Samus help vs. SHFFL/SHL Falco?

HT F8 · Jul 10, 2008

Before I start, unfortunately, I do not have any videos... yet.
I'm going to play with my friend that I have a major problem with today though, so hopefully I'll be able to get at least one.

But the situation is:
I'm rather new to the competitive play of Melee... a tiny bit late, I know.
I can wavedash alright, not yet perfected though.
I still haven't integrated L-cancelling into my gameplay.
I can pretty much beat all the Melee players in the immediate area except for my friend PR.
He has a sick SHFFLing Dair/SHL Falco. I get 3 and 4 stocked alllll day.
I'm running out of ideas on how to at the very least, get damage in!

If I try any sort of missle spam, I get SHL'd bad.
If I play aggressive, he'll just SHFFL his Dair and plow me into the ground over and over to the point of where I can't react, or even UpB out. And no, I can't DI out. I've treid plenty of times.

He plays extremely aggressive compared to the other players around, and even a lot more aggressive than most of the pro vids.
He knows the game so well, though, that he can be that aggressive and still own me.

So, I know at the moment I'm simply outskilled. He's a lot better than me.
But does anyone have any ideas of how to push me a little closer to a few victories?

P.S. I know it's hard to critique without videos... sorry.^^;
Just looking for any glimmer of hope from my superiors.

soap · Jul 10, 2008

my first solid falco experience scared the **** out of me back in the day. just move around in between lasers and look for openings, dont sit there in ur shield. jump, wavedash out of shield, try to powershield, shoot homing missiles. mix it up

HT F8 · Jul 10, 2008

soap said:
my first solid falco experience scared the **** out of me back in the day. just move around in between lasers and look for openings, dont sit there in ur shield. jump, wavedash out of shield, try to powershield, shoot homing missiles. mix it up

Yeahhh, it's scary. O.O

Thanks for the tips, I'll give some of those a try.

MikeHaggarTHAKJB · Jul 10, 2008

Bait him to you with missiles (preferably missile canceled, if you cant do full jump double missile just do one missile in a SH

) and crouch cancel to d-smash or d-tilt.

HT F8 · Jul 10, 2008

MikeHaggarTHAKJB said:
Bait him to you with missiles (preferably missile canceled, if you cant do full jump double missile just do one missile in a SH ) and crouch cancel to d-smash or d-tilt.

Thanks. :D

I'll probably do a lot of missle cancelling today, my friend's pretty good with Samus and hopefully will teach me a bit.
Missle cancelling = SH L-cancelling missles?
I think. @_@

Yeah, I've been CCing a lot to my Dtilt and Dsmash, it's the only way I've been getting him down to 3 stocks. :D

Haha. Thanks again.

rhan · Jul 11, 2008

I know one main thing to do aginst a SHLing Falco. Keep up a big shield until he gets close enough so you can up B out of shield.

I'm not sure if you know how to get the big sheild up but it's rather simple. Just slightly hit L or R and you'll see Samus pull up her sheild but it will look lighter and more transparent then usual. Most Falco players will start aproching with lasers and try to grab. As soon as he gets close enough, drop your sheild quick and up B. Try not to jump cause the ariel up B is slower then the grounded one. Try practicing it in training mode.

Corigames · Jul 11, 2008

All you have to do to beat an aggressive Falco is to Up B out of your shield. He will approach you with lazors every time and, if you stay in the shield, you won't be hurt/stunned by them. Then, when he's in close, he will go for the Dair or the grab and that's when you up B. It will interrupt him and get free damage, somewhere around 10%. Then, tech chase him. Get him off the edge quickly and use Samus' awesome edge guarding to stop him early.

The end.

HT F8 · Jul 12, 2008

coreygames said:
All you have to do to beat an aggressive Falco is to Up B out of your shield. He will approach you with lazors every time and, if you stay in the shield, you won't be hurt/stunned by them. Then, when he's in close, he will go for the Dair or the grab and that's when you up B. It will interrupt him and get free damage, somewhere around 10%. Then, tech chase him. Get him off the edge quickly and use Samus' awesome edge guarding to stop him early.

The end.

