Prepare to be Astounded One Last Time: Wiseguy’s Brawl Predictions THE FINAL VERSION!

Wiseguy · Jun 21, 2007

Geez, this could take a while...

Chief Mendez said:
1. Halo's a much better game than Perfect Dark.

2. PDZero had a fine multiplayer mode, glitches aside, but what really killed it was the
story mode. For some reason, Joanna's nothing more than a stereotypical valley girl.
Only with a gun. THEN AGAIN, this is Rare we're talking about here...

1) I don't doubt it, but I would argue that Golden Eye and PD were more revolutionary
for their time than Halo was for it's time. As far as which would be better on DS,
Perfect Dark is the clear choice. A remake of the greatest N64 game ever (yes, I said
it) could be done better on the DS than trying to re-create an Xbox game on the
handheld.

Chief Mendez said:
1. How can we be sure that space level is an SF stage? Sure, it's white and blue and in
space...but I don't see any Arwings or Wolfens flying around...

I destinctly remember seeing the Great Fox in the background of that stage in the
trailer, so that would be a confirmation.

I just hope they bring back my favorite stage: Sector Z. Corneria is great, but it's
still a pale comparison of the original Great Fox stage.

Chief Mendez said:
2. I'm 99% sure, after watching the second trailer multiple times, that Snake's level is
based on the Heliport from MGS1 (A Hind D?). So expect spotlights, genome soldiers,
and..."a security camera".

I agree. It's clearly from the Twin Snakes.

On a related note, I read in Nintendo Power that Kojima was designing Snake's stage
personally. Was this ever officially confirmed?

Chief Mendez said:
This is a toughie. If it were up to me, we'd keep good ol' Zebes, but then add
Sanctuary Fortress (Echoes) and Impact Crater (Prime). But it seems we're stuck with
the old "2D" Samus, judging by her look. This makes me think that Sakura's chosen to
ignore the Prime games when it comes to creating Metroid materials. If that is indeed
the case, I think we'll still have Zebes, but we'll also see the Space Pirate
Mothership (Zero Mission) and some other random environment, like Norfair or Crateria.

To my eye, the new Samus appears to be somewhere between 2-D Samus and Prime Samus, but
that's just me. Personally, I would have liked to see them go all the way, like with TP
Link, and program Suited Samus in all here stuper detailed Prime glory.

I sincerely hope that we see stages from the Prime series. So many locations in those
games would lend themselves perfectly to a Smash Bros stage.

Chief Mendez said:
MPO, in my humble opinion, is a bad game. The storyline's much lighter than in any other
MGS game, and it feels alot more like...Syphon Filter (generic third person action game)
than Metal Gear. It doesn't help that the PSP's analog stick sticks.

Regardless, I did play most of it, and while I never unlocked Sigint, I have gotten to
play as him, and he plays like everyone else in the game, except that...actually, he is
like everyone else in the game, just with some different "stats". Same thing with
Ocelot: the only one difference between him and everyone else is that his bullets
ricochet.

Yeah, I heard that the game suffered from the PSP's limitations and was highly
overrated.

On another matter, tell me Mr. Encyclopedia: have you played any of the pre-Solid Metal
Gear games? What do you think of the possibilty of seeing them remade for the DS?

Chief Mendez said:

That's what I thought. :laugh:

I love TP to death, but part of me really wished we had seen a continuation of the WW
storyline instead. Here's hoping this is the first of many Zelda games on DS.

Chief Mendez said:
EDIT - Ryu Hayabusa for the win, man. I wouldn't have said so last week, but I
downloaded Ninja Gaiden on the VC, and man are those games awesome. Even better than I
remember them being, since now I can actually get through them. And Dragon Sword
doesn't hurt his chances either.

I'm pretty shocked at how positively Dragon Sword has been previewed recently -
considering that the action is controlled exclusively with the stylus. On the
1up Yours Podcast, they claimed the game felt exactly like a real Ninja Giaden sequel.

Devastlian said:
Ya, I'm excited about this game, too.

For the first time in human history, we are getting new Zelda, Metroid, Mario and Smash
Bros games in the span of a few months. This is a great time to be Nintendo fan.

YosterDragon said:
Congrats Mendez! Don't cliffhangers suck and rock all at the same time? No closure
...but we can indeed hope for a sequel

Sadly, I suspect we may see a Beyond Good and Evil sequel in the near future. Ubisoft is
too busy making Red Steel 2...

YosterDragon said:
It looks like it'll be great! I'm still a little shaky on the stylus controls though.
Given what we all expect from the umpteen Zelda games that used the good ol' D-pad and
buttons combo, I wonder if the stylus controls will feel just as tight?

But then again, everyone was nervous about TP's Wiimote control, and that turned out
just fine. So there's probably no need to worry.

I too was nervous about the controls. But after reading the positive hands on impression
from IGN, I'm no longer worried in the least. Also, being able to write notes on your
maps and previcely map your ship's course with the stylus sound like great ideas.

samusrules93 said:
@wiseguy
oh, so what i said wasn't good enough for a quote?
i actuallt didn't, but now that you mention it, either somewhere from the main place
(where you first enter the ruins) or in that room where you fight the war wasp hive
and there is poison all around, with a few bridges. though now that i think of it, a
place from magmoor caverns would be cooler, especially with those lava dragon creatures
popping up from time to time.

Sorry man. You posted while I was compiling that massive post, so I had to edit you
in...

The Chozo Temple and Magmoor caverns were both awesome and memorable enviornments, but I
personally consider the Artifact Temple to have a more uniquely Metroid Prime vibe, if
you know what I mean. Lot's of games have fire worlds and ancient ruins - but the
Artifact temple is one of a kind. Still, any Metroid Prime setting would cool with me.

Geez, I can hardly wait for Prime 3...

Ferro De Lupe said:
Look what I found... It's my Krystal moveset.

Ug... Now I remember why I buried it. It sucks...

While it isn't quite on par with your awesome Midna/Wolf moveset, I wouldn't call this
one poor. Pretty much all your ideas are the logical choices for Krystal's staff
moveset, particularily the B-attacks.

Chief Mendez said:
Magmoors. The Magmoors of Magmoor Caverns.

Strange how that works... :laugh:

Chief Mendez said:
^^^
I should also point out (since we're now supposed to talk about stages) that I never,
ever want to see anything (other than Krystal) from StarFox Adventures in the
already-superior-Brawl. Despite the game being fun at the time (a time when there was
nothing else on the 'Cube to play), it was so...terribly unoriginal and
insipid...

So basically, just let Krystal share Fox's stages. It'd work better if they used her
post-Adventures outfit(s), which actually makes more sense, seeing as how Fox's outfit
is very reminiscent of Command. Also, Assault/Command are much better than
Adventures.

I strongly disagree. Adventures is a great Zelda/Starfox hybrid and one of the best
games on the Cube. Sure, it is outclassed by Wind Waker in just about every way - but
it was still a lengthy, fun adventure will highly inventive enviornments and astounding
gameplay variety. Sure, the story won't win any awards, but it has some fun and
memorable moments. Honouring Gamecube classics like SF: Adventures is what Brawl is all
about.

Although they are very different games, I would classify Assault and Adventures as about
equal. They both have their flaws, but they are both fun games in their own right - and
neither live up to the masterpiece that is Starfox 64.

Ferro De Lupe said:
Personally, I like Adventures more than the rest of
the Star Fox series. The Star Fox games are Space Shooters and I have never been a fan
of Space Shooters. Adventures is the only Star Fox game I enjoy because it is an
Adventure game.

Use her Post-Adventures outfit? No way... The staff goes much better with the Amazon
outfit, plus...well...she looks better in it.

I'm glad i'm not the only one who enjoyed Adventures...

While it doesn't concern me greatly either way, it seems to me that if Krystal is
getting a staff moveset (which she should) it makes sense to use her appearance from
the game in which she used her staff. That would be Adventures.

Chief Mendez said:
^^^
While I agree that her Adventures get-up looks better, think about it: Adventures wasn't
even supposed to be a SF game, and now that Krystal's a SF character, I think it makes
more sense for her to appear in her actual SF outfit.

And regardless of your feelings towards it, Adventures isn't generally considered to be
a real StarFox game. She could still use her staff...I don't think she just dumped it
after joining the team.

Adventures is very different from the other games in the series, no doubt. But it is
very much a "real" Starfox game. It'a Starfox, and it's a game. You do the math.

SAMaine said:
It has 10 games and an OVA, woo... Doesn't save the fact that the
only reasonable popular Fire Emblem characters are Marth, Sigurd, Hector, Lyn, and Ike.
Is it more popular that Starfox, Metroid, or Kirby, because my idea gets three
characters for each franchise for that list. Fire Emblem with two characters is
outperforming F-Zero, Kid Icarus (Which appeared on Captain N), Ice Climber,
Earthbound, and Game & Watch (which actually has 40 some-odd games), i.e. the cult or
retro hits. Alright, F-Zero deserves another character as well. It's got a longer anime
series, and I think 10 games. I guess Black Shadow will have to do.

Not only were the NES and SNES FE gamesconsidered to be in the same leauge as Mario and
Zelda (in Japan, at least) but the GBA games were also highly successful around the
world. PoR, while it suffered from the GC's small installed base, was reasonably
successful and was well recieved by critics and fans alike. It's also worth noting that
there were more FE characters on Sakurai's Japanese poll than any other videogame
franchise. Considering the vast number of popular characters form the series, I don't
consider 3 FE reps to be that much of a stretch.

SAMaine said:
Fighting game fanatics will ditch Melee as soon as Brawl comes out. Super Smash Bros. is
a series and fighting game fanatics love to use the most recent game in a series. (Who
plays Virtua Fighter 2 or Street Fighter Alpha 2 now?) Besides, Popo and Nana have an
original moveset (Big Plus here) and is perfect as a fighter composed of a
team.

Well, if you check out the SSB 64 section of Smashboards, you'll notice that the game
continues to have a thriving fanbase. They still organize tournaments and everything. I
suspect that the same will happen for Melee after Brawl's release - though obviously
Brawl will be far more popular.

The ICs do have a unique moveset - but so do countless other characters who could be
included in their place. Given the choice, I would rather see Balloon Fighter or Mach
Rider get a trun in the spot light rather than play as ICs yet again. There is a reason
the game isn't called Super Smash Bros Melee 2.

SAMaine said:
You stated that Ice Climbers and Mr. Game & Watch would likely not appear in Brawl. I
said they were likely and GAVE my opinions why.

You said:
"Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Young Link, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, Falco, Donkey Kong, Captain
Falcon, Ness, Yoshi, Mr. Game & Watch, Ice Climbers, and Marth are very likely with
their movesets from Melee. Zelda and Ganondorf are very likely with new moves."

I replied:
"Stating something as fact does not make it so. State reasons why, and I'll engade you
in what we in the Brawl Dicussion ection call 'discussion'."

Let's try and keep our facts straight, savy?

SAMaine said:
They nerf because they try to balance the game. Only Virtua Fighter succeeds in balance
and that's because they only add two fighters for each iteration.

So you agree: Peach will be nerfed (or given a new moveset) to create a more balanced
game. It was for this same reason that Kirby and Ness were drastically nerfed for
Melee.

SAMaine said:
Because A) He's a legendary, what legendary or starter appears in more than two of the
main Pokemon games without having been part of a Nintendo Event? Mewtwo was in Red,
Blue, & Yellow and thier remake FireRed & LeafGreen. Also, B) Psychic gets pwned by
Dark-type now. In Red & Blue, if you had a Mewtwo, they had no chance unless they had a
Mewtwo as well. It's also the final boss of the first Pokemon game. He was important
enough to win his spot in Brawl despite not appearing in Gold, Silver, or
Crystal.

Not that I especially care, but my suspicion is that a character from the more recent
games will take Mewtwo's place. Being an important character was enough to get him in
Melee, but since that time his importance has faded.

SAMaine said:
True, but then of the Starfox characters only Krystal actually has that
"not-a-clone-of-Fox" thing down. Any Starfox character other than Krystal, even Wolf
who shouldn't be, will likely be a clone of Fox... May as well just keep Falco in, if
you are going to clone Fox's moves.

Both Falco and Wolf are important characters in the SF series, so I could potentially
see either of them appearing as Fox's clone. I gave the nod to Wolf, since he has yet
to appear in a Smash Bros game but it was a tough decision that I'm still not entirely
happy with. They are both great choices, but I highly doubt that they will both
appear.

SAMaine said:
Marth still beats Ike because, Marth has an OVA Series, which actually got dubbed in the
US BEFORE MELEE! Marth's series was already in the US when Melee came out! I have yet to
see Ike's OVA series. Perhaps you can provide me a link?

Well, that and Marth and Ike fight differently and are unique compared to one another.
Now, if there was just one single Fire Emblem character, then yes, Ike's the best
choice... But I say there is gonna be two, and say Marth will say.

As Mendez already pointed out, the FE Anime was a total flop, and was promptly canceled.
I suggest you find it yourself, should you feel so inclined.

Regardless, Smash Bros is first and formost about paying tribute to videogame characters
- not anime characters. And since Ike's games are available to a far greater number of
gamers, he trumps Marth in importance.

Marth and Ike would fight differently (making it unlikely that Marth will be an Ike
clone like the Black Knight) but Miciaiah would be infinitely more unique. Simply put,
having yet another blue haired, FE swordfighter would be redundant and unnecessary.

SAMaine said:
Which Retro characters who hasn't yet appeared in Melee or Brawl is left? A characters
whose games reappear in compilations like the Game & Watch Gallery series? who also has
40+ Games to his credit like almost the complete Game & Watch series? Oh. If 10 games
count as popular then 40 game must mean a must-have as a fighter!

FE is still going strong. The G&W series is on life support (I think there was just a
Japanese only port of some of the earlier games).

Other retro characters? How about Geno, Balloon Fighter, ROB, Mach Rider, Mac and the
Laughing Dog.

SAMaine said:
Sure any character would be programmed in at the same time, but characters without a
moveset would require more time to come up a move set for them. All you have to do for
the Ice Climbers is think up a Final Smash for them. That's if they are programming it
from scratch, but they aren't. They have the development tools from Melee including the
coding for the Ice Climbers.

Bringing a character from Melee to Brawl is harder than copying and pasting. Depending
on how Brawl's engine has been modified, it could very well be easier just to start
from scratch and design a new moveset with Brawl specifically in mind.

SAMaine said:
Umm, Link was the main character. Midna was the Navi/Minish Cap/Talking Boat of Twilight
Princess. Also, Ocarina of Time is STILL more popular than Twilight Princess... Link to
the Past is more popular than Twilight Princess. Should Error be a fighter, since he is
from the popular Zelda II?

We have Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf... that's the Legend of Zelda in a nutshell.

As a couple people have pointed out, Midna is actually the central figure in the story
of Twilight Princess. The majority of the game is spent fleshing out her past and
deveoping her character - while Link has about as much personality as the Master sword.
Her role in the game far exceeds that of mere sidekicks like Navi - to the point where
it could be argued that she is, in fact, the true hero of Twilight Princess. If
anything, Link is her sidekick.

ALttP may have been more popular it's day than TP is now, but it is inarguable that today TP is far more popular - simply becuase it's been over ten years since ALttP was released, while TP was juest released. Not only is TP is Zelda getting all the hype these days, but it was the 10th best selling console game last month. Expect TP to continue selling as more and more peopl buy Wiis.

SAMaine said:
Seems logical enough. Actually, you could have Dark Samus have the moveset of Samus in
SSBM, and Samus have the Down+B of Zelda only instead of Shiek, Zero Suit Samus. That'd
be kickass actually.

I'm glad we finally agree on something.

SAMaine said:
No she wouldn't be. Zero Suit Samus is from Metroid Zero Mission, which made by
Intelligent Systems or RD1... I'm not sure, but it's from the Japanese.

What I meant was, Zamus is from the Metroid series - which is popular pretty much everywhere BUT Japan. At any rate, although K.Rool was originally made by rare he is also appeared in Nintendo devloped gamed like DK: King of Swing DS and DK Jet for the Wii.

SAMaine said:
Hey don't blame the messenger! The Japanese... they want Black Shadow! I personally
would like Jody Summer or Princia or a Samurai Goroh who actually uses the l33t moves
of a futuristic samurai.

Regardless of what the Japanese may or may not want, it is irrefutable that Saumerai Goroh is far more important to the F-Zero series. Not only is he the Faclon's main rival, but he has also appeared in ever game in the series. While the F-Zero series may not be as popular as it should be (it really is an awesome series) I don't think it would be unreasonable to include one original character (Falcon) and one Ganondorf-esque clone(Goroh).

SAMaine said:
Actually, if they will be playable it makes more sense and would make my mouth water is
if they were part of a whole Create-a-Fighter mode, where you can give them moves and
kick *** online with them.

That isn't a good idea, in my view. People would just create really broken characters - thus making online not fun at all and causing Mii to be banned from tournaments. Just give Mii a Wii Sports/Wii Play inspired moveset and I'll be happy.

SAMaine said:
Well, so did I. Why did you get it as a gift then.

It was a Christmas gift. My brothers and I recieved it with our very first videogame console: the N64. I suppose it was SSB64 that sparked my love of videogames.

SAMaine said:
Don't be a smartass. Link is the default name for the hero of the Zelda Series and you
know it. Besides, who would play "Guy from Super Punch-Out!!" He needs a name. Only one
player character in the Punch-Out!! Series had a name, Mac. Hence, this guy is Mac,
too.

I believe the term you're looking for is "wiseguy".

SAMaine said:
If it's a good game and like the popular Wii Sports and Wii Play, then yes... Casual and
Non gamers will get it, because it's like Wii Sports and Wii Play, and Hardcore gamers
will get it because it's Sonic and Mario, together at last! That's adds up to being the
most popular game on the Wii.

I dunno. I suspect that hardcore gamers will favor Brawl and Mario Galaxy while casual gamers will favor Wii Music and Wii Fitness. Even if M&S is good, it will most likely be lost somewhere in between.

SAMaine said:
Isn't the story of how Snake got into Brawl based on the whole fact that Kojima, not
Konami, begged like a dog to get Snake in the next Smash Bros. game, which at the time
was Melee? Also isn't there those crossovers between Boktai from Kojima and MegaMan.EXE
from Inafune which is based on the fact that they are friends? Oh.

Kojima may have wanted it to happen, but it was the suits at Konami who made it happen. My point is that it's the game companies who own the characters - not the individuals who worked on their games.

SAMaine said:
Sure! Mock my comment despite the fact that Sakurai, ruler of all that is Smash Bros,
agrees with me! Oh.

Where did Sakurai say this? Could it have been... in you imagination?

SAMaine said:
Well, there wouldn't except that Disney is one of these American companies that like to
publish games made with their characters with their own company... I mean the last good
crossover with Disney characters was Roger Rabbit made by Touchstone, which was owned by
Disney. Then there was that stupid Cartoon All-Stars anti-drug video with Pooh. Less
said about that, the better.

Relax. If Nintendo comes calling with a load of cash, asking for Disney to okay Sora's inclusion, they are not going to say "Only if you include Mickey Mouse!"

SAMaine said:
joke (plural jokes) n.

1. an amusing story
2. something said or done for amusement
It was a joke!
3. (figuratively) a worthless thing or person
Your effort at cleaning your room is a joke.
The president is a joke.

If it was a joke, it didn't register with me. Sorry.

Chief Mendez said:
This is the only good point I found inside that mass of inpoliteness. Seriously Wiseguy,
why swap a clone that's already popular in Smash for an identical clone?

Well, if the clone is identical, wouldn't it be just as popular? Whether you include Falco or you include Wolf - you are going to displease a large number of SF fans. If only one of them gets in (which seems probable) My preferance is for the one who hasn't yet appeared in a Smash Bros game.

Chief Mendez said:
...Although, I never took Joe's last game to be his problem. It's just that if Capcom
were to be offered a character, I'm sure they'd pick Megaman. The only way for Joe to
get in would be if Kamiya, Inaba or Mikami (Clover Studio's heads, though I don't know
if any of them actually created Joe) were to pull a Kojima and beg for it.

And for the record, only Red Hot Rumble really sucked. Double Trouble on DS wasn't bad,
just very weird to play, since Joe lacked his VFX powers.

Fair enough. In tommorrow's update, I change the wording in Joe's profile to make perfectly clear that it was onlt Red Hot Rumble that sucked.

Chief Mendez said:
As for the stages...this must've been the fourth or fifth time this week I've heard the
term "Onett-styled stage". That could be telling, depending on your train of thought.
But Tetra's Ship for the win, even if my WW level of choice is Tingle's Island (as
Tingle's stage, because of course...Tingle's going to be a character).

Would it make you feel better if I called it a "Mushroom Kingdom-styled map"? It's the same principle.

As for Tingle, I'm not opposed to his inclusion. However, I don't think we'll get more than one new Zelda character (aside from the big four, who are semi-returning) and Midna is far more worthy.

Drascin said:
More than "main character", Midna was the "protagonist" of TP. I
mean, who else? Link is nothing but her sword arm, doomed to watch and just help while
the events unfold around the true knot of the story, Midna. Zelda's appearance was
nominal, where the only things she did were agree with Midna and keep hogging the light
arrows despite being unable to hit the broad side of a barn. And Ganon, apart from being
a bit of an unnecessary tack-on, is the antagonist, not the protagonist.

In OoT, the story revolved around Link. He was the hero, the one who changed things, the
one with the whole destiny thing. In TP, however, he's nothing but a skilled warrior you
control in service to the true protagonist. Which is the Twilight Pincess herself.

At least, that's how I see it.

Well said Drascin. I completly agree.

Drascin said:
Aaanyway, for the additions to the list:

-Lost Woods: awesome. Skullkid, little stalfo guys, and Saria's song. Yeah, I could see
myself using such an scenario very much. Though I have to admit any scenario with
Saria's song as the background music gets my vote instantly, anyway . My only problem
is that I also wanted Twilight World as a Zelda stage, and two stages from TP and one
from WW might be a bit too much. Dammit, so much awesome to choose from, and so very
few spots.

There are alot of great stage ideas from TP. Hopefully, every playable character will get their ow stage - and Midna's would most certainly be the Twilight Relm. Did you have any specific ideas in mind, or just anywhere from the Relm?

Drascin said:
-Tetra's ship: I usually sided with the ninjas in the immortal internet debate. However,
Tetra's crew made me see them in a totally new light. I approve of the idea, given that
I like both the ambience and the type of scenario (corneria is one of my favorites) but
it requires having Nico popping at the deck door randomly and throwing bombs at people
.

