Okay seriously, we need a sticky about this issue...

laronde · Aug 3, 2008

Seriously, had enough about these comments from players who keep bashing stuff like,

IKE IS CHEAP! RAWR!!11!11!!!!

. Seriously, my friends and brothers keep bashing me about it and are completely indenial, so much, that they even say that Ike's recovery is good. I'm not saying Ike is bad, but I seriously do feel we need some "10 reasons why Ike isn't cheap" topic.

I just can't handle this crap anymore. I imagine more people got encouraged into saying "Ike is cheap" discussions because of Brawl Taunts (which I loved). I even recall going into a tournament about people saying "Booo!!!" to anyone who took Ike, Jesus Christ, some people were actually good over there, just makes me sad.

Yeah, this was mostly a rant topic, but as an Ike user, frustrates me that I have to deal with this bullcrap.

Falconv1.0 · Aug 3, 2008

Since when do characters who are on the mid to low slots on the tier list need such topics?

Ike doesn't need a 10 reasons why he's not cheap because he's not that good, ****, Kirby is more cheap.

laronde · Aug 3, 2008

Falconv1.0 said:
Since when do characters who are on the mid to low slots on the tier list need such topics?

Ike doesn't need a 10 reasons why he's not cheap because he's not that good, ****, Kirby is more cheap.

If you were here, listening to the responses with the guys I have to deal with, you'd understand my pain....

Rykoshet · Aug 3, 2008

It doesnt matter, if they cant get past ike then god forbid they ever come across a better character, which is like half the ****ing roster.

Zake · Aug 3, 2008

Heres a ten.

1.Ike is slow
2.for a heavy, hes REALLY light
3.Ike's forward smash is strong but you hit with it like, 7% of the time?
4.if Ike is shot back and he's slightly under the stage, he can't recover
5. Use Mid air dodge to stop Aether, is it really that hard?
6. 80% of Ike's attack have serious lag.
7. He has NO RANGE
8. There are times where Ike can't connect a finisher, because hes too slow.
9. Ike's counter isn't cheap noob, use grab.
10. King Dee Dee Dee's inhale will DESTROY you, if you Quick Draw into it. Dee Dee Dee is Anti-Ike, use him if you hate Ike

got any more? this is all i can think of.

Falconv1.0 · Aug 3, 2008

laronde said:
If you were here, listening to the responses with the guys I have to deal with, you'd understand my pain....

You see, here's the problem, I dont have this issue because anyone like around me thinks I'm a God due to my superior knowledge of Smash (I mean compared to them, lol), and when someone makes claims like "Ike is amazing, Ike is cheap, so is Marth, Brawl takes no skill" I promptly punch them in the back of the head with a flaming fist.

Same applies to those who stall with MK's down b.

EDIT: @Zake: 2 is kinda questionable, 7 is way wrong, and your reasoning as to why DDD beats Ike is flawed as hell.

Kinzer · Aug 3, 2008

laronde said:
I even recall going into a tournament about people saying "Booo!!!" to anyone who took Ike, Jesus Christ, some people were actually good over there, just makes me sad.

Yeah, this was mostly a rant topic, but as an Ike user, frustrates me that I have to deal with this bullcrap.

What...the...****?

Falconv1.0 · Aug 3, 2008

Kinzer said:
What...the...****?

Holy **** somehow I actually missed that part of his post.

You went to a ****ing horrible tourney. Never go there again. Ever.

:034: · Aug 3, 2008

1. Ike is sloooowwwwwww.
2. He doesn't have a projectile.
3. Or a good way to counter projectiles.
4. His recovery is really bad.
5. And predictable.
6. Combine 4 and 5.
7. Ike is slow.
8. At least half of the cast is better than him.
9. Ike isn't all that good at and against edgeguarding.
10. Ike is slllooooooooowwwwwww.
~~11. You get no sympathy from him.~~

Falconv1.0 · Aug 3, 2008

Flying Dutchman said:
1. Ike is sloooowwwwwww.
2. He doesn't have a projectile.
3. Or a good way to counter projectiles.
4. His recovery is really bad.
5. And predictable.
6. Combine 4 and 5.
7. Ike is slow.
8. At least half of the cast is better than him.
9. Ike isn't all that good at and against edgeguarding.
10. Ike is slllooooooooowwwwwww.
~~11. You get no sympathy from him.~~

Now there's a list I can see reasoning behind, lol.

