CorruptFate's Pit match up (Dead go to Master thread)

Hey_its_YO · Jul 21, 2008

i play Nacker every ****ing day i think i can help with this.

1.rob is ****ing huge.
wen at far distance its easy to get multiple arrows on rob in the air seeing how hes hard to miss.
this bigness is also a bad thing. when trying to recover robs Bairs become his whole body so air dodging sometimes doesnt work. robs long range ftilt is also a proplem if trying to aproach
2.rob hurts in the air
rob can do his Fair just as fast as pit n can do it multiple times if u try 2 fight back. robs neatrul-air is also a move that is very tricky n can kill pit if your not paying attention. if a rob is ledge camping n u aproach pit can get Uaired easily
3.robs ground game
when fighting rob close combat its realy anyones game.pit's jab is very fast and is his best choice.grabbing rob is im****ingpossible, his spot dodge is way to fast n trying to grab will result getting Dsmashed.
all and all this is either a neautral fight or rob has some advantage. i have alot more but my wii wont let me type nymore

CorruptFate · Jul 23, 2008

OP updated: where it says p.14-17, 14 is now a link to page 14 for fast travel. I will also be getting links to other match up thread for the other members of the cast so you can see what they say in there match up against Pit.

And links to 2 related threads: The Brawl match up chart, and Dr. X's Pit team strats thread.

Now its MK's turn, I list a few things that I think will come up to get talk started but you can talk about other things It just looks like the talk is about the few things I post feel free to talk about more.

Again please say who has the advantage in the match up and how big of one, so I can put it in the OP corectly

Few things:

His Up B is godly

people have trouble with a tornado spammer (don't just put how to stop it but other things as well)

his speed and low/no lag

reach

side step down smash

size

Doctor X · Jul 23, 2008

CorruptFate said:
His Up B is godly

Always be ready to airdodge it when you're recovering. If he recovers with it? Mirror-shield his glide-attack close enough to the edge and it will send him off.

people have trouble with a tornado spammer (don't just put how to stop it but other things as well)

Ftilt and dsmash beat the tornado on the ground, and if you hit him from above most of Pit's aerials will take him out of it. A smart metaknight will generally only tornado when you're not prepared to respond to it-- in the air but not high enough to hit him from above, or throwing another move-- so aside from simply knowing which moves beat it, you want to train yourself to avoid being in such situations.

One important thing to remember is to never, ever try to spot-dodge or roll-dodge the tornado. It will never, ever, ever work. If you can't out-prioritize it with a move of your own, shield it and keep your shield up. Don't drop it until he moves away from you or his move ends. Then maybe you can punish it.

side step down smash

Try to avoid landing next to him. Use nairs or delay your attack until after the spot-dodge. You can usually powershield the downsmash and follow with your own if you need to.

his speed and low/no lag

reach

size

Not much you can do about these specifically. They just make him a heck of a lot harder to deal with than most characters.

I say, overall, MK has a major advantage. He isn't unbeatable by any means, but he is one of Pit's more difficult matchups.

kown · Jul 23, 2008

This match up separates the new pits form the more experienced pit players.

okay so my advice is dont roll.

CorruptFate · Jul 23, 2008

-His Up B is godly

His up B is a pain he already has one of the better recoverys in the game and his up B just tosses him up more. Don't arrow spam to edge guard MK they want you to. His up B brings him up a good distance then give him a glide if you hit him out of the glide then he can up B again. So you don't wanta give him that again so arrows are out. Mirrior works well here, fair might but you have to have perfect spaceing and timing.

-people have trouble with a tornado spammer (don't just put how to stop it but other things as well)
Most Mk's don't tornado to much I put this up here because many people seem to have a problem with it.

If he takes you into the air with him you can get out of the hit stun faster then he can get to the ground so use that. Mirrior the tornado just to through him off, stop it with attacks that have been stated and just avoid it in general.

-his speed and low/no lag, reach, size

As the good dr. said there isn't much you can do about his speed, reach, and size. You just have to find an opening and take it. For the reach its all spacing but with his reach and yours being very close and him being faster then you might not be able to do much. Size is a problem as it makes it harder to hit with arrows, and attacks in general.

-side step down smash

Grab him or AAA if you are ever next to him in this situation.

In genral I would say pit is at a disadvantage for sure, I would even go as far as to say a major disadvantage here.

You best bet in this fight is to spam your nair, and upair as the are multi hitting, auto canceling, high priorty, and fast... All things MK has on most of his attacks, so its not a for sure thing but the best I can see.

kupo15 · Jul 24, 2008

i dont play this matchup often but get good at the mirror shield. Also, esp at the beginning of the match, its better to let the MK and any faster character over Pit to approach. You cant match their speed on the ground so dont fight it, but everyone is about equal in the air.

