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An introductory look at Wavebouncing/B-Sticking - video

Z

Zero9teen

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 22, 2008
Messages
2
This is something that has been touched upon in the past, but my friend and I decided to dive a little bit deeper.

In this video I made you'll see an intro to the technique. How it's done, and a character using it.

Several characters have some very concrete applications with this technique (Lucas, Marth, Zelda, Lucario have the largest boost), but you can see for yourself in the second and third videos listed here.

Please enjoy, and bear in mind that this is only the tip of the iceberg. There are other effects to wavebouncing - alternate jumps, easier aerial turn-arounds, etc. to name a few, and I'm sure in the future we will be seeing this open up more and more.

The name was something my friend and I (Qinopio), agreed on, and I'm sure you all won't mind. It fits, and sticks with the Smash theme of things =P (if not, B-Sticking works too. I really don't care what it's called, I'm just getting it out there)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53Wix_KsK5g

Character Demo One:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kox5-m5JM3w

Demo Two:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GG098jC4in0

As a side note, I'd like to point out that I am by no means taking credit for the technique's discovery, as I'm sure people in Japan have known about this for a long time. Moreover, I was unaware of Samurai Panda's information prior to the recording of this video. I at least take pride in the direct-feed video, and the soon-to-come character demonstrations.

As far as the name, Qinopio and I thought it fit just fine. The momentum has a similar look and feel of wavedashing of old, and the whole "wave" theme has stuck with the series for quite some time. Adding a new prefix would just be a bother.
 
T

TrueRedemption

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 26, 2007
Messages
278
Huh, that really is interesting... Especially that your so sure its intentional, kind of suggests that higher level play must be "found" by finding a completely new configuration to the controller... Weird.

Anyway, I certainly see its uses, after messing around some though it is very specific, lucas certainly gets the most out of it as shown. One question, and its not an easy one to answer I spose, but I feel blind at the moment, I'm not exactly sure what your talking about when you say tip of the iceberg, do you mean controller reconfiguration in general? Or is there a lot more to specifically Cstick special that i'm not seeing beyond the obvious yet limited use suggested? I don't mean to belittle your finding any, I just don't see apart from a few characters who can divert momentum in certain circumstances what else this can lead too. I mean i did it very low to the ground, and it was quick somewhat like a wavedash backwards, which was kinda fun but limited. I also saw a little recovery potential in marth's and the concept in general. I admit, I'm definitely not in the water yet with this technique, but I Really don't see an iceberg under there, and would love for you to point it out. Thanks =) Good find,


-True
 
P

Pharma

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 6, 2008
Messages
25
Location
Brisbane, Australia
Mama said:
I don't think he's saying he discovered it. I think he's just coining the name wave bounce. What about C-bounce?, C-back? C-Walk? C-float? lol
Click to expand...
I think you are right. My personal criteria for naming techniques is noob-friendliness. That is the name says something about the technique so that any noob can get an initial grasp on the concept. I like b-sticking, or special sticking myself.
 
U

underrated_talent

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
3
Location
Detroit
i dont really like the term Wavebouncing but it does fit i have no arguments to it.
Maybe Wave sliding, Tech Slide idk...your gonna hear alot of names but again wavebouncing seems to fit.
PANDA SLIDE!!!!
 
F

FerretStyle

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
83
Forward-Stick, Up-Stick, etc makes the most sense to me. And follows the naming convention of multi-directional attacks. Yoshi would be up-sticking
 
n00b

n00b

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Just wondering... did my inadvertent use of the term "b-stick" in this post lead to this? Haha.
n00b said:
With the b-sticked RAR -> b-sticked forward B your whip extends to where your body would normally be while your body moves backwards...

Also, b-stick RARs with airdodges seem to counter rolls pretty well... The only downside of the b-stick rar is that you need to be in a full run animation, (i think, not entirely sure as trying to b-stick out of the dash animation only led to a forward B) so in case you can't capitalize on the first rollchase you won't be able to do it again.
Click to expand...
 
J

JediSange

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Joined
Jan 10, 2008
Messages
128
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Virgina, United States
How about Pointless-until-used-in-competitive-play-stick?

This technique seems like you're trying to mold Brawl into melee. Wavebouncing? That doesn't sound remotely familiar. Wavedashing is out for a reason. Stop trying to come up with techniques to mimic the way we played Melee... this is a new game and will have its own, new ways to cheese up competitions.

On a side note, it's an interesting find but I don't think that what I saw would ever be practical in a match. I know I could be wrong, but it just doesn't seem like a little backwards momentum would come in all that useful in Brawl.
 
B

BlackYoshi7

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Joined
Jul 2, 2006
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102
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Wisconsin/Illionis
Honestly, outside of PK Fire mobile retreat harassment with Lucas, it doesn't seem that useful. And the Space Animals are going to absolutely wreck that plan. Also the animation lag from PK Fire means you can't throw up a bair instantly, while in a RAR you can bring it in much faster.
 
D

Dreminem

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Joined
Jul 31, 2007
Messages
41
Location
Raleigh NC
This looks very useful for pikachu. I don't know if I could get out of the habit of using C-stick for smashes though. It will definately take some time but this seems pretty worth it to me.
 
J

JediSange

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Not to mention you sacrifice using the C-Stick for aerials. The "turning point" in melee for me was when I started using the C-Stick exclusively to perform directional aerials... it makes you an all-around better player (in melee, atleast). Giving that up would be... bad
 
I

Idoit4ways

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
1
Location
New Jersey
B-stick sounds like a good and accurate name for me.
However, I agree with JediSange: I don't like the idea of losing my c-stick smashes, especially if im playing as Captain Falcon or Ganon.
 