Thanks rhan and coreygames.
Yeah, I know about the lightshielding.

So basically keep my guard up till he goes for the Dair/Grab?
Sounds like a plan.
I've been trying to UpB out of his Dair spams once I get caught in 'em and it rarely works, I'll try to get a preemptive strike on him.

As for Samus' edgeguarding, what do you recommend?
UTilt, I'm guessing?

rhan · Jul 13, 2008

Utilt is excelent in edgegaurding. Also since Falco's recovery sucks it's easy to edgehog him. As long as you can hit Falco while off stage he's basically going to die from his own weakness. Being a fast faller with bad air recovery.

ArcNatural · Jul 13, 2008

Missile canceling does not require L-canceling, anytime you do a missile in the air if your still in the shooting animation when you land it will autocancel (just like Falco's SHL). trying to SH fastfall a missile cancel is extremely hard (harder than multishining or super wavedashing). Just a regular SH to missile cancel or a full jump fastfalled to missile cancel is better. Learning to double missile via platform dropping is useful too.

Your best options against Falco is basically what everyone as said. Learn to be somewhat decent at powershielding and waveshielding. Waveshielding is really useful in this matchup as you can throw off his shffl positioning when he tries to approach you and you can still reach him with downsmash/fsmash or a ftilt. Learn to wavedash Ftilt, this will be a great pressure move when you think he is going to try to retreat and SHL.

If your really good at timing, if a Falco shffls into you and your shielding, you should always be able to upB and hit them. On platform stages being able to waveland well will help you close gaps. Also work on trying to smash DI the shine or Drill once your being combo'd. While you do get out rather early as Samus, getting out even earlier always helps.

HT F8 · Jul 14, 2008

Thanks again rhan, and Arcnatural.

So hit him once he's off the stage / edgehog. Sounds good.

I'll go practice some Missle Cancelling right now, thanks for the info.

Hopefully I'll get to play against him again soon with this new strat. I'll post and let everyone know how it goes.

Any other tips, feel free to post before then. I'll keep checking back.

-F8

HT F8 · Jul 26, 2008

-Phoenix Down-

Oh, by the way, does anyone know of a good Samus AT Guide?

I need to perfect some techniques, and I don't see any ATs in Aftermath's guide on here.

AIDS · Jul 27, 2008

F8 iS RiPPiN said:
-Phoenix Down-

Oh, by the way, does anyone know of a good Samus AT Guide?

I need to perfect some techniques, and I don't see any ATs in Aftermath's guide on here.

I am about to make a intro to Samus Thread.
I will try to put much detail in, feel free to comment it and ask questions afterwords.

otg · Jul 27, 2008

Wait, you're from Newburgh? Is this guys name Chris?

HT F8 · Jul 27, 2008

otg said:
Wait, you're from Newburgh? Is this guys name Chris?

Me? Yes, I'm from Newburgh, but no, he isn't Chris. It's my friend Mikey.

I see you don't live too far off from here, though.

rhan · Jul 27, 2008

KEWL! ONLINE BUDDIES! lol jk.

Ummm....I think Phanna made a vid on "Samus tips and tricks" once. Or it might have been someone else. Pretty sure it was Phanna though. My memory is foggy. :/

AIDS · Jul 27, 2008

Phanna has some, but they are more for show, they do not go into detail.
You could be thinking of "how to play - advanced" videos done by wak. but it is general, not based around Samus.

HT F8 · Jul 27, 2008

rhan said:
KEWL! ONLINE BUDDIES! lol jk.

Internet predators are even kewler! ;D

Yes, I've seen phanna's amazing videos, but as AIDS said, they don't really explain "How-To".

And Wak's vid guide was very good, I learned quite a bit.

otg · Jul 27, 2008

Well nah, the reason I ask is I have a friend named Chris who plays Falco and lives in Newburgh. I taught him how to wavedash and what not, so it would've been interesting to find out that he was taking names up there now. Regardless, good luck.