Good point. :laugh:

I'll add something to that effect in tommorow's update. (Remind me if I forget).

Drascin said:
Oh, and Mendez...

...the mere idea of Tingle as an smasher makes my brain hurt, to be honest. But then, I
never saw his apeal. To me, he was only a rupee-addicted weirdo (400 rupees for
decoding a map? That's probably more than a man earns in a life of honest work!) who
tried to wear green tights without realizing only Link can look good in such a
garment.

To me, Tingle is a character I hate - but he's also a character I love to hate. His bizzare appearance, his stupid sayings, his seemingly unstable personaality and the fact that he enslaves his siblings add up to a character who is at the very least, unique and memorable. Given his importance to the series, I put him just behing Midna.

Copperpot said:
*Shudder* If Tingle makes the cut, I'm going to have him in
every single match I play just so I can beat the tar out of him.

Let's just praythat, if he makes it, he isn't high tier. Otherwise, EVERYONE is going to play as Tingle. :dizzy:

Copperpot said:
For stages, I'd like to see a stage inside of Bowser's castle. There could be a massive
window on one side (the first person to get struck hard enough in the direction breaks
it), leading to a balcony outside where you could then plummet to your death. The
other side of the room could be a massive pit with a Thwomp that periodically comes
down from the ceiling to make a temporary platform. There would be three side-by-side
chandeliers hanging from above that would serve as 'unstable' platforms that could fall
if the chains are cut. Players can die in any direction.

Try not to flame me too much. It's something that I just came up with. ^_^;;

Let's just say you may want to check out tommorow's update.

Chief Mendez said:
^^^
I think Bowser's Castle (whatever form it takes) is one of those 'obvious' additions.

...Right up there with TINGLE FOR BRAWL!
Come on, the guy's a 35 year old who's fondest wish is to become a fairy. He's
such an oddball character that you can't help but love him. The Zelda franchise can't
be all doom and gloom, and that's where Tingle makes his strongest showing.

That, and he's fast becoming (if he isn't already) a staple of the Zelda games.

Oh, he's a staple of the series alright - for better or for worse. And I'll bet money that he appears in some form - but maybe not as a playable character.

Ferro De Lupe said:
If I were to give you a picture of a lady with a staff what
would be your first train of thought?

A) "A staff? Must be some kind of Amazonian woman."
B) "A staff? Must be from the future."

The Amazon outfit goes with the staff and vice-versa. Without one, the other is out of
place.

I'm siding with Ferro on this one. The Adventures look just makes more sense.

Chief Mendez said:
^^^
"A staff? Must be Donatello/Kilik/Goku/Cid." (Okay, so none of those are women...point
is, a staff doesn't always indicate time period.)

If worst come to worst, they can always just "metallify" the staff, so it's not as weird
looking.

My big worry about the Adventures outfit is that then there's the risk of having other
elements from Adventures marring the game. At the very least, both outfits should/could
be in there, I just think her Assault/Command one's more likely.

I'd love to see other elements from Adventures in the game. Like I said, it's a great game that deserves to be remembered.

YosterDragon said:
You're just asking for trouble, aren't you? I don't think
I'll ever understand why Tingle is actually *shudder* popular in Japan. I wanted to hurt
him the first time I saw him in Majora's Mask. On that note, let's see him in Brawl on
the level of Mr. Saturn--i.e. as a punching bag. But I want to see him writhe in pain
when he's tossed at other characters or knocked clear offstage

Tingle as the new punching bag would actually be perfect.

YosterDragon said:
Though I do agree with your opinion on Tetra's ship being a good stage; the more pirates
the better. And speaking of pirates, I actually thought that Gangplank Galleon would be
a great stage to represent the DK franchise if K. Rool gets in. But if I had to choose
between Tetra's ship and Gangplank Galleon? Not sure...

For me personally, my vote goes to the Zelda map - since I'm not that big a DK fan. But I could see either working.

Devastlian said:
As for the stages: I like all of your choices, Wiseguy. Pirate Ship FTW. With that music
update, I thought it would be cool if there was a stage where you fought on Ridley's
back. That'd be awesome.

Thanks, I'm glad you liked them.

But Ridley as a stage? I have to disagree. Ridley would be perefect as a playable character. There are plenty of other choices for a Metroid stage.

Zabutur said:
I hate Tingle.
there was this image one time of him that made me think that he was going to come to my
bed and molest me. Oh, Lord almighty, please protect me.
as far as Krystal is concerned, I say go for Starfox command look, Assault head. (the
heads got kinda wacky in command IMO)
Krystal as a clone of Fox (ie: speedy attacks) wouldn't hurt me. I'm actually for clones
to a flameable extent, so I won't go on.

Wow. I guess some people really do hate Tingle...

I would never falme a fellow clone advocate (we are an endangered species as it is) but I think a stff weilding Krystal would be too unique to pass up. There are pleny of other choices for a Fox clone.

O D I N said:
I also hate tingle...

Allow me to add my two cents, given the updated first page (which is the only thing I've
read, and had time to read thus far)...

Welcome to my thread Odin. It's always good to hear someone else's point of view.

O D I N said:
As far as the most likely to return, I agree. There's no reason why characters from
melee such as Bowser, Peach, DK, Luigi, and Capt. Falcon shouldn't be in Brawl (I know
there were others, but I'm tired). I agree that some characters such as... :tear:
Doc... and Mr.G&W and Pichu shouldn't be in brawl. However... I have a few qualms with
these "new characters"...

Metroid: I'm a HUGE metroid fan. I love the series (didn't really dig MP:H), but I just
can't get around Ridley being a character... Maybe it's because I've grown up with the
vision in my head (and in the game) that Ridley is 4x's my size (when compared to
Samus). That's just me. I wouldn't be opposed to Ridley being in Brawl... But that's
just my two cents on that. Dark Samus I'm okay with. I actually really like that
idea. I also want the Fusion suit involved, even if it's just a cosmetic thing. I
loved Fusion. Fusion was a great game, and it saddens me that Nintendo hasn't gone
back to side-scrolling Metroid. T_T

Well, your entitled to your opinion, but I'm still excited at the prospect of Ridley as a playable character. Maybe, if and when Ridley is included, he will be implemented in such a way that he will be true to the Ridley you grew up with.

As for the Samus' fusion suit, I would love to see it as an alternate costume.

O D I N said:
Megaman: I love Megaman almost as much as Metroid. Another one of my childhood games
that I had growing up. And the cosmetic possibilities are endless. Personally, I'd
rather see X and Zero in the game, but I'll just be happy with Megaman,
period.

Yep, Megaman is still going strong. Nintendo would be wise to include him.

O D I N said:
MGS: I raise a point to you that I haven't really seen anywhere else... Has anyone else
noticed that the "MGS" stage, appears to be two seperate stages? One is outdoors, and
another is indoors (and it appears to be the Alaskan base... can't remember the name
off the top of my head). If we noticed anything from Melee, particularly All-star
mode, is that every character more or less had their "own stage". So... if we have two
MGS stages...

I agree with your observation: it appears to be two stages. Although, if they turn out to be two parts of one huge stage, I'd b fine with that.

O D I N said:
I propose this to you... for a second MGS character, my first vote would be towards Grey
Fox. He's bad ***, and to boot, he could be the character Sheik players could relate
too (except he's more bad ***, has a sword, and could teleport a lot better than Sheik
could). Did I mention bad ***? >_> Anyway, I'm not gonna sit here and list off
movesets. My second MGS choice would be none other than the Solid Snake clone himself,
Liquid Snake. If Sakurai is gonna have cloned characters again (which, I don't want
them to get rid of my Ganondorf T_T), why not have an actual CLONE. >_> Moving
on...

Dude, Metal Gear is the very definition of awesome, so I'd love to see some more characters from the series. I esspecially like your Gray Fox idea.

O D I N said:
DK: I like the idea of Diddy Kong. I always thought that a Diddy Kong/Dixie Kong team
up much like the IC's would be fun. K. Rool, I'm indifferent with, but I hate the idea
of him being a Bowser clone.

Bleh, I can't say I like the idea of Diddy/Dixie. At all. Diddy is cool enough to get in all on his own.

What's so bad about K. Rool as a Bowser clone?

O D I N said:
Zelda: My biggest problems lie here... I'm a Ganondorf main. I don't think I would
enjoy Ganondorf having a sword. It'd mess with what I already have now (which is a
moveset I REALLY like), and has potential to suck (we already appear to have 4-5+ sword
users). With Zelda... Since Sheik isn't returning, you COULD make her down+B draw out
her rapier, but see above (my girlfriend plays as Zelda, so I know she's just as
worried if she returns). Link... Is probably gonna be the same he's been since SSB64
and melee. :shrug: A few changes here and there, but he looks the same to
me.

I can appreciate your concerns, but if you think about it, thi is actually the best of both worlds. Not only does Ganondorf get his own moveset, but Faclon get's a new clone in the form of Goroh - who would probably control very similarly to Melee's Ganondorf. As for Zelda, I imagine she would control simlarly -that's not guaranteed.

At any rate, Brawl will have a pretty big roster, so I'm sure everyone will be able to find at least one character who suits them.

O D I N said:
Mario: I'm gonna miss Doc... U_U I thought that character idea was genius, and he's just
too much fun to play as. But, whatever. :shrug: I'm fine with Mario, fine with Luigi
(a Luigi's Mansion moveset would be alright)((Oh, by the way... Luigi isn't a clone of
Mario by ANY means. >_>)) Peach I'm okay with, and Bowser just better be the same. Eff
Bowser Jr. That's what I have to say about him. What ever happened to the Koopa kids
from SMB3 and SMW? Huh? HUH?! <_<

I will also miss Doc. My favorite Melee fighter by far.

Actually, Luigi's moveset is cloned from Mario's. The only difference is that his stats are redically different and many of his attacks have been drastically altered or replaced. Hense the term: Luigified clone.

Hey, don't blame Bowser Jr. It's not his fault today's kids are too stupid to remember more than one Koopling at a time.

O D I N said:
Kirby: Meh. Don't care that much. Yay metaknight.

Kid Icarus: Pit... Appears to be the new Marth... I get the feeling he's gonna be up on
the tier list. He'll probably be light as hell though.

Fire Emblem: I'm in total support of Ike and Black Knight. It makes sense to have an
internationally character favorite than two random schmoes. You could easily add two
more FE chars (to fill up the 4) and add one more who was popular with the US/Europe or
another Japan favorite... Marth and Roy?? >_>

Yeah, I could live with that. Personally, however, I'd rather have Miciaiah accompany Ike and BK since she would be a more unique addtion than yet another sword fighter.

O D I N said:
Star Fox: I hate Krystal. I really do. She's an annoying character by my standards,
and I just never liked her to begin with. Wolf O'donnel; Hell freakin yes. The most
plausible villian to counter Fox next to Andross(and Andross as anyone but background
villian like Kraid would be pretty lame in my opinion). Falco can stay, I guess. Why
not make another SF villian take the 4th spot,like Leon, or that panther guy...
Panther(?)?

Krystal may be anoying, but her staff would make for a unique movset. At the very least, if you hate her so much, you can always beat her into a pulp.

I'm not to sure about Leon or Panther. Three SF characters seems like plenty to me.

O D I N said:
Chrono Trigger: Hell yes. I'm all for Crono, but I'm more supportive of Magus and Frog.
I would die a happy man if Magus was in Brawl... Unlikely... but... U_U

Golden Sun: Where's my Golden Sun DS?!?! Nuf' said.

Viewtiful Joe: Plausible indeed. It's a popular series, and he'd make a fun SSB
character.

Square-Enix: I hate the idea of Sora being in Brawl... I really do. I never liked Sora,
and I don't see what's so great about him. I am however, 115% supportive of Geno for
Brawl. Geno needs to make a comeback, and it's a shame that Geno is tied up by
Square's hands when S-E isn't even using that character

Here's a random thought, and then I'm done. I'm sure I'll get flamed for this... But I
was looking at the musicians... I know it lists their previous work just to show what
they worked on... but the one that stood out to me was Masato Kouda, who did music for
Devil May Cry. The more I though about it, the more I liked the idea of Dante being in
Brawl. Now, I'm prepared to flamed, killed, and pillaged for that comment, but I just
like the idea of how a character with a moveset potential like Dante's could work in
Brawl. I know the chances of Dante appearing in Brawl are extremely slim (at least I
didn't say Master Chief), but I was just tossing out a fun possibility.

I'm sure there are spelling errors galore, but I'm tired.

:hides behind flame retardant shield:

I've never played Devil May Cry, but I don't doubt that character is awesome. But like you said: his chances are very, very slim.

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to comment on my predictions. For what it's worth, I didn't notice any spelling errors.

NukeA6 said:
Updated again, huh?

Ninja Gaiden had 3 games in the NES. They were good but they were pretty tough. I never thought of Ryu for Brawl but he would be great. Sadly he hasn't been mentioned (this the first time I heard of him as a suggestion).

Viewtful would be interesting but he seems to have faded like Capcoms old mascot, Captain Commando.

I would take any Metroid stage that has no lava (we already have enough of that).

If Sacred Grove is gonna be in Brawl, they MUST have TP's version of Saria's Song. Best version of the song, hands down!

Thanks for the input, NukeA6. I'm glad you enjoyed my update.

DarkKnight077 said:
Dude...Llyod? OMFG..I <3 U!

Anyways I don't the like addition of Wolf Link/ Minda. If you see Ferro Lupe's thread. Wolf Link/Minda got a very very low rating. Simply because that is way too many Links. Plus Wolf Link/Minda was kind of a big thing. Not that big of a thing. It's either Minda by herself or no die. Sure Wolf Link/Minda make look great..but too many Link models.

Love the Llyod thing..though.

Llyod would be a very awesome character. Keep your fingers crossed that Sakurai feels the same way.

As for Midna/Wolf I don't see it as aproblem. After all, there were two Marios and Two Links in Melee. Besides, you must admit that Wolf Link would provide a pretty unique moveset.

Ferro De Lupe said:
Once all the good characters were voted on, the topic slowly started to die. I decided to let it go while it still had some dignity.

The topic is dead. Let it sleep in peace.

I'm sad to see the thread go, but at least it had a great run.

I think that about covers it for now. Great Grey Fox moveset Mendez. I'll coment on it tommorrow.

DarkKnight077 · Jun 21, 2007

I'm not feeling it though. =/ I would rather much another villain..Too many heroes from Zelda. Way too many Heroes. Even though Minda is an anti-hero though. Kind of but not really.

Chief Mendez · Jun 21, 2007

To what DarkKnight said before (not this post above me, but the one on the previous page): Not to mention a cooler, unrestricted potential moveset.

Imp Midna for the win, yo!

EDIT - Great timing, Wiseguy.

DarkKnight077 · Jun 21, 2007

Imp Minda would be great since you could all ready base a moveset on her alone. Wolf Link would just hinder her and then I would be playing TP again. Not saying..it's a bad game it's that Wolf Link/Minda gets a tad boring for me. Imp Minda is good thing seeing that in the end of the game she actually still only cared for herself and the Twilight Kingdom.

Also I liked to note WW Gannondrof for the win. Two swords are better than one.

Chief Mendez · Jun 21, 2007

Wiseguy said:
1) I don't doubt it, but I would argue that Golden Eye and PD were more revolutionary for their time than Halo was for it's time. As far as which would be better on DS, Perfect Dark is the clear choice. A remake of the greatest N64 game ever (yes, I said
it) could be done better on the DS than trying to re-create an Xbox game on the
handheld.

While Goldeneye made shooters work on consoles, Halo made console shooters unique. They're both equally innovative in my book.

Best N64 game evar=

I actually couldn't say. My best-remembered 64 games are Smash, Ocarina and SF Rush 2049. It's all a blur, really.

Wiseguy said:
On a related note: I read in Nintendo Power that Kojima was designing Snake's stage personally. Was this ever officially confirmed?

Yeah, that's right. At least, that's right according to Wikipedia. And NP. It's probably true.

Wiseguy said:
On another matter, tell me Mr. Encyclopedia: have you played any of the pre-Solid Metal Gear games? What do you think of the possibilty of seeing them remade for the DS?

Zero to none. Believe you me, if you grew up with Metal Gear Solid, you don't want to play Metal Gear or Metal Gear Gaiden/Pocket/Whatever. The only one I've never played is Snake's Revenge, but from what I hear of it, it's not fun. At all.

Wiseguy said:
I too was nervous about the controls. But after reading the positive hands on impression from IGN, I'm no longer worried in the least. Also, being able to write notes on your maps and previcely map your ship's course with the stylus sound like great ideas.

Heck, forget IGN. Famitsu (take EGM, GameInformer, IGN and Joystiq, mash them together, than make that a weekly Japanese game mag=Famitsu) gave the game a great 39/40, making it equal to ALttP, but worse than Nintendogs...?

Wiseguy said:
Adventures is very different from the other games in the series, no doubt. But it is very much a "real" Starfox game. It'a Starfox, and it's a game. You do the math.

Then I guess Mario is Missing and the CD-i Zeldas are real Mario and Zelda games, right?

Technically, it is...but realistically, it's not.

Wiseguy said:
Relax. If Nintendo comes calling with a load of cash, asking for Disney to okay Sora's inclusion, they are not going to say "Only if you include Mickey Mouse!"

Mickey Mouse would...completely dominate. It may be a pipe dream, but it's an AWESOME one.

Wiseguy said:
Would it make you feel better if I called it a "Mushroom Kingdom-styled map"? It's the same principle.

...(aside from the big four, who are semi-returning)

Ah, but there are vertical pits in both Mushroom Kingdoms. So HA!

And who are the "big four"? Link, Zelda, Ganon...Young Link?

And as far as Adventures goes, I have one word, one triple-syllable pile of letters that will silence all of you silly supporters of the game: BAFMODAD.

...Seriously.

DarkKnight077 said:
Imp Minda would be great since you could all ready base a moveset on her alone. Wolf Link would just hinder her and then I would be playing TP again. Not saying..it's a bad game it's that Wolf Link/Minda gets a tad boring for me. Imp Minda is good thing seeing that in the end of the game she actually still only cared for herself and the Twilight Kingdom.

Also I liked to note WW Gannondrof for the win. Two swords are better than one.

Yeah, the Wolf sections lost their appeal by Lake Hylia. It didn't help that I had just got through Okami twice almost literally the day before I brought home my Wii and TP. If Midna were to be riding wolf-back, then half of her moveset's going to be generic biting/clawing/tail whipping action.

And two swords are always better, especially when you can block behind you (seriously, that's awesome when he does that) without even looking.

O D I N · Jun 21, 2007

Mendez and Wiseguy, thanks for the comments on my post. Glad to see there isn't any flaming here. ^_^ I think I'll hang out for a while.

Mendez; that moveset for Grey Fox was awesome. So awesome, I'd consider dropping Ganondorf for him.

Although, I'd make his D-air a little more like Ganondorf's... or Falcon's... either or, and I'd be happy with it. Though the moveset you gave was fantastic.

Drascin · Jun 21, 2007

Wiseguy said:
Geez, this could take a while...

I can believe that. Man, yours are not walsl of text any longer. No, this has gone far beyond the mere concept of wall, to start comparing with the very boundaries of the Earth's mantle in length and density.

Which is exactly why I'm going to retort to a lot of your post! Suffer under your own attack, you fiend! *casts mirror wall*

Wiseguy said:
1) I don't doubt it, but I would argue that Golden Eye and PD were more revolutionary
for their time than Halo was for it's time. As far as which would be better on DS,
Perfect Dark is the clear choice. A remake of the greatest N64 game ever (yes, I said
it) could be done better on the DS than trying to re-create an Xbox game on the
handheld.

I'm with Wisey here. I don't know why, but PD trapped me a lot more than Halo did. I actually bothered completing the challenges in PD, but I didn't even complete my first playthrough through Halo!

Also, loved the weapon design in the game. The Slayer was the MGS Nikita on steroids (pilotable missiles are ALWAYS a plus), the Maian guns were just cool (Callisto, Phoenix, Farsight), and double-intent kits like the RPG120 (I think that was the model... it's been what, seven years since I last played? Anyway, the one which was a sub-machine gun and cloaking device all in one) were aplenty.

Wiseguy said:
I destinctly remember seeing the Great Fox in the background of that stage in the
trailer, so that would be a confirmation.

I just hope they bring back my favorite stage: Sector Z. Corneria is great, but it's
still a pale comparison of the original Great Fox stage.

Yeah, the space stage is from Starfox - the whole spacestation thingy appears in one of the later ones in the saga. And the whole Great Fox going around in the background thing also kind of gave it away

.

Wiseguy said:
To my eye, the new Samus appears to be somewhere between 2-D Samus and Prime Samus, but
that's just me. Personally, I would have liked to see them go all the way, like with TP
Link, and program Suited Samus in all here stuper detailed Prime glory.

I sincerely hope that we see stages from the Prime series. So many locations in those
games would lend themselves perfectly to a Smash Bros stage.

Indeed. Both of your ideas are interesting, and I myself would also favor maybe Impact Crater or Phendrana (I favor soft-colored, calm scenarios frm a visual standpoint, and Phendrana fits that description

)

Wiseguy said:
I love TP to death, but part of me really wished we had seen a continuation of the WW
storyline instead. Here's hoping this is the first of many Zelda games on DS.

Yeah. It's rare we get a continuation from a Zelda, and WW was the best one for it. It even left the ending hanging for it! I honestly can't wait.

Wiseguy said:
For the first time in human history, we are getting new Zelda, Metroid, Mario and Smash
Bros games in the span of a few months. This is a great time to be Nintendo fan.

Yes, yes it is. Phantom Hourglass, Corruption, Galaxy, Brawl... I fear very much for my grades next year ^^u.

Wiseguy said:
The Chozo Temple and Magmoor caverns were both awesome and memorable enviornments, but I
personally consider the Artifact Temple to have a more uniquely Metroid Prime vibe, if
you know what I mean. Lot's of games have fire worlds and ancient ruins - but the
Artifact temple is one of a kind. Still, any Metroid Prime setting would cool with me.

Geez, I can hardly wait for Prime 3...

You and me both, man, you and me both. I need more Metroid - Hunters didn't really deliver as much as I hoped it to, and I'm thirsting for more.

