Pokemon Trainer (Red!) Discussion

EDIT: In this topic, Red fans finally got their victory on August 13, 2007. :D

I'll do my best to argue why I think Red belongs in Super Smash Brothers Brawl.

If you look at the list of characters in SSBM, you'll see that most of them are playable in their own games. Mario, Link, Donkey Kong...you are the one controlling them as they go on their adventures. There are some characters like Ganondorf who are never playable, but we'll ignore him. >>;

Then we get to Pokemon. The four playable characters Pikachu, Pichu, Jigglypuff and Mewtwo are playable in a sense in their own game. When you think about the actual story though, the trainer is the one who calls the shots and tells the Pokemon what to do and how to react against the enemy. Like Link in a Zelda game, there is a character who represents you. Focusing on the first Pokemon games Pokemon Red/Green (Blue), we will call this character Red.

He's an 11 year old boy who left his home to become a Pokemon Master. He goes through any length to capture Pokemon. He'll fish for them. He'll ride his bike through grass. He'll go into the Safari Zone and lure them with candy or hit them with rocks. Whatever it takes, in the end he reaches his goal in the final showdown with his rival at the Indigo Plateau, and he uses his well trained Pokemon to reach his goal. Then in the Gold/Silver/Crystal games, you face him in Mt. Silver. Silent as always, he takes you on...and when he loses, he disappears to take you on another day.

Why do I think Red should be in SSBB? Well, for one...this year is Pokemon's 10th anniversary in Japan. I think he'd be the perfect character to celebrate such an occassion with. Red/Green were the games that started it all, and Red was the trainer you journeyed as.

I'm sure your next thought is, "Why would he be playable? He doesn't even fight, and the story doesn't call for it." That is also true, but there are characters in SSBM that never really fought and made their way in. I'm looking at you Peach, Zelda and Mr. Game and Watch (at the time SSBM was released, these characters didn't really fight).

Now the next problem, how would Red fight? Many suggest that by using Pokeballs, he would be overpowered. Not a problem. Just have him throw Pokeballs that don't open. It could be a projectile. Forward B could Red riding on his bike and tackling into the enemy. Up + B could be a Pidgeot helping him up with Fly for a little while. Down + B could be similar to Peach's counter, with Red holding out an item like a Poke Doll. Red's throw can be done with the fishing rod.

I'm just using quick examples, and I know there are many that can come up with better ones. Red could be a long range character, having fixed Pokemon for his moveset attack for him. As a tradeoff, Red could have lag and be a lightweight character. Yes, another lightweight character for the Pokemon series does suck, but he is a human and Mewtwo should have been heavy in the first place.

I apologize for the long post, but I feel that Red would be a great Pokemon character to add into SSB:B. On a final note, I am talking about the hero of the games, not Ash Ketchum from the Pokemon anime. Ash, although based off Red, originates in the anime, and he does not belong in the game.

Now I look forward to your thoughts and ideas!

simply no, that is a horrible idea.

Zodiak-Lucien said:

simply no, that is a horrible idea.

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dammit i was gonna say that 1st. but uh seriously...how do i explain this.

red needs pokemon to fight. he cant just go around throwing :item9:s everywhere.

I'd prefer the protagonist from Ruby/Sapphire over Red (was his name Ruby? hahaha). He looks about 10x cooler and no one would confuse him with Ash (whose character model was based off of Red, hat and all). He could even have a green costume from Emerald.

But using the super rod is a stroke of genius. Empty Pokeballs would be good projectiles (or even rocks from the safari zone). They could work sort of like Peach's turnips. Pokeballs would be the standard, but you have chances of pulling Great balls, Ultra balls, and ultimately the Master ball (which would be equivilent to the "death veggie" of peach). Some A attacks could involve whips with the super rod.

That could actually work out really well, and people who are whining about no more playable Pokemon couldn't b****.

If people don't think he was meant to fight, I have two words for you. Captain Falcon.

fluffy said:

dammit i was gonna say that 1st. but uh seriously...how do i explain this.

red needs pokemon to fight. he cant just go around throwing :item9:s everywhere.

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Did you not see the part where I said Red could have fixed Pokemon for his moveset at the cost of being light and having lag after summoning them? =/

He could work in a similar fashion to the characters Tayuya and Kankuro from the Naruto fighting games. Tayuya controls summoned monsters with her flute, and since they're so big and they attack the enemy, it acts as a defense for her. It's also the same with Kankuro and his puppets. They attack and act as a barrier. However, these two characters have very low defense, and when one gets past their summons and puppets, they get hurt badly.

