Meta Zero's Advice: General Matchup Q&A

[Locke 06]

Haven't played many decent Marios, but I will say characters with reflectors aren't as bad of a matchup as people make them to be. Lemons should still be your bread and butter, with a healthy dose of Fair and Bair. Mix in some Dtilts and Dash attacks plus a good shield/roll/grab game, and you should be fine. Avoid Fsmash like the plague. I'd say it's 55:45 in Mario's favor, since he does shut down a portion of Mega's game (Fsmash, Metal Blade, and Crash Bomb) while leaving all his options open.

Rush canceling really hampers his low% ground game. And lemons stop fireballs.

Something that might be useful is leaf shield... Because Marios love being at really close range.

 

[ADAPT Chance]

I agree that the Leaf Shield can help in the match up since Mario is constantly trying to get in and harass.

One thing is your spacing needs to be 100% on point in this match up other wise Mario will just keep Mega Man guessing.

 

[Z1GMA]

How can we punish/bait the cape?

There's a small period of time at the end of the cape that doesn't reflect. A perfectly timed Fsmash get's the job done.
However, a good Mario can cape it on pure reaction so I'd honestly recommend not gambling.
I Believe lowpower projectiles are more practical Vs him.

 

[Yeezy]

I have a friend that mains a very strong Mario so I have alot of experience in this matchup - I'd like to say that most of the other posters in this thread hit the nail on the head with this matchup - it seems to be all about spacing. If you are too far, he can outcamp you with the cape and fireballs, and if you're too close he has a superior Dsmash and Fsmash, in addition to a killthrow and heavy combo potential. Space him with lemons and if he whiffs a smash you can punish with a Dthrow ->Fair or just Fsmash.

If you get him off the stage you can definitely ledgeguard him pretty hard. His Fair spike has some significant windup time so you can anticipate whether or not he started it early enough -> if so, wait for the animation to finish and back off or upB to look for another attack, and if not you can make him eat a quick Bair for the kill. Note that the Bair is extremely difficult to cape away so if he keeps going for the cape to cover his landing you'll win the ledgeguard game more than not. Megaman's ledgeguard game is unreal with MB's, Fmash, and Bair so make sure you never make it easy for him to get back to the stage and don't be afraid to go deep for Bairs

Same thing if he gets you off the stage - megaman's Fair is faster than Mario's spike so you can race him to get your hit in first. He can dodge your Fair backwards and follow it up with a spike so make sure you don't overcommit to the Fair. If he jumps with his back to you when ledgeguarding, recover low because he can't stage spike you when facing that way. Then you can look for a Bair to punish with.

Overall, most of my kills in this matchup come from Bair (seems that way with everyone). He can cape your Fsmash but if you use it sparingly and only as a punish it'll really help lead you into the lethal Bairs. If he's dodge-happy and looking for a Dsmash, space so his dodge lands right next to you and hit him with your own Dsmash. Dodging constantly is a very proactive strat and can be reacted to/punished if you play spacing smart.

Edit: I think this matchup is 55:45 or 60:40 in favor of Megaman mostly because you can force Mario to play proactively and we can actually beat him in the air (except his Uair, just rush or metal blade if you're above him).

 

[Locke 06]

@ Yeezy
Thanks for the great write up. Two questions I have are covering your landing after rush or whenever you're above Mario and if there's a way to play aggressively against Mario.

For the first question, even after I rush cancel on Mario's dthrow or utilt combos, I have trouble respacing.

For the second, I think having a somewhat decent aggressive game can allow you to control the pace of the match more instead of just waiting for Mario to approach. I've been messing around with z-drop metal blades and FAirs (which are actually extremely safe on shield if spaced correctly), but I was wondering if you had any thoughts on pressuring Mario up close.

Other than those, I feel like we've answered most of the questions about this matchup.

 

[Yeezy]

I find that when I'm harassing Mario with lemons I can still take shots with MB's every once in awhile and those tend to be my combo openers that lead into a dash attack, Dtilt, or a dash/boost grab, which lead into more chances for Bairs and Fairs if dash/Dtilt can connect. If you time the dash correctly he won't be able to shield grab it because you'll spin to his backside, same thing with Dtilt. The beauty is that you don't ever really *have* to approach him but in the games I've played against Marios they start to leave the dashes, Dtilts, and grabs wide open for you once they begin to commit to approaches and get tagged by MB's. Also I'm not sure if this is common knowledge yet but when almost all characters are at 60%ish or less your Dthrow will combo into a Fair and then into a read - if they jump up you can Uair, if they fall away you can Fsmash, or if they don't react/go for a Dair/crossup you can fastfall into Usmash. Sometimes you can even connect with a sweetspot Utilt, not sure what the prereqs are on whether that connects or not.

