Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Bobson. I completely agree with your thoughts. But don't you see? This is why there is always a war between Item Haters and Item Players. They wouldn't like us to post in every item-free tournament comments like" Hey dudes! You should play with Items! ". They would get angry if we do that. But.. When there is a "different" tournament for us Item Players to enjoy, based in our believes about item skills, etc. They just come and criticize, flame, and bother. You are not tolerant, you just want all tournaments to be Item-free, otherwise, you will flame it. Even if some other people want to enjoy it as an alternate way of competition, you will still mess with it. We respect your item-free tournaments, we watch them and would participate on them. You are not open minded. You are stubborn or your ideas make you reject item play. Then at least respect those who are different. You should stop that attitude and act more like grown-ups, really.And?
Items are a part of the game. If you only train without them, you're going to be at a disadvantage if you play with them, and these matches illustrate that incredibly well. If Ken had known how to use items well, he would've stomped CPU without remorse, but he didn't. Seriously, he picked up a hammer against a freaking ROB.
.D. This is something I've said a million times, item haters just don't get it because they don't want to.
It is not skill about controlling the randomness of item appearing. That is not possible.
nothings wrong with norfair, skyworld i can understandBut the fact That Items spawn RANDOMLY Tips the match/stock in favor of the person closest to the item. I don't see anyskill involed in picking up an item.
An Bob-Omb spawn near me while trying to to do a smash attack at 60-80% i just lost a stock because of luck.
Or i get a smart bomb spawns (again luck) near me I and i throw it hits my opponant and dose 40 damage and even if i miss it still can do 40 damage.
There are so many ways item can screw you over, It's just sad.
Luck=/=Skill
I think i know why so many people are hatein on Evo.
1. They didn't listen to the community when making there ruleset.
2. Items were on (If items are played they should at least be put on LOW)
3. There stage choice was terrable. Sky world ,Nofair WtF!
4. the commentary sucked.
if it were a good game... i would be impressed... this however.... just wow... so pathetici wish CPU was a member on here
i would have loved to read his thoughts
14 year old man thats young already winning tourneys
the kids got talent
For some reason, I lol'd.Nope sorry, Helen told me Ken doesn't want to play Brawl anymore, and that he went to Evo Vegas for a vacation after being in China for a while.
You can't seriously believe a 14 y/o kid, who has NEVER been to a tournament before, legitimately beat one of Smash's elite. In an interview, CPU even admitted that he didn't practice much before the tournament and that items helped him to do better than he thought he could do.Looking on the SRK forums and seeing the massive amounts of ******** really frustrated me but now I see that the same percentage of ******* exist here.
Bias statements are overlooked merely because a majority of the population share the same opinion. In fact, many of the players here suggest that item play is far from competitive and know this for FACT. Well you arrogant pissheads, your way of playing is the most common way of playing competitively but is not the only way to play the game competitively.
Lets not consider one style or the other better but merely state that without items is the mainstream.
(I'm not an item player. I hate items being on.)
EDIT: Smashballs are a bit ridiculous. lol
I completely agree with this statement. It saddened me to think that the main reason that CPU could take stocks away from Ken was due to the fact that he was using items.You can't seriously believe a 14 y/o kid, who has NEVER been to a tournament before, legitimately beat one of Smash's elite. In an interview, CPU even admitted that he didn't practice much before the tournament and that items helped him to do better than he thought he could do.
Items add too much randomness too the game. In these vids, it seems as if Ken refused to use the items on most occasions, as he purposely ignored some biggies like Smashballs and the homerun bat. This obviously put him at a disadvantage somewhat, b/c CPU went for almost every item that popped up on the stage. However, when there were no items present you can clearly see Ken devastating CPU. He had a better spacing game, mind games, defense AND offense, killing CPU with standard attacks (mostly). CPU's KO's came mostly from items.
I guarantee you that if you had them replay the same stages w/o the items, Ken would 3-0 CPU and probably 2-3 stock him each match.
Items made the skill gap between Ken and CPU so insignificant that the result was random. Items should not be for tournaments, where the results reflect the skill of the player.
1. It was legit. He won. There was no outside interference or hacks involved.You can't seriously believe a 14 y/o kid, who has NEVER been to a tournament before, legitimately beat one of Smash's elite. In an interview, CPU even admitted that he didn't practice much before the tournament and that items helped him to do better than he thought he could do.
Items add too much randomness too the game. In these vids, it seems as if Ken refused to use the items on most occasions, as he purposely ignored some biggies like Smashballs and the homerun bat. This obviously put him at a disadvantage somewhat, b/c CPU went for almost every item that popped up on the stage. However, when there were no items present you can clearly see Ken devastating CPU. He had a better spacing game, mind games, defense AND offense, killing CPU with standard attacks (mostly). CPU's KO's came mostly from items.
I guarantee you that if you had them replay the same stages w/o the items, Ken would 3-0 CPU and probably 2-3 stock him each match.
