Weekly Character Discussion: Kirby

Overswarm · Aug 11, 2008

This guy was a nobody when the game came out, then people thought he had potential, and hten everyone thought he sucked again. But... Chu just got 2nd with him and I've seen a few good Kirby players out there so I thought now would be a good time to catch everyone up with Kirby's current metagame.

Cyphus · Aug 11, 2008

i love kirby..i think he's...mid/high tier matieral.

at low percents: f.throw-upair-grab-any throw is a nice combo
or on heavy targets you can combo off a 2nd f.throw into another upair, f.air, etc.
works as a great combo from 0-10%.

ledgehopped Hammer works nice as a surprise KO.
his f.smash is amazing. Very strong and fast, so its very easy to punish approaches with it by barely moving out the way and going into it. It can also be comboed into from his d.air, although i find it better to approach with an agro style mixing dashing, d.tilt, f.tilt, f.airs, b.airs, and UpBs if you can.
Speaking of which, his f.tilt is amazing, its reach isn't bad at all considering its rediculously fast and great at poking.
I dont find myself using his dash attack all that much, even though people talk like they'd nut on it.

He's not too well comboed by anyone, but you can occasionally pull off some nice 4 hitters like UpTilt, UpAir, B.air...etc...his combos are very situational, yet he deffinately has some fluidness to his movement that lets his offenses keep.
Both his F.smash and D.Smash (vertically) can KO at 100% easily fresh. And i donnot find it hard to land either, especially since kirby has a very evade-counter style.
His recovery is ok..not great. Its easy to edgehog his UpB, but situations where that would work, are rarer than not.

I've only started 2nding Kirby a week now, so i'm not totally farmiliar on his worst/best matchups...but he seems to do fairly well versus MK, Snake, and other high tiers.
You can copy TORANDO, L O L
if MK gets too aggressive in the air you can KO him with Rock at like 80%

Kirby avoids snake's projectiles quite easily, and using Grenades, once you've copied him, works really well i find.

KishPrime · Aug 11, 2008

I've always loved him. Haven't played him enough to contribute much, other than his fsmash is amazing.

chillindude829 · Aug 11, 2008

kirby is highly underrated IMO, i'd put him on the same level as marth/ROB to be perfectly honest. i'm only saying this based on chu's kirby, but chu's kirby is an extremely difficult matchup with any character. kirby has some ridiculous stuff.

Overswarm · Aug 11, 2008

Does Chu have any vids? If not, you should get some so we can see

chillindude829 · Aug 11, 2008

he might have some team vids, otherwise i dont think he has any. i doubt he'd want them up either, otherwise every kirby player would just become a chu clone... reminds me of IC's in melee

Smash G 0 D · Aug 11, 2008

I almost recorded a couple of Chu's matches but decided against it..

Yeah Kirby is definitely underrated. I agree with him being in Mid/High tier. He's got some sick combos and, as said, Fsmash is amazing.

Final Cutter is a lot better in this game IMO. People don't always expect it and it's a nice projectile-ish move.

I'm glad they ditched the spinning aerials hammer and gave Kirby two regular hits instead. The second hit sends them sideways so you can catch your opponent off guard if you time your hammer weirdly.

kirbykid · Aug 11, 2008

Kirby kinda stinks. Better than sucky Melee Kirby, but pretty bland over all.

I should know. Though I haven't seen Chu's Kirby, I'm going to go with experience on this one and say that this situation is exactly like the famed "isai kirby" that wasn't very good.

Kirby is my Rob and Ike counter so far, but he's really falling behind just like he did last gen.

SamuraiPanda · Aug 12, 2008

I want to do something different and weird for the hint this time, because I feel like screwing with people, but I can't think of what to do for Kirby thats different. Anybody have suggestions?

Also, I'll throw my two cents in for Kirby later. I loved the little guy for awhile, but I've kinda become jaded to him recently.

Overswarm · Aug 12, 2008

Just try to make it sound like iether jiggs or kirby and they'll go nuts

Zankoku · Aug 12, 2008

Or add a trait of the special from each unused character but make it sound realistic. Like, "This character has extraordinary priority, a solid projectile game, and some powerful KO moves."

g-regulate · Aug 12, 2008

i think chu has just become really good at brawl, and does stuff that most kirbys try to do, but fail miserably at (hammer/spikes/winning). I think most people who excel with a character at this point in the game simply have more experience and a desire to win.

Overswarm · Aug 13, 2008

I have yet to see any Kirby with a reliable approach. Whenever I've messed with him or seen anyone else mess with him, Kirby gets destroyed no matter what he does to approach. The best he's got is to bait his opponent and then work from there. How does Chu approach?

Cyphus · Aug 13, 2008

kirby is more a defensive character, like Lucario. but his f.air is easily his best approach. poke and weave back; not that you can rely on it soley, but its often useful i find...elsehow, i'd say his b.air works great if you dip and puff right outside their range and occasionally poke it out.
I think kirby is best played teasing the oponent, using his evasion, then punishing with his f.tilt/f.smash/b.air mostly.
I use duck + D.Tilt alot...i'm not sure why though. It doesn't do much damage..but my guess is i've subconciously found it useful in making the oponent change their approach, while i'm ready to adapt accordingly.

if you edgehog someone with a laggy UpB..you can always ledge-hop hammer them. Works really well against marth.

