Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

True Young link is cool too!
Toon link is just sadly the better choice!
And believe me if i was biased i would make LAR Link the small smash link!
But toon link is in like 10 games!

I definitely don't think they would do Link's Awakening Remake Link as the token "smol Link"

It's not just because Toon Link is in more games but rather that this Link cannot fit the "Link but child" mold since he's not a child, only chibified

 

[Gengar84]

NO!
Just NO!
Lana or Cia are already be bad enough but linkle? The genderbent Link and Tingle hybrid!
NOOOOO!
We already have two slots for Link himself at minimum! Unless you are suggesting we cut Toon Link for her? Not a great plan!
I think Hyrule Warriors representation is best as just moveset inspiration!
There are so many charcters/ Designs from normal zelda that i dont think we should use the game were every girl character gets a More Skin Showing redesign?

Im fine with AOC Impa as shes atleast a version of a canon Impa! But Linkle? Nah i don't think we have to dig that low!

BTW i thought about something Characters like marx or Linkle have the issue while some won't them others (justifiably) have issues with their Inclusion so focusing on Characters that make everyone happy is ideal!

I will say that Lana is my friend’s number one most wanted of any character for Smash, not just from Zelda. My own most wanted Zelda character is the Impa specifically from Hyrule Warriors. I do understand the feeling that people wouldn’t want an exclusive spinoff character when the series is under represented from a character standpoint. I feel like if Zelda had at least 6 unique characters already, a lot of people would be more open to the idea of a Warriors character. I think Volga and Wizzro would actually make for some awesome Smash characters down the line.

As Verde said, Linkle isn’t a genderbent Link. If I remember correctly, she’s a girl who grew up idolizing Link so she modeled her persona after him. I’m not seeing the Tingle connection other than the fact that they’re both silly characters that wear green.

 

[fogbadge]

there was even a point where she was going to be link's sister but that gig was taken

 

[DarthEnderX]

As Verde said, Linkle isn’t a genderbent Link.

It's what she was designed to be. They just wrote a different background for her in HW.

I’m not seeing the Tingle connection other than the fact that they’re both silly characters that wear green.

I think maybe it's the name. It might be a portmanteaux of Link and Tingle.

 

[Gengar84]

It's what she was designed to be. They just wrote a different background for her in HW.

I think maybe it's the name. It might be a portmanteaux of Link and Tingle.

Oh yeah I guess her name is kind of similar now that i think of it. Still, they’re two very different characters.

As far as the genderbent Link argument, it’s true that it was the initial concept for the character but it’s not what they ended up going with in the final game. Since Linkle debuted in Hyrule Warriors as her own unique character, I don’t think it’s really fair to still classify her as a genderbent Link.

Either way, I’m not super invested in the character but I do think she could be fun. I think Wizzro is my favorite fully unique Hyrule Warriors character, followed by Volga. I’d just love to see that game get some kind of content, even if it’s just music.

 

[smashkirby]

Definitely Arle with Carbuncle assist. Carbuncle is one of my favorite things about the series and I believe Arle would feel incomplete without him. In what capacity I'm not sure - the possibilities are pretty endless. He can thrust forward for some disjointed attacks, I imagine that would be the basis. But he's also got some magic abilities of his own that can be peppered in. Perhaps he can use some sort of confusion beam to temporarily stun opponents. More than anything though, we need him to dance around and make silly faces when he's not doing anything.

As for Amitie and Ringo, they shouldn't be the priority, but depending on how Arle's kit is designed they may be able to slot in as echo fighters or skins. If her moveset is dominantly Puyos and some magic then it's possible. I really don't want her to be watered down just to accommodate for it though, since they're all very dynamic characters that deserve to shine individually. If the option is Amitie gets to be playable too but Carbuncle can't be in the moveset then I would opt for Arle + Carbuncle any day.

Although, as an aside, these cute figures exist where Amitie and Carbuncle get to buddy up.

And I dunno, maybe Ringo can substitute out Carbuncle for... an apple? Hey, I'm trying.