I question his "no sympathy" statement. His best friend is a half furry emo, I think Ike is pretty much oozing sympathy there.

Rykoshet · Aug 3, 2008

I dunno too much about the edgeguarding statement, at least the "At" part, against I can see being valid.

XACE-K · Aug 3, 2008

Falconv1.0 said:
I question his "no sympathy" statement. His best friend is a half furry emo, I think Ike is pretty much oozing sympathy there.

I laughed at that.

Anyway the people who think Ike is cheap obviously

1. Never heard of tier lists
2. Never heard of competitive Smash
3. Never played Snake, Dedede, or MK

Just ignore them and say STFU. Or you can beat them with Falcon and tell them that he's the cheapest character in the game.

Ussi · Aug 3, 2008

1. Ike has seriously post and pre lag
2. He is easily combo'd
3. He is chain grabbed by a lot of people..at least to 20% (Marth gets a tipper at the end of his)
4. He was jipped of a projectile so he could satisfy Roy fans with a fiery B move. (Which failed)
5. His recovery is easily gimped. (Marth is the worst to face when coming back to the stage)
6. He has no AT's
7. One of the hardest competitive learning curves
8. He has a bad match up with Bowser
9. Try to keep up with Sonic (And i mean a real sonic who is...so dam fast with him)
10. He fights for his friends, but how many does he have?

StoleUrCar · Aug 3, 2008

All your opponents are horrible, horrible scrubs.

Zake · Aug 3, 2008

Falconv1.0 said:
You see, here's the problem, I dont have this issue because anyone like around me thinks I'm a God due to my superior knowledge of Smash (I mean compared to them, lol), and when someone makes claims like "Ike is amazing, Ike is cheap, so is Marth, Brawl takes no skill" I promptly punch them in the back of the head with a flaming fist.

Same applies to those who stall with MK's down b.

EDIT: @Zake: 2 is kinda questionable, 7 is way wrong, and your reasoning as to why DDD beats Ike is flawed as hell.

Ike HAS NO RANGED ATTACKS.
only in your face melee attacks.

ddd is good against Ike, his Waddle Dee's will make you waste your quick draw, and make you die if your in the air.

Ike is SLOWWW and he only weighs as much as captain falcon.

Falconv1.0 · Aug 3, 2008

Zake said:
Ike HAS NO RANGED ATTACKS.
only in your face melee attacks.

ddd is good against Ike, his Waddle Dee's will make you waste your quick draw, and make you die if your in the air.

Ike is SLOWWW and he only weighs as much as captain falcon.

1.) Range and projectile are two different things, lol. Have you not seen the range on his fair, etc?

2.)Quit using QD like a moron, DDD is good against Ike because he can CG him as easily gimp him with aerials, not because Waddle Dees stop QD, stop being a noob. >.>

3.)Ike's attacks are slow, and he has some quick ones, his movement is fine.

Zake · Aug 4, 2008

Falconv1.0 said:
1.) Range and projectile are two different things, lol. Have you not seen the range on his fair, etc?

2.)Quit using QD like a moron, DDD is good against Ike because he can CG him as easily gimp him with aerials, not because Waddle Dees stop QD, stop being a noob. >.>

3.)Ike's attacks are slow, and he has some quick ones, his movement is fine.

I was just pointing out that ddd has a cheap trick up his sleeve. ddd has more moves that are good against Ike, i know that, if you get knocked back really far but not high, using QD is your only option, then ddd can throw a waddle d to block your path, if you don't QD YOU DIE. I'm not being a noob, i know what i'm doing, just cause i'm new to the forums doesn't mean i'm new to the game, stfu.

I SHOULD have said projectile NOT range (i think a projectile as a RANGED ATTACK), that would have made things more clear. Ike's sword has good reach.

I just say things weird, i'll try to fix it.

to me...

Range = projectile
Reach = range

most of Ike's move are slow or have serious lag, you can't say i'm wrong about that.

i know Bair and aaa and all the fast ones but, MOST of them are slow, just saying.

lil cj · Aug 4, 2008

I know Ike has his flaws(Ike is one of my 7 mains)
But why r u Ike mains saying bad things about your own character?
Im jus saying

Ike can be dangerous if played right.
He may be slow but he is still the best heavy weight.
He even has Quick Draw to make up for his lack of speed.
Ike has strong defenses like 2 super armors and counter
and powerful aerials for approaching.
Many players fear Ike b/c one mistake and their gone.
Ike can even beat Metaknight, it can be done.
Im a noob Ike and not as good as most of u(I win a few matches)
but if u work hard with Ike he will show amazing results
Kirk's Ike is a good example....we can all learn alot from him

Im jus trying to lighten things up
Ike is great!

