Diddy Kong [Old] General Match-Ups

ADHD · Mar 15, 2009

MdrnDayMercutio said:
I need helpful tips and ideas against Peach. I keep running into Peachkid in tourney's and the matches are close but he usually pulls out ahead. What're good and bad stages for her, and any tips you guys can provide other than "Wait for her to land and fling bananas than"

I'm sick of getting denied better placement cause of this silly match up.

Fair, peanuting her boobs, and SH monkey flip humps/grabs get her out of the air. Just get distance and **** her when she's on the ground. Also, utilt out of shield gets her away if she's directly floating above you dair'ing you. Utilt when the last hit of the dair is over. Nothing else is hard about this matchup.

As for link, he's just an easier version of toon link but he lives to larger percenatges.

MdrnDayMercutio · Mar 15, 2009

Utilt OoS is something I hadn't tried. I feel dumb now.

I gotta work on OoS stuff since I turned tap jump off and got really used to it.

Thanks.

chimpact · Mar 15, 2009

Link has no options in the air and if you CP RC, you can win by just running away and occasionally throwing projectiles.

In this matchup I just try to use his boomerang against him. When he throws it I go inside it and use the momentum of the (wind) boomerang to punish em. I use upthrow a lot since Link is a fast faller and his aerials are trash. Link really is a pretty easy matchup, except he lives longer than you, but you can combo him easy and edgeguard as well.

Player-1 · Mar 15, 2009

yoshididdy said:
Link has no options in the air and if you CP RC, you can win by just running away and occasionally throwing projectiles.

In this matchup I just try to use his boomerang against him. When he throws it I go inside it and use the momentum of the (wind) boomerang to punish em. I use upthrow a lot since Link is a fast faller and his aerials are trash. Link really is a pretty easy matchup, except he lives longer than you, but you can combo him easy and edgeguard as well.

I'd rather choose FO

sasook · Mar 15, 2009

I dunno how Link does against Diddy on RC specifically, but in general, RC is actually one of Link's best stages.

For aerials, nair and bair are pretty quick and effective, but that's really it. Maybe if we're realllyyy high we might use dair.

As for the boomerang thing, that may be harder than you expect. A good Link knows where his boomerang is at all times. Plus, his main projectile is his bomb, not his boomerang.

Still, Diddy is quicker, combos quite well, and hard to touch especially with his glide tosses. You'll find that using a lot of fthrows and bthrows actually work well in this matchup. 7/3 Diddy's favor, I'd say.

BoRn · Mar 17, 2009

Lol legan and arkive zero are both like 2 hours from me and they gotta be the best ( only ) links out there. Link match up is sooooo fun. And even as skilled as they are i never lost a tourney set to them and almost never lose friendlies ( hax :3 ) lol.

Ide say treat it like a toon link match as well how ever your gonna NEED to gimp at early percents other wise i think its past like 70-90%( not to sure exactly ) link will be able to di every knock out and recover until after 170%.

I would keep him off the ground with aerial combos and when he is on the ground space well and banana game. Try to use those methods and finish with spikes and hump gimps as soon as you get the chance. Every one and their mom knows links vertical recovery is horrible.

Id say any stage with a bottom kill zone like fd, sv, bf etc... Is a good stage. Stages like brinstar and norfair that u cant get vertical gimps and spike will make the match up a lil challenging but it should always be in diddys favor no matter what stage.

sasook · Mar 18, 2009

Umm, is no one going to post? lol

I would, but I've already given my 2 cents.

BoRn · Mar 19, 2009

I was feeling lonely for a bit there but i didnt want to double post lol.

white peachy · Mar 19, 2009

sasook said:
Umm, is no one going to post? lol

I would, but I've already given my 2 cents.

It's probably bc it's link....lol.

sasook · Mar 19, 2009

Yeah, that's the reply we usually get v_v

"LOLink = lulz gimp gg"

But, makes it more worthwhile because the look on a person's face when they just got beat by a good Link is priceless.

Nitrix · Mar 22, 2009

If Link isn't getting gimped, he is pretty good. His projectiles are annoying to get past, and his smashes are pretty strong.

Overall though, I find that he isn't very hard to combo because he falls like a rock and has little aerial maneuverability.

Then again, the only link on my wifi friends list doesn't like to pick up bananas.....

but it should always be in diddys favor no matter what stage.

O_o Really? I think that Link should have a decent chance on Norfair, since his tether can help him not get gimped so quickily and he can shoot arrows when the lava rises.

Le_THieN · Mar 22, 2009

Nitrix said:
If Link isn't getting gimped, he is pretty good. His projectiles are annoying to get past, and his smashes are pretty strong.

