Sesshomuronay
Smash Lord
Im beginning to think we have a slight advanatge on marth.
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~ Wolf's Match-Up's ~
- Thread starter ~ Gheb ~
- Start date
marth on wolf- f throw>f throw> f throw> tipper f smash. 30% and you should be off the stage at that point where wolf, poor recovery, against marths good offstage and gimping game. marth can also dolphin slash out of fire wolf.
well thats my reason, whats yours?
Sesshomuronay
Smash Lord
Wow now im beginning to think its in marths favor now...
I think that against DK and Bowser, we have a bit more of an advantage. Wolf does really well against 'bulky' characters IMO, especially when they don't have a projectile and are not named DeDeDe. Blaster is really too good in these matchups, and it's almost impossible to miss any attack. Gimps are somewhat easier, and the occasional FF uair combos are actually practical. Anyone else agree?
ArcPoint
Smash Lord
That and they don't have as many options as the higher tiered characters..
M@v
Subarashii!
Whoah whoah whoah. you guys DO realize Wolf eats the CG from pikachu badly enough to give pika a significant afdvantage. I actually could of sworn he got CG to 70% like fox does. Wolf gets owned by sheiks ftilt lock. Yet you have 50:50 pika and 40:60 sheik? 45:55 Falco even though he can CG you IN PLACE??
Even with IC's even though they wreck spacies with their CGs?
Some of these matchups need to be SERIOUSLY reconsidered.
And before you start accusing me of stuff, Im a wolf second, so I know what Im saying.
Even with IC's even though they wreck spacies with their CGs?
Some of these matchups need to be SERIOUSLY reconsidered.
And before you start accusing me of stuff, Im a wolf second, so I know what Im saying.
Mav, Wolf's shine gets him out of it.
I actually agree that Sheik should be somewhere around 70-30, that's what we have it over on the Sheik board.
They switched the Falco matchup because obviously teching the spike makes you invulnerable from an edgehog.
I have no clue about the Icies matchup with Wolf. Wolf players must space perfectly with bair or something.
The CG is the only reason why this match-up is even in the first place. If it wasn't for the CG it would be like 7/3 Wolfs favour.
70% is half of Wolfs stock but Wolf has a significant weigth and range advantage and ties in speed. His moves can all easily shut down Pika
Wolf can stay away from the ftilt lock fairly well. Not good enough of course to make it even...
ICs wreck everyone with their infinite....CG or not. Their grab sucks and Wolfs bair keeps them out of grab range well enough.
Go ahead then. We're always open for debate.
We're not accusing anybody. You don't need to play a character to know about his capabilities.
We discussed it with you guys before and everybody agreed on 6/4 so we left it like this. From the vids of Omniswell vs Ankoku it also doesn't look like a hard counter match-up.
Exactly. Falco can't chainspike anybody now that the chaispike can be teched. It's similar to the Pikachu match-up, except that Falco is faster and pressures Wolf defense better. Overall it's still in Falcos favour but it's very managable.
Not at all. All that Wolf has to do is approach - which is the only problem in this match-up. Wolf can easily afford to misspace his bair without getting grabed. His bair has way more range than most peole think. In fact Marth, DK, MK and other long ranged characters are the only ones who require perfect spacing.
What Gheb said >.>
Besides the locks/CGs, wolf doesn't have too much trouble with those opponents. I don't think Wolf gets CG by pika as bad as Fox does, and Falco is seriously just an annoyance past the CG, bair pretty much beats out everything those two have. Sheik, maybe she has a bit more of an advantage. ICs is definitely even though, it's not easy for them to get a grab on you if you can space well.
We're more than open to rediscussing matchups, after all, we want them to be as accurate as possible.
Besides the locks/CGs, wolf doesn't have too much trouble with those opponents. I don't think Wolf gets CG by pika as bad as Fox does, and Falco is seriously just an annoyance past the CG, bair pretty much beats out everything those two have. Sheik, maybe she has a bit more of an advantage. ICs is definitely even though, it's not easy for them to get a grab on you if you can space well.
We're more than open to rediscussing matchups, after all, we want them to be as accurate as possible.
M@v
Subarashii!