J

JediSange

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Yeh, juggling becomes 1000x easier for me when I have the C-Stick as my smash attack (so I can aerial with it), and the fact that you can up smash while running with the C-Stick in brawl is amazing...

Too bad it doesn't work in training =\
 
Kevin

Kevin

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Nice video, but I won't be using this as I use my c-stick for smashes and aerials all the time. The running up smash is also harder to do without the c stick set to smash.

B-Stick sounds a lot better than wavebounce. Where's the wave? Where's the bounce? It's basically "move backwards using special b moves when c-stick is remapped to special"
 
J

JettythatSamus

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Joined
Nov 29, 2006
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162
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Fresno, CA
fantomkitsune said:
It's not a dash though >_>
Click to expand...

I think loosely you should be able to refer to dashing as any movement on the ground that isn't rolling or walking. He's sliding backwards but it's not the result of an airdodge, so the "wave" feature is out.


I also think that the names for these advanced techniques should be totally different, because this is a brand new game with slightly similiar physics.

B-slide
S-slide (special slide)

Or don't name it. There haven't been any major tournaments yet as far as I know, so we don't even know if this stuff is useful on a grand scale. Yes, you can play with others online, but that's still unconclusive as not everyone sees application of these techniques, even with Youtube's help.
 
B

Benawi

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Joined
Aug 6, 2006
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Clemmons, NC
So.... I can make Lucas' side B push me back like in that video... without using the c-stick. :D

[Edit] Sort of. I can't quite ignore all momentum on a forward jump, but if you're doing running short hop PK fire (as in running from your oppenent and turning around in mid air to shoot fire at them) you get the boost. I'm not sure if that's just 'cause PK fire pushed back naturally (it does if you just jump and do it) or if it's a result of the same whacky physics that 'cause your glitch. Intersting stuff though. :)
 
TechnoMonster

TechnoMonster

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Mar 9, 2008
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Bump for the niceness of this, this is pretty sure to be an addidition to Lucario and Lucas's gameplay.
 
J

JediSange

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On a side note I did try this... it makes "dash-shining" a bit easier.

With fox if this is set along with tap up to jump, you can shine very quickly. Just run, tap up lightly to short hop, then shine (it's a technique with fox that shortens the lag time of shine like you were in the air even though you appear on the ground). You can then 'fox trot' or legit dash to them and repeat. It's the closest thing to wave-shining brawl will get, methinks. However, I'd like to disclaimer that I do not like the idea of 'dash-shining' as this is not Melee, and shouldn't attempt to be played as such.
 
R

R. Olivaw

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 8, 2008
Messages
28
I love c-stick smashing, so no, until I see "b-sticking" used in competitive play I'm sticking to the tried and true.
 
P

Pharma

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Joined
Feb 6, 2008
Messages
25
Location
Brisbane, Australia
JediSange said:
How about Pointless-until-used-in-competitive-play-stick?

This technique seems like you're trying to mold Brawl into melee. Wavebouncing? That doesn't sound remotely familiar. Wavedashing is out for a reason. Stop trying to come up with techniques to mimic the way we played Melee... this is a new game and will have its own, new ways to cheese up competitions.
Click to expand...
JediSange said:
Not to mention you sacrifice using the C-Stick for aerials. The "turning point" in melee for me was when I started using the C-Stick exclusively to perform directional aerials... it makes you an all-around better player (in melee, atleast). Giving that up would be... bad
Click to expand...
Nice work, you tell us that we are trying to mold Brawl into Melee and then mention that you won't change because of the way you played in Melee. Sounds somewhat contradictory.

This is an important development because it introduces the idea of different control setups which adds another layer to the strategy of the game.
 
I

Irow

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Vallejo, California
B-Sticking is useful with Marth. Really effective poke move, it's really effective at getting aggressive Wofl's at MK's off your ***.

Wow, I really like this control setup.
 
T

Tron V2.0

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a car dealership near you!
I'm thinking marth can use this to it's extreme. I'm thinking of a new way to recover with side b... why not side b away from the stage while recovering and wavebounce(or b-stick) towards the stage. Possibly this could be more usefull than the side b was in melee. Haven't tried it out though so i don't know if this'll work. Anyways this could make ken happy :D.
 
K

Kawaii

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 3, 2008
Messages
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This seems rather amazing, I'll practice it and may have to change my mains because of it =(.
 
F

Fishin

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 2, 2008
Messages
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Interesting technique. Losing C-stick smashes is definitely a blow to some characters (especially since you can't hyphen smash), but I could see this being very dangerous on some projectile-heavy characters.
 
C

Corn

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Joined
Feb 24, 2008
Messages
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Ehm, I'm having problems with this. When I played as Lucas, I tried doing this.(I switched C-Stick to Special, as you said)But, when I used my regular special(Side+B) it had the same effect as when I used the C-stick. This might not help, but how I was using the 'wavebounce' was jump then hit the C-Stick to the side.

Is this suppose to happen? Or am I just doing something wrong?
 
Qinopio

Qinopio

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I don't know exactly how it's done, but after doing a wavebounce with Lucas, I did PK Magnet, and flew forward at least as fast as the initial fire wavebounce. I flew forward in my initial direction, facing forward, which as far as I knew wasn't possible with this technique. I'll post more if I can figure out how to do this consistently.
 
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