-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Toon Link's Match-up Discussion #8: Pit (Rediscuss)
- Thread starter VietGeek
- Start date
TLMarth
Smash Ace
He's like TL... apparently he has trouble killing...
He has two reflectors...
blah...
bair is one of his killing moves...
don't forget his arrows... some people avoid them by sh airdodging, or running up and spotdodging...
He can loop arrows, so if he shoots one straight up it might not be gone...
I found this by going to the Pit boards...
He has two reflectors...
blah...
bair is one of his killing moves...
don't forget his arrows... some people avoid them by sh airdodging, or running up and spotdodging...
He can loop arrows, so if he shoots one straight up it might not be gone...
I found this by going to the Pit boards...
UnderWing
Smash Apprentice
If you're facing a spammy pit, you can often use SHDA to pressure him from arrow spamming. Try to learn to time the perfect shield on the arrows -- have a friend constantly spam them, and learn to walk towards the pit, shield, and walk again (or run). That's probably the most useful skill I've ever found against fighting a pit -- if you can neutralize arrowspam, it's fairly straightforward.
Oh, watch for those reflectors too, I guess -- the shield comes out very quickly, and can be brought out mid-arrow spam. Something to watch for, unless you're close you should be able to shield it just fine.
Oh, watch for those reflectors too, I guess -- the shield comes out very quickly, and can be brought out mid-arrow spam. Something to watch for, unless you're close you should be able to shield it just fine.
QUIVO
Smash Master
-Zair against Pit a bunch, it out ranges anything he has.
- Watch your spacing with aerials when Pit is shielding. They can shorthop nair out of it and it has good priority.
- Mirrorshield isn't too big of a problem as long as you're not spam happy.
- Watch out for bair and glide attack. His best killing moves.
- Try to gimp his up b when you have the chance. Throw projectiles at him.
- Really, Zair a lot...
- Arrow loops aren't a problem. They're so easy to not get hit by. His wingdash can mess your spacing and your bombs up a little bit.
- Watch vids of me vs dr. x to see what I do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_jp5T2HYJE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSwyHacoACY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqFFMg94RWU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkoYRp5fYkU
only in one of these is more recent (the one where I zair) Ive discovered Zair ***** life
- Watch your spacing with aerials when Pit is shielding. They can shorthop nair out of it and it has good priority.
- Mirrorshield isn't too big of a problem as long as you're not spam happy.
- Watch out for bair and glide attack. His best killing moves.
- Try to gimp his up b when you have the chance. Throw projectiles at him.
- Really, Zair a lot...
- Arrow loops aren't a problem. They're so easy to not get hit by. His wingdash can mess your spacing and your bombs up a little bit.
- Watch vids of me vs dr. x to see what I do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_jp5T2HYJE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSwyHacoACY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqFFMg94RWU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkoYRp5fYkU
only in one of these is more recent (the one where I zair) Ive discovered Zair ***** life
TLMarth
Smash Ace
I don't have anybody to fight...
Go to regional zones and find a tournament near you (just post on the tournament venue thread or something).
Then see if anyone there lives near you or can take you.
If not, try to arrange it with real-life friends, or parents.
Or rent a taxi.
It's tons of fun, and a sh*tload of experience you'll never get from just posting on here and watching videos.
ozg82889
Smash Journeyman
about the bair it only really kills if it is sweetspotted.
TLMarth
Smash Ace
I don't trust people over the internet. >.<
The bair sweetspot is close to Pit rather than at the tip of his sword, no?
The bair sweetspot is close to Pit rather than at the tip of his sword, no?
ozg82889
Smash Journeyman
im not sure i know it has a sweet spot as i played him for a week to show a friend playing really really campy is not the only way.
ill go check on brawl
ok i checked it seems to sweetspot in the first few frames of the animation killing toon link from the middle of FD at 102% while after those frames it wont kill untill its over 300%.
so i think it works like TL's up and down airs in which he does more damage and knockback during the frames when he is thrusting his sword up or down and the glow is visible.
so pit doesn't have a glow but it seems the sweetspot (doing 15% fresh) is during the frames he is thrusting the swords behind him with badly decreased knockback (and damage doing 7% or 6% fresh) for the frames after where his sword's hitbox is still active.
if you guys want i can do percents in which TL kills pit using the mid of final D method the seems to be the standard.
ok i checked it seems to sweetspot in the first few frames of the animation killing toon link from the middle of FD at 102% while after those frames it wont kill untill its over 300%.
so i think it works like TL's up and down airs in which he does more damage and knockback during the frames when he is thrusting his sword up or down and the glow is visible.
so pit doesn't have a glow but it seems the sweetspot (doing 15% fresh) is during the frames he is thrusting the swords behind him with badly decreased knockback (and damage doing 7% or 6% fresh) for the frames after where his sword's hitbox is still active.
if you guys want i can do percents in which TL kills pit using the mid of final D method the seems to be the standard.