I think it'd be better if the Pokeballs were just empty.

Red is a hell of a lot better than when people think Ash should be in. But I don't think he's suitable to fight in SSB.

Yukiwarashi said:

Did you not see the part where I said Red could have fixed Pokemon for his moveset at the cost of being light and having lag after summoning them? =/

He could work in a similar fashion to the characters Tayuya and Kankuro from the Naruto fighting games. Tayuya controls summoned monsters with her flute, and since they're so big and they attack the enemy, it acts as a defense for her. It's also the same with Kankuro and his puppets. They attack and act as a barrier. However, these two characters have very low defense, and when one gets past their summons and puppets, they get hurt badly.

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um...sry i actually didnt take the time to read ur notes. i never watched naruto either...yea

Yea i live this idea just as long as Ash is in no wa involved. You could make this character gensius i fyou spend time on him.

B- tosse pokeball in mini form, which disappears on contact, disappears as red ball of light that fades out.

B up-sound of a pokeball opening and pideot seems to come out of his back pack..works like a Marth or Roy B up but obviously a little different.

B over - sound of a pokeball opening and a squirtle (saying "squirtle") surfs outward on a very small extension of water, then returns, not particularly powerful but it does send the opponent tumbling backwards on occasion. (Red also has a vey small amount of water just uner his feet and he moves forward a little when this attack is performed.)

B Down-Red holds a clefairy or pikachu doll out which works as a counter attack, similar to Peaches.

Smash A over- red points his finger and you hear a faint pokeball sound openign adn a "scy" a scyther 's upper body pops out of his backpack and gives a weak slice immediately followed by a pretty powerful one...as reds arm extends to pointit is nearly impossible to escape the weak first slice. scyther's upper body is not much larger thatn red's in this move.

Smash up -red faces towards the screen and rises up with his hands in fist after he rises form getting low, as he does this a hitmontop quickly extends his head up using his spike to send the oppontent up

Smash Down- red throws one of those pester balls straight down form pokemon snap which sneds harmful purplish colouds left and right..you could aslo say he throws ether

Dash A- red rides his bike for a short amount of time...works like kirby's dash A. the bike quickly folds up and is put back in the backpack...happens real quick.

neutral A- punch or series of punches, if you pause and look closely red has rocks from the safari zone in his hands, helping him do damage, because we all know red cant really fight on his own.

down tilt A-swings leg on ground real weak

over A tilt- kicks real weak

up tilt A- puts his fists together, so thumbs are touchign thumbs, and swings them over his head, again has rocks in his fists but they are basically not visible because of the way his hands are clinched

Fair- you can spot a bulbasaurs head sticking out of reds bag and he uses vine whip...like LUigis Fair only with vine whips, (cant u all see how that oculd work) again u hear the pokeball openign sound along iwht maybe a fiant "bulba"

Bair- red does a complete spin around and charmander is clutching his backpakc on the turn around and charmanders tail with the flame at the end swings around for the hit, this time you hear charmander say "char" before he becomes visible.

Dair- Red is straight and points just his feet up striking opponent with heels (not to strong)

Uair-Pidgeot does "wing attack" just striking with his wing up.

grabs would be with super rod- sorta like agrappling hook his animation when he gets soemone you can see him "reel " them in like and and he jst swings the rod to throw them each way, for the down thorw he would just smal em into teh ground. forward would look like hes doing a shortened casting of the rod, and back hed just swing em back and up hed just grab them off the rod and throw them up.

in his taunt suirtle, bulbasaur, and chramander's head stick out of red's back pack and red reveals his badges by putting his hands on his waist moving his jacket back, he says "Got em" or ewhatever it says when they catch a pokemon...this could be wihtout the pokemon's heads sticking out.

Taunt 2- he clinches a poke or master ball in his hands, sorta tilts his hat over his eyes and liek tilts his head down and really doesnt say anythign, just maybe a hmph....this may be more logical as he is silent when you encounter him in gold/so;ver version.

This dude coudl work, give him a Shot

I thank you for not saying Ash and confusing them, but there are some good points here. Red could easily be confused with Ash and he doesn't fight. The others sort of did. Capt. Falcon is a bounty hunter like Samus, Peach was playable beforehand in Super Mario (as was toad and luigi), Mr. G&W is from all the games he was in and played in (firefighter hat move is from the saving stuff with the trampoline game), Zelda/Sheik if I am not mistaken was playable in a game (that's why they made her both Zelda AND Shiek) and the "bad guys" like Bowser and Ganondorf aren't playable because you fight them.