Interesting! I don't think I made it clear when I asked this, but personally? I'd love for the playable Puyo rep to be Arle Nadja w/ Carbuncle. For that matter, I see Carby doing just about whatever he wants, be it helping out in attacks (tilts, smash attacks, special moves, etc.), attacking randomly with absolutely NO input from Arle (well, the player, but you get what I mean), or just doing a goofy dance/straight-up sleeping.

As for Amitie and Ringo... well, I agree. They probably shouldn't be made the focus. In terms of them being Arle's echoes/alt. skins... it would feel pretty odd that Arle's character would have to be watered down for their sake, so I'm good with Arle and Carbuncle. However, maybe they can be part of Arle's F.S.?

 

[CannonStreak]

Oh yeah I guess her name is kind of similar now that i think of it. Still, they’re two very different characters.

As far as the genderbent Link argument, it’s true that it was the initial concept for the character but it’s not what they ended up going with in the final game. Since Linkle debuted in Hyrule Warriors as her own unique character, I don’t think it’s really fair to still classify her as a genderbent Link.

Either way, I’m not super invested in the character but I do think she could be fun. I think Wizzro is my favorite fully unique Hyrule Warriors character, followed by Volga. I’d just love to see that game get some kind of content, even if it’s just music.

Yeah, Linkle is pretty much her own character. I don’t really think she is the incarnation of the hero of time or whatever as she thinks even. I still would like to play as her in a Smash Bros. game.

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

I think Amitie could work as an echo depending on how Arle ends up, and it would be nice to represent a Puyo character from a later generation. If she's mostly Puyos then they have similar powers and their animations could be the same. If Carbuncle is more of an aesthetic role it could work, but I'd rather he be more incorporated as an actual attacker, and if Arle has more traditional RPG Madou elements beyond her primary spells than that would also be a hinderance.

Imo the most interesting Puyo characters to do after Arle would be Schezo, Satan, and Ecolo. Satan especially I think could be really fun, in the RPG games he has a lot of cool magical powers

Really wish this game was fully translated beyond a let's play. Madou Monogatari 4 is finally coming out with Sega working on it, so maybe that can get a Western release at least lol.

Schezo also has some cool moves in this game. I think in general while Arle should obvs primarily focus on the puzzle aspect, it would be really nice if she had some of her RPG kit in there. A lot of her spells in Puyo are based on the original series anyways, so could definitely naturally round out her moveset with it.

 

[Oracle Link]

I definitely don't think they would do Link's Awakening Remake Link as the token "smol Link"

It's not just because Toon Link is in more games but rather that this Link cannot fit the "Link but child" mold since he's not a child, only chibified

Not necesarily it seems as if nintendo Retconned that Link (ALTTP, LA, The Oracles)
To be atleast a teen!
Just look how he looks on the artwork:

Compared to the original he looks 2 years younger! They also used young links voice in four swords port of vA link to the past! So it seems like they retcon the top down links from adults into Teens/ Kids!

I will say that Lana is my friend’s number one most wanted of any character for Smash, not just from Zelda. My own most wanted Zelda character is the Impa specifically from Hyrule Warriors. I do understand the feeling that people wouldn’t want an exclusive spinoff character when the series is under represented from a character standpoint. I feel like if Zelda had at least 6 unique characters already, a lot of people would be more open to the idea of a Warriors character. I think Volga and Wizzro would actually make for some awesome Smash characters down the line.

As Verde said, Linkle isn’t a genderbent Link. If I remember correctly, she’s a girl who grew up idolizing Link so she modeled her persona after him. I’m not seeing the Tingle connection other than the fact that they’re both silly characters that wear green.

You might have misunderstood me...
As Linkle is in hyrule warriors shes fine and relativly unique!
I laughed my ass of when Her Big Final fight was against an enemy that started links journey!
I still dont think she makes sense per se! Although yeah she would be much less bad an inclusion if we keep Link, Small Linbk, Zelda, MAYBE Sheik, GAni
and then have like Yunbo, Skull kid and impa!