Tenki · Aug 4, 2008

Ussi said:
9. Try to keep up with Sonic (And i mean a real sonic who is...so dam fast with him)

Hi Ussi <3

:laugh:

Zake said:
Heres a ten.

1.Ike is slow
2.for a heavy, hes REALLY light
3.Ike's forward smash is strong but you hit with it like, 7% of the time?
4.if Ike is shot back and he's slightly under the stage, he can't recover
5. Use Mid air dodge to stop Aether, is it really that hard?
6. 80% of Ike's attack have serious lag.
7. He has NO RANGE
8. There are times where Ike can't connect a finisher, because hes too slow.
9. Ike's counter isn't cheap noob, use grab.
10. King Dee Dee Dee's inhale will DESTROY you, if you Quick Draw into it. Dee Dee Dee is Anti-Ike, use him if you hate Ike

got any more? this is all i can think of.

`.`; I guess most of them have truth to it, but I don't like some of them.

1. Thank goodness most Ike mains use the faster moves the majority of the time in actual gameplay.
2. Don't play him like a heavy and try to tank moves like you would with Snake.
3. Mindgames are the answer. Play smarter.
4. DI. But otherwise, true.
5. Here's a better idea- walk away from aether and hit/grab/monkey Ike when he lands.
6. So use them deliberately.
7. lol. I saw this was addressed already, but once you DO get in a close-quarters fight, he has a definite range advantage on pretty much anyone.
8. If you can damage someone high enough, uncharged Eruption and QD all kill, as well as tilts. Jab is a nice way to set someone up for something.
10. Don't be predictable and stop using QD on Dedede.

Zake said:
I was just pointing out that ddd has a cheap trick up his sleeve. ddd has more moves that are good against Ike, i know that, if you get knocked back really far but not high, using QD is your only option, then ddd can throw a waddle d to block your path, if you don't QD YOU DIE. I'm not being a noob, i know what i'm doing, just cause i'm new to the forums doesn't mean i'm new to the game, stfu.

"cheap"?

Oh, while we're at it, Ganondorf can do that vaccuum thing to Ike too.

And if you DI moves correctly (upwards is the best for Ike/Ganondorf) and float toward the stage instead of charging QD, you can recover with Aether.

Ussi · Aug 4, 2008

Hi Tenki ;D

Yes my #9 was in reference to Tenki

doom dragon 105 · Aug 6, 2008

ike has its ups and down hes ok there are better people in the ame looks at meta, marth, toon link, pit ect.

close the thread its **** near useless

and Zake you dont know what your talking about only a little

what happened to the old ike boards when our only problem was rok and not these annoying noobs

Monjula · Aug 22, 2008

The good:

Ike has reach!

And sadly, with that giant sword he carries, no projectile.

Ike has QD!

Which can be gimped as a recovery. Or an approach.

Ike has n00b destroyer! (Fsmash)

That will get you laughed out of the room if you try it on anyone who's played Ike more than 2 times.

Ike has a no landing lag aerial!

Unfortunately, the rest of his moves have rapeable lag.

Ike has Aether!

Which can be gimped easier than many recoveries in the game.

Ike is fast!

...er than maybe 4 characters?

...Wait wait wait. What? This isn't a thread to give our character props, but instead drag him to the dirt? Lame! So...What, we're supposed to say things that EVERYONE ALREADY KNOWS?!

>_>

Deleted member · Aug 22, 2008

I think Ike is kind of unfair and I main him. Best range and priority combination in the game makes him extremely hard to fight up close. Not only that, his attacks hit with ridiculously large hitboxes, kill from 80, and stay out because they're "slow" so using dodges vs him is much riskier than it is vs other characters. For the average character, Ike can just attack his opponent's attacks, as he'll almost always outrange them, out-prioritize them, or both. If you know what you're doing, half of the cast has no answer for fighting Ike, so they're reduced to spamming like little *****es.

But it doesn't end there either. Since Ike is one of the few characters in Brawl that has solid attacking options, if you can roll dodge or shield dash through the spam, you have a good chance to kick your opponent's when you get there, unlike the usual case where projectile camping leads to a different type of camping so the attacker is always at a disadvantage. Ike also has good grab release set-ups, so shield camping him with Brawl's amazing shield mechanics isn't a good idea either. Ike is extremely hard to defend against.

