Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Noipoi]

Yeah, I'm so pumped to go visit that Xenoblade amusement park!

This mindset just boggles me. You think Mario has 9* characters just because it's a big franchise? It has 9 characters because it's a huge franchise where part of the appeal is the big and colorful cast of characters. Same with Pokémon. It is a gigantic franchise and its popularity comes from the variety of monsters.

The Legend of Zelda isn't in that sort of space at all. Its appeal is linked to the exploration of a huge world to find collectibles, using crafty tools and weapons to solve puzzles and slay monsters. And you do all of that as Link. The other holders of the Triforce, Zelda and Ganondorf, serve important roles in the lore but often don't show up in gameplay. Still, they rightfully deserve their place in Smash.

But beyond that? There's popular side characters alright, but none of them are even close to Ridley or K. Rool levels of popularity. And then there's Impa, the only non-one-off character in the series other than the Triforce trio and some generic enemies but... even she has her issues. First of all she's not even close to some of Mario's B– or even C–listers in terms of popularity... so why would they bother? Just because she's "next in line" for her series doesn't mean she has to take priority in general. And then there's the design discrepancies what with her appearances being split between small old lady VS nimble ninja warrior.

It may seem egregious that Zelda is stuck at 6 characters with 3 of them being derivatives of others and 1 being an alter ego that was never used beyond one single game... but it all makes sense once you put it into perspective. I'd welcome a Zelda newcomer especially with the series' recent push into mainstream, but it's not questionable why it hasn't happened till now.

The way to go about questioning is not even to compare it to Mario and Pokemon because those two have entirely different circumstances.

It’s like you can’t even make jokes in this country anymore

 

[Gengar84]

This mindset just boggles me. You think Mario has 9* characters just because it's a big franchise? It has 9 characters because it's a huge franchise where part of the appeal is the big and colorful cast of characters. Same with Pokémon. It is a gigantic franchise and its popularity comes from the variety of monsters.

The Legend of Zelda isn't in that sort of space at all. Its appeal is linked to the exploration of a huge world to find collectibles, using crafty tools and weapons to solve puzzles and slay monsters. And you do all of that as Link. The other holders of the Triforce, Zelda and Ganondorf, serve important roles in the lore but often don't show up in gameplay. Still, they rightfully deserve their place in Smash.

But beyond that? There's popular side characters alright, but none of them are even close to Ridley or K. Rool levels of popularity. And then there's Impa, the only non-one-off character in the series other than the Triforce trio and some generic enemies but... even she has her issues. First of all she's not even close to some of Mario's B– or even C–listers in terms of popularity... so why would they bother? Just because she's "next in line" for her series doesn't mean she has to take priority in general. And then there's the design discrepancies what with her appearances being split between small old lady VS nimble ninja warrior.

It may seem egregious that Zelda is stuck at 6 characters with 3 of them being derivatives of others and 1 being an alter ego that was never used beyond one single game... but it all makes sense once you put it into perspective. I'd welcome a Zelda newcomer especially with the series' recent push into mainstream, but it's not questionable why it hasn't happened till now.

The way to go about questioning is not even to compare it to Mario and Pokemon because those two have entirely different circumstances.

I feel like Hyrule Warriors and Age of Calamity show that enough people care a lot about those side characters, even if they were one-off. It’s just a gut feeling but I’ve always felt like Skull Kid and Midna’s popularity were at least on par with Ridley’s and K. Rool’s. I voted for K. Rool on the ballot but I never thought he was more popular than either of them with the general Nintendo audience.

 

[Louie G.]

It’s just a gut feeling but I’ve always felt like Skull Kid and Midna’s popularity were at least on par with Ridley’s and K. Rool’s. I voted for K. Rool on the ballot but I never thought he was more popular than either of them with the general Nintendo audience.

Yeah, it hinges on context mostly. Prior to his inclusion in Smash I’m pretty certain both of these characters were more widely popular to the general market. But since the fan favorites in Ultimate were plucked from the Ballot, it’s reflective of the more hardcore audience of dedicated Smash fans.