 

[fogbadge]

Not necesarily it seems as if nintendo Retconned that Link (ALTTP, LA, The Oracles)
To be atleast a teen!
Just look how he looks on the artwork:
View attachment 389513
Compared to the original he looks 2 years younger! They also used young links voice in four swords port of vA link to the past! So it seems like they retcon the top down links from adults into Teens/ Kids!


You might have misunderstood me...
As Linkle is in hyrule warriors shes fine and relativly unique!
I laughed my ass of when Her Big Final fight was against an enemy that started links journey!
I still dont think she makes sense per se! Although yeah she would be much less bad an inclusion if we keep Link, Small Linbk, Zelda, MAYBE Sheik, GAni
and then have like Yunbo, Skull kid and impa!

what are you talking about he always looked like that

 

[Oracle Link]

what are you talking about he always looked like that

He definitly looked diffrent and imo a bit older!

 

[Gorgonzales]

If it isn't Link, or should I say.... STINK!!!

(But for real I wouldn't want Linkle or anyone that remotely looks like Link as the next Zelda rep, I really just want anyone else at this point because Ult had enough Link for a liftetime)

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

(But for real I wouldn't want Linkle or anyone that remotely looks like Link as the next Zelda rep, I really just want anyone else at this point because Ult had enough Link for a liftetime)

No. We need more:

• Link
• Toon Link
• Young Link
• Linkle
• Wolf Link & Midna
• Classic Link
• Bunny Link
• Dark Link
• Split Links

With this many Links, the community will have enough to build a fence to keep out those awful awful Fire Emblem characters.

 

[Louie G.]

For what it's worth, I'd prefer Toon Link, but I wouldn't mind them opting for something like "Classic Link" styled akin to how he looked in the 90s pre-64 or close to that ALBW look. With BOTW Link likely sticking around, I think it'll be important to maintain some kind of standardized Link moveset... especially if they have any intention of exploring what was introduced in TOTK. Not counting so much on that, but the point stands either way.

Toon Link works on this front also, but it would be a bit of a shame if the version of the character with some of the most unique potential ended up locked into the role of "normal" Link. I suppose it's probably that or nothing, but it feels a bit wrong to see the main version of Link become further deviated from the standard, catch-all Link moveset and not allowing the other version to grow. Just an unfortunate fact we probably have to accept, though.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

We still need three Links.
Modern Link - Link
Classic Smash Link - Young Link
Toon Link - Toon Link

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

We still need three Links.
Modern Link - Link
Classic Smash Link - Young Link
Toon Link - Toon Link

Revolver Ocelot - Revolver Ocelot

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Revolver Ocelot - Revolver Ocelot

Makes enough sense to me.

 

[DarthEnderX]

No. We need more:

• Ravio
• Link
• Toon Link
• Young Link
• Linkle
• Wolf Link & Midna
• Classic Link
• Bunny Link
• Dark Link
• Split Links

Fixed.

 

[Gengar84]

Was that skeleton that taught Link his sword techniques in Twilight Princess supposed to be a Link from another era? I always got the impression that’s what they were going for and my memory is pretty fuzzy at this point (both regarding the game and in general lol).

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Was that skeleton that taught Link his sword techniques in Twilight Princess supposed to be a Link from another era? I always got the impression that’s what they were going for and my memory is pretty fuzzy at this point (both regarding the game and in general lol).

It's officially OoT/MM's Link, the hero of time.
Poor guy can't catch a break.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Nintendo’s biggest franchises: Mario, Pokemon, and Zelda.

Mario gets 8 characters. Pokemon gets 8 characters. Zelda has 6.

We gotta pump those numbers up. Two more characters next game.

Impa and Ganon. The most logical and consistent choices. Revamp Ganondorf while we're at it.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I just got a cool idea for Ditto as a playable fighter: At the start of every match, and every stock, Ditto transforms into a random other opposing character. If everyone picked Ditto, then a random character is selected before the match begins, and subsequent transformations are based off of those previously selected characters.

Essentially, it's a mirror match character that takes advantage of having multiple players in a match. The character pool should always be characters that are currently in memory, so in theory it shouldn't cause problems having to load things in.

