice lol

 

[LordWilliam1234]

Good stuff big willie. Face my Ryu sometime bro.

I been in the dojo.

I'll be back to my regularly scheduled Smash play this weekend. Just been going ham with frame data stuff this week so haven't been playing.

 

[Vipermoon]

The back hit of Utilt to Ftilt combos on Captain Falcon at and only at 47%. Yay I guess.

^Copied my recent post from the outdated, never updated, combo thread.

 

[Darklink401]

Wonder if FF nair into sweetspot dolphin slash can be a thing.....*goes hit the lab*

 

[Akira213]

Buffs to DS and U-Tilt seem moderately useful, it's always nice to be able to kill earlier in more ways. I don't think the N-Air change is very relevant, but it does give me hope we'll see the lag on f-air reduced in the future. Jab buff is definitely solid, although I don't see why they felt the need to lower the damage by 1%, that seems pretty arbitrary. Some overall damage buffs in the future would be nice, but I think the biggest thing holding this character down right now is his grab game. Hopefully we'll see that amended in future updates.

 

[A_Kae]

Buffs to DS and U-Tilt seem moderately useful, it's always nice to be able to kill earlier in more ways. I don't think the N-Air change is very relevant, but it does give me hope we'll see the lag on f-air reduced in the future. Jab buff is definitely solid, although I don't see why they felt the need to lower the damage by 1%, that seems pretty arbitrary. Some overall damage buffs in the future would be nice, but I think the biggest thing holding this character down right now is his grab game. Hopefully we'll see that amended in future updates.

Change to Nair is absolutely relevant. Just hit with the first hit near the ground and you can combo into so much stuff.

 

[Akira213]

Change to Nair is absolutely relevant. Just hit with the first hit near the ground and you can combo into so much stuff.

Well you have me interested, can you elaborate on "so much stuff"?

 

[A_Kae]

Well you have me interested, can you elaborate on "so much stuff"?

Other people probably know better than I do, but I know that you can get jab at least, and I'm almost certain that you can also get Up-Special. Based on the startup of the following moves, you should be able to combo into these as well: Up-Tilt, Down-Tilt, Down-Smash, Grab, and Dancing Blade. I can't say for sure, I haven't done enough testing, but those should work.

Edit: And since Jab has some very nice new applications, Nair comboing into jab is definitely even better than what it might seem at face value.

 

[Akira213]

Other people probably know better than I do, but I know that you can get jab at least, and I'm almost certain that you can also get Up-Special. Based on the startup of the following moves, you should be able to combo into these as well: Up-Tilt, Down-Tilt, Down-Smash, Grab, and Dancing Blade. I can't say for sure, I haven't done enough testing, but those should work.

Edit: And since Jab has some very nice new applications, Nair comboing into jab is definitely even better than what it might seem at face value.

I'll have to try out when I get back from work. Sounds neat. Are these true combos or just very fast follow ups?

 

[A_Kae]

I'll have to try out when I get back from work. Sounds neat. Are these true combos or just very fast follow ups?

Depending on percent these can be either, really. I don't think you can get true combos from nair 1 at low percents, but jab 1 definitely is a true combo at some point, and the rest I think should be the same.

Again, I should say that I haven't tested these enough to say for sure, just that it seems like they should work.

Edit: They all probably require a tipper nair as well.

 

[Vipermoon]

The reduction on Marth's Nair landing lag might be his biggest buff this patch depending on how much use we can make of Utilt and Jab (I'm definitely trying with moderate success). But yeah just Nair with a fastfall pretty much whenever you want to land. Either scare them into a defensive option with it or hit them with it and follow-up. 1 frame of landing lag reduction is a big deal, 3 frames is extremely affects combos and the character generally feeling more fluid.

 

[Langston777]

tfw i can spam nair more now

 

[Quickhero]

tfw i can spam nair more now

N-air is almost like Melee Marth's f-air, ALMOST. Stuff doesn't have as much range and it doesn't provide as much space as even Smash 4 Marth's f-air but oh man is it a good combo tool that has pretty low risk. I love it so much. :3

 

[TimeChain]

As a Marth/Lucina main (how many mains do I have?!), I'm quite pleased with these buffs. His Up Tilt and specifically his Nair has less ending/landing lag, his Jab can now be used to set-up for combos, and his Dolphin Slash has increased knockback and I use it a lot more often for killing. And for an added bonus, Lucina now makes a SFX when using her Dolphin Slash and Counter. I really hope buffs like these are present in the future (I'm looking at you Fair...).