Ike also has the tools to avoid gimps. Gimps happen to everyone once in a while, but first you can choose not to use quick draw if that's what gets you killed- Ike, when hit at a standard trajectory, can DI up and toward the stage and use up B and get both more vertical and horizontal distance from up B overall. Ike also has tools to avoid marth's counter, pit's shield, and the like.

Is Ike cheap? Well, you have a character with amazing attack properties, and no really horrid punishment for being such a powerful character.

XSilvenX · Aug 23, 2008

Umbreon said:
I think Ike is kind of unfair and I main him. Best range and priority combination in the game makes him extremely hard to fight up close. Not only that, his attacks hit with ridiculously large hitboxes, kill from 80, and stay out because they're "slow" so using dodges vs him is much riskier than it is vs other characters. For the average character, Ike can just attack his opponent's attacks, as he'll almost always outrange them, out-prioritize them, or both. If you know what you're doing, half of the cast has no answer for fighting Ike, so they're reduced to spamming like little *****es.

But it doesn't end there either. Since Ike is one of the few characters in Brawl that has solid attacking options, if you can roll dodge or shield dash through the spam, you have a good chance to kick your opponent's when you get there, unlike the usual case where projectile camping leads to a different type of camping so the attacker is always at a disadvantage. Ike also has good grab release set-ups, so shield camping him with Brawl's amazing shield mechanics isn't a good idea either. Ike is extremely hard to defend against.

Ike also has the tools to avoid gimps. Gimps happen to everyone once in a while, but first you can choose not to use quick draw if that's what gets you killed- Ike, when hit at a standard trajectory, can DI up and toward the stage and use up B and get both more vertical and horizontal distance from up B overall. Ike also has tools to avoid marth's counter, pit's shield, and the like.

Is Ike cheap? Well, you have a character with amazing attack properties, and no really horrid punishment for being such a powerful character.

Oh REALLY?! This actually made me rofl. I immediately thought about the countless number of times where I got gimped at relatively early percent in tourney when you said it's hard to gimp Ike.

How to gimp Ike..? Throw him off, throw something so he's forced to airdodge ...wait for Aether, quickly grade the ledge...laugh. Now of course it isn't that simple but it sure happens enough in tournament to make a difference. And no, of course that isn't the only way to gimp Ike...if you play someone who actually KNOWS how to play the game and knows how to hold the ledge at the right time Ike's "amazing" recovery isn't so amazing. In fact vs. a good player it's really risky if they know you need to grab on to the ledge.

And you must be joking about the shield camping part. Sorry but Nair to "AAA" gets shield grabbed easily...and yah, spaced Fairs with "AAA" as cover only get you so far...times aren't that simple anymore. Ike can get shield camped HARD! Especially vs. DDD who's grab range is ridiculous.

Honestly I think you're basing your post off of biased personal experience and wifi perhaps..? Because if you ever went to a tourny in your life you'd automatically know that Ike doesn't exactly rule the game. He's as basic as any character can get and most horizontal attacks (Meta's dsmash for example) kill him immediately after 80% or so because of his crappy...yes CRAPPY recovery. People who can't get over Aether usually aren't good players anyway and don't know that you can't edgeguard a "sword" but you can surely punish Ike at certain points within that attack animation.

Adam_ · Aug 23, 2008

Ike's are usually played for fun, not competitively.

legion598 · Aug 23, 2008

ikes only form of sympathy is to tell his opponent to prepare themselves

Speedsk8er · Aug 23, 2008

OMG guys. Shut the **** up. You act like you main CF or Jiggz. ****.

>______________________>

Devil7 · Aug 24, 2008

Speedsk8er said:
OMG guys. Shut the **** up. You act like you main CF or Jiggz. ****.

>______________________>

LOL you forgot gannies as well. Seriously ike isn't horrible. He actually has some decent options at his disposal. The actual problem with ike isn't the character its that most people are to busy complaining abouut how much he sucks (this also applies to ganny, CF, and jiggz) and not enough time developing his metagame. NO WONDER HE SUCKS

NeroDB · Aug 24, 2008

In my opinion i enjoy Ike not having any projectiles, he's purely focused on close combat. it gives an awesome feel when you beat a character that has ranged projectiles

Regarding about your friends, They should

1) Get on their computer
2) Register on www.smashboards.com
3) Visit the Ike section
4) Post their opinion why they think Ike is cheap
5) Get back fired.