 

[Gengar84]

Impa and Ganon. The most logical and consistent choices. Revamp Ganondorf while we're at it.

As long as Ganondorf can keep his current appearance as an alt costume, I’ll gladly welcome a revamped moveset. If not, that can always be addressed with mods down the line so I guess I’m good either way.

I just got a cool idea for Ditto as a playable fighter: At the start of every match, and every stock, Ditto transforms into a random other opposing character. If everyone picked Ditto, then a random character is selected before the match begins, and subsequent transformations are based off of those previously selected characters.

Essentially, it's a mirror match character that takes advantage of having multiple players in a match. The character pool should always be characters that are currently in memory, so in theory it shouldn't cause problems having to load things in.

That’s actually a really cool idea and probably simple enough to implement. My brother and I had a fun idea for a Zoroark along somewhat similar lines. Basically, you can hold a certain button when selecting any character on the roster. If you held it, the match starts as normal with the selected character but when you take a set amount of damage, the character automatically transforms into Zoroark for the rest of the match. Zoroark would also be a normal character on the select screen and selecting it this way would start the match as Zoroark from the beginning without the transform gimmick.

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

So I have been thinking about this hypothetical alot, Even though it’s something that would never happen.
So the idea is, They make a new Smash game, But it has the same roster structure as Smash 64.
So 8 starting characters, Plus 4 unlockable characters who have to reuse assets from the first 8.
Also no 3rd Party characters allowed (Except Bayonetta because she’s basically 2nd Party at this point.)
It’s interesting to think about what characters would be chosen in the present with such a small size, To represent all of Nintendo.

 

[BritishGuy54]

So I have been thinking about this hypothetical alot, Even though it’s something that would never happen.
So the idea is, They make a new Smash game, But it has the same roster structure as Smash 64.
So 8 starting characters, Plus 4 unlockable characters who have to reuse assets from the first 8.
Also no 3rd Party characters allowed (Except Bayonetta because she’s basically 2nd Party at this point.)
It’s interesting to think about what characters would be chosen in the present with such a small size, To represent all of Nintendo.

The starting 8:


Unlockable 4:
[Noah]

I think this an option. It’s probably boring and basic. But it represents current Nintendo the best, with a grand total of one newcomer.

This roster is so small, that there’s not enough room for Donkey Kong.

 

[Gengar84]

The starting 8:


Unlockable 4:
[Noah]

I think this an option. It’s probably boring and basic. But it represents current Nintendo the best, with a grand total of one newcomer.

This roster is so small, that there’s not enough room for Donkey Kong.

I feel like DK is too historically important to leave off. I’d probably cut Villager for DK and leave Isabelle as the Animal Crossing rep. Otherwise, I feel like this list is pretty spot on. You could argue using Marth and Shulk over Byleth and Noah but that’s mostly just a preference of whether you’d rather support the original protagonist or promote the newest entry.

 

[fogbadge]

It's officially OoT/MM's Link, the hero of time.
Poor guy can't catch a break.

and officially the ancestor of TP's link

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

Nintendo considers these 4 to be their core franchises, But the Animal Crossing character representative is somewhat inconsistent.
I think Isabelle is more likely to come back than Villager though, Cause she's like an actual character and not just an Avatar.
But like, 8 slots, These four series 100% take half of them.

I feel like DK is too historically important to leave off. I’d probably cut Villager for DK and leave Isabelle as the Animal Crossing rep. Otherwise, I feel like this list is pretty spot on. You could argue using Marth and Shulk over Byleth and Noah but that’s mostly just a preference of whether you’d rather support the original protagonist or promote the newest entry.

Also Donkey Kong is probably gonna stay. Like on an objective level he is way more recognizable than most Nintendo characters, He has his own series so he's not just a Mario character.
And like, The Mario Movie happened.
The fight between Mario and DK was a big thing in that movie, I think they would want to capitalize on that,

 

[Freduardo]

Two Bonus Zelda characters?

I'm going with Vaati, cause I never gave up on him....

And....

Impa.

 

[Louie G.]

So I have been thinking about this hypothetical alot, Even though it’s something that would never happen.
So the idea is, They make a new Smash game, But it has the same roster structure as Smash 64.

