Wario stage discussion

Christopher Rodriguez · Apr 21, 2008

You knew this was coming xD I'll start this off with a question:

What would you say is Wario's best counterpick stage in your opinion? (NOT NEUTRAL)

I'd like to hear your thoughts on what you counterpick, and later give you my favorite since I don't want to bias your decisions.

Edit: Well, someone already shares the same favorite counterpick as me lol. Frigate Orpheon seems like THE wario counterpick stage. Its horizontal kill zones are very far away meaning you wont die (But this applies to all characters as well) I like it mainly because usually the right side of the stage doesn't have a ledge, meaning recoveries like Mario and marths can be taken advantage of so badly. This means alot of free wafts and fsmashes for you if you constantly pressure them on the right side of the stage. Wario is unaffected by the no ledge pretty much since his recovery is crazy in terms of distance.

Also as much as I hate to say it, wario can get gimped pretty easy if you time knocking him off the bike, which will usually mean hes not making it back unless he has a waft. In frigate there is ALOT of breathing room in which you can summon your motorcycle and jump off it safely, usually away from good gimpers (marth)

Ive messed around with counterpicks a ton, and this is by far the best result of a overall wario counter stage I could find.

Proteus · Apr 21, 2008

I haven't messed around with counterpicks as much as I should, but I'm liking Delfino (counterpick in the tourneys I've played) and Frigate Orpheon so far.

Delfino just has pretty small sides in some places, so I seem to get quick kills on it. Orpheon, I just like the layout. Plus the right side of the stage with no ledge helps me out a lot more than most other characters.

cyclops4ever · Apr 22, 2008

no not delfino! especially against chaingrabbers. its an ok counterpick but i would pick stages that are smaller with low ceilings and low bottoms, but platforms seem to be a problem for warios who use dair all the time or fight in the air alot. i'll have to check tho.

3GOD · Apr 22, 2008

My favorite is probably Rainbow Cruise to take advantage of Wario's good aerial game, but it can back-fire vs. certain characters (Fox seems to be really good on Rainbow Cruise).

I also like Halberd since it has a pretty low ceiling (Uair kills semi-early here) and the ability to come up from below the main platform in the flying sections.

Proteus · Apr 22, 2008

cyclops4ever said:
no not delfino! especially against chaingrabbers. its an ok counterpick but i would pick stages that are smaller with low ceilings and low bottoms, but platforms seem to be a problem for warios who use dair all the time or fight in the air alot. i'll have to check tho.

I dunno. I've played on it a bunch against Dededes and had less trouble than on any neutral stage. But yeah, there are probably better picks. What do you think of Orpheon?

Samus_ABe · Apr 22, 2008

rofl rainbow cruise.... *sigh*- yes this is a counterpick against wario, not for him..

its not like there will be one specific stage that is strong for wario, it all depends on what characters you are facing. If your playing meta knight, you wanna counterpick a platform level so he cant spam his up b. If your playing dedede, you want to make sure u counterpick a level that u cant be chaingrabbed to death on, like castle siege. we should make a chart showing what stages counterpick what characters with wario.

cyclops4ever · Apr 22, 2008

i agree....chaingrabbing...i'm really starting to like yoshis island for dedede, you can gimp his recovery with the bite easilty everytime and make him recover earlier to punish and he cant chaingrab you but so far. thats the best one i've seen honestly. and it has a platform for the meta knight thing. good tilt in stage so even wario can make it back sometimes if you get punked off your bike. just watch running into the wall with your bike....it happens sometimes.

3GOD · Apr 22, 2008

Samus_ABe said:
rofl rainbow cruise.... *sigh*- yes this is a counterpick against wario, not for him..

its not like there will be one specific stage that is strong for wario, it all depends on what characters you are facing. If your playing meta knight, you wanna counterpick a platform level so he cant spam his up b. If your playing dedede, you want to make sure u counterpick a level that u cant be chaingrabbed to death on, like castle siege. we should make a chart showing what stages counterpick what characters with wario.

I disagree about Rainbow Cruise. You are correct that some characters will have the advantage on Wario here, but I'd say Wario does well against 90% of the cast on this stage. It's not that it's a bad Wario stage - just that it happens to be a better stage for that 10% of the cast. Actually, the main character that I can think of giving Wario a lot of trouble on Rainbow Cruise is Fox simply because it really enhances Fox's already good Usmash.

Wario cannot projectile camp, and Rainbow Cruise makes it harder to camp for many of the characters that excel in that arena. Also, since there is a large period of time with no main platform, Wario's gimping abilities are enhanced. The low ceiling helps his Uair kill earlier as well. You mentioned chain grabbing; I think Rainbow Cruise helps against this as well. Seems to me to be a good Wario stage - just perhaps a better stage for a few characters.