Zdrop or diagonally thrown MB's can combo into Utilt, Dtilt, or a landing Bair or Fair. This is what I like to go for when you have to rush cancel and you're hovering over Mario. Fortunately, I never feel unsafe in the air with Megaman because his horizontal mobility and Rush Coil are so strong at keeping you away from your enemy for a safe landing even if you can't get MB's to land. You can always fastfall off the side of the stage to the ledge/Rush Coil back to the ledge if you've got it as a failsafe if you need to.

Obviously this is coming from my extensive matchups against one good Mario and a few mediocre ones online. If anyone has any issues with this writeup I'd be glad to discuss it because I'm sure there are a few Mario players that feel like they have some advantages that I haven't hit.

*edit* I haven't been able to work leaf shields into my gameplay in a really productive way but I feel like some of the shorthop leafshield techs others have discussed would impact this matchup and allow megaman to punish a pointblank fireball with a grab similar to how Little Mac eats poorly timed projectiles with his dash attack

 

[Abortion Doc]

Mario matchup can be tricky, I tend to favor harassing him with lemons at midrange, since his cape doesn't accomplish anything against them. Throw in a surprise metal blade or CB here and there, but don't abuse them. Use Fsmash sparingly, and to state the obvious: never charge it. Mario's back air can give you trouble but if he's facing you, both your fair and bair have him solidly beat. I typically aim to get Mario offstage where I can try to gimp his lackluster recovery, so throws come in handy to give you those opportunities. Also, rush cancel out of his early dthrow>uptilt combo to save you a ton of percent he would normally get for free on other characters.

Not too difficult a matchup I'd say. Getting kills is probably the hardest part, so try to be creative with your tools. Danger wrap > Crash bomb in this matchup imo.

 

[GHNeko]

I've always felt that not being afraid to go in with low damage projectiles and using uncharged fsmashes from time to time to either condition the Mario to cape a lot or not cape at all is a big thing.

From my experience, I've had people CP mario against me in hopes of sending a message that generally says, "I have the cape. Where is your god now?" in hopes of stifling Mega's arsenal.

But by keeping up the firepower sans charged Fsmashes, you're kinda of countering that "mental pressure" as if to say, "You have a cape. What of it?"

Harassing Mario with lemons regardless of his cape frequency will probably mentally seal or reduce his cape usage and normalizes the match up, I think.

I'm not sure if it was mentioned, but keeping your lemon usage to 2 per burst protects you from cape spam since the first reflected lemon will be canceled by the non-reflected lemon behind it.

This can send the message that cape isnt as effective as the Mario thinks and that I can still shot lemons at my digression.

Keeping lemon burst at 3 can work if you start shooting late into the cape since usually by the time the 3rd pellet reaches, it'll hit mario, but against an early cape, you'll end up shooting yourself. So it can turn into a delicate tug-of-war whens switching from 2 per burst and 3 per burst.

But I feel that when you successfully do this, you'll restrict cape usage if not seal it entirely.

 

[Sleek Media]

I've been a Mario main since 64, and have taken up Megaman and Rosalina as dual secondaries. To be honest I haven't seen any Marios as good on For Glory as mine, and no Megamen either (there arent many to begin with). For what it's worth, here's my best advice from what I've seen on both sides of the matchup.

Yes, Mario can cape most of Megaman's kit, but the timing is much more strict than it was in Brawl or Melee. This means that you can more easily anticipate the exact moment he might cape. The cape is also more punishable than it has ever been, so Mario has a lot of incentive not to spam it. If a Mario does attempt to spam it, just grab him and start a dThrow combo. He will stop spamming very quickly, opening up your options. General reflector rules also apply. Feel free to throw crash bombs and metal blades one after the other since the first will cancel the second out. The cape is also unable to defend against jab shots of you fire all three. Finally, Mario can and will use the cape to both recover and stall in the air. Keep that in mind when in pursuit.