For that matter, I think weighing these both out is pretty important. Someone like Skull Kid being moderately popular within the Smash crowd and quite popular and recognized within the general Nintendosphere does make him an easy sell in a vacuum. We’ll have to see which one ends up being more important, although inclusion of the latter usually also hinges on some sort of recent activity or prevalance. So getting him or Midna in the game probably does boil down to how vocal that community support is.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I just got a cool idea for Ditto as a playable fighter: At the start of every match, and every stock, Ditto transforms into a random other opposing character. If everyone picked Ditto, then a random character is selected before the match begins, and subsequent transformations are based off of those previously selected characters.

Essentially, it's a mirror match character that takes advantage of having multiple players in a match. The character pool should always be characters that are currently in memory, so in theory it shouldn't cause problems having to load things in.

How about not Ditto, but Master Shadow?

 

[SharkLord]

View attachment 389518
Nintendo considers these 4 to be their core franchises, But the Animal Crossing character representative is somewhat inconsistent.
I think Isabelle is more likely to come back than Villager though, Cause she's like an actual character and not just an Avatar.
But like, 8 slots, These four series 100% take half of them.

Also Donkey Kong is probably gonna stay. Like on an objective level he is way more recognizable than most Nintendo characters, He has his own series so he's not just a Mario character.
And like, The Mario Movie happened.
The fight between Mario and DK was a big thing in that movie, I think they would want to capitalize on that,

I feel like there's a weird bias against avatar characters in speculation that isn't really reflected in the actual games. The avatars are the player character in, like 95% of every game with an avatar. We have a nondescript Villager and a nondescript Inkling as our first Animal Crossing and Splatoon characters; there's no real reason to drop 'em just for "not being an actual character."

Granted, we did get Pikachu as our first Pokemon rep over the Pokemon Trainer, but in that case the Pokemon themselves are the ones doing the actual fighting. AC has no combat to speak of but you're still only controlling the Villagers (I think?), and with Splatoon your avatar is jumping headlong into the fray. And either way, it's also a nondescript Pikachu, one of a species instead of a single character.

I dunno, I don't think the Smash devs give much of a crap if they're adding an avatar instead of a hard-set character. Usually whatever you're playing as is the main character and therefore the most logical thing to put in Smash, so what's the big deal?

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

I think if Smash was made today it would just have a Mario Kart roster basically. Inkling, Link, and Isabelle/Villager are already the guests in Mario Kart 8. I think it would just be like, most of the Mario characters in Smash + Toad, and then Link, Isabelle, Villager, Inkling, Kirby, Mii, maybe Samus for the non-Mario characters, possibly a retro pick thrown in like ROB as well.

 

[SPEN18]

since Star Fox is somehow still considered a fairly important Nintendo IP internally

As long as Miyamoto still cares about it, it will have a chance. His influence is still important; this goes for Pikmin as well.

I also think Nintendo knows the SF cast is still very marketable as well if they can just put the right game around it.

 

[SharkLord]

I've been to the Nintendo Japan store and I think a good bet would be most of the games that got the main focus there

• Mario, Splatoon, Zelda, and Animal Crossing characters were on the big wall plaque you see going in.
• Pikmin were also scattered through the plaque and hidden throughout the store, but also specifically Pikmin and nothing else from the series. They're given focus, but not as much as the current Big Four
• Donkey Kong, Yoshi, Kirby, and Metroid all got their own little sections in the store.
• I think there was also a section for Xenoblade Chronicles, but I don't quite remember
• The big omissions were Pokemon and Fire Emblem, which are undeniably major pillars nowadays but just didn't get a section dedicated to them. My guess is that The Pokemon Company and Intelligent Systems might be handling their respective series, but we also got Kirby in there despite being made by primarily by HAL Labs. I dunno, those two series would definitely be in a modern Smash but they just weren't in the store