I do agree that there is not really one stage that Wario dominates in general, but Rainbow Cruise is probably one of the few that is close to Wario domination.

Wouldn't Castle Siege be a poor counterpick vs. King Dedede? That middle section would allow him to chain grab you off the edge of the stage.

Christopher Rodriguez · Apr 22, 2008

I personally don't like castle siege for wario, because that one part of the stage inside the castle is too big for wario meaning poor performance against fast campy characters. The walk off ledges don't help as well due to some characters having good early combos (D3, Falco, etc) on wario that can kill him early. The only part I like about the stage is the very beginning, and thats not enough for me.

KMB23 · Apr 22, 2008

i've had most success at yoshi's island. i've played frigate few times and it definatley seems like a potential counter pick. haven't played rainbow cruise with wario yet, but i will try that too.

edit: i play like 7/10 games against a dedede.

Tin · Apr 22, 2008

Yoshi's Island is the worst stage ever. That platform in the middle is extremely obnoxious for an aerial character like Wario.

As for counter-pick, I love Battlefield.

Christopher Rodriguez · Apr 22, 2008

Battlefield is good, but I was talking about counterpicks in general

handsockpuppet · Apr 22, 2008

cyclops4ever said:
no not delfino! especially against chaingrabbers. its an ok counterpick but i would pick stages that are smaller with low ceilings and low bottoms, but platforms seem to be a problem for warios who use dair all the time or fight in the air alot. i'll have to check tho.

I ALWAYS do delfino (but not against DDDs, they can take advantage of it).

1) it's small, which helps Wario a lot, especially against Toon Link, my friend's main.
2) occasionally switches to infinite road stages, which make kills easier.
3) since his bike jump has no lag, recovery is a blast

Endless Nightmares · Apr 23, 2008

I like Norfair for Wario. There are so many edges to fool around with, and I think he controls the big aerial space in the middle quite well.

I wish I could better explain why I like it but I jest feel really comfortable taking people there as Wario. It fits his playstyle well

Deleted member · Apr 23, 2008

IMO i dont think any of the counter pick stages fit wario very well

I always find that im playing the best on either the yoshi story stage or the animal crossing stage

Christopher Rodriguez · Apr 23, 2008

I messed around with norfair quite a bit, but the people around here hate the stage so much. =/ Its cool that you can leave your motorcycle laying around the lower platforms and have the lava break it for you, lol.

handsockpuppet · Apr 23, 2008

I changed the song from the stupid first one to the multiplayer Metroid 2 theme.

royboy850 · Apr 23, 2008

i play only on custom stages with Sonic Boom as the song....

frills though i never thought about norfair or rainbow cruise, will have to try em out tonight

handsockpuppet: what were you talking about when referring to killing on "infinite road stages" on delfino?

Endless Nightmares · Apr 23, 2008

I think he means the walk-off sections of Delfino

royboy850 · Apr 23, 2008

well yea but he mentioned that it makes killing easier. does the KO boundary shrink for those portions of the stage or soemthing?

Christopher Rodriguez · Apr 23, 2008

Makes killing easier for the ddd he meant.

Endless Nightmares · Apr 23, 2008

I think he meant easier kills for Wario >_>

Pretty much everything kills over there, even fair or bthrow

handsockpuppet · Apr 24, 2008

I meant for both, but for DDD especially. It really helps against Toon link however. don't do Delfino for Falco, though. for a combination of reasons, Falco has an advantage on Delfino.

paralasalud · Apr 24, 2008

i play with 2 seriously campy people.
it makes me hate brawl the way they play.

anyway, i really can't counterpick anything. i get camped so hard.

Endless Nightmares · Apr 24, 2008

Air dodge solves everything

Fatmanonice · Apr 24, 2008

I did a thread about this on another forum and here are my personal opinions:

3. At least three stages that are well suited for the character and why.

Battlefield- Most of Wario’s best attacks are his aerials and this stage leaves plenty of oppurtunities to use them. It also gives you a ton of chances to “surprise” people with Wario’s bite and the Wario Waft. The stage’s small size also gives opponents few places to run when Wario becomes Wario Man.

Castle Siege- Again, a stage that allows Wario to show off his aerial skills. Like Battlefield, it allows a lot of oppurtunities for surprise attacks and Wario Man has a hayday on this stage. For example, if you use Wario Man’s Motorcycle on the “dungeon” part you are almost guaranteed to kill at least one person because there is almost no-where to run.

Wario Ware- See the above. Also, most of the mini-games are very easy to accomplish with Wario. For example, you can beat the “Chisel” by using Wario’s Corkscrew (Up B attack) fairly easy.
Other great Wario stages are 75m, Shadow Moses, and Luigi’s Mansion.