I didnt know the shine stopped pikas CG, so I apologize for that. My two main issues still are sheik and ICs. I willl admit fox is slightly more vulnerable to the CG than wolf is. With wolf I think its anywhere from 40:60 to 35:65ICs. Falco isnt really that bad for fox either besides the CG. We are discussing that matchup with the Falco's right now, and its going to be anywhere from even to 4:6 Falco's advantage.
If we decide even or 45:55 Falco, Fox would only have two top tier matchups 6:4 or worse; MK and G&W, who are both probably 65:35 vs fox.
If we decide even or 45:55 Falco, Fox would only have two top tier matchups 6:4 or worse; MK and G&W, who are both probably 65:35 vs fox.
ArcPoint
Smash Lord
Why are the ICs 35:65?
M@v
Subarashii!
When you get grabbed, you will eat the CG. "dont get grabbed" is hard to say against ANYONE fighting the ICs. Wolf can just avoid better than fox can since hes better at camping and spamming.
Turbo Ether
Smash Master
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Wolf only gets chaingrabbed by Pikachu 'til like 40%.
Sheik's Ftilt lock can be mitigated by proper DI.
ICs chaingrab is the only thing that prevents them from being a mediocre character. Wolf isn't exactly the easiest character to grab. ICs grab range is bad, and they have to not be separated.
Falco's chaingrab can be neutralized by blaster/platform camping until 40-50ish percent, in which you can no longer be chaingrabbed.
Also, secondarying a character does not make you an authority on that character. Neither does maining a character for that matter.
Sheik's Ftilt lock can be mitigated by proper DI.
ICs chaingrab is the only thing that prevents them from being a mediocre character. Wolf isn't exactly the easiest character to grab. ICs grab range is bad, and they have to not be separated.
Falco's chaingrab can be neutralized by blaster/platform camping until 40-50ish percent, in which you can no longer be chaingrabbed.
Also, secondarying a character does not make you an authority on that character. Neither does maining a character for that matter.
M@v
Subarashii!
never said it did make me an authority. I just am saying what I have seen when using wolf.
ArcPoint
Smash Lord
Actually, the single IC dthrow chaingrab at lower percents allows them to be separated and still get the infinite CG off, assuming the IC player has enough stage room.
M@v
Subarashii!
which is why you must Ban FD against ICs, whoever you are playing as. FD is their personal ownage ground.
Turbo Ether
Smash Master
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Might wanna ban FD against Falco too. I got a good chance to do dedicated practice teching Falco's chain spike today. It's really super easy to not get spike.
:034:
Smash Hero
Okay, question about the DDD match-up. In the Netherlands, D3's infinite is officially banned, INCLUDING the ones on Ganondorf/Wario/Wolf. How would the match-up be right now? Without the infinite, I'd say it's a lot easier for Wolf.
Also Gheb, be sure to look out for the Europe section in Smashboards, there'll probably be another tourney like end January/begin February. I want to trample your Wolf with Ganondorf again. (:
Also Gheb, be sure to look out for the Europe section in Smashboards, there'll probably be another tourney like end January/begin February. I want to trample your Wolf with Ganondorf again. (:
Personally, DeDeDe would still be wolf's worst matchup... 
But then again, the only DeDeDe I've played is Atomsk, so I might be overreacting. Still, I doubt the matchup would be any better than 40:60.
But then again, the only DeDeDe I've played is Atomsk, so I might be overreacting. Still, I doubt the matchup would be any better than 40:60.It still about 7/3 D3s favour.
Yeahyuhzz!
Can't let you do that, dutchman
7/3 easilyPersonally, DeDeDe would still be wolf's worst matchup...
itsthebigfoot
Smash Lord
Hey, the dk boards are currently discussing wolf
thread here http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=6237949#post6237949
we have it at 6-4 dk adv. right now, but we want to get input from everyone
thanks ahead of time
thread here http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=6237949#post6237949
we have it at 6-4 dk adv. right now, but we want to get input from everyone
thanks ahead of time
DDD is an easy fightKing Dedede
Things to look out for:
- Chaingrab, duh. Don't get grabbed!
- Waddle Dee's. They block blasters and attacks. Not to be underestimated.
- His amazing recovery and weight.