But anyways, if we got smaller, rebooted Smash roster that was primarily based on modern Nintendo - Something like, 30 to 40 characters - I'm sure it would primarily be based on those ten-twelve franchises

 

[HyperSomari64]

I've been to the Nintendo Japan store and I think a good bet would be most of the games that got the main focus there

• Mario, Splatoon, Zelda, and Animal Crossing characters were on the big wall plaque you see going in.
• Pikmin were also scattered through the plaque and hidden throughout the store, but also specifically Pikmin and nothing else from the series. They're given focus, but not as much as the current Big Four
• Donkey Kong, Yoshi, Kirby, and Metroid all got their own little sections in the store.
• I think there was also a section for Xenoblade Chronicles, but I don't quite remember
• The big omissions were Pokemon and Fire Emblem, which are undeniably major pillars nowadays but just didn't get a section dedicated to them. My guess is that The Pokemon Company and Intelligent Systems might be handling their respective series, but we also got Kirby in there despite being made by primarily by HAL Labs. I dunno, those two series would definitely be in a modern Smash but they just weren't in the store

But anyways, if we got smaller, rebooted Smash roster that was primarily based on modern Nintendo - Something like, 30 to 40 characters - I'm sure it would primarily be based on those ten-twelve franchises

Pokémon has the Pokémon Centers, but Fire Emblem is the only absence. There are no pop up stores from what I rememver.

 

[Louie G.]

feel like there's a weird bias against avatar characters in speculation that isn't really reflected in the actual games. The avatars are the player character in, like 95% of every game with an avatar.

I put a degree of separation between what I want and what I believe Smash will do. Sakurai has made it clear he doesn’t mind adding avatar characters. Personally, I view the roster as a melting pot of personalities and I prefer characters I can project more of a concrete identity toward. That is more valuable to me in a crossover, whereas playing as an avatar doesn’t do as much for me. Isabelle is a favorite Nintendo character of mine, the Villager isn’t. It’s also why I’d have rather seen something like Edelgard over Byleth, although in that case I have attachment to neither.

I don’t really think it’s productive to say Villager would or wouldn’t be cut over Isabelle since the both of them are damn near guaranteed to come back. They literally appear right next to each other on that Nintendo Store Tokyo mural. But I can just say personally I get more out of playing as Isabelle, and I think had the cards been dealt differently she and/or Tom Nook could have theoretically done okay on their own. But it’s not as if I’d go out of my way to cut Villager now, or that I don’t understand why he was chosen. I just might have had different priorities if I were director.

The big omissions were Pokemon and Fire Emblem,

For what it’s worth, both of these have a presence in Nintendo NYC. Pokemon has quite a lot of merch there, and I’ve definitely seen a few of the Fire Emblem plushies.

 

[SharkLord]

Pokémon has the Pokémon Centers, but Fire Emblem is the only absence. There are no pop up stores from what I rememver.

Yeah, I wasn't sure if IntSys woudl be able to run their own stores. It's a really weird absense, because Fire Emblem's always done pretty well in Japan last I checked, and especially nowadays it's gotten decently big in general. You'd think we'd get something in there, like a Marth statue or the Falcion or whatever.

I put a degree of separation between what I want and what I believe Smash will do. Sakurai has made it clear he doesn’t mind adding avatar characters. Personally, I view the roster as a melting pot of personalities and I prefer characters I can project more of a concrete identity toward. That is more valuable to me in a crossover, whereas playing as an avatar doesn’t do as much for me. Isabelle is a favorite Nintendo character of mine, the Villager isn’t. It’s also why I’d have rather seen something like Edelgard over Byleth, although in that case I have attachment to neither.