Red on the other hand would have either a crappy movesetor uber moveset. If he had the bike move or fishing rod stuff you say, no one would use him because he sucks. If he had unlimited Pokemon to throw out of Pokeballs he'd be too uber powerful and it'd change gameplay too much.

And finally a big point: the Pokemon in the game usually represent the series very well. If you showed them to someone on the street they would say it's a Pokemon not something from Yu-gi-oh or something else. Jigglypuff, Pikachu and Mewtwo can be seen as mascots while Pichu was only because they wanted one from the gold/silver series and it was easy to do (plus it looks like Pikachu and people will know it's a pokemon that way). In other words, bet on at least 2 pokemon that represent the series, not Red/Blue/Green or whoever the main chracter of the game is because no one who has never played the games would know who he was.

And yes we know Ness wasn't known HERE and neither were Marth or Roy - but things are different in Japan remember. Even there a lot of people wouldn't know the character was from Pokemon.

Zelda actually did sort of fight in Ocarina of Time. She helped you defeat Ganon, the final boss.

he could be pikachu´s entrance but nothing more

Maybe his pokeball could briefly capture the opponent. Like a projectile version of Yoshi's move.

burrito said:

Maybe his pokeball could briefly capture the opponent. Like a projectile version of Yoshi's move.

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so like his egg laying attack where the cant move? interesting...

kirby_fox said:

I thank you for not saying Ash and confusing them, but there are some good points here. Red could easily be confused with Ash and he doesn't fight. The others sort of did. Capt. Falcon is a bounty hunter like Samus, Peach was playable beforehand in Super Mario (as was toad and luigi), Mr. G&W is from all the games he was in and played in (firefighter hat move is from the saving stuff with the trampoline game), Zelda/Sheik if I am not mistaken was playable in a game (that's why they made her both Zelda AND Shiek) and the "bad guys" like Bowser and Ganondorf aren't playable because you fight them.

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And Dr. Mario? Does he fight viruses? XD He's from a Tetris-esque game...

Just because they don't fight in the games doesn't mean they can't fight in SSB. Tom Nook doesn't fight, and yet a lot of people still want him.

I mean, c'mon, someone using a fishing pole and a bicycle as weapons would be great. It'd fit the atmosphere of SSB pretty well if you ask me.

Stop hating. I say =) though more likely than not he'll become an Ash (even though he's cooler as red in G/S)

I think Red would be a good character. His special attacks could consist of using his Pokemon. He could hold them out(similar to how Peach holds out Toad) & they do an attack. For his Up+B he could pull out Pidgey & Pidgey could fly him up a little bit for his third jump. & for his grab, he holds out Bulbasaur & Bulbasaur uses his vines to pull in your opponent.

Also I liked the idea of using his Bike somehow for one of his attacks. & for his Super he could throw out some Legendary Pokemon & do some really devistating attack.

burrito said:

Maybe his pokeball could briefly capture the opponent. Like a projectile version of Yoshi's move.

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seems like the ultimate edgeguarding move.

I wouldn't mind a trainer, it would be a nice addition instead of having more and more pokemond being added to the roster. The trainer is the main character of the Pokemon series, so why wouldn't he be in? It seems people assume that Red would either be too strong or too crappy, because than there's Peach who is cheap (hahah anagram) and Mewtwo who turns to complete crap. Red would just be another utility character like Link and Samus with even more tools. With so many pokemon and items from the games, Red's moveset has one of the greatest chances of having a very unique moveset.

Zodiak-Lucien said:

seems like the ultimate edgeguarding move.

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Well, they can have it that you can wiggle the joystick to get out of it (more damage means it would be more difficult to escape, in addition to that random-ball thing another poster suggested) and after the escape would have them raise slightly harder.

Red doesn't fight. He lets his pokemon fight. Peach had no way of attacking before SSBM so it was easy to make a new moveset. But Red already has something to fight with. His pokemon. He would be completely lame.

commonyoshi said:

Red doesn't fight. He lets his pokemon fight. Peach had no way of attacking before SSBM so it was easy to make a new moveset. But Red already has something to fight with. His pokemon. He would be completely lame.

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Well, peach did attack before SSBM, and that was with turnips, isn't that why Red does with his pokeballs? And since [Red] had no way of attacking before SSBM so it [would be] easy to make a new moveset.