Crank
Smash Apprentice
TL may possibly be the biggest threat to Pits ^B while recovering. With multiple long range/controlable/spammable projectiles it should be relatively easy to hit him out of hit, no matter which direction he's coming from. So basically if you use TLs fantastic edgeguarding to make him use his ^B then projectile him out of it, you can be a very big threat to him
Zair the hell out of him, like that one guy said it outranges everything he has.
Blah, thats all I've got right now.
PS, can somebody give me teh links to the sixth and seventh matchup discussion threads? I'm too lazy to look...
Zair the hell out of him, like that one guy said it outranges everything he has.
Blah, thats all I've got right now.
PS, can somebody give me teh links to the sixth and seventh matchup discussion threads? I'm too lazy to look...
MarthFanatique
Smash Journeyman
As a past Pit main (now I'm a Peach/T. Link mainer) I'll tell you some things I did (so you can think of strats to counter my personal playstyle; it will probably be similar to others)...
--I fight defense; I arrow spammed until the opponent comes to me so I can set up my combos/close combat strats.
--Angel Ring is a move that will be used primarily for that little bit of damage that you can add in once in a while. This is also a good spacing move in conjunction to its projectile deflecting effect. If you can catch the early animation of this move roll back or jump over it (roll if you don't have enough to jump it) and dair Pit. The end lag is disgusting.
--His big kill moves are his side smash, bair (sweetspotted only), glide attack (I think...), his uair (believe it or not, it works but has limited effectiveness; I use it whenever my opponents were above me, and purposely set them up for it later on that...). His usmash can kill, but since T. Link is smaller, the 2nd hit may meteor you to the floor (which is good) so the 3rd strike that sends you flying will miss. Either way be aware of that a little.
--Pit mainers will arrow spam to get you to come close, then will quickly either grab (and either up or down throw), utilt, or usmash you so you rise above them. Depending on how far you will fly up they might continue with an usmash (if you're close enough) or repeatedly use their uair. One of Pit's strats is to knock their opponent airborne then uair a lot.
These are just tips about things Pit players do. I'm not gunna say how to avoid them. You all can decide your own ways to avoid and counter their strats. If you know what your opponent will do, you can counter it. Hope that helps! ...Now I feel as if I've betrayed my old Pit mainers...hah
--I fight defense; I arrow spammed until the opponent comes to me so I can set up my combos/close combat strats.
--Angel Ring is a move that will be used primarily for that little bit of damage that you can add in once in a while. This is also a good spacing move in conjunction to its projectile deflecting effect. If you can catch the early animation of this move roll back or jump over it (roll if you don't have enough to jump it) and dair Pit. The end lag is disgusting.
--His big kill moves are his side smash, bair (sweetspotted only), glide attack (I think...), his uair (believe it or not, it works but has limited effectiveness; I use it whenever my opponents were above me, and purposely set them up for it later on that...). His usmash can kill, but since T. Link is smaller, the 2nd hit may meteor you to the floor (which is good) so the 3rd strike that sends you flying will miss. Either way be aware of that a little.
--Pit mainers will arrow spam to get you to come close, then will quickly either grab (and either up or down throw), utilt, or usmash you so you rise above them. Depending on how far you will fly up they might continue with an usmash (if you're close enough) or repeatedly use their uair. One of Pit's strats is to knock their opponent airborne then uair a lot.
These are just tips about things Pit players do. I'm not gunna say how to avoid them. You all can decide your own ways to avoid and counter their strats. If you know what your opponent will do, you can counter it. Hope that helps! ...Now I feel as if I've betrayed my old Pit mainers...hah
TLMarth
Smash Ace
Then, instead of sweetspot, sweet moment?
QUIVO
Smash Master
BTW,
- Dsmash punishes rolls and spot dodges farily easy. The front of the dsmash can hit behind too I think.