Wiseguy said:
I strongly disagree. Adventures is a great Zelda/Starfox hybrid and one of the best
games on the Cube. Sure, it is outclassed by Wind Waker in just about every way - but
it was still a lengthy, fun adventure will highly inventive enviornments and astounding
gameplay variety. Sure, the story won't win any awards, but it has some fun and
memorable moments. Honouring Gamecube classics like SF: Adventures is what Brawl is all
about.

Although they are very different games, I would classify Assault and Adventures as about
equal. They both have their flaws, but they are both fun games in their own right - and
neither live up to the masterpiece that is Starfox 64.

I honestly found Adventures to be somewhat fun, but lacking in actual content - kind of an adventure minigame to pass the time. And yeah, since Lylat Wars no starfox game has managed to live up to the saga. A pity, really.

Wiseguy said:
Adventures is very different from the other games in the series, no doubt. But it is
very much a "real" Starfox game. It'a Starfox, and it's a game. You do the math.

I think what Mendez meant by "wasn't intended" is exactly that: it may now be a Starfox game, but it wasn't intended to be, as it wasn't really conceived as one. It was to be called Dinosaur Planet, and would star two very young anthro cats as its protagonists.

Wiseguy said:
Not only were the NES and SNES FE gamesconsidered to be in the same leauge as Mario and
Zelda (in Japan, at least) but the GBA games were also highly successful around the
world. PoR, while it suffered from the GC's small installed base, was reasonably
successful and was well recieved by critics and fans alike. It's also worth noting that
there were more FE characters on Sakurai's Japanese poll than any other videogame
franchise. Considering the vast number of popular characters form the series, I don't
consider 3 FE reps to be that much of a stretch.

Along with that, you have to take into account the fact that Smashers really like skilled weaponfighters, and FE is the franchise with more charismatic examples of that category among Nintendo franchises. So yeah, FE is very much likely to be represented by 2-3 chars, minimum.

Wiseguy said:
The ICs do have a unique moveset - but so do countless other characters who could be
included in their place. Given the choice, I would rather see Balloon Fighter or Mach
Rider get a trun in the spot light rather than play as ICs yet again. There is a reason
the game isn't called Super Smash Bros Melee 2.

A-freaking-men. People keep saying all over that they want Brawl to keep everything, and not change the gameplay, and... ****it, people, we're trying to make a new game here, ya know?

Fearing change: apparently, the sign of a true Smasher ¬¬.

Wiseguy said:
So you agree: Peach will be nerfed (or given a new moveset) to create a more balanced
game. It was for this same reason that Kirby and Ness were drastically nerfed for
Melee.

Do not remind me of Ness's fall, please. I loved playing that guy, along with Jigglypuff, but then he was nerfed into absolute oblivion in Melee. Which hurt a lot. I still play him somewhat, but the almost inability to kill anything under 120% damage even with a smash is frustrating.

Wiseguy said:
Not that I especially care, but my suspicion is that a character from the more recent
games will take Mewtwo's place. Being an important character was enough to get him in
Melee, but since that time his importance has faded.

You already know my views about this. I feel Mewtwo very much deserves the spot. But we've already discussed that, and pretty much agreed to disagree, so I'll say no more.

Wiseguy said:
Both Falco and Wolf are important characters in the SF series, so I could potentially
see either of them appearing as Fox's clone. I gave the nod to Wolf, since he has yet
to appear in a Smash Bros game but it was a tough decision that I'm still not entirely
happy with. They are both great choices, but I highly doubt that they will both
appear.

Yeah, whether it is Falco or Wolf is actually irrelevant, I agree. Falco will be floatier, Wolf will be heavier, and they may have a bit of a different timing on their attacks, but apart from that, the two are hypothetically pretty much the same. Therefore it is most likely that only one will appear. Which one is up to Sakurai.

Wiseguy said:
Bringing a character from Melee to Brawl is harder than copying and pasting. Depending
on how Brawl's engine has been modified, it could very well be easier just to start
from scratch and design a new moveset with Brawl specifically in mind.

I imagine they are basing it of Melee's engine, so it would be easier to port than to make from scratch - but not really as easy as copying and pasting, as the engine will undoubtedly have been tinkered with greatly. So you can probably say bringing a past char would probably take around 1/2, 2/3 at most, the time a new char would take.

Wiseguy said:
Regardless of what the Japanese may or may not want, it is irrefutable that Saumerai Goroh is far more important to the F-Zero series. Not only is he the Faclon's main rival, but he has also appeared in ever game in the series. While the F-Zero series may not be as popular as it should be (it really is an awesome series) I don't think it would be unreasonable to include one original character (Falcon) and one Ganondorf-esque clone(Goroh).

I like F-Zero, but mainly due to the fast-paced races. I couldn't care less about the story, tbh, so I don't really care. If Goroh would make more people happy, then bring him in. If Black Shadow would, then let it be him. It's not like I'm going to use either, one, given I don't like Falcon in the first place

.

Wiseguy said:
That isn't a good idea, in my view. People would just create really broken characters - thus making online not fun at all and causing Mii to be banned from tournaments. Just give Mii a Wii Sports/Wii Play inspired moveset and I'll be happy.

Yeah. If playing GURPS has taught me something, is that absolute freedom leads to absolute brokenness.

Wiseguy said:
I believe the term you're looking for is "wiseguy".

I don't usually use internet slang terms, but I belive this one merits: PWNED!

Wiseguy said:
I dunno. I suspect that hardcore gamers will favor Brawl and Mario Galaxy while casual gamers will favor Wii Music and Wii Fitness. Even if M&S is good, it will most likely be lost somewhere in between.

I feel you might be selling the game a bit short. Sports games, if they're easy to pick up, are almost always a sure bet with casuals, and having Mario in the title can only help with recognition.

Wiseguy said:
Relax. If Nintendo comes calling with a load of cash, asking for Disney to okay Sora's inclusion, they are not going to say "Only if you include Mickey Mouse!"

Though actually, King Mickey in his KH2 getup would be utterly, mindblowingly awesome, so very much more than Sora. Awww... See what you've done? Now you have me all sad because that's a great idea for a character which has absolutely zero chance of appearing in the game

.

Seriously, King Mickey > Sora. Hell, King Mickey > Sephirot, at least he makes sense when he speaks!

KING MICKEY FOR BRAWL!!!

Wiseguy said:
Would it make you feel better if I called it a "Mushroom Kingdom-styled map"? It's the same principle.

As for Tingle, I'm not opposed to his inclusion. However, I don't think we'll get more than one new Zelda character (aside from the big four, who are semi-returning) and Midna is far more worthy.

Well, I am. There are a lot of characters I would have before Tingle, ranging from Skull Kid to Vaati to Old Orca to even the random running guy from ALttP. Anything but Tingle!

Wiseguy said:
Well said Drascin. I completly agree.

Of course you do. I am always right, after all

Wiseguy said:
There are alot of great stage ideas from TP. Hopefully, every playable character will get their ow stage - and Midna's would most certainly be the Twilight Relm. Did you have any specific ideas in mind, or just anywhere from the Relm?

Anywhere would do. Though, if I could have my wish, we'd have the Twilight Palace balcony, with the cascades of dark substance and the rays of light from the spheres of light intermingling in the background before the Twilight Realm's hazy sky, for an scenario with a totally stunning visual factor.

Wiseguy said:
Good point. I'll add something to that effect in tommorow's update. (Remind me if I forget).

Oh, I will. *starts hitting Wiseguy continually in the head with a rubber hammer to make sure he doesn't forget*

Wiseguy said:
To me, Tingle is a character I hate - but he's also a character I love to hate. His bizzare appearance, his stupid sayings, his seemingly unstable personaality and the fact that he enslaves his siblings add up to a character who is at the very least, unique and memorable. Given his importance to the series, I put him just behing Midna.

I simply dislike him, to be honest. I liked Medli, I liked Makore, I loved Tetra's crew - all of them very unique and lovable characters - ...yet I wouldn't really mind if Tingle fell headfirst from his tower and split his skull. Not celebrate. I mean I care so little for him I'd shrug and keep sailing looking for more treasure.

Wiseguy said:
Let's just praythat, if he makes it, he isn't high tier. Otherwise, EVERYONE is going to play as Tingle.

... ... ... ...

*shudders*

You do realize I'm not going to be able to sleep tonight because of the thought of that, right?

Wiseguy said:
I'm siding with Ferro on this one. The Adventures look just makes more sense.

Ditto.

Wiseguy said:
I'd love to see other elements from Adventures in the game. Like I said, it's a great game that deserves to be remembered.

Meh. Not really, IMHO, but hey, to each their own. If you really want to, let's say Krazoa Palace as Krystal's stage and be done with it.

Wiseguy said:
Tingle as the new punching bag would actually be perfect.

Even better, not. Not punching bag, not trophy, not char, not anything. It is as if a Spawn of Chaos has touched him - even his memory deleted from those who knew him.

Yes, that would be the true perfect

.

Wiseguy said:
Thanks, I'm glad you liked them.

But Ridley as a stage? I have to disagree. Ridley would be perefect as a playable character. There are plenty of other choices for a Metroid stage.

Yup. In fact, the mere suggestion of Ridley not being a playable can get you hanged around here, so I'd listen to Wisey, he knows what he's talking about.

Otherwise, ...things... could happen.

Wiseguy said:
Well, your entitled to your opinion, but I'm still excited at the prospect of Ridley as a playable character. Maybe, if and when Ridley is included, he will be implemented in such a way that he will be true to the Ridley you grew up with.

As for the Samus' fusion suit, I would love to see it as an alternate costume.

Yeah, it's not like Samus lacks costumes to put her in. Light Suit, Phazon Suit, Gravity Suit, Fusion Suit, and a veeery long etcetera. Come on Sakurai, give us some of them at least!

Wiseguy said:
Yep, Megaman is still going strong. Nintendo would be wise to include him.

Indeed, we megaman fans are many and vocal. But I'm with Odin here. Zero or X would be much, much cooler than original Mega (I am very biased towards MMZ version, but I'd settle for X saga Zero or original X). I mean, ley's give a bit of a comparison here. Who would you prefer to have as a fighter:

This

or this

Well, despite Zero being totally impossible, I hope at least X is an alternate costume for megaman. Or even better, powerarmor X.

Wiseguy said:
I can appreciate your concerns, but if you think about it, thi is actually the best of both worlds. Not only does Ganondorf get his own moveset, but Faclon get's a new clone in the form of Goroh - who would probably control very similarly to Melee's Ganondorf. As for Zelda, I imagine she would control simlarly -that's not guaranteed.

At any rate, Brawl will have a pretty big roster, so I'm sure everyone will be able to find at least one character who suits them.

Yeah, if your predicitions come true, most Ganon players will go to Goroh. Or who knows, Ganon could actually have somewhat of a good moveset and they'd stay! I know, I know, it's unlikely, but it could happen!

Wiseguy said:
I will also miss Doc. My favorite Melee fighter by far.

Actually, Luigi's moveset is cloned from Mario's. The only difference is that his stats are redically different and many of his attacks have been drastically altered or replaced. Hense the term: Luigified clone.

Hey, don't blame Bowser Jr. It's not his fault today's kids are too stupid to remember more than one Koopling at a time.

Nah. More like, blame the conception adult people have of today's kids. My cousin knows more than half of the kooplings, and he has only played SMB3 once and in english (and he doesn't even know english).

He also likes Bowser junior for being funny and a jester, tho

.

Wiseguy said:
Yeah, I could live with that. Personally, however, I'd rather have Miciaiah accompany Ike and BK since she would be a more unique addtion than yet another sword fighter.

Same here. My preference would go Lyn>Micaiah>Ike>Black Knight>Hector> everyone else. And since Lyndis is not happening, I'd settle for Micaiah ^^. We're awfully low on magic users, and Sakurai seemed to think the roster needed more feminine presence, anyway, and Micaiah fits both bills, plus she'd be a nice advertising of the next game. All in all, if Sakurai had the time for it, Micaiah actually has a very good chance, IMO.

Wiseguy said:
Llyod would be a very awesome character. Keep your fingers crossed that Sakurai feels the same way.

As for Midna/Wolf I don't see it as aproblem. After all, there were two Marios and Two Links in Melee. Besides, you must admit that Wolf Link would provide a pretty unique moveset.

Still prefer Presea by a longshot (petite girl able to tear trees apart with bare hands > stereotypical RPG protagonist), but Lloyd is very nice too.

I'll leave Mendez for later, I'm afraid. This took long enough as is, and I'm already being kicked from the computer ^^u. I'll say smething before going, though: I very much agree with you and Dark about WW Ganondorf. He's infinitely cooler than TP Ganon, by virtue of the logic law that says that skilled two-weapon fighter > all-brawn greatsworder

. I'll much rather have him in Brawl than TP Ganondorf. A pity it's so unlikely.

O D I N · Jun 21, 2007

But I hate Goroh!

Wiseguy · Jun 21, 2007

Once again, I've updated my stage suggestion list and once again I'm too pressed for time to respond to everyone right now. I got as far as Drascin, but now I have to leave. Never fear, I 'll pick up where I left off tonight well I get home from work.

DarkKnight077 said:
I'm not feeling it though. =/ I would rather much another villain..Too many heroes from Zelda. Way too many Heroes. Even though Minda is an anti-hero though. Kind of but not really.

Whether or not a character is a hero or villian doesn't really matter, in my opinion. As long as they are a worthy representative of the series and have the potential for a fun, and unique movset what difference does it make? Not only is Midna the most worthy character after the Big Four, but with by throwing in Wolf Link she would be the most unique character in the game.

Chief Mendez said:
EDIT - Great timing, Wiseguy.

I try.

DarkKnight077 said:
Imp Minda would be great since you could all ready base a moveset on her alone. Wolf Link would just hinder her and then I would be playing TP again. Not saying..it's a bad game it's that Wolf Link/Minda gets a tad boring for me. Imp Minda is good thing seeing that in the end of the game she actually still only cared for herself and the Twilight Kingdom.

Also I liked to note WW Gannondrof for the win. Two swords are better than one.

How would Wolf Link hinder her? I seem to recall that it was he who did most of the fighting when they teamed up in TP. I found controlling Wolf Link to be among my favorite aspects of TP personally. I didn’t find it boring at all.

WW Ganondorf is indeed awesome (perhaps even my favorite incarnation of the character) though he probably won’t get in over TP Ganondorf, sadly.

Chief Mendez said:
While Goldeneye made shooters work on consoles, Halo made console shooters unique. They're both equally innovative in my book.

True enough.

Chief Mendez said:
Best N64 game evar=

Okay…

Chief Mendez said:
I actually couldn't say. My best-remembered 64 games are Smash, Ocarina and SF Rush 2049. It's all a blur, really.

For a long time, it was my only game console, so I remember most of the games I played. Perfect Dark was my favorite, though SSB64 and Majora’s Mask aren’t far behind.

Chief Mendez;2493562Yeah said:
At least, that's right according to Wikipedia. And NP. It's probably true.

Sweat. I wait to be what brilliant creation comes out of Kojima’s twisted mind.

Chief Mendez said:
Zero to none. Believe you me, if you grew up with Metal Gear Solid, you don't want to play Metal Gear or Metal Gear Gaiden/Pocket/Whatever. The only one I've never played is Snake's Revenge, but from what I hear of it, it's not fun. At all.

Too bad. Maybe they could completely overhaul the games (Solid-ify, if you will) and retell the stories as they were meant to be told. Playing Twin Snakes, I kept feeling like I had missed out on giant chucks of story (Grey Fox, Zanzabar land, the death of Big Boss, etc.)

Chief Mendez said:
Heck, forget IGN. Famitsu (take EGM, GameInformer, IGN and Joystiq, mash them together, than make that a weekly Japanese game mag=Famitsu) gave the game a great 39/40, making it equal to ALttP, but worse than Nintendogs...?

I know of Famitsu’s reputation, so that is definitely encouraging. Nintendogs was fine, but a perfect score? I think not.

Chief Mendez said:
Then I guess Mario is Missing and the CD-i Zeldas are real Mario and Zelda games, right?

Technically, it is...but realistically, it's not.

The obvious difference is that those games are non-cannon. The CD-i Zelda games have no place in the Zelda timeline. Adventures, the other hand, has a very important place in the Strfox series because it introduced a new character to the team. Also, it is a great game – unlike those CD-i junk.

Chief Mendez said:
Mickey Mouse would...completely dominate. It may be a pipe dream, but it's an AWESOME one.

Urgh.. please no. Videogame characters only.

Chief Mendez said:
Ah, but there are vertical pits in both Mushroom Kingdoms. So HA!

Fine, you win that one.

Chief Mendez said:
And who are the "big four"? Link, Zelda, Ganon...Young Link?

That’s exactly what I meant.

Chief Mendez said:
And as far as Adventures goes, I have one word, one triple-syllable pile of letters that will silence all of you silly supporters of the game: BAFMODAD.

...Seriously.

Your madeup words won’t change the greatness of Starfox Adventures. The truth can’t be silenced.

Chief Mendez said:
Yeah, the Wolf sections lost their appeal by Lake Hylia. It didn't help that I had just got through Okami twice almost literally the day before I brought home my Wii and TP. If Midna were to be riding wolf-back, then half of her moveset's going to be generic biting/clawing/tail whipping action.
.

I never found the Wolf controls be at all boring. When I gained the ability to switch between the two forms, I would often stay in Wolf form just for the heck of it.

Tell me – how are biting and clawing moves generic when used in combination with Midna’s magical hair and teloportaion abilities.

O D I N said:
Mendez and Wiseguy, thanks for the comments on my post. Glad to see there isn't any flaming here. ^_^ I think I'll hang out for a while.

Mendez; that moveset for Grey Fox was awesome. So awesome, I'd consider dropping Ganondorf for him. Although, I'd make his D-air a little more like Ganondorf's... or Falcon's... either or, and I'd be happy with it. Though the moveset you gave was fantastic.

You and your killer awesome avatar are always welcome here, Odin.

Also I agree: fantastic Grey Fox moveset, Mendez. Expect to see this character in one of my future updates.

O D I N · Jun 21, 2007

Sweet...

YosterDragon · Jun 21, 2007

Chief Mendez said:
Oh, they've made way more than two.

http://www.wayforward.com//index.php?option=com_content&task=blogsection&id=4&Itemid=96

...Although once you follow that link, you'll know why you've only heard of those two.

Yikes, forgot about all the licsenced garbage they've pushed out :dizzy:

I guess I'm more a fan of Matt Bozon, the fella that was the driving force behind Shantae and SSS.

Chief Mendez said:
More than likely, the next Golden Sun will be on a console (like the Wii). Camelot's said in the past that that's where they want the series to end up, and they want to do it with Nintendo.

Here's hoping. The Golden Sun games were great fun...I loved mixing up the Djinni to see what crazy magic could be learned.

Chief Mendez said:
Heck yes! Though doubtful...if we get two Konami characters, I'd hope for Simon. Grey Fox is still cool though.

Seconded. I while Grey Fox is cool, I almost drool at the prospect of a Simon Belmont moveset. Mmm, whips. Err...moving on!

Chief Mendez said:
I did like Fusion though. Hardest metroid game ever. AND WHERE'S MY METROID DREAD!?

There was a Metroid...he was just very big. And angry.

O D I N said:
I also hate tingle...

You're OK in my book already :chuckle:

O D I N said:
Metroid: I'm a HUGE metroid fan. I love the series (didn't really dig MP:H), but I just can't get around Ridley being a character... Maybe it's because I've grown up with the vision in my head (and in the game) that Ridley is 4x's my size (when compared to Samus). That's just me. I wouldn't be opposed to Ridley being in Brawl... But that's just my two cents on that. Dark Samus I'm okay with. I actually really like that idea. I also want the Fusion suit involved, even if it's just a cosmetic thing. I loved Fusion. Fusion was a great game, and it saddens me that Nintendo hasn't gone back to side-scrolling Metroid. T_T

If you're having trouble wrapping your head around Ridley's size, just think back to the original Metroid...heck, he was hardly taller than Samus. Granted, Super Metroid and beyond look is much better :laugh:

O D I N said:
Square-Enix: I hate the idea of Sora being in Brawl... I really do. I never liked Sora, and I don't see what's so great about him. I am however, 115% supportive of Geno for Brawl. Geno needs to make a comeback, and it's a shame that Geno is tied up by Square's hands when S-E isn't even using that character.

One more plus in my book. I completely agree, while Sora does have some legitimate arguments towards his unlikely inclusion, I really, really don't like the idea. Geno FTW!

O D I N said:
Mendez and Wiseguy, thanks for the comments on my post. Glad to see there isn't any flaming here. ^_^ I think I'll hang out for a while.

Good call; that's something the lot of us have all come to realize. Lack of flaming + good grammar = worthwhile thread.

Drascin said:
I think what Mendez meant by "wasn't intended" is exactly that: it may now be a Starfox game, but it wasn't intended to be, as it wasn't really conceived as one. It was to be called Dinosaur Planet, and would star two very young anthro cats as its protagonists.

Man, the old concept art from Dinosaur Planet was great. The game really looked like it was going to be a cool new IP for Rare, but then Mr. Miyamoto made one of the few mistakes (IMHO) he's ever made. "Hey, you know what would be great with this mystical prehistoric world? Foxes. Space foxes." Sigh.

Drascin said:
Though actually, King Mickey in his KH2 getup would be utterly, mindblowingly awesome, so very much more than Sora. Awww... See what you've done? Now you have me all sad because that's a great idea for a character which has absolutely zero chance of appearing in the game .

Seriously, King Mickey > Sora. Hell, King Mickey > Sephirot, at least he makes sense when he speaks!

KING MICKEY FOR BRAWL!!!

You know, before KH2 I think nobody in their right mind would equate Mickey Mouse as an butt kicking badass. Now? Well, let's just say that Disneyland will never be the same in my mind again

Drascin said:
Yeah, it's not like Samus lacks costumes to put her in. Light Suit, Phazon Suit, Gravity Suit, Fusion Suit, and a veeery long etcetera. Come on Sakurai, give us some of them at least!

/Signed. Samus has seen so many suit variations, they'd be great as alternate costumes. And most other characters do too. Here's hoping we lose the recolors and gain real alternate costumes in Brawl.

Drascin said:
Indeed, we megaman fans are many and vocal. But I'm with Odin here. Zero or X would be much, much cooler than original Mega (I am very biased towards MMZ version, but I'd settle for X saga Zero or original X). I mean, ley's give a bit of a comparison here. Who would you prefer to have as a fighter:

This

or this

Well, despite Zero being totally impossible, I hope at least X is an alternate costume for megaman. Or even better, powerarmor X.