I don’t really think it’s productive to say Villager would or wouldn’t be cut over Isabelle since the both of them are damn near guaranteed to come back. They literally appear right next to each other on that Nintendo Store Tokyo mural. But I can just say personally I get more out of playing as Isabelle, and I think had the cards been dealt differently she and/or Tom Nook could have theoretically done okay on their own. But it’s not as if I’d go out of my way to cut Villager now, or that I don’t understand why he was chosen. I just might have had different priorities if I were director.

Yeah, that's fair. I don't mind people having preferences, but I feel like I've seen a couple posts acting like avatars inherently get less priority from the devs, when that's clearly not accurate

 

[TheQuester]

What stages do you think are likely for the next game and what stages do you think aren't as likely or not likely at all even that you'll think they could add?

Also, btw, Multiversus just announced a character that it's getting more hate than Piranha Plant got back in the day when it was announced lol.

 

[JOJONumber691]

But that's the thing: He was already the fan request going into Brawl, at least one of them. Back then you couldn't go on any forum without fans talking about the character, whether it be GameFAQs, Smashboards, hell, even now defunct forums like IGN or other Nintendo forums. Ridley was one of the most speculated characters from pre-Brawl's era, he never relied on his appearances to be that prominent.

Additionally, you're overplaying how good the boss appearances were for Ridley. A big point often brought up against the character is that he would be better as a boss, fans had to argue time and time again that he can be playable and being a boss doesn't have to be his only identity. So once Brawl did just that, twice no less, that actually hurt discussion around him as those against the idea had a Smash game they can use as evidence for him remaining a boss.

Finally, there's a bit of subjectivity at play here. You're pushing that his boss appearances were both good, but I remember at least base Ridley's Brawl appearance being more criticized. The cutscenes are good at showing his brutality, but the actual fight was considered more lacking. His tail is only used as a swipe across the field, his fireballs are completely absent, and the cruelty and brutality that was in that cutscene almost completely disappears. Hell, some went as far as to call him a Master Hand or Dyna Blade clone because of how little felt unique to him, it was not completely well received. Meta Ridley was liked, though many hated the trophy hunt you had to do for him.

In short, you're overestimating Brawl's influence here. The character already had a strong support base going in, he had a strong history in his franchise to sell him to many skeptical of him, and his Brawl boss appearances were at best a double-edged sword for getting more attention on the character.

I will say that Ridley feels a little underwhelming because the character who was so notorious for being considered too big by Masahiro Sakurai himself is somehow lighter than Samus. Tbh should’ve been as big as he is usually depicted in Classic Mode bro needs a Super Mushroom to feel complete.

 

[Perkilator]

Yeah, I wasn't sure if IntSys woudl be able to run their own stores. It's a really weird absense, because Fire Emblem's always done pretty well in Japan last I checked, and especially nowadays it's gotten decently big in general. You'd think we'd get something in there, like a Marth statue or the Falcion or whatever.

Yeah, that's fair. I don't mind people having preferences, but I feel like I've seen a couple posts acting like avatars inherently get less priority from the devs, when that's clearly not accurate

Considering the success of FEH, then I would've liked to at least see IntSys do PV's featuring animegao kigurumi of Alfonse, Sharena, and other FEH OC's.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Since Animal Crossing got brought up, definitely feeling like we're gonna get a third character next game since New Horizons is literally the third best selling game on the Switch behind MK8DX and Ultimate. It's not the only reason (Animal Crossing becoming a huge staple of Nintendo's brand is another), but yeah.

Kinda feeling Tom Nook is most likely out of anyone tbh, just kinda hoping Animal Crossing doesn't go the Star Fox route and make everyone a semi-clone of the original character (though it would also be hilarious if people could legitimately refer to Tom Nook as "the Wolf of Animal Crossing characters" lol)

 

[BritishGuy54]

The next Smash game discourse will be just this, won’t it?

 

[BuckleyTim]

Also, btw, Multiversus just announced a character that it's getting more hate than Piranha Plant got back in the day when it was announced lol.