Dont use arrows or smashes alot, its too slow

Admiral Pit · Jul 24, 2008

Up-B, Godly!?
It pretty much has good vertical killing ability when used from the ground, and if u r right by him, and it comes out fast, but not as fast as Marth's. This is perhaps the best Up-B when it comes to killing.

Tornado spammers
Seeing how this moves pretty much cancels out almost anything that Pit has, (Pit's arrows, Pit's Angel Ring, Rapid A, basically almost all of Pit's attacks), it really gives Pit a hard time when noobish players spam this. Ways to counter it is to use arrow looping and aim the arrow into the "mouth" (from above) the tornado, shield it (NOT Mirror Shield) until Meta finishes, then quickly attack, or try a D-air from above.
Some say that a timed Mirror Shield will reverse Meta's direction.

Sidestep Dsmash
Similar to the annoying ROB's, just say more painful and spammable. It may be predicable if u were facin a noob who would spam this. You could just try to predict it and counter it.

Speed with low/no lag
The one move that I see with the least lag is the Usmash, but even that is somewhat fast. Obviously his U-air is the U-air with the least lag and therefore makes it the most spammable U-air. I should know since I use MK myself. Pit may have to sometimes rely Shieldgrabbing or an attack outta the shield to land some hits. For my experience, you really must have patience.

Reach
F-tilt outprioritizes Pit's Rapid A, and Angel Right, and even rivals the range of some of his other good-ranged attacks. However, Pit's D-tilt barely outprioritizes Meta's Rapid A thing. Basically this poor angel has less range than Meta. You're pretty much done for if a Meta pursues you off the edge while you are using the Up-B to recover... his air range is just, long.

Size
Hard to hit him with arrows, or basically with any attack, and Meta's speed doesnt help.

Im pretty sure a Pit with great Meta experience (like me) would be able to counter many of these, and learn from both spamming and decent MKs. Facing speed chars are annoying anyways, especially when they got some KO moves... In this case, Meta gots too many of them, compared to other light chars.

Ryanarius · Jul 24, 2008

Admiral Bowser said:
Up-B, Godly!?
It pretty much has good vertical killing ability when used from the ground, and if u r right by him, and it comes out fast, but not as fast as Marth's. This is perhaps the best Up-B when it comes to killing.

Tornado spammers
Seeing how this moves pretty much cancels out almost anything that Pit has, (Pit's arrows, Pit's Angel Ring, Rapid A, basically almost all of Pit's attacks), it really gives Pit a hard time when noobish players spam this. Ways to counter it is to use arrow looping and aim the arrow into the "mouth" (from above) the tornado, shield it (NOT Mirror Shield) until Meta finishes, then quickly attack, or try a D-air from above.
Some say that a timed Mirror Shield will reverse Meta's direction.

I don't want to go to deep into metaknight because I know I won't be able to control myself so just a couple quick points.

His up b is really deadly. One of his primarily gimping tools is reverse crazy loop to hit you with the part where he's upside down. This can gimp you around 40% depending on how far off the stage you are. Be ready to airdodge it and just watch for its spacing. In addition metaknight has his fair to keep you off the edge and his dair is perfect for stage spikes. The point being don't be careless off the edge. A lot of matchup you can snag some free damage while your off the edge but against metaknight your goal needs to be to simply recover.

Also against the tornado. Ftilt is probably your best bet but it has a bit of slow start up so if the spacing isn't right just shield it. Mirror shield sort of works but its unlikely you gain any advantage by using it and metaknight can just keep pressing b to go over the shield and hit you. Even if you do reflect the tornado he can turn it back around at you fast enough to hurt you. Arrow looping to punish is the definition of impractical. Even if you pull it off its unlikely you'll take less damage then him. Your best bet is to simply shield it then try to punish. If metaknight lands on the ground he won't have any lag so often they will move to a platform a rasied point or simply some place on the ground after they've gotten there damage. Although because they land with no lag you can't really realibly punish it with one move I've noticed mk tend to just muscle memory a move they do after the tornado. So watch to see if the mk generally dsmash, shields, spot dodges or whatever. Predict what he is going to do and punish.

Almost forgot to mention the di for the tornado is important. Di up and the opposite direction he is going and airdodge you can generally escape it with about 4% damage.

hugglebunny · Jul 24, 2008

my wise advice would be...