- Beware his range and crazy disjointed hitboxes.
How to beat him:
- Stay spaced, try to stay away from him. Use blasters to outcamp him.
- On the ground, Dedede has a set of laggy and non-laggy attacks. Interrupt his non-laggy attacks with blaster and punish his smashes with whatever you have at your disposal.
- In the air, Dedede outranges most of your attacks.
Explanation:
King Dedede is a bad match-up for Wolf, but you won't get *****. Wolf has a few tricks up his sleeve that he can use against Dedede.
Blasters will help you to stay spaced and to stay away from Dedede. Sure, he can throw Waddle Dee's, but Blaster is better. What else do you need to know? He has mostly more range and more lag. On the ground, his non-laggy attacks (tilts) can be drilled with your blaster. Smashes can be punished. Watch out for his grabs, as he can chaingrab you pretty easily. Pick a stage with platforms so you can stay away from his grabs when necessary. I like to pick Hanenbow, but it's probably not allowed in most tourney's.
Dedede has a great recovery, so trying to edgeguard him will be difficult. With his multiple jumps, and great super armor-filled up+b, all you can do is spike and use bair from the edge and hope it'll work. Remember that his Up+B has SAF until he is at the apex of his jump, meaning you could spike him out of it at the very end, or interrupt when he's coming down to the stage.
Rating:
40:60
Even with the chaingrabs, this match-up definitely isn't hopeless. Wolf still has a good shot at winning, as long as you stay mostly defensive, stay spaced and simply don't get grabbed!
Sean²
Smash Capitalist
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Sesshomuronay
Smash Lord
Actually its wolfs hardest matchup.
Turbo Ether
Smash Master
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Wow, DK boards actually put it down as 6:4 DK's advantage. Lying about matchups is not productive. I actually need to try Wolf against Bum, last time I played him I went Snake.
ArcPoint
Smash Lord
Meh, I honestly don't care if the DK boards put up false info, if they want to do it then let them. The numbers mean nothing.
Sesshomuronay
Smash Lord
I know wolf vs wolf is 50/50 but I feel we should at least discuss what works and what doesnt in the event of a wolf ditto.
And the DK matchup thread is cruddy.
And the DK matchup thread is cruddy.
HeroMystic
Legacy of the Mario
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Hey guys, for the sake of consistency, I'd like to ask if you put Wolf vs Mario down as 55:45 Wolf's Advantage. While it's even for the most part we took into account of Wolf's shine which breaks Mario's combos.
ArcPoint
Smash Lord
Nah, Wolf vs Wolf is 100:0,no matter what happens... Wolf wins that matchup.
kailo34ce
Smash Lord
...anyway i want to know why the snake matchup is 50-50..have you ever played a good snake?..any of the poeple who discussed this?..you can literally bthrow wolf at 20% and easily keep him off with a grenade and a usmash..plus its snake..whos all around a better character,its very hard to gimp him and he deals damage very easily on wolfs laggy moves.snake can live off wolfs kok moves like forever especially if diminished which will prolly happen because its just hard to get to snake,plus he can out camp you and its hard to move aroung through grenade spam when snake can get away fast..
in no way at all an even match up..
thats like calling mk vs marth even...no chance for marth to win at high level play
in no way at all an even match up..
thats like calling mk vs marth even...no chance for marth to win at high level play
I hope these answers some of your questions. You shouldn't base match-up numbers only on your personal experience. You have to take into account how they play at the highest level. Also if it helps you: If you dthrow Snake off the edge he gets into a position where you can spike him.
kailo34ce
Smash Lord
I hope these answers some of your questions. You shouldn't base match-up numbers only on your personal experience. You have to take into account how they play at the highest level. Also if it helps you: If you dthrow Snake off the edge he gets into a position where you can spike him.
personal expriences wtf..you wish you could play the snakes i play,i play people like ultimate razer a DSF
what teh spammerer said is pretty ignorant,you cant outcamp snake and boostsmash..lol
also snakes KO percent is still way lower and he has a better edgeguard game than wolf..with b reversal on snakes nade you dont usually even have the option to predict an air dodge.and snake can set up wolf because he is blantantly a single strike character.
anything wolf can do,snake can do better.
talking about predicting utilt and not accounting for snake predicting dsmash which honestly is alot less useful?
even the air dodging thing,snake will get you first,with usmash etc, you need to be able to at least beat him in strength,speed or range,wolf loses in all catagories
not even a close match..im not even going to get into the other things cuz alot of you will never play the top players in the country like i do..so annoying..annoying annoying useless wolf boards
THINK about it...man **** the wolf boards,you guys need to scrub up and go pro
gheb you play in austria...dont even talk about highest level.