*Bows head in shame* Curse you and your logic! I didn't know about Peach. Well, I dont really care as long as they give him some good attacks. But it still wont ever happen.

red could use the key items in his inventory for a attacks. ;p

Yukiwarashi said:

I'll do my best to argue why I think Red belongs in Super Smash Brothers Brawl.

If you look at the list of characters in SSBM, you'll see that most of them are playable in their own games. Mario, Link, Donkey Kong...you are the one controlling them as they go on their adventures. There are some characters like Ganondorf who are never playable, but we'll ignore him. >>;

Then we get to Pokemon. The four playable characters Pikachu, Pichu, Jigglypuff and Mewtwo are playable in a sense in their own game. When you think about the actual story though, the trainer is the one who calls the shots and tells the Pokemon what to do and how to react against the enemy. Like Link in a Zelda game, there is a character who represents you. Focusing on the first Pokemon games Pokemon Red/Green (Blue), we will call this character Red.

He's an 11 year old boy who left his home to become a Pokemon Master. He goes through any length to capture Pokemon. He'll fish for them. He'll ride his bike through grass. He'll go into the Safari Zone and lure them with candy or hit them with rocks. Whatever it takes, in the end he reaches his goal in the final showdown with his rival at the Indigo Plateau, and he uses his well trained Pokemon to reach his goal. Then in the Gold/Silver/Crystal games, you face him in Mt. Silver. Silent as always, he takes you on...and when he loses, he disappears to take you on another day.

Why do I think Red should be in SSBB? Well, for one...this year is Pokemon's 10th anniversary in Japan. I think he'd be the perfect character to celebrate such an occassion with. Red/Green were the games that started it all, and Red was the trainer you journeyed as.

I'm sure your next thought is, "Why would he be playable? He doesn't even fight, and the story doesn't call for it." That is also true, but there are characters in SSBM that never really fought and made their way in. I'm looking at you Peach, Zelda and Mr. Game and Watch (at the time SSBM was released, these characters didn't really fight).

Now the next problem, how would Red fight? Many suggest that by using Pokeballs, he would be overpowered. Not a problem. Just have him throw Pokeballs that don't open. It could be a projectile. Forward B could Red riding on his bike and tackling into the enemy. Up + B could be a Pidgeot helping him up with Fly for a little while. Down + B could be similar to Peach's counter, with Red holding out an item like a Poke Doll. Red's throw can be done with the fishing rod.

I'm just using quick examples, and I know there are many that can come up with better ones. Red could be a long range character, having fixed Pokemon for his moveset attack for him. As a tradeoff, Red could have lag and be a lightweight character. Yes, another lightweight character for the Pokemon series does suck, but he is a human and Mewtwo should have been heavy in the first place.

I apologize for the long post, but I feel that Red would be a great Pokemon character to add into SSB:B. On a final note, I am talking about the hero of the games, not Ash Ketchum from the Pokemon anime. Ash, although based off Red, originates in the anime, and he does not belong in the game.

Now I look forward to your thoughts and ideas!

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No, simply no. A pokemon trainer would look ridiculous in a SSB game.

swift assailant said:

No, simply no. A pokemon trainer would look ridiculous in a SSB game.

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thats true. nooooo poke'mon trainers in smash people

JmcShocker16 said:

thats true. nooooo poke'mon trainers in smash people

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well it does look pretty cool to hav pidgeon give u a lift as a 3rd jump...

wait what am i saying? slap me

A trainer would not look lame, at least not anymore than snake, since he's still first party. A trainer would be good, but i think it should be a down B thing, where he takes pokeballs from his belt as an item, just dont know how to control that power( pokeballs are some of the most powerful items at times)his other moves could be related to the GB/GBC games. as someone before suggested, fishing pole (maybe charge into a good rod and super rod?) , bicycle, potion, etc idk something cool

asianpride3491 said:

A trainer would not look lame, at least not anymore than snake, since he's still first party. A trainer would be good, but i think it should be a down B thing, where he takes pokeballs from his belt as an item, just dont know how to control that power( pokeballs are some of the most powerful items at times)his other moves could be related to the GB/GBC games. as someone before suggested, fishing pole (maybe charge into a good rod and super rod?) , bicycle, potion, etc idk something cool

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you would really want them to waist space with a pokemon trainer? by the way who is red?