I've been a Megaman fanboy as long as I can remember, but I must disagree...I'd like to see classic Megaman in Brawl over any other iteration. He's the definitive Megaman IMHO. Not that Zero isn't a badass. Nor is he impossible. I'm pretty sure Keiji Inafune created Zero to replace Megaman once the X series was created (therefore he likes him), and he originated and has his own series on Nintendo systems. So don't count him out yet

Drascin said:
Nah. More like, blame the conception adult people have of today's kids. My cousin knows more than half of the kooplings, and he has only played SMB3 once and in english (and he doesn't even know english).

He also likes Bowser junior for being funny and a jester, tho .

Bah, I still like the original Koopalings better. At least they had some individual style, and weren't pretty much a mini Bowser. Granted, Jr. does have a bit more attachment to his dear old dad given the recent Mario games. I guess that helps.

Ferro De Lupe · Jun 21, 2007

Wiseguy said:
While it isn't quite on par with your awesome Midna/Wolf moveset, I wouldn't call this
one poor. Pretty much all your ideas are the logical choices for Krystal's staff
moveset, particularily the B-attacks.

A little TLC is all it really needs.

Wiseguy said:
I'm sad to see the thread go, but at least it had a great run.

Perhaps with the next Smash installment, I can revive it.

DarkKnight077 said:
@Ferro:..Can't just we have Imp Minda by herself then?...Without Wolf Link? Seriously Imp Minda has a Final Smash right there. The giant spider thingy with the Fused Shadow.

Personally, I'll be happy as long as she appears with an original moveset (die Mewtwo/Zelda clone idealists!) I just think that the best way for Midna to be represented is riding Wolf Link.

Drascin · Jun 21, 2007

YosterDragon said:
Man, the old concept art from Dinosaur Planet was great. The game really looked like it was going to be a cool new IP for Rare, but then Mr. Miyamoto made one of the few mistakes (IMHO) he's ever made. "Hey, you know what would be great with this mystical prehistoric world? Foxes. Space foxes." Sigh.

I think the thing was more like, "you know, that Sabre guy looks a lot like Fox. You think you could make it into an starfox game? It'd help sales and would be free advertising"

Sadly, this was a mistake. Being a Starfox created some expectations that, like you said, simply didn't fit in the concept of the game. Space mercenaries and starships don't mix well with prehistoric societies.

YosterDragon said:
You know, before KH2 I think nobody in their right mind would equate Mickey Mouse as an butt kicking badass. Now? Well, let's just say that Disneyland will never be the same in my mind again

Yeah

. When I saw KH2's first trailer, my only thought, avobe all the antagonists and all that, was "...Mickey is the most freaking hardcore mouse EVER". Seriously, when you saw the cinematic of the little childhood icon going all Kenshin Himura with his keyblade, sweeping heartless like that, you couldn't help but be impressed.

So I'll say it again: KING MICKEY FOR BRAWL!

YosterDragon said:
/Signed. Samus has seen so many suit variations, they'd be great as alternate costumes. And most other characters do too. Here's hoping we lose the recolors and gain real alternate costumes in Brawl.

Same hope here. I'd favor Fusion and Light, and the third spot I don't really care. It's not like I'd ever use her in anything other than Light suit anyway

.

YosterDragon said:
I've been a Megaman fanboy as long as I can remember, but I must disagree...I'd like to see classic Megaman in Brawl over any other iteration. He's the definitive Megaman IMHO. Not that Zero isn't a badass. Nor is he impossible. I'm pretty sure Keiji Inafune created Zero to replace Megaman once the X series was created (therefore he likes him), and he originated and has his own series on Nintendo systems. So don't count him out yet

Oh, another fan. Welcome ^^. Yeah, I know, the one who deserves to be there is the original. It still doesn't change I liked the later sagas a lot more. MMZ actually had some good story and secondary characters, even! (Ciel, Harpuia, Phantom... the list goes on). Megaman had... well Bass and Protoman, and that's it. Bass is indeed extremely cool, though

.

And yes, Zero is totally impossible, as much as it pains me. We have 2 more 3rd party spots, tops, and as a Capcom representative there's no way he's getting in before the original Rockman, despite Rock being nothing but a little household robot that could xDD.

Zero was designed to replace Mega? Really? That makes me happy, yet makes me pose a little question. If he's supposed to be a substitute, why the hell do they keep forcing the plot to kill him?! How many times have they had to rebuild Zero already? (gotta give it to Wily, though: he created a mighty resistant Reploid there xD)

YosterDragon said:
Bah, I still like the original Koopalings better. At least they had some individual style, and weren't pretty much a mini Bowser. Granted, Jr. does have a bit more attachment to his dear old dad given the recent Mario games. I guess that helps.

My query with the original koopalings was, and still is after all these years, who the blazes was their mother? Right now, I'm willing to accept any explanation

.

O D I N · Jun 21, 2007

Mendez: I've been thinking about your moveset for Grey Fox... The taunt isn't working for me... Why not make it, "Hurt me MORE..."... ? That'd have to be relativly as annoying as Capt. Falcon's taunt, and just as menacing(?) as Grey Fox truly is.

My apologies for not addressing everything right now, I'm now in class. >_> More discussion later though.

Ferro De Lupe · Jun 21, 2007

In response to DarkKnight's comment about Wolf Link hindering Midna's performance:

Ferro De Lupe said:
Warning: Spoilers for Twilight Princess. Don't read if you don't want them. This is your only warning.

Midna
(It is a Wolf Link/Midna team, but they will be referred to as Midna by the announcer.)

Stats:

Attack: ***
Average

Attack Speed: ****
Wolves (like foxes) are naturally agile and quick.

Reach: *****
Because of Midna’s hair-extensions (no joke intended), she will have good reach.

Jump: ***
Both of Wolf Link’s jumps combined would equal one of Fox’s second jump (because wolves are not built to jump.) However, Midna brings this up with her teleport abilities. All-in-all, it would be average.

Gravity: ***
Average

Height: ** (and a half.)
Wolf Link is about as tall as Ness, but add in Midna and he’s taller.

Weight: **
Because Midna is so small and light, Wolf Link has all of the weight here.

Wall-Jump: No

Playing Style: You would control Wolf Link for about half of the “A” attacks, all the movement (walking, running, etc.), the first two jumps, and very few air and “B” attacks. Midna would handle some “A” attacks, all/most of the “B” attacks, all/most of the aerial attacks, control the “third jump”, and control the “Super“ attack. Midna uses all handheld and equip items, while Wolf Link uses all throwing items.

Fighter Stance: Wolf Link would stand on all fours (duh) in a “ready to fight”-like pose. While Midna would hold onto Wolf Link with both hands and lower her head. Stand still for a little bit and Midna will look around.

Movement Speed: One notch lower than Fox.

Taunt: Wolf Link sits and looks back at Midna while she yawns in classic Twilight Princess style.

Victory Music: The music from Twilight Princess anytime you defeated a boss/learned a hidden skill.

Victory Poses:
1) Wolf Link jumps around in circles trying to get Midna off of his back (like when she first mounted him.) The picture freezes with Wolf Link’s front paws on the ground, back paws in the air, and Midna hanging on for dear life.
2) Wolf Link howls and then spins (like in TP.)
3) A Moblin is seen on the screen. Suddenly, Wolf Link comes from the side and (easily) vanquishes the Moblin. As the Moblin “poofs”, Wolf Link and Midna turn to face you.
(Open to suggestions)

Icon (face): Triforce (Midna)

Levels:

Stage: Kakariko Village - Unlocked once Midna becomes playable. This level is very similar to Onett. There is no falling on this level. KO is only possible on the left, right, and up. Start with the shrine on one side, put Barnes’ Bomb shop on the other, and add every building against the western cliff side between the two.
You fight on the roofs of the buildings with two gaps. The first gap in between the shrine and the first house, while the second gap is between Barnes’ shop and the last house. These gaps will let you fight on the ground between them. You can also fight on the other side of Barnes’ shop and the shire, but it’s dangerously close to the level edge.
Level Hazard: Every now and then, a Goron will roll by and harm anyone caught in the path (down in the gaps.)

Adventure Mode Level: Twilight Palace - You start at the bottom of the palace and have to fight several Twilight-themed monsters while making it to the top. You can not advance to the next floor of the level until all the monsters in the area are defeated. After about 5-6 floors, you arrive at the top for a 300 stamina battle against Zant. Note: Zant does NOT become playable if defeated. Also, Zant’s life decreases to 150 on Easy, 75 on Very Easy, and increases to 450 on Hard, 600 on Very Hard.

How to Unlock: Defeat Zant in Very Hard difficulty Adventure mode with Link.

Items:
Gale Boomerang - Throwing item. Once thrown, the boomerang releases a small tornado around it. If the boomerang hits anyone, they are engulfed in the tornado, spun around, and thrown into the air [think Hyrule Castle from SSB] (the boomerang then returns to the thrower.) If it doesn’t hit anyone, the boomerang returns. The boomerang can be thrown three times. Can also be used to grab items from a distance and put them at your feet. Unlike Link’s boomerang, it will not return if you don’t catch it.

Oocca - Throwing item. Basically, they are the new Mr. Saturn item.

Shadow Stone - Equip item. Gives the user wolf-like characteristics (tails, ears, fur, etc.) and temporarily increases attack speed (gives them wolf-like agility.) Works in the same way that the Bunnyhood, Super Mushroom, and Metal Box do.
(In retrospect, this item would be tricky to see on Wolf, Krystal, or Fox.)

Alternate Colors:

Inverted - Midna’s white areas become black, and her grey areas become white. Her hair also becomes blue. Wolf Link also becomes white.
Tupic Green - Wolf Link become the same green as his tunic. Midna stays normal.
(Open to suggestions) (Needing someone willing to make images)

Kirby Hat: Kirby equips Midna’s hat and hair, while the remaining exposed area becomes covered in fur. This symbolizes the Midna/Wolf Link team.

Moveset:
Because of Midna’s great reach, all of her hair-hand attacks have extended hit-boxes (like a sword.)

NOTE: * = Taken/Modified from Twilight Princess.

A: Chomps forward once.* No knock back. 2%

A twice: Second chomp.* No knock back. 3%

A three: Quickly turns and tail swipes.* Low knock back. 5%

Dash A: Midna’s places her hair-hand in front of Wolf Link and makes a fist; acting as a battering ram. Decent knock back. 6-7%

Forward Tilt: Wolf Link swipes with his claws. Low knock back. 5-8%

Up Tilt: Wolf Link swipes upward with his claws. No knock back. 6-7%

Down Tilt: Wolf Link tilts his head to a diagonal angle and aims for the ankles (or hands if they’re hanging from the edge) with his teeth/fangs. Low knock back, good for edge-guarding. 6-7%

Forward Smash: Wolf Link leans back and puts all of his weight and strength into his back legs. When released, Wolf Link pounces forward ready to bite anything in his path. Decent knock back. 10-14%

Down Smash: Wolf Link quickly spins around with claws, teeth, and fangs attacking anything in the way.* Decent knock back. 10-12%

Up Smash: Midna moves her hand in an arc above her. As her hand makes the arc, a trail of Twili magic is left behind in the form of an offensive barrier. The barrier does not protect against projectiles, but will harm anyone it comes into contact with. It fades about a second after it’s made. No knock back, stuns opponent and opens for attacking. 10-12%

Aerial A: Wolf Link spins around using his tail as a weapon. Minor knock back. 3-5%

Aerial Forward A: Wolf Link rolls forward while Midna’s hair-hand slaps in a downward arc-path (think DK‘s F-air with Midna‘s hair-hand acting as his fist and Wolf Link acting as his body.) This is a spike. Great (downward) knock back. 10%

Aerial Back A: Midna’s hair-hand swings around and hits behind her. Decent knock back. 6-9%

Aerial Down A: Wolf Link rolls forward slightly and chomps underneath of himself. No knock back. 5-7%

Aerial Up A: Midna swipes both her hands across each other above her head and shoots a small sphere straight up. Little knock back.* 5-7%

Forward Throw: Midna grabs the target with her hair-hand, rears back, and then smashes the target into the ground in front of Wolf Link. Low knock back. 7-10%

Back Throw: Midna grabs the target with her hair-hand, smashes them against the ground behind her, then smashes them against the ground in front of Wolf Link, and then finally throws them behind her. Decent (backwards) knock back. 4%, then 4%, then 2%

Up Throw: Midna grabs the target with her hair-hand, and throws them backwards… catapult style. Good knock back. 2%

Down Throw: Midna grabs the target with her hair-hand and smashes them against the ground. Then Wolf Link attacks using his “finish the poe” maneuver.* No knock back. 13%

B: Dark Energy - A 360 degree sphere of Midna‘s magic surrounds Wolf Link. It is a chargeable attack, but cannot be saved. You will also have restricted movement while charging. While it is charging, any enemies that enter the sphere become highlighted to show that they are targeted. Once “B“ is released (or the attack has been held too long) Wolf Link will perform a near-impossible to dodge chain of quick attacks. The only real way to avoid being hit is to get out of Wolf Link‘s jump range. All highlighted targets will be auto-targeted and attacked (unless they avoid it) with increasing damage per target (I.e. target one takes the least damage while target three takes the most.) If there are no targets highlighted, then Wolf Link does his “Down Smash” with increased lag. In the air (and if used correctly,) this attack can become a nice recovery, but it’s very risky because Wolf Link is stunned until he hit’s the ground if no targets are highlighted. Great knock back regardless of damage, best used in close-quarter combat.* 5%, then 10%, then 15%

Up B: Twili Teleport - This is the only move that keeps Wolf Link’s jumping stat from getting a one star. It works identical to Zelda’s, with some slight modifications. Midna turns herself and Wolf Link into the “twilight squares” and teleports in the direction selected. The big difference between the two is the damage. Zelda‘s causes damage while she is casting the spell. Midna‘s would cause damage after the spell is cast and she is moving. Minor damage is given for each “square” that the target is hit with. No knock back.* 1% per square

Down B: Hair Fist - Midna turns her hair into a giant fist. Then both she and Wolf Link rear back to get some extra momentum. They both then come forward and she pounds the ground in front of her. Getting hit with the fist before it hit’s the ground causes some decent knock back and damage. Getting hit with the fist into the ground causes you to take the full damage, but has no knock back (because you’re being flattened into the ground.) The pounding also creates a small shockwave. The closer you are to the center of the shockwave (without being under the fist) the more damage and knock back you take. Of all of their attacks, this one has the worst lag. Very dangerous attack at upper percentages (60+.) Should only be used when you can guarantee a hit. 20%

Forward B: Hair Spear - Remember how Midna…dispatched of Zant? Pretty much all I need to do to sum it up. She launches a spear made out of her hair at the target causing a nice bit of damage. Good knock back.* 10-15%

Super Smash: Fused Shadow Creature - Midna equips the Fused Shadows and uses the giant spear to “impale” one target for massive damage.* 75%

I think that this is sufficient proof that he wouldn't be a hinderance.

@Wise: The moveset's location varies depending on the website layout. I suggest changing the "on page 33" to the post #.

Copperpot · Jun 21, 2007

YosterDragon said:
I've been a Megaman fanboy as long as I can remember, but I must disagree...I'd like to see classic Megaman in Brawl over any other iteration. He's the definitive Megaman IMHO. Not that Zero isn't a badass. Nor is he impossible. I'm pretty sure Keiji Inafune created Zero to replace Megaman once the X series was created (therefore he likes him), and he originated and has his own series on Nintendo systems. So don't count him out yet

It's kind of funny how many sides of the fence there are. I'm a die-hard Megaman fan (since it's first installment, when he was drawn on the box art holding a gun, lol), and I'd rather he not even be included in the game. I can't really pinpoint the reason why, but I just don't want to see him make it. It's almost as if he's already had his run in the fighting genre (Marvel vs. Capcom and it's sequel), and it's time to pass the torch to another rep who hasn't gotten their shot yet.

I can same the same thing for the newest incarnation of Zero (MMXZ). He was an unlockable in the reverse sequel (?) to Capcom vs. SNK, dubbed SNK vs. Capcom. They did an incredible job with him in that game, too. Between the two, though, I guess I'd be a bit more forgiving with Zero, because the fighting game he was included in never really made it to main-stream (mostly a trophy for NEO GEO enthusiasts).

TDub301 · Jun 21, 2007

"I'm with Wisey here. I don't know why, but PD trapped me a lot more than Halo did. I actually bothered completing the challenges in PD, but I didn't even complete my first playthrough through Halo!

Also, loved the weapon design in the game. The Slayer was the MGS Nikita on steroids (pilotable missiles are ALWAYS a plus), the Maian guns were just cool (Callisto, Phoenix, Farsight), and double-intent kits like the RPG120 (I think that was the model... it's been what, seven years since I last played? Anyway, the one which was a sub-machine gun and cloaking device all in one) were aplenty."

Yes, Perfect Dark was a way better game than Halo 2, comparatively speaking. Obviously the graphics of Halo 2 are better and it's newer and has better coding, but Perfect Dark blows Halo 2 out of the water. Anybody who disagrees isn't a fps player, just a Halo player (there are plenty of people who just play Halo and think it's God's gift to fpses when it isn't even close). Don't get me wrong, Halo 2 is fun, but it has nowhere near the depth that PD had, with all the different weapons (which each had 2 different functions) and such. And you could have bots, too, so multiplayer with up to like 16 people was possible before consoles went online. My god, I could go on all day about how PD destroys Halo 2.

But back on topic, I also think that Megaman X should be in before the original Megaman and I'd also rather have Zero anyway. I thought they made a mistake in Marvel vs. Capcom 2 by putting the stupid megaman rpg characters in, instead of the X characters. I hope if he is in Brawl, they don't make a similar mistake.

Also, Ryu Hayabusa is an excellect choice for Brawl as well, and also Simon Belmont, too. Too many great characters could be in this game, it's mind-boggling.

Some of these posts are crazy long

Copperpot · Jun 21, 2007

Personally, I think Ryu Hayabusa's chances of getting into Brawl are slim to none. Sure, Snake made it, but you have to consider that Ryu is already a representative of another fighting game series on another console (Dead or Alive). Why would they give one of their roster's favorites (or at least most recognizable) away to a fighting game that is only going to draw away their customer base? The answer: they probably won't.

Simon has a better chance than Ryu ever will.

DJ Napps · Jun 21, 2007

I am "amazed and astounded" by Wiseguy's list, alot of good possibilities.
...
Yet the list is still missing a very possible, popular character: Bomberman. I'm surprised you overlooked him.

Moving on, i read your update and here are my predictions...(40 total)

1) Mario (Dr. Mario costume)
2) Luigi
3) Bowser
4) Peach
5) Yoshi
6) Donkey Kong
7) Fox
8) Ness
9) Poo
10) Kirby
11) Samus/Zero Suit Samus
12) Zelda (no Sheik)
13) Link
14) Wind Waker Link
15) Pikachu
16) Jiggly Puff
17) Lucario/Deoxys{spelling?} (i dont know which will make it, my money is on Lucario)
18) Mr. Game and Watch
19) Marth
20) Wario
21) Metaknight
22) Pit
23) Snake
24) Krystal
25) King Boo
26) Bowser Jr.
27) Mii (diff. Miis from your Wii as costumes)
28) Capt. Olimar
29) Diddy & Dixie Kong (as IC duo)
30) Geno (I’m not counting him as third-party, even tho he technically is)
31) Gandorf
32) C. Falcon
33) Minda & Wolf Link
34) Ballon Fighter
35) King Dedede
36) Ike
37) King K. Rool

38) Bomberman !!!!
39) Sonic (Shadow costume, Tails shows up to help occasionally)
40) Megaman/ Pacman (<--no, not as a duo. I'm not sure which will make it. Megaman has the popularity but Pacman has the love and suport from Sakurai, not to mention Pacman has starred in a Mario game. However, Pacman's moveset will be a challenge.)

Thats it. By your standards its 38 and 2/3 (Poo and WW Link are clones). Questions?

Kunitsuna · Jun 21, 2007

I guess I´ll take the challenge too. In my opinion Bomberman really isn´t any sort of shoe-in, though, and could very easily not make it into the game.

Super Mario Bros.
01. Mario
02. Luigi
03. Peach
04. Bowser
05. Bowser Jr.
06. Toad

Yoshi´s Island
07. Yoshi

Donkey Kong
08. Donkey Kong
09. Diddy Kong

WarioWare
10. Wario

Kid Icarus
11. Pit

The Legend of Zelda
12. Link
13. Zelda
14. Ganondorf
15. Midna

Kirby
16. Kirby
17. Metaknight
18. King Dedede

Pikmin
19. Captain Olimar

Pokémon
20. Pikachu
21. Jigglypuff
22. Meowth
23. Deoxys

Metroid
24. Samus
25. Zero-Suit Samus
26. Ridley

Star Fox
27. Fox
28. Falco
29. Krystal

F-Zero
30. Captain Falcon

Earthbound / MOTHER
31. Lucas
32. Masked Boy

Fire Emblem
33. Ike
34. Sigurd

Balloon Fighter
35. Alice

Punch-Out!!
36. Little Mac

Ice Climbers
37. Ice Climbers

Metal Gear
38. Snake

Sonic
39. Sonic the Hedgehog

Joy Mecha Fight
40. Sukapon

Drascin · Jun 21, 2007

Copperpot said:
It's kind of funny how many sides of the fence there are. I'm a die-hard Megaman fan (since it's first installment, when he was drawn on the box art holding a gun, lol), and I'd rather he not even be included in the game. I can't really pinpoint the reason why, but I just don't want to see him make it. It's almost as if he's already had his run in the fighting genre (Marvel vs. Capcom and it's sequel), and it's time to pass the torch to another rep who hasn't gotten their shot yet.

I can same the same thing for the newest incarnation of Zero (MMXZ). He was an unlockable in the reverse sequel (?) to Capcom vs. SNK, dubbed SNK vs. Capcom. They did an incredible job with him in that game, too. Between the two, though, I guess I'd be a bit more forgiving with Zero, because the fighting game he was included in never really made it to main-stream (mostly a trophy for NEO GEO enthusiasts).

Yes, this is not a fence, it's an icosahedron, with all these sides xDD. I really do want some Megaman representative in the game, myself, and feel Arcadia Saga Zero would be the best, after starring in a saga of four GBA-exclusive bestseller titles, but I think Rockman is the one most likely to be there.