I think the reality is a roster of 12 characters doesn't really fly by today's standards. Even Nick All-Star Brawl, made on a shoestring budget, released with 20 characters at launch. I understand this is a complete fantasy hypothetical, but I just don't think it'd be defensible to release with that little content in today's market - even if we were to assume this was somehow the first ever Smash Bros game. I'd say 20-24 characters is about as small as it gets.


‎
‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎

This is about as conservative as I can imagine a roster being today if it were crafted under similar conditions that gave us Smash 64's roster. Marth and Shulk are just general inserts for Fire Emblem and Xenoblade respectively. I'm also disregarding certain characters who are not in Smash yet, so I suspect a newer Pokemon or Tom Nook could be among this bunch too. Maybe Octoling as a clone, although I expect they might just split the alt colors if we're stating from scratch.

And that's also ignoring Nintendo's / Sakurai's affinity for surprise retro pulls, I can see anything from Little Mac, Pit or Excitebiker being in the cards since they are pretty standard NES nostalgia pulls. I can see Fox making the cut too as sort of a fringe legacy pick, since Star Fox is somehow still considered a fairly important Nintendo IP internally. All of that to say it seems pretty unlikely we'd see a roster that sparse nowadays. But here's what it might look like if we did, with some obvious glaring omissions in the process:




And frankly, I'm not that confident in this. Does Pokemon Company even let Pikachu even happen nowadays, if this was the first ever roster? Kirby probably gets a pass because of Sakurai, but does Marth miss the boat on account of being more of a "second party" rather than an in house Nintendo franchise? I look toward something like Nintendo Land and wonder if that paints a more accurate picture.

If we need the breakdown... Luigi is a Mario clone, Marth is built off Link, Olimar is built off Mario. And then I guess Samus gets to be built off your hypothetical Dragon King base, since she ends up sharing a couple moves and animations with Falcon in 64 anyway.

 

[BritishGuy54]

I feel like DK is too historically important to leave off. I’d probably cut Villager for DK and leave Isabelle as the Animal Crossing rep. Otherwise, I feel like this list is pretty spot on. You could argue using Marth and Shulk over Byleth and Noah but that’s mostly just a preference of whether you’d rather support the original protagonist or promote the newest entry.

I left DK off to give the spotlight to other Nintendo franchises. Plus the prompt needed the unlockable characters who could be based off from the starting fighters.

Plus there’s a fair argument for picking any of the current Xenoblade protagonists to be the face of the series.

Shulk is the original.
Pyra/Mythra are the most popular, even to this day.
Noah is from the most recent game.

It’s less easy to pick between these compared to Fire Emblem as Xenoblade’s legacy is very much still in the making.

Kirby probably gets a pass because of Sakurai, but does Marth miss the boat on account of being more of a "second party" rather than an in house Nintendo franchise?

Could this be insinuating that Xenoblade ends up as the premier swordfighter franchise over Fire Emblem in this scenario for Smash?

 

[Noipoi]

I left DK off to give the spotlight to other Nintendo franchises.

Funny, Nintendo does the same thing

 

[Louie G.]

Funny, Nintendo does the same thing

Yeah, I'm so pumped to go visit that Xenoblade amusement park!

 

[Gengar84]

It’s a shame too because the original DKC trilogy were such great games and I felt Tropical Freeze was a great reboot. Too bad the sales didn’t quite match the quality and reception.

 

[ninjahmos]

I think they should bring back Captain Falcon's old victory theme, which is basically the Goal Fanfare from F-Zero X.

As for Ness, they should either bring back Smiles and Tears or Mother Earth.

 

[AreJay25]

It’s a shame too because the original DKC trilogy were such great games and I felt Tropical Freeze was a great reboot. Too bad the sales didn’t quite match the quality and reception.

To be fair to Tropical Freeze, it was released on the Wii U during one of its driest periods, which meant it just wasn't going to do all that great in the environment it was placed in. The Switch version seems like it did pretty decently all things considered.

 

[Louie G.]