I mentioned this in another topic, but ill repeat it here:

Pidgey on shoulder, other pokemon at heel
UpB - Pidgey lifts upward, can be used to hit opponent with beak.
SmashB - Pulls bike from backpack and thrusts forward
DownB - Pokemon Switch, pokemon at heel rotates between Charmander, Squirtle and Bulbasaur
B - Pokemon attack, Squirtle charges up a withdraw to headbutt (slow, high damage), bulbasaur leech seeds (lobing projectile, takes off % over time, can be added together with mulitple seeds), charmander flamethrows (quick projectile attack)

A attacks would all be based on the pokemon (quick claw strykes for charmander, long reaching vinewhips for Bulbasaur, slow bubble and headbutts for squirtle)

JmcShocker16 said:

you would really want them to waist space with a pokemon trainer? by the way who is red?

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Do you honestly think space will be an issue? Look how big SSBM was with a mini-disk. Now imagine the game on a dual-layer DVD. Yeah. Space is not an issue.

Sheesh, don't contribute to a thread if you don't even know that Red is the person we've been talking about THIS ENTIRE THREAD. Red is the default trainer name from the first Pokemon games.

Even I admit it'd be a better idea than another Pokemon.

He could throw a Pokeball for his Super move, & since it's his Super it would always be a legendary(Zapdos, Suicune, ect...)

JmcShocker16 said:

you would really want them to waist space with a pokemon trainer? by the way who is red?

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No, I would not want them to waste space with a pokemon trainer. I, like many others, would want them to use the space effectively on making potential characters worthy being in the new game. Also, would you please do a little research on the character before mindlessly bash them?

Noypi_GjD said:

No, I would not want them to waste space with a pokemon trainer. I, like many others, would want them to use the space effectively on making potential characters worthy being in the new game. Also, would you please do a little research on the character before mindlessly bash them?

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well if i dont know who the character is that kinda says something. anyways who is red?

JmcShocker16 said:

well if i dont know who the character is that kinda says something. anyways who is red?

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Oh? I'm sorry if the characters of the new games have to specifically revolve around who you do and don't know. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_(Pokemon)

ilabb said:

Red is the default trainer name from the first Pokemon games.

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^Answer.

Noypi_GjD said:

Oh? I'm sorry if the characters of the new games have to specifically revolve around who you do and don't know. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_(Pokemon)



^Answer.

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wow I had no idea that Red actually had an interesting and fascinating personality

Ewww just NO!
What has Red to add? He's just a lil kid without any powers or so. What do you expect a child of 11 years old to do agains Ganon or Samus? Cmon man Red couldn't even hurt the Pokemon in the safari zone by throwing rocks.

Smash is getting more seriously now. I don't even think we'll see Pichu back who was the joke character of SSBM so why do we need Red?

If you wanna fight with a child character just choose Ness... <_<

Diddy Kong said:

Ewww just NO!
What has Red to add? He's just a lil kid without any powers or so. What do you expect a child of 11 years old to do agains Ganon or Samus? Cmon man Red couldn't even hurt the Pokemon in the safari zone by throwing rocks.

Smash is getting more seriously now. I don't even think we'll see Pichu back who was the joke character of SSBM so why do we need Red?

If you wanna fight with a child character just choose Ness... <_<

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all characters are returning and if Smash is taking a serious turn we better remove all the mario, kirby, pokemon characters and the ice climbers and game & watch

Diddy Kong said:

Ewww just NO!
What has Red to add? He's just a lil kid without any powers or so.

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Actually, technically speaking, Pokemon training counts as a "power."

I think it would be interesting if most of his Specials revolved around summoning a Pokemon to do an attack. Similar to Jill Valentine in Marvel Vs. Capcom 2 summoning her Zombies. He would summon the Pokemon and they would stay stationary, doing it's attack, as Red (Or as Brenden, If you want to use one of the Ruby/Sapphire trainers) could orbit around. Perhaps the move would call a random pokemon, or perhaps it would do one of four moves randomely, and another button input would change what Pokemon you have equipped.

The pokemon wouldn't be nearely as varied or useful as the Pokeball Item, But thats a given, and I like the random aspects of each Pokemon attack having four possible moves, Like G&W's Hammer/Sign move, or Peach's turnips.

I'll pass on the thought of a trainer as a character in SSBB.

Diddy Kong said:

What do you expect a child of 11 years old to do agains Ganon or Samus?

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Did you expect that a pink puffbal who can sing people to sleep win a battle against Ganon or Samus? Did you expect that a pink floating ball that can suck people up can win a battle against Ganon or Samus?