About the fighting game thing... I need more info on this please. By the "newer version" you mean the one from the Neo Arcadia Saga, I presume? Because you kinda threw me out of balance with the MMXZ thing - could be a misspelling of MMZX, the newest games, too, or something else entirely. The Neo Arcadia saga where replica Zero stars is called just MMZ, as far as I'm aware.

Anyway, if you could elaborate a bit... because if you really mean replica Zero I absolutely need to find that game somehow. Neo-Geo, you say? I think I had an emulator for that somewhere...

Devastlian · Jun 21, 2007

YosterDragon said:
There was a Metroid...he was just very big. And angry.

I believe Cheif Mendez is referring to the game Metroid Dread, IE Metroid 5, that is supposed to be in development (and delayed a couple times) for the DS by Intelligent Systems. Here's some more info. It's definately towards the top of my E3 list alongside SSBB, SMG, MP3, and the third game from Team ICO which will be the deciding factor in my wanting to purchace a PS3.

Anyway, I just hope Metroid Dread's better than Intelligent Systems' last game. :/ :\

O D I N · Jun 21, 2007

I'm a little surprised (in recent pages anyway) that no one has mentioned Advance Wars. While Battalion Wars was more recent (and announced for the Wii), I feel Advance Wars is certainly more popular.

bluebomber22 · Jun 21, 2007

Copperpot said:
It's kind of funny how many sides of the fence there are. I'm a die-hard Megaman fan (since it's first installment, when he was drawn on the box art holding a gun, lol), and I'd rather he not even be included in the game. I can't really pinpoint the reason why, but I just don't want to see him make it. It's almost as if he's already had his run in the fighting genre (Marvel vs. Capcom and it's sequel), and it's time to pass the torch to another rep who hasn't gotten their shot yet.

I can same the same thing for the newest incarnation of Zero (MMXZ). He was an unlockable in the reverse sequel (?) to Capcom vs. SNK, dubbed SNK vs. Capcom. They did an incredible job with him in that game, too. Between the two, though, I guess I'd be a bit more forgiving with Zero, because the fighting game he was included in never really made it to main-stream (mostly a trophy for NEO GEO enthusiasts).

Did someone say MEG MAN???

i knew i liked this thread.

@Copperpot- c'mon man a mm fan like yourself should be jumping at this opportunity to have mm reincarnated in brawl. Even as popular as he is, there are many people who don't know who he is (the younger generations) and we need to spread mm love. Don't you wanna see what he would look like in updated graphics (classic)? I'm actually hoping it will motivate Capcom into making MM9 finally. JOIN US!!

As far as which mm should get in, i'd be satisfied with either classic or X. But we all know that classic has the best shot for reasons already stated by other members.

in closing this is not classic mm

Drascin said:

i think its really bad fan art, or just really really old mm art

this is an updated pic

YosterDragon · Jun 21, 2007

Drascin said:
I think the thing was more like, "you know, that Sabre guy looks a lot like Fox. You think you could make it into an starfox game? It'd help sales and would be free advertising"

Sadly, this was a mistake. Being a Starfox created some expectations that, like you said, simply didn't fit in the concept of the game. Space mercenaries and starships don't mix well with prehistoric societies.

Glad you agree. And props to you for remembering Sabre's name

Drascin said:
Oh, another fan. Welcome ^^. Yeah, I know, the one who deserves to be there is the original. It still doesn't change I liked the later sagas a lot more. MMZ actually had some good story and secondary characters, even! (Ciel, Harpuia, Phantom... the list goes on). Megaman had... well Bass and Protoman, and that's it. Bass is indeed extremely cool, though .

I really did like Bass, though Protoman will always be my favorite. And you're right, the later sagas sure did have more story. What I've always wanted to see is an official canonical explanation as to what happened between the original series and the X series.

Drascin said:
And yes, Zero is totally impossible, as much as it pains me. We have 2 more 3rd party spots, tops, and as a Capcom representative there's no way he's getting in before the original Rockman, despite Rock being nothing but a little household robot that could xDD.

Hmm...I need to buy a Roomba and turn it into a robot that fights for justice!

Drascin said:
Zero was designed to replace Mega? Really? That makes me happy, yet makes me pose a little question. If he's supposed to be a substitute, why the hell do they keep forcing the plot to kill him?! How many times have they had to rebuild Zero already? (gotta give it to Wily, though: he created a mighty resistant Reploid there xD)

Yep. I recall reading an interview (Nintendo Power maybe? Not sure...) where Inafune said that he wanted a completely new title character for the X series, but he was afraid that his new Megaman looked so different from the old one that it'd scare away longtime fans. So X was created and his new Megaman was renamed Zero and became X's bestest buddy. And yeah, it only took Wily how many tries? The law of averages was on his side, I suppose

Drascin said:
My query with the original koopalings was, and still is after all these years, who the blazes was their mother? Right now, I'm willing to accept any explanation .

That same question applies to Bowser Jr. too, you know. And as for the explanation? Straight from wikipedia's King Bowser page:

"It was once revealed in Nintendo Power of the UK that Bowser's wife and the mother of the Koopalings is Clawdia, Queen of the Koopas. Clawdia has not made an appearance in any Mario games to date."

Honestly? That's kinda scary :dizzy:

Copperpot said:
It's kind of funny how many sides of the fence there are. I'm a die-hard Megaman fan (since it's first installment, when he was drawn on the box art holding a gun, lol), and I'd rather he not even be included in the game. I can't really pinpoint the reason why, but I just don't want to see him make it. It's almost as if he's already had his run in the fighting genre (Marvel vs. Capcom and it's sequel), and it's time to pass the torch to another rep who hasn't gotten their shot yet.

I can same the same thing for the newest incarnation of Zero (MMXZ). He was an unlockable in the reverse sequel (?) to Capcom vs. SNK, dubbed SNK vs. Capcom. They did an incredible job with him in that game, too. Between the two, though, I guess I'd be a bit more forgiving with Zero, because the fighting game he was included in never really made it to main-stream (mostly a trophy for NEO GEO enthusiasts).

Yeah, I hope that if the original Megaman is in, he gets an original moveset. Not that his MvC one was bad, but it'd kinda make me sad to see it lifted from another fighting game.

Drascin said:
Yes, this is not a fence, it's an icosahedron, with all these sides xDD. I really do want some Megaman representative in the game, myself, and feel Arcadia Saga Zero would be the best, after starring in a saga of four GBA-exclusive bestseller titles, but I think Rockman is the one most likely to be there.

About the fighting game thing... I need more info on this please. By the "newer version" you mean the one from the Neo Arcadia Saga, I presume? Because you kinda threw me out of balance with the MMXZ thing - could be a misspelling of MMZX, the newest games, too, or something else entirely. The Neo Arcadia saga where replica Zero stars is called just MMZ, as far as I'm aware.

Anyway, if you could elaborate a bit... because if you really mean replica Zero I absolutely need to find that game somehow. Neo-Geo, you say? I think I had an emulator for that somewhere...

Always wanted to try that game, but I never got to play on a cabinet. Anyway, yes, it is replica Zero from the Megaman Zero line of games that is in SNK vs Capcom. Not X series Zero nor ZX (Vent/Aile) Zero. So happy hunting!

Devastlian said:
I believe Cheif Mendez is referring to the game Metroid Dread, IE Metroid 5, that is supposed to be in development (and delayed a couple times) for the DS by Intelligent Systems. Here's some more info. It's definately towards the top of my E3 list alongside SSBB, SMG, MP3, and the third game from Team ICO which will be the deciding factor in my wanting to purchace a PS3.

Anyway, I just hope Metroid Dread's better than Intelligent Systems' last game. :/ :\

Huh, that one slipped completely under my radar. Glad to hear that there's at least rumors that a new 2D Metroid is in development; Fusion had a great story that I really want to see continued.

Copperpot · Jun 21, 2007

Drascin said:
Yes, this is not a fence, it's an icosahedron, with all these sides xDD. I really do want some Megaman representative in the game, myself, and feel Arcadia Saga Zero would be the best, after starring in a saga of four GBA-exclusive bestseller titles, but I think Rockman is the one most likely to be there.

About the fighting game thing... I need more info on this please. By the "newer version" you mean the one from the Neo Arcadia Saga, I presume? Because you kinda threw me out of balance with the MMXZ thing - could be a misspelling of MMZX, the newest games, too, or something else entirely. The Neo Arcadia saga where replica Zero stars is called just MMZ, as far as I'm aware.

Anyway, if you could elaborate a bit... because if you really mean replica Zero I absolutely need to find that game somehow. Neo-Geo, you say? I think I had an emulator for that somewhere...

Yeah, the whole MMXZ thing was my mistake. I meant MMZ (Megaman Zero - I thought it was Megaman X Zero), from the Neo Arcadia Saga. Yes, he is a playable character in SNK vs. Capcom for the NEO GEO, and yes, he is awesome in it. You're going to have one heck of a time pulling off the code to unlock him, though.

Johnknight1 · Jun 21, 2007

Wiseguy said:
Kill the fatted calf! Johnknight1 has returned! Welcome back JK1.

Ya after wakeboarding, tubing, getting food poisoned, and owning my friend at Melee (=oya 4 stock=he thought he'd beat me and the closest he came I 3 stocked him=ya!). Also I've been offering souls to the devil so that Wind Waker Link will be in Brawl=just to be sure! :laugh:

Wiseguy said:
I hate to burst your bubble, but to my knowlege Zamus is still a transformation. Zamus' original profile (before the Dojo update) said "This is not a pure character addition, but rather Samus will remove her suit under certain conditions." I expect we'll hear the specifics in a new update this week.

I'm not worried about it, I'm 99% positive they'll be diffrent characters. I doubt we'll learn this week, but I think we could learn next week at earliest, E3 (which is at late July) at latest. Again, Samus loses her power suit and is in her ZSS form in Metroid: Zero Mission, in which she loses it (not going to say spoilers). We call tha "certain conditions"=hopefully=2 characters in 1 is cheap (the main reason I don't like Shiek and Zelda).

Wiseguy said:
I was both shocked and delighted to see all four controller types used. The wii-mote/nunchuck will be great for casual gamers and unskilled players, the wii-mote solo is a fine alternative for cash-strapped gamers who are short one one or two controllers, and hardcore gamers can rest easy knowing that they can play with either the Classic or GC controllers

You know what was wierd, is after playing Super Paper Mario I thought of playing Brawl with the Wiimote sideways, and I was pretty much certain the Classic Controller would work with it, along with the GC controller. Didn't see the Wiimote w/t Numchuck coming...but I suppose it would work. I might use the Wiimote sideways option,but generall I think I'll stay with the GC controller and CC. I still wonder how the Wiimote/Numchuck will work=another answer, 10 more questions.

Wiseguy said:
As for the Ridley song, I think it was Sakurai's way of saying: "Nintendo has me under a gag order until E3, so I can't reveal any new characters. But check out this rockin' tune! *hint hint, wink wink*

Same thing with Yoshi=ya. ACtually, I think it was someone from Nintendo's idea to hint stuff to us, to make us even more excited for Brawl=they sure are doing triple A grade making us all excited, epecially with the awsome daily updates. I think that move was the smartest move Nintendo could have done.

Wiseguy said:
"What is Super Smash Bros.?
It's a brawling, battling, action-packed video game that features a varied roster of characters for four-player simultaneous melees!"

Out of Sakurai's own mouth. It's a shame, though. 8 player matches would be mindblowingly awesome!

There is still a chance, but not much. I'd still love to do a 4 vs. 4 team battle=even more skill involved. I find it funny (as well as intresting) that basically all tournament played games with 8 on up players multiplayer games generally are 4 on 4's, or 1 on 1's.

Wiseguy said:
...or that Ike is very likely. We don't know which FE game the stage(s) are from.

I've played FE 3, and I'm pretty sure it's the castle from that. Darn you Japanese speaking ROm, and broken ROM!

Wiseguy said:
You make a good point. One or more stage specific threads would be a great way of discussing which character has an advantage where.

"Prepare to be Amazed and Astounded: Wiseguy's Brawl Stage Predictions"

^^^ How would that work=??? Anyways, ya a stage section would be neat. I would give us that much more info to use to our advantage. That way us SWF regulars will have that much more advantage over non-SWF members.

Wiseguy said:
To my knowlege, bats and yo-yos are items that can be used by all the Earthbound characters - including Poo. It seems to me that if Ness can steal Paula's psi attacks, so can Poo.

Poo only uses swords, Jeff only uses guns, electronics, rockets, and slingshots, while Paula uses pans, slingshots, and yo-yo's (not sure if Paula uses yo-yo's exactly). Ness uses bats, yo-yo's, and slingshots. If you're going for a new original Earth Bound/Mother character (moveset), Poo is the way to go. Otherwise you'd be better of with Paula, or even better Lucas.

Wiseguy said:
FFXIII does have some great visuals, but it's hard to tell how much of it is player-controlled and how much is just cutscenes...

In the FFXIII trailer it shows what looks to be actual gameplay. It looks that way because you see the combat system on the side. FF vs. XII doesn't show any, just William Shakespear quotes, and some awsome fool killing soldiers. Sorta reminds me of the FF VI troopers (which reminds me yesterday was the 12 aniversary of FFVI's release in NA=yae=random).

Wiseguy said:
Roy stared in one SNES game (Japanese only) and appeared in a short scene at the end of one GBA game. How does he represent the GBA games?

Taking into account that the Black Knight has played an important role in the two most recent Fire Emblems (both of which are/will be internationall released) he is clearly more important to the FE series thatn Roy is.

Then Hector or Sigurd can represent them.

Wiseguy said:
While G&W's character model is simple, his moveset would be just as time consuming to program and balance - the way i see it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Donkey Kong arcade game start Nintendo in gaming?

And, personally, I don't consider the runner up game to SMB to be that important to Nintendo's history.

Donkey Kong came out in 1981, the first G&W game came out in 1980. G&W introduced the world (mainly Japan) to GOOD handheld gaming, and Donkey Kong was a bussiness risk by Shigeru Miyamoto that helped light the flame in NA (and European) gaming. Then Mario Bros and Super Mario Bros. started a fire, and tLOZ+Metroid each made a nuclear explosion! (Okay not really=just a figure of speech...or is it=???)

Way to make G&W: Make him the same he was in Melee, but make him do more damage. DONE! You have the 2nd most original character returning, with little or no hastle=takes less time than a clone.

But Ice Climber did sell well! :laugh:

VS. Ice Climbers didn't follow the path of the original Ice Climber. Plus it virtual started the side scroller genre where you have to climb up a mountain. Not sure what that's worth, but I think that counts as something. Plus they are the most original characters in SSB, and set the standard for originality. You can't get much more original than that!

Wiseguy said:
Good point. I'll get on it.

I thinkg I saved you from the extremist King Dedede (dedede) fans+the extremist Dark Samus crowd (I'm only a memeber of the extremist WW Link crowd). I'm assuming Falco and WW Link will be somewhere in between where they are in Melee (for WW Link, the current YLink), and Luigi in Melee. In other words, they'll be generally a little less clooney than Pichu (who IMO was the second least clooney clone, only behind Luigi).

Actually, I think that is better than a original moveset=works, takes less time, and they're still they're old awsome selves.

Wiseguy said:
Wiseguy said:

Okay, but how about ROB? As Nintendo's first mascot, and clearly a unique character doesn't he deserve a spot in Brawl more than ICs or G&W - who have already had their chance?

Click to expand...

Will the Japanese SSB fans know him=??? (ROB didn't come out in Japan) The only reason I know who ROB is was because I saw some NES documentary on how it came to NA. He's just a robot who acts like a DJ. That's odd because I own a NES=anyways...G&W is a character who's had over 20 (maybe even 30) games of his own, and got Nintendo into handhelds.

It seems to be that changing Falco as radically as you are proposing and re-programing him into the game would be no less time consuming than designing a new Luigied clone from scratch with the Brawl engine specifically in mind. And like I said, there are plenty of contenders who deserve a spot just as much as Falco.

I read somewhere that Falco was the second most desired returney (I'm assuming it was for the characters in risk), behind only Marth. Not sure what it means, but I thought it was intresting. Pichu was last=never saw that coming!

Wiseguy said:

*Sheepish expression* Well... I kinda, sorta haven't got around to watching them yet. Hey, I've been busy! Don't worry, I'll get on it ASAP.

Click to expand...

Have fun....O and by the way I offer sheeps to the devil so WW Link will be in Brawl=ya.

Wiseguy said:

MGS3 is up there with Prime 1&2, Pikmin 2 and Twilight Princess as one of my personal favorite adventure games ever. The boss battles are easily the best in any game ever (just barely inching out Shadow of the Collosus) and the story is UNBELIEVABLY awesome. I won't spoil anything for you, but the ending is positively brilliant.

Click to expand...

Niether wil my cousin spoil anything. I don't do stealth, I do hide, sneak up, interogate them, then kill them (via slitting their throat). Repeat the process, until found, then use your sniper, gernades, AK-47, handguns, shotguns, machine guns, etc. as needed. Something tells me The Sorrow is going to p*** me off=I've killed virtually the enitre Russian Army.

Wiseguy said:

Minor correction: I just noticed that I was a bit off on Macdonald's profile. He made the first TransNATIONAL railway (a railroad stretching from the coast to coast) not the first international railway. This railroad was a significant factor in eventually bringing all the loyal British colonies togther into Confederation, creating the country you know as Canada. Hey, the more you know...

Click to expand...

Reminds me I have AP History homework. Aw well, I'll be lazy, I already have half of it done (it's due in 2 months).

Wiseguy said:

Prime has been in development longer, but if they have been working on a multiplayer mode all this time, why haven't they said so?

Click to expand...

Woah I had an idea, that could work if online didn't come with Prime 3. But before that, Retro Studios (the developer) said they are intresting on making it a Wi-Fi24 online multiplayer title. And many of the hunters will return, including a new one named Rundus, and a purple female hunter.

Anyways, if MP3 doesn't come with online, maybe Retro Studios and Nintendo will make a expasion pakc (like MGS 2&3: Substinance) or have it downloadable or something. But I'm almost willing to bet it will have some sort of online function, whether on release or in the future. I'm honestly almost as excited for MP3 as I am SSBB=a lot. I'll definitely wait out side in the cold (or since it's summer the cool and nice weather) to get it.

Wiseguy said:

Actually, Samus had a voice in Prime 1&2. She would cry out in pain if she was damaged. But yeah, I want to hear Samus speak for once. She's an interesting character, and a including her in a deeper and more involved storyine would be the perfect way to end the Prime triliogy.

Click to expand...

Ya, but Link's had a voice since Zelda II (he went "umph" when hurt), and he hasn' spoken a word (other than a thought to self in Zelda II, and "hey" and c'mon in Wind Waker), but hopefully she'll get a GOOD voice. Like a bad a** female form of Snake voice=awsome! Let us hope if she has a voice, it will be good, and fit here.

I found something intresting. There is a Metroid game that could be canceled, and has little if any news on it called Metroid Dread, and is suppose to be the sequal to Fusion. It's suppose to be 2D, but it could be changed, but either way I'll be more than happy (imagine a online 2D Metroid). It has had no official news to confirm or deny if it's still going to be made or not, but I thought I'd jsut throw that one out there. Hopefully Nintendo goes through with another amazing entre in a amazing series.

Personally, I think with Battaleon Wars 2 and Brawl coming this fall we'll have all the online multiplayer we need. Prime 3 rounds out the Wii's 2007 lineup by bringing an epic, lengthy FPS/Adventure experience. Halo's got NOTHING on Nintendo.

NOTHING if Prime 3 has online as good (or even better) than Hunters, then we'll have a classic FPS rivalry. Halo 3 vs. Metroid Prime and Battaleon Wars 2 vs. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare! Let the shoot out commense! Nintendo is obviously trying to destroy they're last competition in Microsoft and Halo 3.

I mean c'mon, Halo 3 won't outsell Brawl and Galaxy, and add Prime 3, Bataleon Wars 2, and others into the mix, and you get the picture. I'm guessing by this time 2008, the Wii will outsell the 360 easily. Considering how the PS3 is basically out, considering all it's got exclusively that is good coming out is Rachet and Clank, and a few others (War Hawk looks like bad Wiimote pilot posing, and Killzone 2 will be like Killzone: NOT sell well, and get bad reviews).

Wiseguy said:

I've played all the Prime game (my personal favorite game series) but I have yet to check out the 2-D games (I like my adventure games in glorious 3-D). However, now that I own a DS I'll have to check out Zero Mission and Fussion. I'll also most likely download Super Metroid once it comes to VC...

Click to expand...

Super Metroid....if it comes out on the VC, I won't think about getting it, I will get it! Same thing with Super Mario Bros. 3, even if I have that already on the NES and GBA (I love that game).

Wiseguy said:

Tom Nook is easily the most recagnized Animal Crossing character among people who haven't played an AC game yet, so he is the logical choice to represent the series.

Perhaps when and if Miis appear in AC Wii next year, they can represent the series. In the here and now, Miis have never apeared in an AC game, so they can't represent the series in Brawl.

Click to expand...

I'm willing to be Miis will be the new AC humans, or some form of them. I think by next year we'll see them. And since they more than likely will, they are a more proper rep. for the series, and are definitely more reconizable.

Wiseguy said:

That's an interesting way of looking at it. Zelda reinvented both 2-D and 3-D gaming, when you think about it.

Hypothetically speaking, what would a Twilight Princess sequel be like?

Click to expand...

Something exactly the same, but at the same time the utter opposite.

Wiseguy said:

Batman Begins was seriously great. That movie single handedly undid the damage of Batman and Robin and *shudders* Batman Forever and brought back Batman's dignity. I have fath that the new Joker in the sequel will turn out to be different that Nicolas' legendary preformance, but just as awesome.

Spiderman and X-men are good too, but the single greatest super hero movie was the Hulk, no question. A complex storyline, incredible writing and acting, camera angles that pay homage to comic book panels and breathtaking action sequences combine to make a true masterpiece. HULK SMASH!!!

Off topic? WHAT TOPIC!?!

Click to expand...

Batman Begins owned=Adam West was proud! Batman FOrever was okay, but Batman & Robin...bleah! Nothing beat Nicholas' performance, but I bet it will be cool. HEHE, Hulk 2 will be good=yae.

Wiseguy said:

No arguments here. Diddy is as original as they come and MGS3 is pure awesome.