RUN FOR THE FREEKIEN HILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

thats what experience i have had

Admiral Pit · Jul 24, 2008

hugglebunny said:
my wise advice would be...

RUN FOR THE FREEKIEN HILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

thats what experience i have had

Umm, yea, the last time I ran away from a MetaKnight...

*slowly walks backwards while knees were shaking, then runs away*
-Meta catches up and grabs Pit from behind-
"Hey, let me go!"

Ryanarius · Jul 24, 2008

Admiral Bowser said:
Umm, yea, the last time I ran away from a MetaKnight...

*slowly walks backwards while knees were shaking, then runs away*
-Meta catches up and grabs Pit from behind-
"Hey, let me go!"

Last time I ran from metaknight he completely gimped me.

tournament match tried to woi under smashville and he caught up to me (considerable distanst) with a glide and gimped me. I'm still mad about that. :psycho:

On a related note woi under the stage isn't an automatic recover safely card.

hugglebunny · Jul 24, 2008

lol last time i played a Meta i got... lets just say it wasn't pretty

CorruptFate · Jul 25, 2008

lol lets get more of a discussion then run and hide or pick a different guy to play.

FzeroX · Jul 25, 2008

IMO a smart Edge whoring Pit is about an even match-up with MK, most other styles will fall a bit short, this is just my experiance. take it for what its worth (which is very little indeed, cause my application sucks) I really don't want to delve deeper into this cause It has been covered so many times, also cause I haven't slept in 38 hours, so good night pplz.

kupo15 · Jul 25, 2008

i want to add, dont tempt fate with the edge. MK owns it.

CorruptFate · Jul 26, 2008

Hes right don't temp me.

CorruptFate · Jul 28, 2008

Now Ness is over all good except for those few chain grabs, and Im not sure what to put up so here are just a few please add what I am missing.

Back toss

stopping his recovery

air game and the spike

sagemoon · Jul 28, 2008

mirror shield ness's recovery. That is all

kupo15 · Jul 28, 2008

Yoshis island is a counter since he cant charge his smashes at certain places. Sage also told me the shy guys cause trouble

Doctor X · Jul 28, 2008

Learn to smash DI out of his PK fire and be very, very careful against him in the air. His forward air will take you out of almost anything so you have to make sure to space it properly.

I say Pit has the advantage here, mainly due to Ness's recovery. Even without the mirror shield (which *****), you can pick him out of it with arrows until he's too low to come back at all.

kupo15 · Jul 28, 2008

WoI works wonders also. If you are returning from above and he tries to use the PK thunder, WoI to cancel it and divebomb with a Bair or something. Also, most Ness like to Fair with the second jump to come back so just mirror this to set up for another mirror for the recovery. Even if you dont flip him around, the mirror will stop a lot of his momentum.

Admiral Pit · Jul 28, 2008

I havent been facing Ness players lately. I normally shoow an arrow when I see him using PK thunder or flash. Against the fire, either dodge or use the mirror shield.
I dont have much Ness experience, but I do remember that Most Nesses would try to grab you when you are at about 100%+ damage for a B-throw KO. "Let me go!" I may have said that a lot, but i hate getting grabbed, and that B-throw is usually what a Ness would to do KO.

We all know about the Arrow and his magnet turn out. That's why you should only use them when Ness leaves himself open, like when they are trying to recover (The part where they use PK Thunder to get back to the stage) He's pretty much a decent opponent, and you pretty much have to rely on close-combat and the Mirror Shield against a Ness rather than the typical arrow.
I cant say much now since I havent fought a Ness in a while, and I dont got that much experience with them as Pit, since my Bowser was the one that encountered Ness more.

Ryos4 · Jul 29, 2008

Yeah ness has a huge weakness in his recovery. Ive never used the mirror shield tech against him though. What i found to work better is to either:
1. Jump in front of his pk thunder and take the hit.
2. Shoot out the pk thunderbolt itself before it has a chance to hit him. Ive done it several times. Just shoot it with an arrow and he falls to his death. Thats a time for a big victory dance cause u are awesome. woot. Mad props for anyone who can hit a tiny and somewhat speedy pk thunderbolt. (i have a replay of this, oh i was laughing so hard lol)
(Edit: It was a lucas that i have in a replay, oh well same difference.)

Pk fire does cause problems, but thats what ur 2 reflectors are for. U should be able to see it coming and pull out ur shield. If not the safest way is to just try to jump out of it. Though be aware that it does eat up ur jumps so dont attempt to jump while off the stage.

The thing u have to worry about most with ness, is his b throw. Most people are at a disadvantage when thier back is at the edge, unlike ness who does extremely well.