I don't have extensive experience against Link, but I play around with him on and off every now and then, I've always recognized that Link would be something of a powerhouse if it weren't for his terrible recovery. His smashes and tilts are frighteningly strong and swift and high-priority; his F-smash in particular has a great deal of speed and range due to his lunges and the disjointed properties of his sword. His jab is arguably more versatile due to the numerous options he gains jab-canceling, and the speed and range of his jab makes it somewhat difficult to DI.

What Link lacks in aerial maneuverability is made up by the sheer speed of his fast-fall. F-air has atypical timing on its hit-box and tends to catch people off-guard a lot from what I can tell (especially due to people's general inexperience in the Link match-up). N-air is a great option for baiting spot-dodges and punishing them, and I bet you that most people don't even know that Link can approach with falling and rising B-airs with SHed B-air and then immediately activating his second jump right after the stunningly short cool-down on B-air ends. Link is generally forced to commit in a single direction once he approaches from the air, but he can clear distances in a surprisingly short amount of time.

As I have said in the past, Diddy Kong doesn't really have any pure, 100% **** match-ups. Link, for as "bad" as he technically seems on paper, is no exception. This match-up is still largely unexplored, and even though many of us seem to agree that Diddy still has somewhat of an advantage, that's no reason to slack off in a set against this guy.

On a separate note, I have several matches recorded with an up-and-coming Sheik player in Texas named Light. Would anyone be interested in seeing these?

ADHD · Mar 22, 2009

Captain falcon can't do anything thien, diddy completely ***** him in every aspect except if diddy is above him in the air.

sasook · Mar 22, 2009

Nitrix said:
O_o Really? I think that Link should have a decent chance on Norfair, since his tether can help him not get gimped so quickily and he can shoot arrows when the lava rises.

Actually it's all bomb spam on Norfair xD. That's his best stage. His second best stage is Rainbow Cruise, though I dunno if that's a good Diddy stage. Third best is probably Halberd and/or Brinstar.

Nitrix · Mar 22, 2009

Link on Battlefield is decent if he doesn't get gimped. His U-Smash does a nice job of juggling people who land on the platforms.

Has anyone played a Link that uses the Hookshot? That seems like it would help him in this matchup.

Captain falcon can't do anything thien, diddy completely ***** him in every aspect except if diddy is above him in the air.

Unless thats sarcasm, we are on Link

Actually it's all bomb spam on Norfair xD. That's his best stage. His second best stage is Rainbow Cruise, though I dunno if that's a good Diddy stage. Third best is probably Halberd and/or Brinstar.

....What? How is Rainbow Cruise his 2nd best stage? Link seems like he would have a hard time staying on the stage, let alone scoring kills.

Jeet Kune Do · Mar 23, 2009

I can imagine Link doing okay in this matchup, the only qualm I would have about using him is that it seems like it would be very hard for him to deal with the bananas...

Nitrix · Mar 23, 2009

I can imagine Link doing okay in this matchup, the only qualm I would have about using him is that it seems like it would be very hard for him to deal with the bananas...

I think that Link might be average at dealing with bananas. He is a bit slow, but he has the projectiles to maintain pressure. The Boomerang can be spammed, and the bombs are decent for combos (I think).

His Boomerang is pretty annoying, and the whole gale effect can cause some fun shenanigans.

sasook · Mar 23, 2009

Nitrix said:
Has anyone played a Link that uses the Hookshot? That seems like it would help him in this matchup.

Link's zair is the move that has kept him from absolute bottom on the tier list. It's an absolute MUST for him, all good Link use it.

Nitrix said:
....What? How is Rainbow Cruise his 2nd best stage? Link seems like he would have a hard time staying on the stage, let alone scoring kills.

This is what most people tend to think.

"RC has a lot of jumping and aerial movement - Link sucks in the air, and his recovery is pretty bad. RC must be a horrible stage for him."

Truth is, RC is a great Link stage because he can actually control the stage very easily due to his projectiles and his spacing. What's even better is that people tend to CP this stage against us, and then they get shocked xD. The look on their face is priceless.

As for this particular matchup, I'm not sure how Diddy does on RC.

stealthwarrior17 · Mar 24, 2009

Link can match Diddy with projectiles and has superior range overall. However, with really no air game and bad...bad...really bad recovery, he is easily knocked off the stage and kept off. Diddy's speed can destroy Link when combined with his air game.

AvaricePanda · Mar 25, 2009

Diddy does pretty well on RC. Banana control on the boat is pretty good, and they can be used on the top platforms. Plus, Diddy can maneuver well in the air and his aerial game is good, and because he kills to the side, killing's often easier for him.