- He can mirror shield your up b. Dr. X is the only pit I know that does this, and he's gotten me a few times with it.
- True Uair can kill, but it's weird and you can easily get out of it if you DI correctly. If you're off the edge and uair, it can send you flying off the stage.
- DI and airdodge away from hi dthrow to uair.
- His arrows are faster than your arrows and go further, so camping him with SHDA can work, but if you let him get a chance to start spamming, then you might as well just take the battle up close.
- Powershielding his arrows can work, but they can bend it so that they can mess up the timing.
- What I usually do is just short hop airdodge. Sometime's I'll zair afterwards depending on the spacing. I believe TL's zair also goes through his arrows.
- Dsmash punishes rolls and spot dodges farily easy. The front of the dsmash can hit behind too I think.
- He can mirror shield your up b. Dr. X is the only pit I know that does this, and he's gotten me a few times with it.
- True Uair can kill, but it's weird and you can easily get out of it if you DI correctly. If you're off the edge and uair, it can send you flying off the stage.
- DI and airdodge away from hi dthrow to uair.
- His arrows are faster than your arrows and go further, so camping him with SHDA can work, but if you let him get a chance to start spamming, then you might as well just take the battle up close.
- Powershielding his arrows can work, but they can bend it so that they can mess up the timing.
- What I usually do is just short hop airdodge. Sometime's I'll zair afterwards depending on the spacing. I believe TL's zair also goes through his arrows.
AkaMaruChan
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2007
- Messages
- 44
I have a buddy that mains Pit and MarthF is like almost right on the money with his Pit game.
--if Pit performs his angelic ring, don't try to DI towards him if you're already hit, it won't work no matter how much you think it will. Just suck it up DI away from it and take the damage. If you're in his favorite ring spot, it's at least guaranteed some percent even if you shield through it.
--Fsmash is hard to DI out of, just avoid it all together. sometimes Pit's forward tilt can kill too.
--not alot of people mentioned his angelic step or wing glide or whatever they call it. Pit spot dodges and sort of glides or skips towards you and can space out anything from smashes to tilts. It's really big on mind games and if you can anticipate it, by all means punish him.
--arrows are obnoxious when you get knocked off the stage. Remember to air dodge as you come back, or try to anticipate his arrows. There is an area right above him that you can find refuge in as long as you can watch out for his uAir
--uAir has insane priority. Watch out especially when he gets lame and does this at the edge.
--don't try to Dair him if he's recovering, it's tempting I know, but resist the temptation.
--if Pit performs his angelic ring, don't try to DI towards him if you're already hit, it won't work no matter how much you think it will. Just suck it up DI away from it and take the damage. If you're in his favorite ring spot, it's at least guaranteed some percent even if you shield through it.
--Fsmash is hard to DI out of, just avoid it all together. sometimes Pit's forward tilt can kill too.
--not alot of people mentioned his angelic step or wing glide or whatever they call it. Pit spot dodges and sort of glides or skips towards you and can space out anything from smashes to tilts. It's really big on mind games and if you can anticipate it, by all means punish him.
--arrows are obnoxious when you get knocked off the stage. Remember to air dodge as you come back, or try to anticipate his arrows. There is an area right above him that you can find refuge in as long as you can watch out for his uAir
--uAir has insane priority. Watch out especially when he gets lame and does this at the edge.
--don't try to Dair him if he's recovering, it's tempting I know, but resist the temptation.
QUIVO
Smash Master
You can SDI towards him if he does the angelic ring and punish
Jellyfishn
Smash Journeyman
SH air dodge works like a charm against his arrows. Watch out for his bair, and its "sweet moment" i guess. Use alot of bombs, as reflecting these doesn't always work. Use zair. Its almost all been said. To kill i most often use Fair.
BKrkr
Smash Apprentice
Rush him while stopping to shield/spot dodge the arrows. I prefer attacking with aerials (short hopped nair and bairs mainly,) but a point-blank boomerang is always satisfying. When landing in front of Pit, be sure to fire off an arrow to open Toon's path for a nair to the face.
Also, my fellow Toons, never forget our little guy's biggest asset, his projectiles. It doesn't matter if Pit can reflect them if your bombs hit over his shield, or if he is busy rolling or getting up. Make them busy, make them annoyed, make them dead.