Overswarm · Aug 19, 2008

This character received very little discussion.

Synopsis:

Kirby's moveset works well for him in practically every way save for approaching the opponent. When approaching, Kirby can become predictable and vulnerable as a result. On defense though, Kirby's well spaced aerials and grabs he can actually combo out of (!!!!) make him a danger to approach. Kirby's recovery is boosted tremendously by his over-b and his down+b can be used from time to time to allow him quick and safe passage to the stage.

Kirby has a few weaknesses, such as his limited approach and light weight, but these weaknesses are all supressed at high level play and as such leave Kirby many options open. Kirby will undoubtedly be a dangerous character to play against and a hard character to play as, making him one of the few characters that will be consistently surprising their opponents.

Dabuz · Aug 19, 2008

man, im to late, i could of added that his inhale can be used as a surprise attack that lets him bring opponents into the air where he can combo and his dtilt and jab combo can both be combo into forward smash

Snail · Aug 19, 2008

Aw, it's sad my little friend got so little discussion. Oh well, can't be helped.

feardragon64 · Aug 19, 2008

Granted it's already been mentioned(that he has some cool combo's out of grabs), I think kirby has some awesome potential for racking up damage.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=181898&highlight=footstool

Gonzo has been making amazing strides with kirby. Though this may be character specific(and not to the highest tier characters other than possibly G&W?), it's a good representation of his potential. Something worth noting.

Kirbicide is overdone so it's nothing that really needs to be talked about that much. Everyone expects it, and it might get him a lucky stock over his opponent, but probably more rare at high level of play.

I have to agree with Smash G O D on final cutter. It's a projectile that people tend to underestimate. It's not the best move, but it's actually a pretty decent "surprise" move when you're constantly being approached. Also, it allows for a pretty nice amount of DI during the initial phase, so it's safer on block....not entirely safe but safer. The fact that it also will curve with the floor is also somewhat nice...though that's nothing huge. Overall, when it's not overused, FC doesn't have too much lag considering that it's pretty safe on block because of its disjointed hit-box and the fact that it allows for so much DI during the move.

Final note, I think kirby's learning curve is interesting. He's an incredibly easy character to pick up, so he's pretty appealing to newbies. But unfortunately, after that everyone seems to hit this brick wall that's hard to get by. But if you do manage to get past it, there's a huge potential unlocked with this little puffball.

That's my two cents

cutter · Aug 19, 2008

Kirby can actually pose a lot of problems copying a few characters' B moves. You can use 'nades against Snake, tornado against MK, lasers against ROB, bite against Wario, and arrows against Pit (might be tougher since he has reflectors). That's some of those characters' best moves turned against themselves

psykoplympton · Aug 19, 2008

even falco and wolfs blasters cause a lot of problems.

i think kirby should be played defensivly until theres an opening like in melee, except in brawl he has a lot more openings.

no matter how good falco shdl's he cant hit a crouching kirby. kirbys size combined with jumps and dodges makes him excelent vs campers. especially since he can copy some and use them back.

and as for kirbicide. its so predictable i dont use it very much. inhale has to be so close to someone and there arent many good leads into it as there were in melee.

spacemanspiff · Aug 19, 2008

I picked up Kirby about a month ago... most buffed character barring G&W maybe? Personally i find the infinite jump pretty useless though i've seen people try and utilize it a few times. I like to chase by matching their height and waiting out their air dodge and punishing with a hammer. I'm having a bit of trouble though if someone would care to give input. I haven't yet found a use for the n air other than to punish short hoppers. I've also been finding it tough using the brick lately.

Uffe · Aug 19, 2008

Kirby is "one tough cream puff!" I used to main him back in SSB64. I stopped playing him in Melee because he got nerfed. His attacks didn't feel like they could kill. His uair in Melee was awesome, though. I've been play him a few times in Brawl and I might play him more if I can get used to him better.

~Gonzo~ · Aug 19, 2008

Kirby's Bair IMO his staple approach attack, running A is not bad if ur opponent is above ur b/c the hitbox extends above him. Dtilt is excellent when ur opponent doesn't want to approach u, it can trip and lead into grabs. Fair not bad the second hit is the best to combo with b/c it draws the opponent towards Kirby. His Inhale is his greatest assest. When used at the right time it can get a cheap KO and become a tide turning kill. Also many character's hats become better when Kirby uses them. Example, Samus charged shot. Stays closer to the ground making it harder to shield. Kirby can edge camp with the gun very easily. TL's hat. His arrow comes out just as fast but Kirby can arrow cancel by just SHing. Falco, not always useful but when attack Falco when he's recovering it becomes a very easy way to gimp his recovery. MK's hat adds a lot of recovery / protection potential to Kirby making the matchup a little easier.

Thats my two cents on Kirby and Chillin is right on not wanting vids out of Chu's Kirby i could c how everyone would start emulating his exact style.