4. At least two stages where the character is at a disadvantage and why.

Green Hill Zone- There are several things about this stage that usually screw Wario over. For starters, because of Wario’s short jump it makes it harder for him to jump over the goal posts and being forced to constantly use double jumps makes him somewhat predictable. The terrain also makes it hard for him to effectively use his bike.

Rumble Falls- When the stage really starts to get moving, Wario will usually get left behind especially with his short jumps and slow recovery attack. It’s extremely impractical to use his bike and, for Wario to score KO’s, he needs to have targets that aren’t constantly moving. Granted, this helps him score up damage but it makes him hard to hit with attacks like his FSmash.

Endless Nightmares · Apr 24, 2008

Wario Ware, 75m, Shadow Moses, and Rumble Falls are all banned. Also Green Hill and Luigi's Mansion at some tournaments

Fatmanonice · Apr 24, 2008

56k said:
Wario Ware, 75m, Shadow Moses, and Rumble Falls are all banned. Also Green Hill and Luigi's Mansion at some tournaments

Really? Uh... Final Destination and Battlefield then... *sigh*

PhantomX · Apr 24, 2008

I personally like Delfino for Wario, though against DDD it's pretty terrible (the only good level I can think of that's beneficial to Wario and not DDD is Norfair... but I'm not exactly sure that's a viable stage. It has tiny platforms, which ruin his chain grab, and the platforms are nicely spaced out for aerials and combos). I'm biased towards the new Pokemon Stadium as well, due to the air portion and the ice portion.

Of course most of this is just personal preference... I haven't really found a level that Wario does poorly on to be honest (except for Shadow Moses b/c I prefer to kill with the Forward Smash).

Christopher Rodriguez · Apr 29, 2008

(Blatant revival of this thread)

Alot of people have been counterpicking Pokemon Stadium melee on me, whats the big deal? I don't see how its so disadvantageous to Wario. Its a bit on the tight side for stage size and the platforms on the main stage don't really help Wario much, but other than that the stage is fine even with the dumb ledges since wario usually recovers medium high. Your thoughts?

PhantomX · Apr 29, 2008

I like Pokemon Stadium w/ Wario... donno what that's about.. if anything, the new Pokemon Stadium is a bit annoying for Wario... the Ice and Wind stages just make me whiff completely or kill myself on occasion even w/ the partial waft.

Endless Nightmares · Apr 30, 2008

Jungle Japes is my new Wario counterpick. Lots of edges to play around with, and Wariocide has an odd twist on this stage.

Wario4Ever · Apr 30, 2008

This might sound a little unothrodox to you guys (because I have not seen anyone mention it) but I think a good counter pick for Wario is Port Town Aero Dive. Its an excellent level for Wario because it has a short stage so not even the likes of Olimar can do much throwing stuff at you. And at parts of the level it resembles BattleField because it has two extra platforms on top for Wario to jump around on and help with his aerial attacks (except these platforms come and go). And if you are VERY aware of your surroundings you will be able to dodge the incoming cars before your opponent does (at 50% the cars can kill you). But like I said you have to be aware and be a little lucky

harpuia190 · Apr 30, 2008

im gonna say pirate ship just cause if done right, if you do the wariocide at the front end of the ship, you can spit em out right to the boat spike, doesn't work all the time but it is hilariuos

Blue sHell · Apr 30, 2008

I'm absolutely shocked none of you have said Onett. I **** so bad in the pit in Onett that its not even fair. Wario works best in cramped places, and Onett's little arena is the place to be. Obviously not good vs chaingrabbers.

Frigate is good to counterpick certain characters.

And Jungle Japes is also very very cramped, so its always a plus.

Christopher Rodriguez · Apr 30, 2008

Wow, never thought of Onett. I gotta try it sometime sounds like **** lol

PhantomX · May 1, 2008

I always get hit by the cars on Onett, haha.

If anything, I like Norfair for Wario... quite cramped b/c of tiny ledges, and lots of places for him to grab on.

Endless Nightmares · May 1, 2008

Not to mention on Onett you can safely use the bike as a weapon at all times cause you don't need it to recover.

Just drive into a wall, bam there's a fresh new bike =]

Hoots · May 1, 2008

I haven't really played any counterpick stages at all besides Delfino and Halberd. I seem to do very well at delfino. Maybe it's the platform locations or something. However, don't pick delfino against and Ike or a Meta Knight. They can just drop below the stage, up b, and repeat. Very annoying. I am going to check out Jungle Japes.

Christopher Rodriguez · May 1, 2008

I don't think Delfinos a bad stage for wario, I just think that other characters out there can take advantage of the stage ALOT better (ddd).

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