Also, my fellow Toons, never forget our little guy's biggest asset, his projectiles. It doesn't matter if Pit can reflect them if your bombs hit over his shield, or if he is busy rolling or getting up. Make them busy, make them annoyed, make them dead.
vbdood1337
Smash Apprentice
That sentence would have made complete sense if snake actually had a wavedash...
QUIVO
Smash Master
Yea, Pit sucks at killing vertically.. so i guess Corneria would be good. The only problem is if you're on the edges, he could kill you way earlier. I know my friend hates Pokemon stadium 1. I think it's mostly because of the edges though and maybe it's just his personal preference.
Also, my friend likes Lylat as a neutral stage and I'm unsure of what he actually counterpicks. I think Frigate would be good for him
Also, my friend likes Lylat as a neutral stage and I'm unsure of what he actually counterpicks. I think Frigate would be good for him
Norfair is generally banned anyway. And that's really the only benefit he has there, since you as a tether user benefit a lot there with the platform control. Leave it unless you know he likes the stage.
QUIVO
Smash Master
lol, midwest has janky stages.. im pretty sure we have that stage on.
Doctor X
Smash Lord
I haven't played a good TL in singles since like... December, the last time I played Quivo. He wrecked me.So yeah, I wish I could offer some input but I can't, really.
Counterpick-wise Pits are likely to go to Lylat, Halberd, Delfino, Distant Planet, or Norfair (if they're really campy, even for a Pit main). Anything with soft edges and/or low platforms. Against TL I'm really unsure as to what I'd pick. Probably Lylat. Mayyybe Pictochat.
Counterpick-wise Pits are likely to go to Lylat, Halberd, Delfino, Distant Planet, or Norfair (if they're really campy, even for a Pit main). Anything with soft edges and/or low platforms. Against TL I'm really unsure as to what I'd pick. Probably Lylat. Mayyybe Pictochat.
copacetic
Smash Journeyman
Umm... Pit can plank really well. Like, I'm pretty sure if he does there isn't much way for us to get around it. Thankfully that's pretty much banned now.
yummynbeefy
Smash Champion
its not banned its limited though really all we have to do is back off the edge>jump> uair> jump>arrow> wings> grab ledge> and repeat
but now for my discussion pit does have problems killing sometimes but hes also a good gimper and has a phenominal projectile game to somewhat remedy this however tl can gimp us if done correctly by hitting us during our winged recovery
basicly zair is an enemy for us it outranges everything we have and combos very well
that all i got i cant fight many toon links
but now for my discussion pit does have problems killing sometimes but hes also a good gimper and has a phenominal projectile game to somewhat remedy this however tl can gimp us if done correctly by hitting us during our winged recovery
basicly zair is an enemy for us it outranges everything we have and combos very well
that all i got i cant fight many toon links
I suppose these two characters really haven't had a changed match-up even in 2009.
not surprising though, since it seems Toon Link metagame stagnanted around August, with only little discoveries here and there...seems Pit is in that boat too. Basically almost nothing gamebreaking has appeared for them.
*shrug*
not surprising though, since it seems Toon Link metagame stagnanted around August, with only little discoveries here and there...seems Pit is in that boat too. Basically almost nothing gamebreaking has appeared for them.
*shrug*
Sosuke
Smash Obsessed
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2007
- Messages
- 25,073
- Switch FC
- 8132-9932-4710
TL spaces better
his recovery is better
projectiles are more likely to hit and harder to get around
they both have trouble killing, but I think TL has a better time doing it
and idk, it just seems like TL has a solid advantage.
his recovery is better
projectiles are more likely to hit and harder to get around
they both have trouble killing, but I think TL has a better time doing it
and idk, it just seems like TL has a solid advantage.
Afro Boy2000
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2007
- Messages
- 207
Arrows=Toon links projectiles
Toon link spacing>Pit spacing
Pit off edge>Toon Link off edge
Both can only really kill with one attack (Pit;F-smash, Toonlink; U-smash) but i'd say Pit's one kill move is better.
Id say 50-50. The advantage seems clearly in toonlink's favor on paper but in a match it's not the case.
Toon link spacing>Pit spacing
Pit off edge>Toon Link off edge
Both can only really kill with one attack (Pit;F-smash, Toonlink; U-smash) but i'd say Pit's one kill move is better.
Id say 50-50. The advantage seems clearly in toonlink's favor on paper but in a match it's not the case.
TLMSheikant
Smash Master
I too think we have a solid advantage. 60:40 sounds right no more. Zair is godly in this matchup. Along with bombs <3.