I bet you haven't even tried half of the stuff spam explained. He is a top player - 2nd best in NJ after M2K. And you base your experience from playing DSF, the 3rd best player in the country, who is good amonts ahead from the "good" player. Sorry but if you really say that Snake has the advantage because you played DSF you are the one who's being ignorant. No offense but a in a match-up we assume both players to be equally skilled and you are not as skilled as DSF is and probably not as skilled as Ultimate Razor is (correct me if I'm wrong but didn't he just placed2nnd recently...outplacing DMG and Roy_R?).
And what do you mean about scrubby stuff? I've been to 100ppl tourneys before and I'll take part at two of them this year for sure. Just because you know nothing about the EU smash scene doesn't mean that all EU players are scrubs. At least we are not the ones who complain about MK and we have plenty of good players, so please don't come with stuff that is meant to insult other people.
I'd gladly help you with the Snake match-up but I don't feel like doing so if you ignore it anyways and start putting me down for not living in the US. If you can't beat these Snakes it's probably the players you lose to.
And what do you mean about scrubby stuff? I've been to 100ppl tourneys before and I'll take part at two of them this year for sure. Just because you know nothing about the EU smash scene doesn't mean that all EU players are scrubs. At least we are not the ones who complain about MK and we have plenty of good players, so please don't come with stuff that is meant to insult other people.
I'd gladly help you with the Snake match-up but I don't feel like doing so if you ignore it anyways and start putting me down for not living in the US. If you can't beat these Snakes it's probably the players you lose to.
kailo34ce
Smash Lord
firstly.i love dsf
he isnt 3rd best player in the country.
maybe not even top 3 in west coast
he might barely make top ten
secondly i dont judge everything off of them.
its just the fact that i can beat razer with ddd and not wolf.because MATCHUPS
i can even go even with falco ,and get wrecked with my best character, WOLF
its all blatantly simple if you play all the matches with people i have..
in america snake is a counterpick to wolf.
well in texas at least
snake ***** wolf.quite simply put
he isnt 3rd best player in the country.
maybe not even top 3 in west coast
he might barely make top ten
secondly i dont judge everything off of them.
its just the fact that i can beat razer with ddd and not wolf.because MATCHUPS
i can even go even with falco ,and get wrecked with my best character, WOLF
its all blatantly simple if you play all the matches with people i have..
in america snake is a counterpick to wolf.
well in texas at least
snake ***** wolf.quite simply put
Turbo Ether
Smash Master
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Lol, if you want to bring regions into this, consider that my region (Atlantic North) is literally the best region on the planet, and Wolf goes even with Snake here. Wolf has the weight, range, safety, punishment, mobility, anti-camping and K.O power to keep up with Snake. What good Wolf's live in Texas?
kailo34ce
Smash Lord
me and jumpman.
atlantic north has like m2k and azen..it doesnt make them the best region in the planet.
especially since ally beat the rest or whatever or maybe im wrong
AZEN came to texas and lost to dmg one of our top 5 in region and got sent to losers.
2-0 at HOBO11
snake is god tier and wolf is like middle so i want to see hard proof snake goes even with wolf.prove it or shove it
Turbo Ether
Smash Master
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We have M2K, Azen, Chudat, Ninjalink, Atomsk, Inui, Snakeee, Bum, teh_spamerer just to name a few top players. Yes, our region is the best.
The theories been discussed, best thing to do is play it out and/or observe. You basically came in here and said "lol, that's wrong!". Come to CoT4, Ally will be there, along with people that have solid Wolves. I'll also do the matchup both ways with you if you want.
kailo34ce
Smash Lord
meh id spend money to go to west coast,not east,some top texas p[layers are going though so after they place wherever ill look into it..
hard proof or shove it