Last thing that is somewhat bothersome. Is his aerials. Fair bair and dair. They will all most likely out prioritize you unless u time things perfectly. best thing to do is when u are approaching him and hes air borne. Shoot an arrow in his direction. Doesnt really matter if u aim well, he will probably air dodge and thats when u go in for a melee strike.

Well anyway thats my 2 cents on pit vs ness.

kupo15 · Jul 29, 2008

or WoI the PK thunder recovery to cancel the PK thunder :laugh:

love that move

DemonicTrilogy · Jul 29, 2008

His ground game isn't that good so you should be able to easily force him off the platform and make him want to use his recovery.

CorruptFate · Jul 31, 2008

Sonic time, the 2nd best here in Utah is a Sonic but that is because of mind games.

Speed

Hard to edge guard

...........

What else does he have?

kupo15 · Jul 31, 2008

not a clue. Too fast so let him come to you?

WolfCypher · Jul 31, 2008

The fact that Sonic's KO prowess is very bad (the worst in the game?), and Pit's survivability (?) is very good means Sonic will have the hardest time KOing Pit. With that in mind, I think Pit as an advantage over Sonic.

My friend's friend mains Sonic, and he just started playing seriously. Even still, until I've seen his playstyle truly breakthrough, he's a novice in my eyes, so that doesn't help.

I'm not too sure I have any good examples to use, because of my lack of playing against competitive Sonics, but I never considered Sonic to be a Pit threat. I'm going out on a limb and saying that Sonic won't be any trouble against Pit.

ComboTurtle · Jul 31, 2008

hmm i dunno i think sonic can give pit a bit of trouble in the match up, generally however if he wants a kill it'll be with a mindgamed forward smash which actually has a fair bit of range if is done immediately after dashing, his speed is also hard to deal with but, spamming nairs with their awesome priority will generally take care of that. I'm not too sure on the match up though cause i havent really had the chance to play any good sonics, im sorta interested in seeing what everyone has to say

Sped · Jul 31, 2008

Ummm, I don't have any experience against human sonics but i did used to main him so i know a few things.

His Bair is his best kill move, it's got a small amount of start-up time but not alot (maybe if you've got really good reflexes u can air dodge or something =S lol). His Fsmash can kill too but at a higher %. Other than that his other moves have pretty poor knockback including his throws. His Fair is pretty decent, has fairly good priority and ok knockback, it's used alot for gimping but i think it won't work too well against pit since he can outmanouvre sonic in the air, then again i could be wrong. If he's spin dashing, get ready to dodge cos sonic can easily combo out of it, if you're quick i think you can shoot him out of it.

As for strategies, sonic's lighter and weaker than pit so try and use that to your advantage. Arrows will probably be very useful to control him and keep his speed in check (not sure about arrow looping though knowing how fast sonic is). His Dair is very punishable if done too close to the ground, it's got a huge amount of lag for such a fast character so maybe run in with your Fsmash for a kill if the oppurtunity shows up. Edgeguarding him will be tough but i dont think it should put you off (you may even pressure them into making a mistake).

I'd probably say pit has the advantage cos of his arrows and aerial ability, i wouldn't say it's a huge advantage though, sonic's speed is rediculous =/.

Admiral Pit · Jul 31, 2008

As I told some of the Bowsers on the Bowser boards, you gotta roleplay as the "Mantis" meaning Defensive play, and wait for Sonic to come to u. Except, unlike Bowser, you are able to strike him at long range with arrows, to make him come to you. Straight arrows wont hit Sonic when he is rolling around, so you'd have to slightly aim the arrow downwards to hit him.

One of the things that I think will make Sonic a problem for Pit (besides speed) is the combo oppurtunities when he does that spin dash. Chances he may use the spring and try to KO u with the U-air. Sonic's B-air is annoying and is quite equal in being a KO move.
You basically have to wait for him, predict where he'll end up, and counter it, but most likely this will result in you using your U-air at the hedgehog when he jumps.