On one hand I get that adding the Banana Guard is kinda just being weird for the sake of weird (and in a really benign way to boot), but on the other I don't think I can bring myself to actually care about anything Multiversus does beyond a simple "huh". I already care too much about which fighter gets into the dumb nintendo baby party game, if I applied this mindset to the WB live-service one I'd have ulcers for years on end.

 

[fogbadge]

Pokémon has the Pokémon Centers, but Fire Emblem is the only absence. There are no pop up stores from what I rememver.

which i funny as FE's shop keep pop up every where

 

[Perkilator]

What stages do you think are likely for the next game and what stages do you think aren't as likely or not likely at all even that you'll think they could add?

As far as stages that I feel are likely:

• Flower Kingdom (Mario Wonder)
• A new stage based on Mario Kart 8 Deluxe
• Great Sky Island (Tears of the Kingdom)
• Ferenia (Metroid Dread)
• A new Kirby stage from Forgotten Land
• A new Pokémon stage
• A stage based on WarioWare: GiT
• Sun-Speckled Terrace (Pikmin 4)
• A stage based on Animal Crossing: New Horizons
• A stage based on Xenoblade Chronicles 3
• A staged based on Splatoon 3

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

As far as stages that I feel are likely:

• Flower Kingdom (Mario Wonder)
• A new stage based on Mario Kart 8 Deluxe
• Great Sky Island (Tears of the Kingdom)
• Ferenia (Metroid Dread)
• A new Kirby stage from Forgotten Land
• A new Pokémon stage
• A stage based on WarioWare: GiT
• Sun-Speckled Terrace (Pikmin 4)
• A stage based on Animal Crossing: New Horizons
• A stage based on Xenoblade Chronicles 3
• A staged based on Splatoon 3

I would love if the Flower Kingdom occasionally had Wonder Flowers appear like how Materia does on Midgar, and when a player touches it it alters the stage with one of a good number of Wonder Effects, randomly selected.

Also if it were up to me, the new Kirby stage would probably end up being Lab Discovera or Alivel Mall, but the former is mostly just because I want people who have no context of Kirby to be like "what do you mean this is a Kirby stage".

 

[superprincess]

View attachment 389521

It’s like you can’t even make jokes in this country anymore

Oops, didn't realize it was a joke, sorry

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

View attachment 389521

It’s like you can’t even make jokes in this country anymore

Welcome to the Internet, my friend

 

[Wonder Smash]

I think they should bring back Captain Falcon's old victory theme, which is basically the Goal Fanfare from F-Zero X.

As for Ness, they should either bring back Smiles and Tears or Mother Earth.

I do agree with the Captain Falcon them but I like Ness's current theme the best.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

The starting 8:


Unlockable 4:
[Noah]

I think this an option. It’s probably boring and basic. But it represents current Nintendo the best, with a grand total of one newcomer.

This roster is so small, that there’s not enough room for Donkey Kong.

Not to be unpleasant, but Fire Emblem and Xenoblade (or Metroid for that matter) being more important to Nintendo and its audience than DFK is 100% Nintendo forum dweller bias.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Not to be unpleasant, but Fire Emblem and Xenoblade being more important to Nintendo and its audience than DFK is 100% Nintendo forum dweller bias.

I don't remember a Nintendo franchise named Dig ****ing Kun.

 

[TheQuester]

As far as stages that I feel are likely:

• Flower Kingdom (Mario Wonder)
• A new stage based on Mario Kart 8 Deluxe
• Great Sky Island (Tears of the Kingdom)
• Ferenia (Metroid Dread)
• A new Kirby stage from Forgotten Land
• A new Pokémon stage
• A stage based on WarioWare: GiT
• Sun-Speckled Terrace (Pikmin 4)
• A stage based on Animal Crossing: New Horizons
• A stage based on Xenoblade Chronicles 3
• A staged based on Splatoon 3

Seems about right!
The splatoon 3 stage could be Alterna.

 

[Noipoi]

I want the next Smash to have some screwball stages. Like Miiverse or Electroplankton, Y’know? Real weirdo stuff.