Click to expand...

Disagree and awser to Lord Vader!

Wiseguy said:

Ferro's incredible Midna/Wolf moveset is what convinced me that the character had a strong chance of appearing, though I'd still wouldn't mind seeing Twili midna.

Click to expand...

It was a Jedi mindtrick, wasn't it Ferro=???

Wiseguy said:

Miciaiah could be included for the same reason Roy was: to increase sales up their game, which is being released around the same time as Smash Bros. Roy is no more important to the FE series than any other lord, and both he and Marth are not as important to the series as Ike because most FE fans can't buy their games without importing.

Click to expand...

But Ike could do that, and Marth is far more reconizable and popular. Sure Ike is only the main character of 1/3rd the game, but he can adverise the series just as well, and probably better.

Wiseguy said:

Goroh could be given a unique moveset, but given the somewhat niche status of the F-zero series I think a Ganondorf-esque cloned moveset is more likely.

Click to expand...

Ya, that's what I'd say Goroh will end out being like.

Wiseguy said:

Stealing Ness' moves is exactly what I had in mind. Given Earthbound's relative lack of importance, I think one original character and one clone is fair.

Click to expand...

I guess, but c'mon his name is POO!

Wiseguy said:

Perfect Dark DS! PLEASEPLEASEPLEASEPLEASEPLEASEPLEASEPLEASEPLEASEPLEASE...

Click to expand...

YES YES YES YES YES YES YES! Along with Golden Eye 007 DS...

Overall great updates Wiseguy. I agree with all the courses, except I think the WW course should be one of the eyed fortress isles. Basically it would be a fight between Tetra's ship, and pirates, moving at unconstant speeds, while you can fight on Tetra's ship (where you start), go onenemy ships, and fight on the island. All while being fired at by canon's from enemy ships and Tetra's ship.

O D I N · Jun 21, 2007

Blue Bomber; That MM pic is actually art from Marvel vs. Capcom.

More contributions later.

DJ Napps · Jun 21, 2007

Tru...

Kunitsuna said:
I guess I´ll take the challenge too. In my opinion Bomberman really isn´t any sort of shoe-in, though, and could very easily not make it into the game.

Super Mario Bros.
01. Mario
02. Luigi
03. Peach
04. Bowser
05. Bowser Jr.
06. Toad

Yoshi´s Island
07. Yoshi

Donkey Kong
08. Donkey Kong
09. Diddy Kong

WarioWare
10. Wario

Kid Icarus
11. Pit

The Legend of Zelda
12. Link
13. Zelda
14. Ganondorf
15. Midna

Kirby
16. Kirby
17. Metaknight
18. King Dedede

Pikmin
19. Captain Olimar

Pokémon
20. Pikachu
21. Jigglypuff
22. Meowth
23. Deoxys

Metroid
24. Samus
25. Zero-Suit Samus
26. Ridley

Star Fox
27. Fox
28. Falco
29. Krystal

F-Zero
30. Captain Falcon

Earthbound / MOTHER
31. Lucas
32. Masked Boy

Fire Emblem
33. Ike
34. Sigurd

Balloon Fighter
35. Alice

Punch-Out!!
36. Little Mac

Ice Climbers
37. Ice Climbers

Metal Gear
38. Snake

Sonic
39. Sonic the Hedgehog

Joy Mecha Fight
40. Sukapon

Yea....Bomberman is definitely not a shoe-in. In fact most of the characters on my lists arent. Thats why its my PREDICTION list. A good number of those characters may not appear in the next Smash Bros. fighter (i.e. Yoshi, Donkey Kong, etc.: although they most definitely will......right?). n.e.way- i got what you were saying but i see him as a very likely character. He's appeared alongside current Brawlers like Wario and Snake, is fairly popular, and his moveset is very duoable. Sadly, this is the same for Pacman, since hes appear in games with Mario himself and Sakurai likes him.....alot. He would be a "shoe-in" too, if he didnt....umm...well....suck. A few more supporters wouldnt hurt either.

Back on topic, nice list. Alot of very good possibilities, excluding a few "ifys".

Phaazoid · Jun 21, 2007

@johnknight1
no, E3 is july11-13 i think.
i have decided to try the 40 character challenge, so i will post it a bit later.

Phaazoid · Jun 21, 2007

1. Mario
2.Luigi
3.Yoshi
4.Peach
5. Bowser
6. Wario
7./8.Samus/Zero Suit(like zelda shiek)
9.Ridley
10.Ganondorf
11.Link
12./13. Zelda?Shiek
14.Skull Kid
15.Captain Falcon
16.Fox
17.Falco
18.Wolf
19.Marth
20.Ike
21.Donkey Kong
22 Diddy Kong
23.King K Rool
24.Kirby
25.Meta-Knight
26.King Dedede
27.Pikachu
28.Jiggly Puff
29.Mewtwo
30.Deoxys
31.Captain Olimar
32.Ness
33.Balloon Fighter
34.Mr. Game @ Watch
35.Pit
36.Sonic
37.Mega Man
38.Mii
39.Snake
40.Samurai Gorah

this is what i think is likely, not what i want. though i would be pleased with this list, (no clones) i would also expect to see krystal, black knight, mach rider, (if not counted as third party) geno, dark samus, and lucario. that is 46, which is reasonable, and 44 if you count samus/zss and z/s as one each. i hope someone save me from double post
edit:nope, i have double posted. sorry

Wiseguy · Jun 22, 2007

Another monster post to wrtie, and its already 12:30 am. Why do I do this to myself?

Drascin said:
I can believe that. Man, yours are not walsl of text any longer. No, this has gone far beyond the mere concept of wall, to start comparing with the very boundaries of the Earth's mantle in length and density.

Which is exactly why I'm going to retort to a lot of your post! Suffer under your own attack, you fiend! *casts mirror wall*

How long can this war of escalation continue? We'll find out...

*Uses Mario's cape to refect reflected wall back at Drascin*

Drascin said:
I'm with Wisey here. I don't know why, but PD trapped me a lot more than Halo did. I actually bothered completing the challenges in PD, but I didn't even complete my first playthrough through Halo!

Also, loved the weapon design in the game. The Slayer was the MGS Nikita on steroids (pilotable missiles are ALWAYS a plus), the Maian guns were just cool (Callisto, Phoenix, Farsight), and double-intent kits like the RPG120 (I think that was the model... it's been what, seven years since I last played? Anyway, the one which was a sub-machine gun and cloaking device all in one) were aplenty.

The weapons in PD were soooo unbeleiveably fun. The slayer and the laptop gun in particular were enough to strike far into the heart of the most skilled of players.

Drascin said:
Indeed. Both of your ideas are interesting, and I myself would also favor maybe Impact Crater or Phendrana (I favor soft-colored, calm scenarios frm a visual standpoint, and Phendrana fits that description )

Good ideas, both. Phendrana was perhaps my favoriteenviornment in Prime 1.

Drascin said:
I think what Mendez meant by "wasn't intended" is exactly that: it may now be a Starfox game, but it wasn't intended to be, as it wasn't really conceived as one. It was to be called Dinosaur Planet, and would star two very young anthro cats as its protagonists.

Okay, but regardless of their original intention, the fact remains that Dinosaur Planet was made into a Starfox game. And a pretty great one at that.

Drascin said:
Along with that, you have to take into account the fact that Smashers really like skilled weaponfighters, and FE is the franchise with more charismatic examples of that category among Nintendo franchises. So yeah, FE is very much likely to be represented by 2-3 chars, minimum.

Good point.

Drascin said:
A-freaking-men. People keep saying all over that they want Brawl to keep everything, and not change the gameplay, and... ****it, people, we're trying to make a new game here, ya know?

Fearing change: apparently, the sign of a true Smasher ¬¬.

It's comforting to know I'm not the only one who feels that way. Melee is a great game and all, but isn't it time for a new Smash Bros?

Drascin said:
Do not remind me of Ness's fall, please. I loved playing that guy, along with Jigglypuff, but then he was nerfed into absolute oblivion in Melee. Which hurt a lot. I still play him somewhat, but the almost inability to kill anything under 120% damage even with a smash is frustrating.

Poor Ness. Let's hope we see him restored to his former glory for Brawl.

Drascin said:
I imagine they are basing it of Melee's engine, so it would be easier to port than to make from scratch - but not really as easy as copying and pasting, as the engine will undoubtedly have been tinkered with greatly. So you can probably say bringing a past char would probably take around 1/2, 2/3 at most, the time a new char would take.

That might be true, for all I know. This is all, of course, only speculation. But I still think that time would b better served creating a new character addition - but that's just me.

Drascin said:
I feel you might be selling the game a bit short. Sports games, if they're easy to pick up, are almost always a sure bet with casuals, and having Mario in the title can only help with recognition.

Perhaps, but I'm still skeptical. I think meny hardcore players will dismiss the game as yet another mini-game collection, while casul gamers (who don't know anything about the Mario/Sonic rivalry) much also apss it up as too hardcore for them. At any rate, it certainly won't outsell Brawl.

Drascin said:
Though actually, King Mickey in his KH2 getup would be utterly, mindblowingly awesome, so very much more than Sora. Awww... See what you've done? Now you have me all sad because that's a great idea for a character which has absolutely zero chance of appearing in the game .

Seriously, King Mickey > Sora. Hell, King Mickey > Sephirot, at least he makes sense when he speaks!

KING MICKEY FOR BRAWL!!!

What have I unleashed?

Drascin said:
Anywhere would do. Though, if I could have my wish, we'd have the Twilight Palace balcony, with the cascades of dark substance and the rays of light from the spheres of light intermingling in the background before the Twilight Realm's hazy sky, for an scenario with a totally stunning visual factor.

Wow, that would be pretty awesome. Maybe I'll inlcude that in a future update.

Drascin said:
Well, I am. There are a lot of characters I would have before Tingle, ranging from Skull Kid to Vaati to Old Orca to even the random running guy from ALttP. Anything but Tingle!

Drascin said:
I simply dislike him, to be honest. I liked Medli, I liked Makore, I loved Tetra's crew - all of them very unique and lovable characters - ...yet I wouldn't really mind if Tingle fell headfirst from his tower and split his skull. Not celebrate. I mean I care so little for him I'd shrug and keep sailing looking for more treasure.

Drascin said:
Even better, not. Not punching bag, not trophy, not char, not anything. It is as if a Spawn of Chaos has touched him - even his memory deleted from those who knew him.

Yes, that would be the true perfect .

Wow, it sounds like you despise Tingle almost as I do Sheik. And that's saying something.

..

Drascin said:
. ... ... ...

*shudders*

You do realize I'm not going to be able to sleep tonight because of the thought of that, right?

WAH HA HA HA HA HA HA!

Sleep tight Drascin.

"Tingle Lingle Loo Limpa!"

Drascin said:
Meh. Not really, IMHO, but hey, to each their own. If you really want to, let's say Krazoa Palace as Krystal's stage and be done with it.

I've got a much better idea. Stay tuned...

Drascin said:
Yeah, it's not like Samus lacks costumes to put her in. Light Suit, Phazon Suit, Gravity Suit, Fusion Suit, and a veeery long etcetera. Come on Sakurai, give us some of them at least!

I'm with you there. I love just about all the different suits - though I have a special affinity for Prime 2's Dark Suit, for some reason.

Drascin said:
Indeed, we megaman fans are many and vocal. But I'm with Odin here. Zero or X would be much, much cooler than original Mega (I am very biased towards MMZ version, but I'd settle for X saga Zero or original X). I mean, ley's give a bit of a comparison here. Who would you prefer to have as a fighter:

This

or this

Well, despite Zero being totally impossible, I hope at least X is an alternate costume for megaman. Or even better, powerarmor X.

Since I am completely unfamiliar with the series, I'm going to stay out of this particular debate.

My stance: whatever makes the most MM fans happy is fine with me, but I'd prefer that they choose a moveset that is as different from Samus as possible.

Drascin said:
Nah. More like, blame the conception adult people have of today's kids. My cousin knows more than half of the kooplings, and he has only played SMB3 once and in english (and he doesn't even know english).

He also likes Bowser junior for being funny and a jester, tho .

Fine, I'll revoke my previous statement.

Drascin said:
Same here. My preference would go Lyn>Micaiah>Ike>Black Knight>Hector> everyone else. And since Lyndis is not happening, I'd settle for Micaiah ^^. We're awfully low on magic users, and Sakurai seemed to think the roster needed more feminine presence, anyway, and Micaiah fits both bills, plus she'd be a nice advertising of the next game. All in all, if Sakurai had the time for it, Micaiah actually has a very good chance, IMO.

We seem to be in agreement on that front.

Drascin said:
Still prefer Presea by a longshot (petite girl able to tear trees apart with bare hands > stereotypical RPG protagonist), but Lloyd is very nice too.

Yeah, most of the Symphonia cast would make great Brawl additions.

HEAR THAT SAKURAI?!?!? IT'S NOT TOO LATE! INCLUDE SYMPHONIA CHARACTERS IN BRAWL!!!

O D I N said:
But I hate Goroh!

I'm not saying you HAVE to use Goroh, but if you miss Ganondorf's Melee movset he would be a safe choice. Surely, in a 35-40 character roster you'll b able to find at least one to your liking.

Ferro De Lupe said:
Perhaps with the next Smash installment, I can revive it.

Great idea. Also, the day after Brawl, look for "Prepare to be Asounded and Amazed - AGAIN! Wiseguy's SSB4 Predictions" :laugh:

YosterDragon said:
Man, the old concept art from Dinosaur Planet was great. The game really looked like it was going to be a cool new IP for Rare, but then Mr. Miyamoto made one of the few mistakes (IMHO) he's ever made. "Hey, you know what would be great with this mystical prehistoric world? Foxes. Space foxes." Sigh.

It was not Miamoto who failed us, but you Starfox Adventures haters who are failing him.

I still say that SFA is one of the best single player games on the Cube, and definitely worthy of more repsect. Space foxes and prehistoric planets go together like peanut butter and chocolate.

Drascin said:
Personally, I'll be happy as long as she appears with an original moveset (die Mewtwo/Zelda clone idealists!) I just think that the best way for Midna to be represented is riding Wolf Link.

I'm with you there, but I still wouldn't mind seeing Twili Midna as a Zelda clone - if the Smash team gets pressed for time and its the only way that Midna can be included. Really, with so many possibilities, it seems inevitabel that Midna will appear in some form.

Ferro De Lupe said:
@Wise: The moveset's location varies depending on the website layout. I suggest changing the "on page 33" to the post #.

Good point. I'd make the edit in tommorow's update.

TDub301 said:
Yes, Perfect Dark was a way better game than Halo 2, comparatively speaking. Obviously the graphics of Halo 2 are better and it's newer and has better coding, but Perfect Dark blows Halo 2 out of the water. Anybody who disagrees isn't a fps player, just a Halo player (there are plenty of people who just play Halo and think it's God's gift to fpses when it isn't even close). Don't get me wrong, Halo 2 is fun, but it has nowhere near the depth that PD had, with all the different weapons (which each had 2 different functions) and such. And you could have bots, too, so multiplayer with up to like 16 people was possible before consoles went online. My god, I could go on all day about how PD destroys Halo 2.

To be perfectly honest I've never played Halo 2 before, but I'm not sure if the game would hold up all that well by today's standards (the N64 controller is not ideal for a FPS). Still, I agree that PD, for it's time, was more revolutionary thatn Halo - which just perfected the formual that already existed (from what I understand).

Man, what I wouldn't give for a DS remake of PD...

TDub301 said:
Also, Ryu Hayabusa is an excellect choice for Brawl as well, and also Simon Belmont, too. Too many great characters could be in this game, it's mind-boggling.

Some of these posts are crazy long

I couldn't agree more, man. Ryu and Belmont would raise the awesome quota of Brawl through the roof.

Sorry for the ridiculously long posts. It's kind of inevitable, given the wide range of topics covered in this thread.

Copperpot said:
Personally, I think Ryu Hayabusa's chances of getting into Brawl are slim to none. Sure, Snake made it, but you have to consider that Ryu is already a representative of another fighting game series on another console (Dead or Alive). Why would they give one of their roster's favorites (or at least most recognizable) away to a fighting game that is only going to draw away their customer base? The answer: they probably won't.

Simon has a better chance than Ryu ever will.

Well, Having Ryu in Brawl would definitely help sales of the upcoming Ninja Giaden DS (which, from what I hear, is awesome on every level) and also pay tribute to his acclaimed NES games. And most of all, his popularity in Brawl might be enough to convinced Tecmo to bring Ninja Giaden and/or Dead or Alive to the Wii.

DJ Napps said:
I am "amazed and astounded" by Wiseguy's list, alot of good possibilities.
...
Yet the list is still missing a very possible, popular character: Bomberman. I'm surprised you overlooked him.

Moving on, i read your update and here are my predictions...(40 total)

1) Mario (Dr. Mario costume)
2) Luigi
3) Bowser
4) Peach
5) Yoshi
6) Donkey Kong
7) Fox
8) Ness
9) Poo
10) Kirby
11) Samus/Zero Suit Samus
12) Zelda (no Sheik)
13) Link
14) Wind Waker Link
15) Pikachu
16) Jiggly Puff
17) Lucario/Deoxys{spelling?} (i dont know which will make it, my money is on Lucario)
18) Mr. Game and Watch
19) Marth
20) Wario
21) Metaknight
22) Pit
23) Snake
24) Krystal
25) King Boo
26) Bowser Jr.
27) Mii (diff. Miis from your Wii as costumes)
28) Capt. Olimar
29) Diddy & Dixie Kong (as IC duo)
30) Geno (I’m not counting him as third-party, even tho he technically is)
31) Gandorf
32) C. Falcon
33) Minda & Wolf Link
34) Ballon Fighter
35) King Dedede
36) Ike
37) King K. Rool

38) Bomberman !!!!
39) Sonic (Shadow costume, Tails shows up to help occasionally)
40) Megaman/ Pacman (<--no, not as a duo. I'm not sure which will make it. Megaman has the popularity but Pacman has the love and suport from Sakurai, not to mention Pacman has starred in a Mario game. However, Pacman's moveset will be a challenge.)

Thats it. By your standards its 38 and 2/3 (Poo and WW Link are clones). Questions?

Well, aside from the lack of Ridley (seriously man, that's just inexcusable) and the Diddy/Dixie idea (which kind of insulting to Diddy, in my view. Does he really need his girl friend to face off against Pikachu?) it's not half bad. Personally, I'd rank your list as a 7/10 - but that's just me.

Kunitsuna said:
I guess I´ll take the challenge too. In my opinion Bomberman really isn´t any sort of shoe-in, though, and could very easily not make it into the game.

Super Mario Bros.
01. Mario
02. Luigi
03. Peach
04. Bowser
05. Bowser Jr.
06. Toad

Yoshi´s Island
07. Yoshi

Donkey Kong
08. Donkey Kong
09. Diddy Kong

WarioWare
10. Wario

Kid Icarus
11. Pit

The Legend of Zelda
12. Link
13. Zelda
14. Ganondorf
15. Midna

Kirby
16. Kirby
17. Metaknight
18. King Dedede

Pikmin
19. Captain Olimar

Pokémon
20. Pikachu
21. Jigglypuff
22. Meowth
23. Deoxys

Metroid
24. Samus
25. Zero-Suit Samus
26. Ridley

Star Fox
27. Fox
28. Falco
29. Krystal

F-Zero
30. Captain Falcon

Earthbound / MOTHER
31. Lucas
32. Masked Boy

Fire Emblem
33. Ike
34. Sigurd

Balloon Fighter
35. Alice

Punch-Out!!
36. Little Mac

Ice Climbers
37. Ice Climbers

Metal Gear
38. Snake

Sonic
39. Sonic the Hedgehog

Joy Mecha Fight
40. Sukapon

Personally, I'd consider it a bit unfair to give Mario a whoping 6 characters while only including 4 Zelda characters.

I also don;t see the logic in including two blue haired Fire Emblem sword fighters, considering the diversity within the series.

I'm almst afraid to ask, but who is the Masked boy?

All in all, good job.

7.5/10

Devastlian said:
I believe Cheif Mendez is referring to the game Metroid Dread, IE Metroid 5, that is supposed to be in development (and delayed a couple times) for the DS by Intelligent Systems. Here's some more info. It's definately towards the top of my E3 list alongside SSBB, SMG, MP3, and the third game from Team ICO which will be the deciding factor in my wanting to purchace a PS3.

Anyway, I just hope Metroid Dread's better than Intelligent Systems' last game. :/ :\

Interesting. Maybe this will surface at E3?

O D I N said:
I'm a little surprised (in recent pages anyway) that no one has mentioned Advance Wars. While Battalion Wars was more recent (and announced for the Wii), I feel Advance Wars is certainly more popular.

Mendez is our resident Advance Wars advocate. He posted a good Andy moveset a few (hundred) pages back, though I'm still not convinced that a chracter who primarily wacks his opponets with a hammer would be very appealing.

YosterDragon said:
That same question applies to Bowser Jr. too, you know. And as for the explanation? Straight from wikipedia's King Bowser page:

"It was once revealed in Nintendo Power of the UK that Bowser's wife and the mother of the Koopalings is Clawdia, Queen of the Koopas. Clawdia has not made an appearance in any Mario games to date."

Honestly? That's kinda scary

That is pretty scary. Maybe she will apear in a future game?

Johnknight1 said:

Ya after wakeboarding, tubing, getting food poisoned, and owning my friend at Melee (=oya 4 stock=he thought he'd beat me and the closest he came I 3 stocked him=ya!). Also I've been offering souls to the devil so that Wind Waker Link will be in Brawl=just to be sure!

Click to expand...

I'm not sure the soul selling is neccessary. WW Link is a shoe in already.

Johnknight1 said:

I'm not worried about it, I'm 99% positive they'll be diffrent characters. I doubt we'll learn this week, but I think we could learn next week at earliest, E3 (which is at late July) at latest. Again, Samus loses her power suit and is in her ZSS form in Metroid: Zero Mission, in which she loses it (not going to say spoilers). We call tha "certain conditions"=hopefully=2 characters in 1 is cheap (the main reason I don't like Shiek and Zelda).

Click to expand...

Separate characters woulod be preferable, but I'm not sure if Sakurai will see it that way. Maybe in tomorrow's update, we'll find out for sure.