 

[Airei]

So far messing with Marth, and the most noticeable thing here is that his jab now true combos with both hits. The first hit floats the opponent up similar to Link's first jab.

If anyone finds more changes, feel free to add them.

Jab improved; both hits link more reliably as the transition is faster and jab 1 now produces vertical-based knockback, and the second hit deals increased knockback. The first hit also now has followup potential outside of transiting to the second hit. This however, removes the move's ability to jab-reset people.

Both hits of jab deal 1% less damage.

All hitboxes of up tilt now deal vertical knockback, with improved base knockback, making it a better KO move. It additionally has 3 less frames of ending lag.

N-air has 3 less frames of landing lag.

Dolphin Slash has slightly improved knockback scaling.

This is all 100% confirmed iirc

 

[A_Kae]

Jab improved; both hits link more reliably as the transition is faster and jab 1 now produces vertical-based knockback, and the second hit deals increased knockback. The first hit also now has followup potential outside of transiting to the second hit. This however, removes the move's ability to jab-reset people.

Both hits of jab deal 1% less damage.

All hitboxes of up tilt now deal vertical knockback, with improved base knockback, making it a better KO move. It additionally has 3 less frames of ending lag.

N-air has 3 less frames of landing lag.

Dolphin Slash has slightly improved knockback scaling.

This is all 100% confirmed iirc

You know, you're a bit late...

Also, only Jab 1 does 1% less. Jab 2 still does 4/6.

Here are all the known (and probably just all) changes:

Spoiler

Jab1
IASA 26 -> 28
all hitboxes
-damage 4/6 -> 3/5
-angle 361 -> 78/65/90
-kbg 50/70 -> 30
-bkb 20/30 -> 55
-hitlag 1.0 -> 0.7
transition to jab2
-frame 20 -> 17

Jab2
IASA 26 -> 28
all hitboxes
-angle 361 -> 45
-kbg 50/70 -> 75
-bkb 20/30 -> 62

Nair
landing lag 15 -> 12

Utilt
IASA 42 -> 39
initial hitboxes
-angle 361 -> 100 (already 100 on hitboxes 0,3)
-bkb 50 -> 65
delayed hitboxes
-angle 361 -> 100 (already 100 on hitboxes 0,3)
-bkb 40 -> 52

Dolphin Slash
initial hitboxes
-kbg 68 -> 74
-hitlag 0.5 -> 0.7
Crescent Slash
initial hitboxes
-hitlag 0.5 -> 0.7

Edit: smashboards messed up the formatting on this.
Edit 2: Fixed it as much as I care to.

 

[Airei]

You know, you're a bit late...

Also, only Jab 1 does 1% less. Jab 2 still does 4/6.

Here are all the known (and probably just all) changes:

Spoiler

Jab1
IASA 26 -> 28
all hitboxes
-damage 4/6 -> 3/5
-angle 361 -> 78/65/90
-kbg 50/70 -> 30
-bkb 20/30 -> 55
-hitlag 1.0 -> 0.7
transition to jab2
-frame 20 -> 17

Jab2
IASA 26 -> 28
all hitboxes
-angle 361 -> 45
-kbg 50/70 -> 75
-bkb 20/30 -> 62

Nair
landing lag 15 -> 12

Utilt
IASA 42 -> 39
initial hitboxes
-angle 361 -> 100 (already 100 on hitboxes 0,3)
-bkb 50 -> 65
delayed hitboxes
-angle 361 -> 100 (already 100 on hitboxes 0,3)
-bkb 40 -> 52

Dolphin Slash
initial hitboxes
-kbg 68 -> 74
-hitlag 0.5 -> 0.7
Crescent Slash
initial hitboxes
-hitlag 0.5 -> 0.7

Edit: smashboards messed up the formatting on this.
Edit 2: Fixed it as much as I care to.

Well, thanks anyway. I'm often late to these kind of things lol