Watty · Jul 27, 2008

match is all about spacing. You cant be to close or u get pillared and if ur to far away u get spammed. u want to stay about a forward tilt away and just constantly be that distance from him. if its FD i advance shooting missiles till i get close, than wait for him to come at me and up b out of my shield. This lets him know that **** aitn gonna fly. I than just stick to him mixing in tilts, sometimes grabbing JCing and up b him. if u have platforms USE THEM! mc off them mix in homing make him have to work for those lasers, but its hte same concept as FD its all about spacing.

HT F8 · Jul 27, 2008

Watty said:
match is all about spacing. You cant be to close or u get pillared and if ur to far away u get spammed. u want to stay about a forward tilt away and just constantly be that distance from him. if its FD i advance shooting missiles till i get close, than wait for him to come at me and up b out of my shield. This lets him know that **** aitn gonna fly. I than just stick to him mixing in tilts, sometimes grabbing JCing and up b him. if u have platforms USE THEM! mc off them mix in homing make him have to work for those lasers, but its hte same concept as FD its all about spacing.

Thank you, oh great and powerful Watty.<3

I'll try it out this week when I get to play him.

HiIH · Jul 27, 2008

GIVE IM THE BOOT!

<.<; Sorry I'm unhelpful.

HT F8 · Jul 27, 2008

HiIH said:
GIVE IM THE BOOT!

<.<; Sorry I'm unhelpful.

NAIR FTW. ;D

Haha. It's all good.
Sex kick is the only thing that's worked so far, thanks to the 3 miles of range it has over Falco.

HT F8 · Jul 27, 2008

Double post. >_<

AIDS · Jul 29, 2008

This match is also about being gay with platforms and shields, Wattys spacing can work, but if you up B out of shield when they try to shield pressure you then they will get punished, and can not punish you.

With my less abusive style of Samus it has a lot to do with your shield/platforms game i find, I would pick battle field for this stage and wait on the left or right platform, fall with a missle, shield any spam and waveland into shield on the platform again.

It is all about controll

Big_R · Jul 29, 2008

yo just gimp falco and slow him down. if he's too aggressive when he hits ur shield up b him. if he starts to go for too many grabs spotdodge to d smash. if he shields start jab cancelling on it and wait for their next move then hit them outta that.

samus should make falcos play pretty differently from other characters with his close up game. u gotta make the falco think about up that up b b4 they ruch u down. if there's platforms u can mix up falling thru or edge canceling after an up b and pretty much spam it all over the place if he's too close. then when falco is on the edge tilt like watty said and they will do dumb stuff a lot fo the time.

HT F8 · Jul 29, 2008

Big_R said:
yo just gimp falco and slow him down. if he's too aggressive when he hits ur shield up b him. if he starts to go for too many grabs spotdodge to d smash. if he shields start jab cancelling on it and wait for their next move then hit them outta that.

samus should make falcos play pretty differently from other characters with his close up game. u gotta make the falco think about up that up b b4 they ruch u down. if there's platforms u can mix up falling thru or edge canceling after an up b and pretty much spam it all over the place if he's too close. then when falco is on the edge tilt like watty said and they will do dumb stuff a lot fo the time.

Thanks AIDS and Big_R!

Wow, seems like all the good Samus's have a bunch of great advice.
Thank you everyone!

I know I keep saying I'll be playing him soon, but plans fall though... a lot.
I'll post the results asap.

<3

soap · Jul 29, 2008

Big R is the best samus in the midwest

AIDS · Aug 7, 2008

soap said:
Big R is the best samus in the midwest

Probably due to the fact that I am west coast. =) Lawlz.

Eggm · Aug 7, 2008

I got vids of my falco vs my crewmate treble uploading as we speak hes very good vs falco and the matches were from this morning. He wins most of them I think, try to read guides and learn the correct terminology then practice some of the stuff you read about so you can understand what hes doing in the vids better, then mimic him. xD

Big_R · Aug 8, 2008

AIDS said:
Probably due to the fact that I am west coast. =) Lawlz.

false.
my samus would fronzle urs

:D

AIDS · Aug 9, 2008

Big_R said:
false.
my samus would fronzle urs

:D

lawl XD
We will see, I might just have to play you some day =) Show you the true.........Crouch Cancle DownSmash! lol

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