Johnknight1 said:

Same thing with Yoshi=ya. ACtually, I think it was someone from Nintendo's idea to hint stuff to us, to make us even more excited for Brawl=they sure are doing triple A grade making us all excited, epecially with the awsome daily updates. I think that move was the smartest move Nintendo could have done.

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No argument here.

Johnknight1 said:

There is still a chance, but not much. I'd still love to do a 4 vs. 4 team battle=even more skill involved. I find it funny (as well as intresting) that basically all tournament played games with 8 on up players multiplayer games generally are 4 on 4's, or 1 on 1's.

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Sorry, but I don't thnk there is any chance of more than 4 characters permatch. The Dojo update was pretty clear. We'll just have to wait for SSB4...

Johnknight1 said:

I've played FE 3, and I'm pretty sure it's the castle from that. Darn you Japanese speaking ROm, and broken ROM!

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Pretty much all FE games have a castle scen like that, so it could be from just about any of them.

Johnknight1 said:

"Prepare to be Amazed and Astounded: Wiseguy's Brawl Stage Predictions"

^^^ How would that work=??? Anyways, ya a stage section would be neat. I would give us that much more info to use to our advantage. That way us SWF regulars will have that much more advantage over non-SWF members.

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No way. A better title would be Prepare to be Flaberguasted and Stupidfied: Wiseguy's Brawl Stage Predictions.

I actually had one planned, but I kept putting it off. Now, I guess I'll just post all my stage ideas here, via updates.

Johnknight1 said:

Poo only uses swords, Jeff only uses guns, electronics, rockets, and slingshots, while Paula uses pans, slingshots, and yo-yo's (not sure if Paula uses yo-yo's exactly). Ness uses bats, yo-yo's, and slingshots. If you're going for a new original Earth Bound/Mother character (moveset), Poo is the way to go. Otherwise you'd be better of with Paula, or even better Lucas.

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Sure, it wouldn't be perfectly true to the game to clone Poo, but it makes just as much sense as giving Paula's moves to Ness.

Johnknight1 said:

Then Hector or Sigurd can represent them.

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My bad. Roy is actually from a Japanese-only GBA game. But given how poorly the handheld FEs were recieved in Japan, I think we should stick with characters from the internationally eleased console games.

Johnknight1 said:

Donkey Kong came out in 1981, the first G&W game came out in 1980. G&W introduced the world (mainly Japan) to GOOD handheld gaming, and Donkey Kong was a bussiness risk by Shigeru Miyamoto that helped light the flame in NA (and European) gaming. Then Mario Bros and Super Mario Bros. started a fire, and tLOZ+Metroid each made a nuclear explosion! (Okay not really=just a figure of speech...or is it=???)

Way to make G&W: Make him the same he was in Melee, but make him do more damage. DONE! You have the 2nd most original character returning, with little or no hastle=takes less time than a clone.

But Ice Climber did sell well! VS. Ice Climbers didn't follow the path of the original Ice Climber. Plus it virtual started the side scroller genre where you have to climb up a mountain. Not sure what that's worth, but I think that counts as something. Plus they are the most original characters in SSB, and set the standard for originality. You can't get much more original than that!

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Thanks for the history lesson, but my opinion is unchanged.

Yes, G&W and ICs were unique fighters and important reprentatives of retro games. However, I feel that their apearance in Melee effectively payed tribute to both characters, so the time necessary in programing them in Brawl should be spent instead on including new characters. That's just the way I see it. I suspect we may have to agree to disagree on this file, my friend.

Johnknight1 said:

I thinkg I saved you from the extremist King Dedede (dedede) fans+the extremist Dark Samus crowd (I'm only a memeber of the extremist WW Link crowd). I'm assuming Falco and WW Link will be somewhere in between where they are in Melee (for WW Link, the current YLink), and Luigi in Melee. In other words, they'll be generally a little less clooney than Pichu (who IMO was the second least clooney clone, only behind Luigi).

Actually, I think that is better than a original moveset=works, takes less time, and they're still they're old awsome selves.

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I ultimately elected to list Dx3 and DS as Luigified clones, and just call WW Link a regular clone - ala Melee Young Link. But yeah, he would be more unique than Pichu, regardless.

Johnknight1 said:

Will the Japanese SSB fans know him=??? (ROB didn't come out in Japan) The only reason I know who ROB is was because I saw some NES documentary on how it came to NA. He's just a robot who acts like a DJ. That's odd because I own a NES=anyways...G&W is a character who's had over 20 (maybe even 30) games of his own, and got Nintendo into handhelds.

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Mario Kart DS and Wario Ware Smooth Moves were released in Japan, so they would recagnize him just as easily as North Americans, I suspect.

Johnknight1 said:

I read somewhere that Falco was the second most desired returney (I'm assuming it was for the characters in risk), behind only Marth. Not sure what it means, but I thought it was intresting. Pichu was last=never saw that coming!

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Is that really surprising, considering that he is at th very top of the tier list? Same wth Marth - most Smashers choose their characters based on how powerful they are, not on how effectively they represent their series of origin.

Johnknight1 said:

Woah I had an idea, that could work if online didn't come with Prime 3. But before that, Retro Studios (the developer) said they are intresting on making it a Wi-Fi24 online multiplayer title. And many of the hunters will return, including a new one named Rundus, and a purple female hunter.

Anyways, if MP3 doesn't come with online, maybe Retro Studios and Nintendo will make a expasion pakc (like MGS 2&3: Substinance) or have it downloadable or something. But I'm almost willing to bet it will have some sort of online function, whether on release or in the future. I'm honestly almost as excited for MP3 as I am SSBB=a lot. I'll definitely wait out side in the cold (or since it's summer the cool and nice weather) to get it.

Click to expand...

Yeah, additional downloadable content would be great. Nice idea.

I should really preorder my copy of Prime 3 soon...

Johnknight1 said:

Ya, but Link's had a voice since Zelda II (he went "umph" when hurt), and he hasn' spoken a word (other than a thought to self in Zelda II, and "hey" and c'mon in Wind Waker), but hopefully she'll get a GOOD voice. Like a bad a** female form of Snake voice=awsome! Let us hope if she has a voice, it will be good, and fit here.

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Maybe she could say a few words ocasionally, but I hope shr maintains the cold, sombre personality that gamers have come to associate her with. I don't want Retro to turn Samus into a chatterbox...

Johnknight1 said:

I found something intresting. There is a Metroid game that could be canceled, and has little if any news on it called Metroid Dread, and is suppose to be the sequal to Fusion. It's suppose to be 2D, but it could be changed, but either way I'll be more than happy (imagine a online 2D Metroid). It has had no official news to confirm or deny if it's still going to be made or not, but I thought I'd jsut throw that one out there. Hopefully Nintendo goes through with another amazing entre in a amazing series.

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We just discussed this, but yeah it is intriguing. Let's hope this doesn't go the way of Duke Nukem Forever.

Johnknight1 said:

NOTHING if Prime 3 has online as good (or even better) than Hunters, then we'll have a classic FPS rivalry. Halo 3 vs. Metroid Prime and Battaleon Wars 2 vs. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare! Let the shoot out commense! Nintendo is obviously trying to destroy they're last competition in Microsoft and Halo 3.

I mean c'mon, Halo 3 won't outsell Brawl and Galaxy, and add Prime 3, Bataleon Wars 2, and others into the mix, and you get the picture. I'm guessing by this time 2008, the Wii will outsell the 360 easily. Considering how the PS3 is basically out, considering all it's got exclusively that is good coming out is Rachet and Clank, and a few others (War Hawk looks like bad Wiimote pilot posing, and Killzone 2 will be like Killzone: NOT sell well, and get bad reviews).

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Halo 3 might sell more copies than Brawl (DEFINITLY more than Galaxy, sorry to say) but the Wii will almost certainly outsell the 360. Judging by the recent sales numbers, everyone who wanted to buy a 360 already has.

And yeah, the PS3 is down for the count.

Johnknight1 said:

I'm willing to be Miis will be the new AC humans, or some form of them. I think by next year we'll see them. And since they more than likely will, they are a more proper rep. for the series, and are definitely more reconizable.

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Maybe that will be true in the years to come, but until we know for sure that Miis will appear in the next AC, fans of the series will be without a rep this fall.

NOOK FOR BRAWL!

Johnknight1 said:

But Ike could do that, and Marth is far more reconizable and popular. Sure Ike is only the main character of 1/3rd the game, but he can adverise the series just as well, and probably better.

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Acording to Nintendo Power, Miciaiah is the main lord int he game - so she would make a better rep for GoD.

Marth is more recagnizazle popular only becuase he appeared in Melee. Once Miciaiah appears in Brawl ,she will be more recagnizable and popular.

Johnknight1 said:

I guess, but c'mon his name is POO!

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Think of all the trash talking you could do!

"Poo is such a piece of crap."

"You play as Poo? TURD LOVER!"

The fun will never end.

Johnknight1 said:

Overall great updates Wiseguy. I agree with all the courses, except I think the WW course should be one of the eyed fortress isles. Basically it would be a fight between Tetra's ship, and pirates, moving at unconstant speeds, while you can fight on Tetra's ship (where you start), go onenemy ships, and fight on the island. All while being fired at by canon's from enemy ships and Tetra's ship.

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Well, I can see how your idea would be more exciting - but personally I prefer stages without a lot of hazzards or odd layouts. Still, any WW stage would make me happy.

samusrules93 said:

1. Mario
2.Luigi
3.Yoshi
4.Peach
5. Bowser
6. Wario
7./8.Samus/Zero Suit(like zelda shiek)
9.Ridley
10.Ganondorf
11.Link
12./13. Zelda?Shiek
14.Skull Kid
15.Captain Falcon
16.Fox
17.Falco
18.Wolf
19.Marth
20.Ike
21.Donkey Kong
22 Diddy Kong
23.King K Rool
24.Kirby
25.Meta-Knight
26.King Dedede
27.Pikachu
28.Jiggly Puff
29.Mewtwo
30.Deoxys
31.Captain Olimar
32.Ness
33.Balloon Fighter
34.Mr. Game @ Watch
35.Pit
36.Sonic
37.Mega Man
38.Mii
39.Snake
40.Samurai Gorah

this is what i think is likely, not what i want. though i would be pleased with this list, (no clones) i would also expect to see krystal, black knight, mach rider, (if not counted as third party) geno, dark samus, and lucario. that is 46, which is reasonable, and 44 if you count samus/zss and z/s as one each. i hope someone save me from double post
edit:nope, i have double posted. sorry

Click to expand...

I still disagree on having so many Melee characters return - but I understand where you are coming from. Aside from that, I rather like it. 8/10

Geez, 3:00 am. But I'm finished!

Good night all.

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LukeFonFabre · Jun 22, 2007

Wiseguy said:
I'm almst afraid to ask, but who is the Masked boy?

That would actually be a huge spoiler from Mother 3, though it turns out he's one of the more popular characters in the series in Japan, and seems quite interesting in style. The only problem with his inclusion is the whole spoiler that surrounds him, so unless they aren't ever planning to release Mother 3 outside Japan, I'm not sure adding him would be a good idea.

Chief Mendez · Jun 22, 2007

WARNING! Text ahead next 500M

After a day of doing nothing but drawing, I'm about ready to collapse...but not before I blind you with a whole crap-load of words!

First thing's first...

Yay, update!

I'd like to point out that this section is taken from the first level of StarFox Assault. So we now have a Command-esque Fox and a stage from Assault. What game isn't there?
Adventures.

O D I N said:
Mendez; that moveset for Grey Fox was awesome. So awesome, I'd consider dropping Ganondorf for him. Although, I'd make his D-air a little more like Ganondorf's... or Falcon's... either or, and I'd be happy with it. Though the moveset you gave was fantastic.

Yeah, of all the movesets I've made, I'd say that one's up there in the top 5. Thanks for the compliments.

I think enough people have spikes as is, so with most of these 'sets, I try to stray away from using them. If it helps, justpicture Sheik's Dair, and you have a more accurate depiction of the move.

Drascin said:
I'm with Wisey here. I don't know why, but PD trapped me a lot more than Halo did. I actually bothered completing the challenges in PD, but I didn't even complete my first playthrough through Halo!

Also, loved the weapon design in the game. The Slayer was the MGS Nikita on steroids (pilotable missiles are ALWAYS a plus), the Maian guns were just cool (Callisto, Phoenix, Farsight), and double-intent kits like the RPG120 (I think that was the model... it's been what, seven years since I last played? Anyway, the one which was a sub-machine gun and cloaking device all in one) were aplenty.

I personally liked PD more than Halo, but the game's really hard to go back to after logging perhaps hundreds of hours into such a superior FPS...like Halo 2.

Drascin said:
I think what Mendez meant by "wasn't intended" is exactly that: it may now be a Starfox game, but it wasn't intended to be, as it wasn't really conceived as one. It was to be called Dinosaur Planet, and would star two very young anthro cats as its protagonists.

Yup, yup. It's not just that though. The game just wasn't "StarFox". It was a bad Zelda rip-off. Really, if it didn't have the SF name tied to it...I could see myself liking it.

Drascin said:
Though actually, King Mickey in his KH2 getup would be utterly, mindblowingly awesome, so very much more than Sora. Awww... See what you've done? Now you have me all sad because that's a great idea for a character which has absolutely zero chance of appearing in the game .

Seriously, King Mickey > Sora. Hell, King Mickey > Sephiroth, at least he makes sense when he speaks!

KING MICKEY FOR BRAWL!!!

Well, King Mickey wouldn't work since he hails from Kingdom Hearts (and since everyone here's anti-Sora, why should Mickey be any different). I was actually thinking of the Sorcerer's Apprentice, which is essentially the best animated short of all time.

I myself can't really picture him in Smash, but if he was, by some miracle, included, I'd have to seriously consider switching from Link to Mickey.

Drascin said:
Indeed, we megaman fans are many and vocal. But I'm with Odin here. Zero or X would be much, much cooler than original Mega (I am very biased towards MMZ version, but I'd settle for X saga Zero or original X). I mean, ley's give a bit of a comparison here. Who would you prefer to have as a fighter:

This

or this

Well, despite Zero being totally impossible, I hope at least X is an alternate costume for megaman. Or even better, powerarmor X.

Much rather "this". Not only is MegaMan 2 clearly the best game in the series, but if you're going to use a character, it should be in their most iconic form. And the Megaman Capcom uses as it's mascot is the normal Megaman.

Drascin said:
I liked Medli, I liked Makore

You mean "Makar"!? Best. Character. Ever.

Tingle for Brawl.

Drascin said:
Meh. Not really, IMHO, but hey, to each their own. If you really want to, let's say Krazoa Palace as Krystal's stage and be done with it.

That'd be fine. Just as long as there aren't any actual Dinosaurs...with scottish accents...

Drascin said:
Still prefer Presea by a longshot (petite girl able to tear trees apart with bare hands > stereotypical RPG protagonist), but Lloyd is very nice too.

Regal was way better than Presea, man. Regal was awesome.

Wiseguy said:
How would Wolf Link hinder her? I seem to recall that it was he who did most of the fighting when they teamed up in TP. I found controlling Wolf Link to be among my favorite aspects of TP personally. I didn’t find it boring at all

Wiseguy said:
Tell me – how are biting and clawing moves generic when used in combination with Midna’s magical hair and teloportaion abilities

You have a floating, magically-infused gremlin that can move through shadows, or a dog. If the Wolf is there, that means that standard attacks would be "a big bite" or "a lunge" rather than Midna clubbing an with a giant shock of hair, or electrocuting them with twilit energy.

I just don't get the appeal.

And as far as Wolf Link in TP goes, the big problem with him was that he wasn't a utility. He didn't go fast enough to warrant the lack of defense, especially when you could just hop on Epona and move about three times as quickly. After the Lakebed Temple, the only practical reason (not "I like it") you had to use the Wolf was to "sense" things or dig up useless rupess or the occasional secret cavern.

Wiseguy said:
Okay…

You haven't lived until you've fished in Hey You! Pikachu, I tell you man. It's a blast.

I actually posted that as a joke, but I am serious about the fishing. It was really neat.

Wiseguy said:
Playing Twin Snakes, I kept feeling like I had missed out on giant chucks of story (Grey Fox, Zanzabar land, the death of Big Boss, etc.)

That's why there's the Mission Briefing section in the main menu. The games weren't cinematic at all, so the write-ups in MGS will serve you fine.

Wiseguy said:
I know of Famitsu’s reputation, so that is definitely encouraging. Nintendogs was fine, but a perfect score? I think not.

But see, that's why Famitsu is so great: they don't rate things by the same standard as everything else. Most American magazines gave Nintendogs a 5 or 6 out of 10 because of it's simplicity and lack of depth, but they were judging it as the hardcore gamers they are. Famitsu has different people evaluate different games, so for Halo, they'd have their hardcore gamer review it, but for Nintendogs, they had that game's target audience: casual gamers, review it.

And really, a game that sells over 6 million copies deserves it.

Wiseguy said:
The obvious difference is that those games are non-cannon. The CD-i Zelda games have no place in the Zelda timeline. Adventures, the other hand, has a very important place in the Strfox series because it introduced a new character to the team.

But...who cares about the StarFox canon? Or the Zelda canon for that matter? Neither of those franchises have ever been concerned with it, and neither should the player. SFA was, plainly put, a StarFox game in only the loosest sense of the term.

Wiseguy said:
That’s exactly what I meant.

I think I'd rather have different characters get in that another Link. Nothing against WW Link, but it it's either him or Tingle/Midna/Vaati/Whatever, I'd definitely say the latter.

I though Brawl was supposed to be a "new game" and all that?

Wiseguy said:
Your madeup words won’t change the greatness of Starfox Adventures. The truth can’t be silenced.

PukPuk Egg.

Oh, and let's not forget how cornily excited Fox got whenever he found ANYTHING he hadn't seen before.

Wiseguy said:
Also I agree: fantastic Grey Fox moveset, Mendez. Expect to see this character in one of my future updates.

Success!

YosterDragon said:
I almost drool at the prospect of a Simon Belmont moveset.

Get a towel ready.

Simon Belmont

Melee

A - The standard whip attack. Hold the A button down to make the whip go limp, and control it by moving the control stick.

Side+A - Simon chops across his chest with his sword.
Down+A - Simon steps back a step and lashes the ground ahead of himself with his whip.
Up+A - Simon pokes his sword quickly above him.

Side Smash+A - Simon brandishes both of his weapons, bringing them down diagonally across himself. The sword has higher damage but the whip reaches farther.
Up Smash+A - Simon swirls his whip above his head, like a lasso.
Down Smash+A - Simon pirouettes, swiping his sword and whip around at his waistline.

Nair - A quick and simple karate-kick ahead of him.
Fair - Simon's whip flies straight out at a diagonally-downwards direction.
Bair - A vertical sword swipe preceded by Simon's turning around to look behind him.
Uair - Simon whips straight upwards.
Dair - Simon rockets downwards, one foot ahead. This move always sends him into a fastfall. This happens in the games when you try and slide in midair.

Grab - Simon tosses his sword to his whip hand, holding them both in one while he reaches out ahead of him. Laggy, but large range.
Grab Hit - Simon smacks his enemy in the face with the bottoms of both his weapons.

Fthrow - Tossing his enemy in front of him, Simon follows up by whipping the prone, airborne adversary three times, the third one sending them flying.
Uthrow - Simon tosses his enemy above him, then chucks an axe straight up at them. THe axe acts like Mewtwo's energy balls from his Fthrow, going through the enemy, but unlike Mewtwo, the axe will succumb to gravity, and return to earth dealing light damage to all in it's path, then clinking off the ground and disappearing.
Dthrow - The enemyis dropped to the floor, then takes a strong overhead whip to the back, sending them ricocheting upwards.
Bthrow - Simon stands the enemy behind him, then whips both arms back. His whip arm elbows the enemy, dealing damage, then his sword chops across, knocking the foe away.

Rising Attack - Rising to one knee, Simon circles his whip once around him.
Ledge Attack - After getting one foot on the ground, he swipes his sword along the ground, then whips upwards, sending those tripped up by the sword into the air even farther.

Special

B: Knife - Simon flicks a knife forwards. Hold down the button to throw three knives in sequence. The knives can't be held like Sheiks, and will fire as soon as they're fully charged or you let go of the button. Note that Simon has three separate motions, one for each knife.

Side+B: Cross - A cross that flies ahead like a boomerang, then returns to it's sender. Unlike Link's boomerang, the Cross is not stopped by hitting things, and will go a predetermined distance (no Smashing to extend the length, either) before turning around. Simon will not catch it though, and it can hit enemies behind him as well before flying offscreen. It's return trip is faster, as well.

Up+B: Griffon Wing - Also called the "Super Jump". In the games, it's used to spam certain bosses and reach new, higher-up areas. Essentially a massive, fiery uppercut, with range comparable to Samus' Spin Attack. To make it different from Falcon's Raptor Boost, though, the particle effects resemble flaming feathers.

Down+B: Holy Water - Simon tosses a glass bottle of purified water on teh ground ahead of him. Upon contact, the bottle breaks, and blue flames streak across the floor for a few feet. Even in the air, the bottle still flies at the same trajectory.

Final Smash: Grand Cross - Holy power courses through Simon's being, and is unleashed in the form of a large, fiery crucifix. The cross slowly expands, releasing shards of it's power all around it. The shards do negligible damage, but being caught in the cricifix itself deals devastating damage.

Other Elements

Taunt - Simon tosses his weapons spinning in the air above him, tosses back his hair with a "Hmph", then catches the falling objects.

Kirby Hat - Kirby dons Simon's elegant red locks, as well as his neat feathered chestplate.

Stage: Dracula's Castle - A moonlit stage atop Dracula's famed castle. There is the main platform on top os the tower, followed by two smaller ones on either side (think Pokemon Stadium). There are another two above those, and a final platform in the middle of the stage, above all the others. Skyward KOs are difficult to accomplish on this stage. There are also two platforms that just out on either side of the tower, and whenever cloud's cover the moon, the stage darkens and torches set all around the stage light themselves. Hazards could include the ever-present Medusa Heads, simple Bats, or bone-tossing skeletons.

YosterDragon said:
There was a Metroid...he was just very big. And angry.

I was actually talking about something else...

YosterDragon said:
Geno FTW!

Geno NFTW! (Not for the win)

YosterDragon said:
Here's hoping we lose the recolors and gain real alternate costumes in Brawl.