Ultimate had a lot of cool new stages but they were mostly focused on giving new characters a home stage. Which is radical, but I wanna see them get wacky again.

 

[fogbadge]

I want the next Smash to have some screwball stages. Like Miiverse or Electroplankton, Y’know? Real weirdo stuff.

Ultimate had a lot of cool new stages but they were mostly focused on giving new characters a home stage. Which is radical, but I wanna see them get wacky again.

Pokemon smile

 

[Noipoi]

Pokemon smile

I’ve always wanted to battle inside a mouth

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I’ve always wanted to battle inside a mouth

words

 

[TheQuester]

I want the next Smash to have some screwball stages. Like Miiverse or Electroplankton, Y’know? Real weirdo stuff.

Ultimate had a lot of cool new stages but they were mostly focused on giving new characters a home stage. Which is radical, but I wanna see them get wacky again.

Ultimate was a special game, i think they'll go back to giving us unexpected stages like Brawl and Smash 4 in the next game.
I am still surprised Electroplakton got a stage in Brawl, tho lol.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I'm trying to think of possible options for a wacky stage like Miiverse or Electroplankton, but outside of Snipperclips maybe I'm drawing a total blank on wacky games made during the Switch era. Maybe that's just a me thing, since I don't really count things like Miitopia because despite being a goofy game, the locations would be played pretty straight for a Smash stage.

 

[RileyXY1]

I've already made my idea for a trimmed down Smash roster. This roster does not account for potential newcomers, and there are no third parties. I posted a similar roster earlier, but I decided to add King Dedede and Greninja.



Robin got to stay as the second FE rep due to how big Awakening was for the series, Isabelle stayed due to how big Animal Crossing is, and Captain Falcon, Ness, and Pit all stayed due to how much Nintendo likes to acknowledge their games despite them not getting any new ones in over a decade.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I was trying to think of WTF Switch era possibilities for stages and came to the doomsday scenario of 1-2 Switch and Everybody 1-2 Switch stages in SSB.

A Smash level with horsehead guy prominently featured is scarcely worth thinking about.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I'm trying to think of possible options for a wacky stage like Miiverse or Electroplankton, but outside of Snipperclips maybe I'm drawing a total blank on wacky games made during the Switch era. Maybe that's just a me thing, since I don't really count things like Miitopia because despite being a goofy game, the locations would be played pretty straight for a Smash stage.

The Bunny Rope Challenge stage

 

[fogbadge]

The Bunny Rope Challenge stage

right as I was going to suggest it

 

[Gorgonzales]

I was trying to think of WTF Switch era possibilities for stages and came to the doomsday scenario of 1-2 Switch and Everybody 1-2 Switch stages in SSB.

A Smash level with horsehead guy prominently featured is scarcely worth thinking about.

HIS NAME IS HORACE SHOWPONY

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

HIS NAME IS HORACE SHOWPONY

View attachment 389527

Okay but the fact that we could legitimately get a Spirit or a Trophy of Horace Showpony from Everybody 1-2 Switch is kind of hilarious to me lol

Especially Spirits, we had Spirits of pretty much everything.

 

[Noipoi]

Okay but the fact that we could legitimately get a Spirit or a Trophy of Horace Showpony from Everybody 1-2 Switch is kind of hilarious to me lol

Especially Spirits, we had Spirits of pretty much everything.

Easier to snatch some PNGs than to make hundreds of models

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Easier to snatch some PNGs than to make hundreds of models

Very true, but I do hope if we get Spirits back, we also get the little descriptions back like Trophies did. It'd be a lot of writing, but I prefer Trophies just because of the little blurbs about them. Spirits just kinda felt very plain to me, like "here's a PNG of a character, that's it".

Should mention I like most other things about Spirits, like being able to upgrade some into stronger forms and Spirit battles and stuff, I just wish looking through the Collection of like 1500+ Spirits wasn't so dull lol