I don't have much Link match-up experience, so sorry. But as far as I can tell, spacing is pretty crucial. What messes me up a lot is the Gale Boomerang; that thing just stops you in your tracks, lol.

Off the bat, most Link's don't approach and instead try to eat up your approaches with his good projectile game. If you're too far away from him, you'll probably suffer at least a little percent from the bombs, arrows, and boomerangs trying to get towards him. However, once you're past all that and spaced decently enough to the point where he's more wary of using projectiles, getting a banana combo is much easier.

If you pull off a grab, up-throw. You probably don't want to risk a back throw and having to deal with a boomerang, and then having to struggle to get back at the ideal range at Link. His Boomerang can be used to make you back up, like if you're aggresive and try for an offstage fair or other aerial.

His kill moves are relatively easy to deal with. Predicting them, or at least DIing out of them, is pretty easy. Dair is really predictable, upB is punishable if it misses, etc. Just don't get too aggresive while dealing with his projectiles and run into an obvious fsmash. Space yourself well with bananas and sheildgrabs.

Timbers · Mar 26, 2009

interrupting here, but Lucario boards are discussing the Diddy matchup.

http://www.smashboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=172

Staco · Apr 1, 2009

Zamus : Diddy
60 : 40
Weak
Quote:
If you mess up prepared to be stunned to death. You WILL be punished if you have approach her poorly. I find that Diddy's side b is the best, but too easy to sheild grab if you use a kick and with no kick you have to be closer to grab her, which can be troubling if she gets her stun gun out.

I think this MU is wrong.
You can simply spam peanuts, to get Zamus to approach.
Then punish her with bananas.
And her range wont be far enough against peanuts, if she has to approach with spam, because then its close enough for your nanerz. =)

AvaricePanda · Apr 1, 2009

If you don't mind, can I gather information from the match-up pages and make in-depth summaries like for what Le_Thien did for MK, Yoshi, D3, Falco, and Wolf? Those summaries really help compared to scouring through pages of match-ups.

(unless Le_Thien still wants to do them in his same format or something, then I can do them).

Le_THieN · Apr 1, 2009

AvaricePanda said:
If you don't mind, can I gather information from the match-up pages and make in-depth summaries like for what Le_Thien did for MK, Yoshi, D3, Falco, and Wolf? Those summaries really help compared to scouring through pages of match-ups.

(unless Le_Thien still wants to do them in his same format or something, then I can do them).

We talked about this on and off before last year ended, and my plan was to revisit the match-up thread in after we passed the one-year mark of Brawl. Aside from D3, none of the match-ups I covered have really changed that much, but match-ups with other characters have changed significantly. I wanted to let the ebb and flow of these match-ups settle into some sort of recognizable groove before I tackled them again, since many of us were inclined to file the lot of the lesser-known cast away under "**** match-ups in our favor." There are even lots of new, little things to focus on and worry about in match-ups that we were already familiar with, including characters such as Marth, MK, and Snake.

Now wouldn't be a terrible time to take another look at that thread, though. I'm still on board for doing a complete overhaul of the thread, but anyone else that is willing to lend a helping hand in this area is encouraged to do so. As for me, I probably won't touch it again until after WHOBO next weekend, when I take my knowledge back to the grinder, just to see what happens. =)

Player-1 · Apr 1, 2009

I think we should do Lucario or Ice Climbers next, Lucario boards just finished talking about us, I was in their discussion until it ended and most people came to agree it was 55-45 so the Lucario matchip shouldn't take long.

moocowmoo272 · Apr 2, 2009

wow

Are these actually real?
Or are you just playing some of your friends random characters and seeing how you do. Diddy does NOT have this many bad matchups. He's high tier for a reason.
65-35 Jiggs. Are you kidding me?
How the hell does yoshi have the advantage.
Pit has the disadvantage. He may have two reflectors but they are both extremely easy to avoid.
Samus should be more around 45-55 seeing as how she bounces so high whenever diddy throws bananas at her. And she is a heavyweight, and can easily disrupt diddy's recovery unless you are careful.
Don't make this a general statement for the diddy boards. At least update it or something so we don't look like idiots.

Le_THieN · Apr 2, 2009

moocowmoo272 said:
Don't make this a general statement for the diddy boards. At least update it or something so we don't look like idiots.

LOL. "We" who? 'Cause you ain't ****.

/hung over

ADHD · Apr 2, 2009

Samus is the worst piece of crap in the game I think she's only fun to watch get ***** by better characters.