Speedsk8er · Aug 24, 2008

Devil7 said:
LOL you forgot gannies as well. Seriously ike isn't horrible. He actually has some decent options at his disposal. The actual problem with ike isn't the character its that most people are to busy complaining abouut how much he sucks (this also applies to ganny, CF, and jiggz) and not enough time developing his metagame. NO WONDER HE SUCKS

I see less complaining in CF and Jiggz. And they're far worse characters.

Jesus ****ing christ...

>_________________>

null55 · Aug 24, 2008

This is extremely stupid. Anyone who thinks Ike is a cheap character hasn't played anyone good and/or has ever been to Smashboards. The end.

Izaw · Aug 24, 2008

Ike isn't cheap, he fights for his friends.

No but really. Not cheap :/, he's my third char and he's awezum

Roager · Aug 24, 2008

People who say Ike is cheap are stupid. He has really good melee range and lots of power. But his severe lack of speed, mobility, and recovery mean that he can't legitimately be called cheap. He is a good character. No doubt about that. Cheap: not even close. It sucks to hear scrubs *****ing and whining. It truly does. But *****ing and whining to us about it sucks too.

Deleted member · Aug 24, 2008

XSilvenX said:
Honestly I think you're basing your post off of biased personal experience and wifi perhaps..?

The only competitive players I have played are chillin, chu, and azen. and they're better than me but I win sometimes and I don't get ***** too badly. No johns.

PltnmNgl · Aug 24, 2008

Speedsk8er said:
I see less complaining in CF and Jiggz. And they're far worse characters.

Jesus ****ing christ...

>_________________>

Wow. You look at the Ike threads? wow...

Anyway, you should pick up a top tier character and show them what cheap really is.

/thread

i.E. · Aug 25, 2008

Zake said:
Ike HAS NO RANGED ATTACKS.
only in your face melee attacks.

ddd is good against Ike, his Waddle Dee's will make you waste your quick draw, and make you die if your in the air.

Ike is SLOWWW and he only weighs as much as captain falcon.

That's because captain falcon is 0 percent body fat and 100 percent MUSCLE.
lol.

Kiyosuki · Aug 25, 2008

He can be a little cheap in 4 way matches, especially in timed non-stock matches because he has that forward and up smash that are deceptively powerful and god knows in more chaotic 4 ways they get plenty of opportunities to do it when you're busy, but that's not the same thing as a character being too good. Hell even in Anyone games if you play those occasionally, as long as you're not fighting like a mindless lunatic...like a lot of people there do, usually Ike-opportunists that think they're gonna win the whole thing just "fishing" for people with those two moves don't even do that well. I bet most of this comes from people who play a lot of Anyone, and this one particular flash movie..

JesiahTEG · Aug 25, 2008

Zake said:
7. He has NO RANGE

Are we talking about the same Ike here? The one in Brawl? The one with the really really long sword?

Nah, you must be talking about a different Ike

Roager · Aug 25, 2008

JesiahTEG said:
Are we talking about the same Ike here? The one in Brawl? The one with the really really long sword?

Nah, you must be talking about a different Ike

He meant no projectiles.

Empy · Aug 25, 2008

Izaw said:
Ike isn't cheap, he fights for his friends.

No but really. Not cheap :/, he's my third char and he's awezum

Hey your going to IBD the 27th of September right? I'll see you there then hope to get some friendly dittos in.

/off-topic

Now there are a few things I've seen being said over and over again where I don't really agree with, might not be this topic but overall it seems to be the general idea about Ike.

First of all, Ike is dangerous. To everyone. He's not just a noob killer, he can kill anyone even on a single mistake. And the longer you play against an opponent the easier they get to predict.

Second of all, Ike can be used competitively. Yes sometimes it might be better to counterpick. But that goes for any character. However, the majority of the matches are very well possible with Ike.

Third of all, Ike's biggest problem isn't projectiles. Seriously, approaching can be made a bit harder with them. But stuff like the landing lag on your aerials is way worse. However, his biggest issue imo is his weight. Characters that can chaingrab or combo easily take way too much advantage of this.

And lastly, Ike shouldn't be played as some punisher for opponents mistakes. Instead, pressure them all the time. If they make a mistake, of course you punish it, but that goes for any character. In fact, a lot of Ike's moves being so slow makes him bad at punishing, it's better to just use your fast moves as you like and force your play upon your opponent.

Okay seriously, we need a sticky about this issue...

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