~Gonzo~ · Aug 19, 2008

spacemanspiff said:
I picked up Kirby about a month ago... most buffed character barring G&W maybe? Personally i find the infinite jump pretty useless though i've seen people try and utilize it a few times. I like to chase by matching their height and waiting out their air dodge and punishing with a hammer. I'm having a bit of trouble though if someone would care to give input. I haven't yet found a use for the n air other than to punish short hoppers. I've also been finding it tough using the brick lately.

Nair is a good approach when ur above ur opponent cuz Dair has to much startup lag and it autocancels when u hit the ground with no lag so u can go straight to another move.

spacemanspiff · Aug 19, 2008

To Gonzo: touche touche. for TL users i find they like to recover from directly below the stage. so i like to FF onto them with a D air for an easy gimp KO. have you played Chu?

EDIT:
and thanks for the tips on the n air. i tend not to approach from above though. I find Kirby too punishable from above. getting caught in U smashes isn't too fun. i'd rather just space my B airs.

cutter · Aug 19, 2008

psykoplympton said:
even falco and wolfs blasters cause a lot of problems.

True, but they have their shines to get around lasers easier.

spacemanspiff · Aug 19, 2008

cutter said:
True, but they have their shines to get around lasers easier.

those two hats are most useful IMO for ledge guarding. easily gimps the already terrible spacie recovery

~Gonzo~ · Aug 19, 2008

thats tru, Wolf's laser is absolutely necessary against him. Wolf just has to many tricks to frustrate Kirby players. When u've got ur opponent's style / rhythm its easy to use the blaster to slow their pace down and it also opens up time for grabbing or Bair

CaliburChamp · Aug 19, 2008

Also, Kirby's N-air is very much underated. Because with N-air it auto cancels when it hits the ground, and you can fast fall N-air, and since it doesnt knock characters back so far away, you can immediately grab them, then rack up more damage from Kirby's awesome grab combos.

Dabuz · Aug 19, 2008

if your gonna nair just start up a bair from a little back then use that cause it ground cancels and combos into forward smash

~Gonzo~ · Aug 19, 2008

u can use it best when recovering from the ledge also. I'm sure everyone knows u can Bair on to the stage with Kirby. U can actually do any aerail onto the stage. Nair being an interesting one cuz it'll autocancel as soon as u hit the ground meaning u can protect urself from most anything ur opponent has to hit u back off the stage.

spacemanspiff · Aug 19, 2008

forgive me. but when you say b air onto stage do you mean with a ledge hop or just spaced perfectly so you land while the hitbox is still open

~Gonzo~ · Aug 19, 2008

ii mean ur hanging from the ledge

u let go of the edge, turn around jump, and Bair

Warp$tar Lover · Aug 19, 2008

Kirby

Smash64: Great

Melee: Sucked (3rd lightest character, could be beaten easily, even at level 9)

Brawl: Kick-*** awesome (Now 8th lightest, numerous combos, unpredictable moves, what more do you want?)

In Brawl Kirby appears to have gotten much better than his mediocre Melee performance. He's gotten heavier, his aerial side-b is no longer that terrible 360 hammer swing thing, but is instead two simple sweeps of the hammer (Very useful for surprising an opponent) wicked combos (e.g Fthrow, Fair 3x, D-air, then quickly finish it with side-B). Simply put, Kirby is waay better in Braw than in Melee Hands down.

Tomato Kirby · Aug 19, 2008

spacemanspiff said:
forgive me. but when you say b air onto stage do you mean with a ledge hop or just spaced perfectly so you land while the hitbox is still open

I was going to suggest that ~Gonzo~ might mean that the entire Kirby counts as a hit-box during this move, although I guess he already clarified.

Blackbelt · Aug 20, 2008

Kirby is awesome.

Seriously, Kirby is just darn good, and with some tourney results, I could see him in very high tier.

TwilightKirby · Aug 20, 2008

IMO biggest problem with nair is if they block the hitbox then they can't be hurt by nair anymore and you are stuck in a useless nair until you touch the ground. This means that its easy to shield grab kirby out of it or if its a tall character they can possibly fsmash you before you hit the ground if your nair hits the top of their shield.

Dabuz · Aug 20, 2008

why is it that AFTER the discussion is over everyone starts talking? also, nair ive learned is actaully really good at blocking most single hit air approaches

~Gonzo~ · Aug 20, 2008

they didn't put the hint up until like last minute so no one really knew. I was looking forward to it but missed it so now that its here we got 2 put are two cents in.

And Bair on to stage i mean u let go of the stage, jump so ur facing away from the stage, and then Bair towards the stage. If u do it all fast u'll land on stage,

Nair is not a move that should be used often nor in bad positions. Use it when u know u'll counter ur opponents hit or ur far away enough to maybe cancel a projectile. It should really be used unexpectedly b/c it is predictable and easily countered by shields

Dabuz · Aug 20, 2008

yeah but it can be used someimes for for some grreat surprise attacks, now onto that forward smash

Weekly Character Discussion: Kirby

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