Items made the skill gap between Ken and CPU so insignificant that the result was random. Items should not be for tournaments, where the results reflect the skill of the player.
seriously?i didnt even finish watching the first match.... time and items is not how this game should be played competitively. It's not how it was played in smash's previous predecessors it's not how it should be played now. Random elements will always take away from a games skill point of view. I don't care i know it's all opinion but i guarantee most people will agree with me that items + time = failure
Finally someone who can post a comment that doesnt **** ride the rest of SWF or a post that says "lol items".Imo, it wasn't as much due to items that Ken lost than the fact that he could barely punish CPU for his dodge spam and whatnot due to brawl's ridiculous dodge engine and his own relative inexperience with it. >_> It makes it so that Ken could hardly use his melee experience and mindgames against CPU, seeing as there weren't any holes to punish them with marth. Just buffer a sidestep and vòla, you dodge everything, from marth's forward b to down tilts. <_< It does sadden me though that ken didn't use a single counter, barely used fsmash tipper and comboed into it for the kill and that Rob is more capable of getting the smash ball and it's 10x times better than marth's. Add in the fact that CPU probably had more brawl experience and especially item experience as well and you have a winning combination. CPU hardly did any reading here, used lasers, items and gyros when far away and when Ken got close, loooootss of sidestep and dsmash spam, more items, final smash etc. I don't think I saw a single powershield or shieldgrab either. Funnily enough, if Ken had been to using character with lingering hitboxes, he'd have punished CPU every single time he spot dodged.
You contradict yourself here. You say that items-off is better for competition but then say it's ok to have item-on in competitions.Yes, with items off the game is less random and in fact more appropriate for competitive play,(considering that money is involved), but items-on is not non-competitive.
He probably did so cause marth plays fairly the same as his melee counterpart, his lack of character experience on brawl meant that picking other char than marth would have yielded worse results.The thing I was concerned about was the fact that Ken picked Marth the entire tourney. I suppose he only plays his favorite character but I would not expect Marth to do well with items. I would expect Falco to be one of the best choices but I'm not familiar with the items-on tiers. (Who is? lol)
If you read my post I also suggest that items-on and items-off are nearly different games. There are different tiers and etc. I merely stated that if a variation of the game is chosen as mainstream then the most fair one would be most appropriate. You are saying that items are not for competition what-so-ever because they are not competitive. I'm saying that EVO items-on rules is competitive but items-off is better as the mainstream.You contradict yourself here. You say that items-off is better for competition but then say it's ok to have item-on in competitions.
Like I said before. Playing with items changes the game entirely from what we are used to. CPU's knowledge of item usage was apparent in the third match which gave him enough advantage to win. (Plus a Final Smash). Honestly, if the Final Smashes were out of the items-on rules then I'd expect people to accept the outcome. (I'd also expect CPU and Ken's matches to be close but Ken winning in the end).You can have competitions with items on, but it doesn't mean that the best player will win. CPU did a good job of rolling away from Marth's FS on 2 occasions, I'll give him that. However, other than showing he was decent with items, he didn't show much skill in other areas, especially spacing and straight up fighting. In fact, CPU went for items more often than fighting and most of the damage/KO's were from items.
I continue to say that the mainstream of items off is appropriate in comparison but items-on is far from unacceptable.It's not a matter of SWF being elitist. It's a matter of balance. Items unbalances the game to the point that the outcome is significantly more random than with items turned off. Random outcomes =/= fair competition.
Not to mention that Marth is actually fairly unchanged from Melee compared to the other veteran fighters. It's even the same character model >.< or close to it.He probably did so cause marth plays fairly the same as his melee counterpart, his lack of character experience on brawl meant that picking other char than marth would have yielded worse results.
Sorry if I appeared pro items and confused you.I see what you mean Baky. The problem comes from people who believe it takes equal/more skill to win an items-on tournament compared to an items-off tournament. This is just untrue, as I pointed out earlier.
I have no problems with people running items-on tournaments. I won't goto them, like you said. Hell, they can run a 99-stock 2.0 damage ratio lightning Brawl tournament for all I care. I just wanted to point out that even though you can play with items-on it doesn't demonstrate you are truely competitive at the game. The mainstream methods are there for a reason, because they are the most fair and balanced, and thus are a true test of skill.
but what about super sonic. D:I would actually consider the homerun bat more broken than most FS's >.<
When thrown, it can kill you at extremely low %, no matter who you are.
No the kid doesn't got "talent". I can dissect his entire game just by watching these matches.i wish CPU was a member on here
i would have loved to read his thoughts
14 year old man thats young already winning tourneys
the kids got talent
Quit investing your time watching brawl vids if you hate it so much. GTFONo the kid doesn't got "talent". I can dissect his entire game just by watching these matches.
Spot dodge whenever they get close and punish. That's all he did and he won a pretty decent sized tourney. It's time to wake up and smell the coffee. Brawl isn't a good game.
It was an items tourney. CPU was apparently better with items. If you watch the third match look at his usage of the items and notice how he used all items effectively.not only did the better player clearly lose due to items,