Boofy! · Apr 2, 2009

you just made yourself look idiotic enough for everyone buddy

Vyse · Apr 2, 2009

ChromePirate said:
Samus is the worst piece of crap in the game I think she's only fun to watch get ***** by better characters.

Samus and Sonic are my two favorite low tiers purely because people don't like either of them

This is also why I like to see Mew2King win

Kaptain Kong · Apr 2, 2009

lol, he's not low tier though...

edit: everyone just hates him
cept when he's playing mango on the ec

Coyn3Masta · Apr 2, 2009

moocowmoo272 said:
Are these actually real?
Or are you just playing some of your friends random characters and seeing how you do. Diddy does NOT have this many bad matchups. He's high tier for a reason.
65-35 Jiggs. Are you kidding me?
How the hell does yoshi have the advantage.
Pit has the disadvantage. He may have two reflectors but they are both extremely easy to avoid.
Samus should be more around 45-55 seeing as how she bounces so high whenever diddy throws bananas at her. And she is a heavyweight, and can easily disrupt diddy's recovery unless you are careful.
Don't make this a general statement for the diddy boards. At least update it or something so we don't look like idiots.

lolwut....?

DUB · Apr 6, 2009

Week 15A: Donkey Kong

Match-Up Estimate 6 : 4
This match-up is slightly in Diddy's favor.

DK's Advantages:

Superior Range
Has a quick long range tilt game
Great horizontal recovery
Long Glide Toss
Kills way earlier then you do

Diddy's Advantages:

Superior Speed
Can Mildly camp DK
Racks up damage fast on DK
GT OoS will get you through f-tilts,smashes, bairs and most spacing moves
D-tilt pokes DK's below average shield well

Specific Match-Up Points

DK's Down B has some serious range. If a naner is laying around and he feels like you might dash attack over it he will probably ground pound. It covers massive range and will trap you if your stuck on the ground. If you sense it, it is easy to punish with a SH Aerial.
Watch for Super Armor. One of the easiest things to do in this matchup is to dash attack right into a Donkey Punch. You also want to be careful about the Grounded Spinning Kong. There is super armor in hte start of the move. You really want to avoid this because it eats shields and can do 20+ damage.
When recovering off-stage never come up from directly under DK. Up+B Ledgestalls and Spikes will almost always keep you from getting the ledge. If you can get the Diddy Hump go for it. DK's recovery is not too hot vertically and he will more then likely die.
DK's Glide Toss is extremely long and can lead into some fatal trips. You can be headbutted, DK punched, and many more options out of his GT. Watch for it. It's extremely punishable by GT OoS since he remains in throwing animation for some time.

Will finish soon!

fource · Apr 13, 2009

Can we update this?
Its been saying we've been on link for a while now...
I don't really care who we talk about next as long as there is something to discuss.
The fact that this thread hasn't moved makes me feel as if we are not progressing Diddy as fast as we could.

MdrnDayMercutio · Apr 14, 2009

Did we cover Wario?

And does anyone know the best percents to start attempting to kill Yoshi? Cause I have no idea where he lies weight wise...

Just curious since we've been on Link for awhile.

fource · Apr 16, 2009

MdrnDayMercutio said:
Did we cover Wario?

And does anyone know the best percents to start attempting to kill Yoshi? Cause I have no idea where he lies weight wise...

Just curious since we've been on Link for awhile.

I don't know if we've done Wario, that's a match up I'd like to go over though.
Yoshi is fat. Like stupid fat. It's basically a 50/50 match-up though. Yoshi has the release chain grab on us and it takes us forever to kill the **** thing. Since Yoshi is such an awkward character, you really do have to know the match-up or practice with a Yoshi frequently.

MdrnDayMercutio · Apr 16, 2009

Yeah, I was hoping someone would have some good tips, cause I've got Green Ace in my region, and I don't want to deal with him...

rvkevin · Apr 16, 2009

When he's shooting eggs from far away, glide toss towards him and you will go under them...Keep the banana pressure on, Yoshi doesn't have good OoS options so they rarely shield...Learn Yoshi's physics, his trip animation seems awkward compared to most of the cast, his attacks are deceptively long, and he CAN grab you even if there is a banana in between you and him. Save your side B to avoid being punished on landing.

MdrnDayMercutio · Apr 16, 2009

Turtle, you're like the single most helpful person when it comes to getting my Diddy to improve. Thanks bro.

Player-1 · Apr 16, 2009

Player-1 said:
I think we should do Lucario or Ice Climbers next, Lucario boards just finished talking about us, I was in their discussion until it ended and most people came to agree it was 55-45 so the Lucario matchip shouldn't take long.

bumped 10 chars

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