As for Ness, they should either bring back Smiles and Tears or Mother Earth.

Pet peeve of mine is that they went through the effort to redo the Mother victory theme in Ultimate, only to give Ness and Lucas the same thing instead of giving them game-specific victories like Fire Emblem and Xenoblade now have. The Smiles and Tears / Theme of Love options are so obvious, especially because Ness had the former for two games already. Missed opportunity, but a lot of victory themes are anyway.

 

[superprincess]

Nintendo’s biggest franchises: Mario, Pokemon, and Zelda.

Mario gets 8 characters. Pokemon gets 8 characters. Zelda has 6.

We gotta pump those numbers up. Two more characters next game.

This mindset just boggles me. You think Mario has 9* characters just because it's a big franchise? It has 9 characters because it's a huge franchise where part of the appeal is the big and colorful cast of characters. Same with Pokémon. It is a gigantic franchise and its popularity comes from the variety of monsters.

The Legend of Zelda isn't in that sort of space at all. Its appeal is linked to the exploration of a huge world to find collectibles, using crafty tools and weapons to solve puzzles and slay monsters. And you do all of that as Link. The other holders of the Triforce, Zelda and Ganondorf, serve important roles in the lore but often don't show up in gameplay. Still, they rightfully deserve their place in Smash.

But beyond that? There's popular side characters alright, but none of them are even close to Ridley or K. Rool levels of popularity. And then there's Impa, the only non-one-off character in the series other than the Triforce trio and some generic enemies but... even she has her issues. First of all she's not even close to some of Mario's B– or even C–listers in terms of popularity... so why would they bother? Just because she's "next in line" for her series doesn't mean she has to take priority in general. And then there's the design discrepancies what with her appearances being split between small old lady VS nimble ninja warrior.

It may seem egregious that Zelda is stuck at 6 characters with 3 of them being derivatives of others and 1 being an alter ego that was never used beyond one single game... but it all makes sense once you put it into perspective. I'd welcome a Zelda newcomer especially with the series' recent push into mainstream, but it's not questionable why it hasn't happened till now.

The way to go about questioning is not even to compare it to Mario and Pokemon because those two have entirely different circumstances.

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

So I have been thinking about this hypothetical alot, Even though it’s something that would never happen.
So the idea is, They make a new Smash game, But it has the same roster structure as Smash 64.
So 8 starting characters, Plus 4 unlockable characters who have to reuse assets from the first 8.
Also no 3rd Party characters allowed (Except Bayonetta because she’s basically 2nd Party at this point.)
It’s interesting to think about what characters would be chosen in the present with such a small size, To represent all of Nintendo.

I think I got my list.
Mario, Donkey Kong, Link, Isabelle, Inkling.
Kirby and Pikachu are just too popular not to have, I'm assuming that this wouldn't be the first Smash game in this hypothetical, This is just an insane timeline where they decide to make the roster extremely small in Smash 6.
Final starter character pretty much has to be Fire Emblem. I think a lot of other series could get this spot, But Fire Emblem just has the factor of sheer consistency. Like I can confidently say that the next Nintendo console will have Fire Emblem no matter what, And the one after that, And the one after that.
Might as well just go for Marth, Give him a Final Smash where he teams up with Alear, Just to represent the new ones.

As for the unlockable ones, Luigi is easy cause like, He's Luigi.
Insane choice coming up but, Linkle from Hyrule Warriors. I feel like it's hard to justify this one but like, Nintendo keeps doing new Warriors games with Koei Tecmo, I think it would be logical to think they would do more. So even though Warriors is technically a third party series, It crosses over with Nintendo properties so often that it kind of makes sense. And Linkle is a Nintendo character. She's a fan favorite too, So as a weird pick I think she would work.
Olimar, No elaboration required.
And Z from Xenoblade 3. I know this isn't the obvious Xenoblade choice, But I want a Villain in here somewhere, And he seemed like a good choice.

I could very easily change my mind on all of this by the way.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Impa and Ganon. The most logical and consistent choices. Revamp Ganondorf while we're at it.

Ganon is exactly what he should be. A Boss.