I once made a list of a bunch of characters, then made another one for alternate costumes. Some of them, like Simon, would become other characters altogether, like Richter or Julius. All in all, I had close to a hundred characters/costumes lined up. If that were to actually happen, I think my brain would explode.

O D I N said:
Mendez: I've been thinking about your moveset for Grey Fox... The taunt isn't working for me... Why not make it, "Hurt me MORE..."... ? That'd have to be relativly as annoying as Capt. Falcon's taunt, and just as menacing(?) as Grey Fox truly is.

Well...I had his first winning phrase sort of like that ("I'm losing myself!"), but I think that's a bit too dark and disturbed for Smash.

But now that I really think about it, his taunt should probably be changed. What it's at now isn't really something you'd use to enrage another player...it just sounds cool.

TDub301 said:
Yes, Perfect Dark was a way better game than Halo 2, comparatively speaking. Obviously the graphics of Halo 2 are better and it's newer and has better coding, but Perfect Dark blows Halo 2 out of the water. Anybody who disagrees isn't a fps player, just a Halo player (there are plenty of people who just play Halo and think it's God's gift to fpses when it isn't even close). Don't get me wrong, Halo 2 is fun, but it has nowhere near the depth that PD had, with all the different weapons (which each had 2 different functions) and such. And you could have bots, too, so multiplayer with up to like 16 people was possible before consoles went online. My god, I could go on all day about how PD destroys Halo 2.

I disagree, and I've spent hearty lengths of time with both. The ability to jump in Halo by itself makes so much difference.

It's sort of like the Zelda games: I absolutely loved Ocarina and ALttP when I first played them, but after playing Minish Cap and Windwaker so much, it's hard to go back.

TDub301 said:
Some of these posts are crazy long

~~Hopefully~~ Unfortunately, this one might be the longest yet...

Copperpot said:
Personally, I think Ryu Hayabusa's chances of getting into Brawl are slim to none. Sure, Snake made it, but you have to consider that Ryu is already a representative of another fighting game series on another console (Dead or Alive). Why would they give one of their roster's favorites (or at least most recognizable) away to a fighting game that is only going to draw away their customer base? The answer: they probably won't.

Simon has a better chance than Ryu ever will.

Ryu's as much a representative of DOA as Spartan 47 is. He's a Ninja Gaiden character first and foremost, just as Megaman is a Megaman character before he's a Capcom vs. Company X character.

Simon for Brawl.

Devastlian said:
I believe Cheif Mendez is referring to the game Metroid Dread, IE Metroid 5, that is supposed to be in development (and delayed a couple times) for the DS by Intelligent Systems. Here's some more info. It's definately towards the top of my E3 list alongside SSBB, SMG, MP3, and the third game from Team ICO which will be the deciding factor in my wanting to purchace a PS3.

Anyway, I just hope Metroid Dread's better than Intelligent Systems' last game. :/ :\

Indeed I was, but to my knowledge, Dread's been cancelled. It was going to be just another remake of the original, which is why I assume it was canned. And honestly, as much as I'd like a new 2D Metroid along the lines of New Super Mario Bros., I'd rather see a 3D one, after Hunters proved how well the setup works on DS.

Is...is Super Paper Mario the game you're talking about? Is there really another Paper Mario naysayer in my midst!?

O D I N said:
I'm a little surprised (in recent pages anyway) that no one has mentioned Advance Wars. While Battalion Wars was more recent (and announced for the Wii), I feel Advance Wars is certainly more popular.

Advance Wars for the win, man. I'd prefer Jake or Grit, but if any CO was picked, I'm sure it'd be Andy.

I did in fact make a moveset, as Wiseguy pointed out, but unless you're incredibly eager to see it, just know that it was made on a whim to show to Wiseguy that Andy could indeed work in Smash Bros.

Johnknight1 said:
Anyways, if MP3 doesn't come with online, maybe Retro Studios and Nintendo will make a expasion pakc (like MGS 2&3: Substinance) or have it downloadable or something. But I'm almost willing to bet it will have some sort of online function, whether on release or in the future. I'm honestly almost as excited for MP3 as I am SSBB=a lot. I'll definitely wait out side in the cold (or since it's summer the cool and nice weather) to get it.

If Ninty unveils a storage solution at Min-E3 (seriously, it's only been like, 8 months and already close to half my channel spaces are taken up!), that might be a possibility. The downloadable Tekken game on Sony's store recently got an online multiplayer mode you bought separatelyand downloaded to your PS3's HD...so anything's possible. Likely? Probably not.

JohnKnight1 said:
I mean c'mon, Halo 3 won't outsell Brawl and Galaxy, and add Prime 3, Bataleon Wars 2, and others into the mix, and you get the picture. I'm guessing by this time 2008, the Wii will outsell the 360 easily. Considering how the PS3 is basically out, considering all it's got exclusively that is good coming out is Rachet and Clank, and a few others (War Hawk looks like bad Wiimote pilot posing, and Killzone 2 will be like Killzone: NOT sell well, and get bad reviews).

Halo 3 will undoubtedly outsell every other game released this holiday season...in America (and maybe Europe). Worldwide I'm not so sure, but seriously: Halo's the undisputed champion of videogame icons in the Western world at the mo'.

Wiseguy said:
The weapons in PD were soooo unbeleiveably fun. The slayer and the laptop gun in particular were enough to strike far into the heart of the most skilled of players.

The N-Mine beats all.

Wiseguy said:
"Tingle Lingle Loo Limpa!"

"Tingle, Tingle, Kooloo Limpah!"

Sheesh, you know all the Tingle Bros., but not 'Tingle's magic words, that he created himself, so don't steal them'!?

Wiseguy said:
Maybe she could say a few words ocasionally, but I hope shr maintains the cold, sombre personality that gamers have come to associate her with. I don't want Retro to turn Samus into a chatterbox...

Yeah, I'm already a little worried by that federation captain guy who talks to Samus in the begining of that one demo...

Wiseguy said:
Geez, 3:00 am. But I'm finished!

Pah...3 o'clock. Try 5:00, you lucky punk.

Anyway...I think that's it. Longest post evar? ...Maybe for me. :psycho:

Devastlian · Jun 22, 2007

Chief Mendez said:
Indeed I was, but to my knowledge, Dread's been cancelled. It was going to be just another remake of the original, which is why I assume it was canned. And honestly, as much as I'd like a new 2D Metroid along the lines of New Super Mario Bros., I'd rather see a 3D one, after Hunters proved how well the setup works on DS.

Ya, but according to my sources (IE the references in that Wiki article) it is to be a sequel to Metroid Fusion and is still on its way after a couple of delays. It could very well be cancelled but I sure hope it isn't. As much as I like the Prime series (though I didn't really like Hunters that much), I loved the crap out of Zero Mission and don't want them to abandon the main 2-d series.

Chief Mendez said:
Is...is Super Paper Mario the game you're talking about? Is there really another Paper Mario naysayer in my midst!?

Uh-huh.

YosterDragon · Jun 22, 2007

Wiseguy said:
Okay, but regardless of their original intention, the fact remains that Dinosaur Planet was made into a Starfox game. And a pretty great one at that.

It was not Miamoto who failed us, but you Starfox Adventures haters who are failing him.

I still say that SFA is one of the best single player games on the Cube, and definitely worthy of more repsect. Space foxes and prehistoric planets go together like peanut butter and chocolate.

Sorry Wiseguy, not trying to be a hater. I've always been a Rare fanboy and a big SF fan, so no hate from me

I actually did enjoy SFA, I just think it would have been better if it had remained a unique product, that's all. Oh, and PB + Chocolate FTW indeed :chuckle:

Wiseguy said:
WAH HA HA HA HA HA HA!

Sleep tight Drascin.

"Tingle Lingle Loo Limpa!"

Man, that's just mean, you're gonna scare everyone...can't sleep, Tingle will eat me...can't sleep, Tingle will eat me :eek:

Chief Mendez said:
Yup, yup. It's not just that though. The game just wasn't "StarFox". It was a bad Zelda rip-off. Really, if it didn't have the SF name tied to it...I could see myself liking it.

That's really my only beef with the game. Having the SF franchise thrust upon it seemed unnecessary. At least the game was still fun.

Chief Mendez said:
Much rather "this". Not only is MegaMan 2 clearly the best game in the series, but if you're going to use a character, it should be in their most iconic form. And the Megaman Capcom uses as it's mascot is the normal Megaman.

Amen.

Chief Mendez said:
PukPuk Egg.

Oh, and let's not forget how cornily excited Fox got whenever he found ANYTHING he hadn't seen before.

http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=39

Chief Mendez said:
Get a towel ready.

Simon Belmont

Melee

A - The standard whip attack. Hold the A button down to make the whip go limp, and control it by moving the control stick.

Side+A - Simon chops across his chest with his sword.
Down+A - Simon steps back a step and lashes the ground ahead of himself with his whip.
Up+A - Simon pokes his sword quickly above him.

Side Smash+A - Simon brandishes both of his weapons, bringing them down diagonally across himself. The sword has higher damage but the whip reaches farther.
Up Smash+A - Simon swirls his whip above his head, like a lasso.
Down Smash+A - Simon pirouettes, swiping his sword and whip around at his waistline.

Nair - A quick and simple karate-kick ahead of him.
Fair - Simon's whip flies straight out at a diagonally-downwards direction.
Bair - A vertical sword swipe preceded by Simon's turning around to look behind him.
Uair - Simon whips straight upwards.
Dair - Simon rockets downwards, one foot ahead. This move always sends him into a fastfall. This happens in the games when you try and slide in midair.

Grab - Simon tosses his sword to his whip hand, holding them both in one while he reaches out ahead of him. Laggy, but large range.
Grab Hit - Simon smacks his enemy in the face with the bottoms of both his weapons.

Fthrow - Tossing his enemy in front of him, Simon follows up by whipping the prone, airborne adversary three times, the third one sending them flying.
Uthrow - Simon tosses his enemy above him, then chucks an axe straight up at them. THe axe acts like Mewtwo's energy balls from his Fthrow, going through the enemy, but unlike Mewtwo, the axe will succumb to gravity, and return to earth dealing light damage to all in it's path, then clinking off the ground and disappearing.
Dthrow - The enemyis dropped to the floor, then takes a strong overhead whip to the back, sending them ricocheting upwards.
Bthrow - Simon stands the enemy behind him, then whips both arms back. His whip arm elbows the enemy, dealing damage, then his sword chops across, knocking the foe away.

Rising Attack - Rising to one knee, Simon circles his whip once around him.
Ledge Attack - After getting one foot on the ground, he swipes his sword along the ground, then whips upwards, sending those tripped up by the sword into the air even farther.

Special

B: Knife - Simon flicks a knife forwards. Hold down the button to throw three knives in sequence. The knives can't be held like Sheiks, and will fire as soon as they're fully charged or you let go of the button. Note that Simon has three separate motions, one for each knife.

Side+B: Cross - A cross that flies ahead like a boomerang, then returns to it's sender. Unlike Link's boomerang, the Cross is not stopped by hitting things, and will go a predetermined distance (no Smashing to extend the length, either) before turning around. Simon will not catch it though, and it can hit enemies behind him as well before flying offscreen. It's return trip is faster, as well.

Up+B: Griffon Wing - Also called the "Super Jump". In the games, it's used to spam certain bosses and reach new, higher-up areas. Essentially a massive, fiery uppercut, with range comparable to Samus' Spin Attack. To make it different from Falcon's Raptor Boost, though, the particle effects resemble flaming feathers.

Down+B: Holy Water - Simon tosses a glass bottle of purified water on teh ground ahead of him. Upon contact, the bottle breaks, and blue flames streak across the floor for a few feet. Even in the air, the bottle still flies at the same trajectory.

Final Smash: Grand Cross - Holy power courses through Simon's being, and is unleashed in the form of a large, fiery crucifix. The cross slowly expands, releasing shards of it's power all around it. The shards do negligible damage, but being caught in the cricifix itself deals devastating damage.

Other Elements

Taunt - Simon tosses his weapons spinning in the air above him, tosses back his hair with a "Hmph", then catches the falling objects.

Kirby Hat - Kirby dons Simon's elegant red locks, as well as his neat feathered chestplate.

Stage: Dracula's Castle - A moonlit stage atop Dracula's famed castle. There is the main platform on top os the tower, followed by two smaller ones on either side (think Pokemon Stadium). There are another two above those, and a final platform in the middle of the stage, above all the others. Skyward KOs are difficult to accomplish on this stage. There are also two platforms that just out on either side of the tower, and whenever cloud's cover the moon, the stage darkens and torches set all around the stage light themselves. Hazards could include the ever-present Medusa Heads, simple Bats, or bone-tossing skeletons.

*wipes the floor with towel* Very nice work Mendez, I am indeed liking it. Never seen the Ayami Kojima rendition of Simon before, I'm more used to the old school Conan the Barbarian with a whip look :laugh:

But new is good too.

Chief Mendez said:
I was actually talking about something else...

Yeah, several people have pointed this out to me :embarrass
And now that I know, I echo your sentiments...WHERE'S MY METROID DREAD?!?

Chief Mendez said:
Geno NFTW! (Not for the win)

I think we can agree to disagree. Just so long as the S-E rep isn't Sora I'll be happy.

Chief Mendez said:
I once made a list of a bunch of characters, then made another one for alternate costumes. Some of them, like Simon, would become other characters altogether, like Richter or Julius. All in all, I had close to a hundred characters/costumes lined up. If that were to actually happen, I think my brain would explode.

Well, in that case, here's hoping your brain does indeed explode :laugh:

The Soul Calibur games have spoiled me in the way of alternate costumes, so we can indeed only hope that Brawl will follow suit.

TDub301 · Jun 22, 2007

Chief Mendez said:
I disagree, and I've spent hearty lengths of time with both. The ability to jump in Halo by itself makes so much difference.

It's sort of like the Zelda games: I absolutely loved Ocarina and ALttP when I first played them, but after playing Minish Cap and Windwaker so much, it's hard to go back.

Ryu's as much a representative of DOA as Spartan 47 is. He's a Ninja Gaiden character first and foremost, just as Megaman is a Megaman character before he's a Capcom vs. Company X character.

I've spent many hours with both as well. And please don't get me wrong, Halo 2 is fun and yes, the ability to do the absurdly large jumps does make a difference. However, Halo does not introdue anything new to the fps genre at all. It's mostly hype really. PD didn't get that much hype, yet it was so good. The different ways you could get a kill were great. Shooting through doors, setting mines, putting dow laptop guns, it was so fun. If the 360 PD was just the original PD with better graphics and bigger maps with more players, it would've been better than it ended up being.

Now with that out of the way, great moveset for Simon Belmont. I think you should incorporate some weapons like from the more recent Castlevania's (I know he wasn't in them, but I still like the idea). Like using a hammer for the foward smash or something. And I think he should do a whipwhip (like a pistol whip, but with his whip) for the downward throw. The final smash is perfect.

King Xander · Jun 22, 2007

Chief Mendez said:
Simon Belmont

Melee

A - The standard whip attack. Hold the A button down to make the whip go limp, and control it by moving the control stick.

Side+A - Simon chops across his chest with his sword.
Down+A - Simon steps back a step and lashes the ground ahead of himself with his whip.
Up+A - Simon pokes his sword quickly above him.

Side Smash+A - Simon brandishes both of his weapons, bringing them down diagonally across himself. The sword has higher damage but the whip reaches farther.
Up Smash+A - Simon swirls his whip above his head, like a lasso.
Down Smash+A - Simon pirouettes, swiping his sword and whip around at his waistline.

Nair - A quick and simple karate-kick ahead of him.
Fair - Simon's whip flies straight out at a diagonally-downwards direction.
Bair - A vertical sword swipe preceded by Simon's turning around to look behind him.
Uair - Simon whips straight upwards.
Dair - Simon rockets downwards, one foot ahead. This move always sends him into a fastfall. This happens in the games when you try and slide in midair.

Grab - Simon tosses his sword to his whip hand, holding them both in one while he reaches out ahead of him. Laggy, but large range.
Grab Hit - Simon smacks his enemy in the face with the bottoms of both his weapons.

Fthrow - Tossing his enemy in front of him, Simon follows up by whipping the prone, airborne adversary three times, the third one sending them flying.
Uthrow - Simon tosses his enemy above him, then chucks an axe straight up at them. THe axe acts like Mewtwo's energy balls from his Fthrow, going through the enemy, but unlike Mewtwo, the axe will succumb to gravity, and return to earth dealing light damage to all in it's path, then clinking off the ground and disappearing.
Dthrow - The enemyis dropped to the floor, then takes a strong overhead whip to the back, sending them ricocheting upwards.
Bthrow - Simon stands the enemy behind him, then whips both arms back. His whip arm elbows the enemy, dealing damage, then his sword chops across, knocking the foe away.

Rising Attack - Rising to one knee, Simon circles his whip once around him.
Ledge Attack - After getting one foot on the ground, he swipes his sword along the ground, then whips upwards, sending those tripped up by the sword into the air even farther.

Special

B: Knife - Simon flicks a knife forwards. Hold down the button to throw three knives in sequence. The knives can't be held like Sheiks, and will fire as soon as they're fully charged or you let go of the button. Note that Simon has three separate motions, one for each knife.

Side+B: Cross - A cross that flies ahead like a boomerang, then returns to it's sender. Unlike Link's boomerang, the Cross is not stopped by hitting things, and will go a predetermined distance (no Smashing to extend the length, either) before turning around. Simon will not catch it though, and it can hit enemies behind him as well before flying offscreen. It's return trip is faster, as well.

Up+B: Griffon Wing - Also called the "Super Jump". In the games, it's used to spam certain bosses and reach new, higher-up areas. Essentially a massive, fiery uppercut, with range comparable to Samus' Spin Attack. To make it different from Falcon's Raptor Boost, though, the particle effects resemble flaming feathers.

Down+B: Holy Water - Simon tosses a glass bottle of purified water on teh ground ahead of him. Upon contact, the bottle breaks, and blue flames streak across the floor for a few feet. Even in the air, the bottle still flies at the same trajectory.

Final Smash: Grand Cross - Holy power courses through Simon's being, and is unleashed in the form of a large, fiery crucifix. The cross slowly expands, releasing shards of it's power all around it. The shards do negligible damage, but being caught in the cricifix itself deals devastating damage.

Other Elements

Taunt - Simon tosses his weapons spinning in the air above him, tosses back his hair with a "Hmph", then catches the falling objects.

Kirby Hat - Kirby dons Simon's elegant red locks, as well as his neat feathered chestplate.

Stage: Dracula's Castle - A moonlit stage atop Dracula's famed castle. There is the main platform on top os the tower, followed by two smaller ones on either side (think Pokemon Stadium). There are another two above those, and a final platform in the middle of the stage, above all the others. Skyward KOs are difficult to accomplish on this stage. There are also two platforms that just out on either side of the tower, and whenever cloud's cover the moon, the stage darkens and torches set all around the stage light themselves. Hazards could include the ever-present Medusa Heads, simple Bats, or bone-tossing skeletons.

Woah, that would be awesome...I especially like the whole level idea, I can really imagine that being in the game.If Simon doesn't make it in the game...

Someone's going to pay...alot...

Megaman would be too much like metroid, I mean, come on, two people with guns on their hands?Metriod has those bombs, and one of Megaman's special thing that changes his gun to shoot bombs...Their just too alike, y'know?

Uh, did I do the quote thing right?It's my first quote thingy I did since I started...

Smady · Jun 22, 2007

samusrules93 said:
1. Mario
2.Luigi
3.Yoshi
4.Peach
5. Bowser
6. Wario
7./8.Samus/Zero Suit(like zelda shiek)
9.Ridley
10.Ganondorf
11.Link
12./13. Zelda?Shiek
14.Skull Kid
15.Captain Falcon
16.Fox
17.Falco
18.Wolf
19.Marth
20.Ike
21.Donkey Kong
22 Diddy Kong
23.King K Rool
24.Kirby
25.Meta-Knight
26.King Dedede
27.Pikachu
28.Jiggly Puff
29.Mewtwo
30.Deoxys
31.Captain Olimar
32.Ness
33.Balloon Fighter
34.Mr. Game @ Watch
35.Pit
36.Sonic
37.Mega Man
38.Mii
39.Snake
40.Samurai Gorah

this is what i think is likely, not what i want. though i would be pleased with this list, (no clones) i would also expect to see krystal, black knight, mach rider, (if not counted as third party) geno, dark samus, and lucario. that is 46, which is reasonable, and 44 if you count samus/zss and z/s as one each. i hope someone save me from double post
edit:nope, i have double posted. sorry

Nice list... But there are a few problems.

For one, you're including Skull Kid over Midna. As much as I love Skull Kid and want him in, he won't be in over Midna. Midna has the best chance of any new Zelda character. I wouldn't be surprised if she were the only real new character and the rest were revised models. But if Midna's in too Skull Kid would definitely stand a chance against the throw-aways like Zant and Vaati. (He won like 90-20 at the IGN poll.)

I think the most equal match-up for Skull Kid is Tingle, as hated as Tingle is. They probably will fight over the second new Zelda character spot.

You're also including Zelda/Sheik. I don't see that happening. Sheik will likely be abandoned and Zamus/Zero-Suit Samus will take her moveset. I see Zelda using her Twilight Princess rapiers and a moveset derived from her appearance in that game.

Game&Watch... Eh... He's a surprise character - but would he be a surprise in his second game? I think his place would be better suited for another Nintendo character like Bowser Jr w/Paintbrush or even Krystal. They aren't surprises, but they're needed to even out the roster with different kinds of characters. And I think if the Miis are in, they'll take G&W's place as the "surprise" character.

If you amend those things it'll be a higher score, but I personally like the idea of villains > females, but detest the idea of "classics" > recents. Wouldn't everyone prefer Bowser Jr. and Krystal over G&W and ICs? They're exciting and new! The Mii's also pretty bleh. A boring character idea. Their Super Smash attack would likely be a Mii Parade of fake Hitlers and Steve Irwins. What a sickening thought... I never liked that thing, it's more of a feature than a character.

I'll give your list... 6.5/10

And, yaa, I haven't posted here a while. This topic's gone up like fifty pages. :laugh:

King Xander · Jun 22, 2007

Here is what it would look like if Simon Belmont is NOT included and Pichu is included in Brawl.

And if I knew where NOA is, for allowing this game to get to America...

Let's see if I can get the pic right this time...

Prepare to be Astounded One Last Time: Wiseguy’s Brawl Predictions THE FINAL VERSION!

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