So basically you just wait for him to come to u. If you got patience and prediction skills as well as knowing the slight differences between Sonic's moves and The Basic approaches that Sonic does, you should be able to beat him with ease. I personally dont use as many arrows as I would against a Pit considering how Speed chars are hard to hit.
And try not to get gimped by his spring while recovering.

cj.Shark · Aug 1, 2008

Sonic: Dont Arrow unless hes off the map. You can bend arrows BUT sonics spindash and dash attack(his favorite moves) go Under. If you arrow your setting urself up for a moment when u get him by spindash = spindash-UPair-Spring-upair(if misses) lagless d-air. another favorite is the spindash Neutral B variant.
Sonic is specially good at punishing Pit for the smallest ammount of lag time (arrows) they he can run under extemely easily. also watch out for spring d-air its almost lagless so dont try and shieldgrab instead wingdash backwards and do a sh N-air. You cant believe how usefull sh n-air is as it outpriotizes almost all of his apporaches. if you see him spinning at you. A) Sh n-air. B) dodge it. often out of instinct Sonic players will combo an U-air out of it this is ur chance since your aerials outpriotize his.
Sonic Players like to gimp WoI with spring. since you know its coming just fly under the LIP of a stage and wait for it to fall down. sonic players dont like going there because their recovery isnt very controllable so they might kill themselves. WATCH out for his running upsmash. if your recovering and hes running at you HE WILL use it. It has some of the highest priority in the game. Instead airdodge it and hit him with an f-tilt.
as for Maps. DONT PICK FD just dont. its such a good map for sonic. Picking BF will limite his spindash comboing. His Neutral B His spring d-airs. it wont matter because in this matchup arrows arent such a good thing too much risk for low reward

Admiral Pit · Aug 1, 2008

FD, well you will still see me there since i hate BF. The hedgehog is annoying, i just wait patiently in my experience, then counter with the right attack when necessary.

cj.Shark · Aug 1, 2008

Admiral Bowser said:
FD, well you will still see me there since i hate BF. The hedgehog is annoying, i just wait patiently in my experience, then counter with the right attack when necessary.

Bf is def better though ur aerial game > his and your not gonna need to use your arrows anyway. and dont even think about arrow looping ^^;

Ryos4 · Aug 1, 2008

Hmm sonic now...

Most sonic players arnt any real problem for pit. Lots of sonics main strats revolve around his ground based spin dash, and if ur smart u can just use pits aerial awesomeness to overpower any average sonic player. The most dangerous attack that sonic has in my opinion is his Dsmash and is probably the only thing that ever kills me against sonic. Though his spring spike is pretty dangerous to pit as well.

Something that ive wanted to try but never got around to was the WoI push to prevent sonic from sticking to the ledge. Anyone ever done that successfully?

CorruptFate · Aug 2, 2008

I don't have time to post much right now ill try and get some up later. The same gimp you can do on Snake's up B all so works on Sonic and G&W. Snake is the easiest to do it to, then Sonic because he can/will fair out of it, G&W is a pain because he becomes a hit box for it and can attack out. But if you can do it, it can help.

Doctor X · Aug 3, 2008

Sonic is bad. You can out-prioritize him anywhere-- in the air, on the ground, wherever. Just be patient and don't throw out moves for no reason and he can't touch you. That's really all I have to say...

CorruptFate · Aug 5, 2008

Lucario's time:

getting the kill fast, with Pits lack of kill

dealing with his growing reach, priority, and damage.

his combo's

good air game

Little info on his aura:
-It caps for most moves at 167 but the cap for any move is 170.
-if he is down a stock he gets a 20% buff if he is down 2 stock 40% (not sure past that but I would think its the same patteren)
-if he is up a stock he gets a 10% neff if he is up 2 its 20% (not sure past that but I would think its the same patteren)
-He gets no aura buff for damage until he is above 25%

Ill have info on this in a later post.

Doctor X · Aug 6, 2008

A pretty tough matchup seeing as he's one of the few characters who can consistently challenge Pit in the air, and his hitboxes on the ground generally outrange all of Pit's as well. His down-air is very dangerous and since it stops him in the air briefly it can really mess up your attacking strategies.

If you Mirror the Aurasphere when it's fully charged and he has any significant amount of damage, he's 100% ****ed, so keep that in mind and play defensively if you have to. You don't wanna get hit by that thing and you want to make the most of it when he throws it.

Lucario's recovery is easily one of the most gimpable in the game. Not only does his up-B lack a hitbox making it ridiculously easy to edgehog, it also has a bit of startup lag before he moves, similar to fox and falco. You can hit him out of this if you're fast enough. Arrows work very well for this purpose and can easily set up an edgehog.

I give Pit the advantage here cause of gimping, but don't take this matchup lightly.

kupo15 · Aug 6, 2008

pit def has the adv. i have played a couple of lucarios. Always watch for the Dair like he said. They like that move esp after a Dthrow. Good Lucario players can Extreme Speed into a wall cling if the edge is taken. Predict the Ball and reflect. They have crazy priority with basically everything. The Fsmash range is insane and bigger than you think. There goal is to hit you with the tips of the hitbox. You can easily escape the Side B CG with a jump. Wing refresh FTW

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