Mario is a combo character with poor range. His problem has always been mid range spacing and becoming predictable by virtue of few options. You can Rush Cancel the combos, taking away his major strength. He should also be unable to gimp you (preserve your mid air jump until you absolutely need it just in case you get bAir'd while using Rush). Don't try to out-box him - pressure him with crash bombs and metal blades at mid-range and force him to come in at a trajectory you can read. Never roll into him. Mario relies on his smashes and gimping for KOs, and only his bThrow will KO at higher percents. Don't be afraid to get grabbed with your back to the edge. As always, you can take advantage of his landing lag to get off uncharged mega busters. Mario will likely spent a lot of time in the air, so be sure to punish him. Also, look out for his dAir...it's great for poking, and has a rather large hitbox on the bottom now. Feel free to chase him offstage. Pretty much any attack will finish him. Just remember that super jump punch is invulnerable at the start.

 

[Locke 06]

Alright. I feel pretty good about this matchup. I'll write up a compiled report when I get around to it, we can vote on how we think the matchup will go (50-50/40-60 etc.), and we'll move on to the next one. Ideas for who to do next?

 

[BBC7]

Alright. I feel pretty good about this matchup. I'll write up a compiled report when I get around to it, we can vote on how we think the matchup will go (50-50/40-60 etc.), and we'll move on to the next one. Ideas for who to do next?

I think it's a solid 50:50, pellets are more than enough to deal with Mario although he shuts off a lot of our moveset as revenge for our pellets working so well.

Next discussion should either be:
Luigi
Captain Falcon
Yoshi

 

[Smog Frog]

50/50 because they have the cape and we have the rush cancel, both are equally useful tools to have against each other

 

[Yeezy]

I say 60:40 Megaman over Mario due to rush cancel and how we completely have the option to not play into the cape and still force Mario to take uncomfortable initiatives. I think people on the Megaman forums are still underestimating just how good Megaman is at high levels of play.

and we should discuss matchups in the order of most commonly used competitive characters - Sheik, ZSS, Greninja, and Rosalina

 

[SSGuy]

55:45 Mega Man.
-We have too many tools to just say cape will outright shut us down. Mario has overwhelming combos but doesn't get to capitalize early percent thanks to Rush Coil.
-Mario has overall short range while Mega Man has a quick disjointed fair, very reliable jab and really handy metal blades.
-Mega Man is heavier than Mario and will live longer in certain scenarios.
-Mario is easy to gimp/short hop. (I suggest practicing your foot-stooling for Little Mac as well)

 

[Sleek Media]

Trying to assign a ratio is silly, and one of the bad habits this community needs to break. It's slightly in Megaman's favor. Neither one has a very solid approach against the other, but Megaman's camp game is a bit more effective in this matchup.

 

[BBC7]

Trying to assign a ratio is silly, and one of the bad habits this community needs to break. It's slightly in Megaman's favor. Neither one has a very solid approach against the other, but Megaman's camp game is a bit more effective in this matchup.

Every fighting game community does this though, it gives a general idea of which characters are difficult and which aren't by applying ratios to scale the level of difficulty in the match-up. It's not really silly because it gives a quantitative idea of the match-up rather than a qualitative one. For example, saying something like "Ryu has a 70:30 match-up against Dan" is better than saying "Ryu can defeat Dan easily" because it's more informative. I hope this makes sense.

 

[---]

While I'm remembering, a while back a certain someone from a private part of the forum mentioned this in their analysis of MM:

MM's biggest advantage is that unlike Mario, MM's options are constant throughout the entire stock. Mario is strong early on and then suddenly has to land the kill and, without a fireball approach, can't quite get it without a read.

Not sure if it holds up completely, but it's worth mentioning.

 

[Smog Frog]

I say we do Yoshi next, seems to be the most viable of the original 12

 

[Yeezy]

I can get on board with Yoshi

...but I still want to make sure we hit Sheik and ZSS soon, those are important matchups based on the playrates I'm seeing

 

[Kiyosuki]

I'd really love Yoshi.

He's crazy tough in this game. He just punches lemons out of the way left and right. lol And that dair... Yoshi's just really scary in this game his rushdown honestly freaks me out a bit more than Sheik or ZSS.

 

[Nu~]

You should do Pac-Man. With one of the best and most unpredictable projectile games that smash has ever seen, and one of the only characters to counter sheik, he's going to be a big threat. (I main Pacman , with megaman as one of my Secondaries, so I can be of assistance)

 

[BromVanBrunt]

I'd love to see a Yoshi analysis.

 

[tmonty17]

I am relatively new to smash boards so this is my first post. I consider myself above average when it comes to smash and I win more than I lose.

I've come across some pretty tough match ups and in most cases if the person is consistently beating me, it will at least be a close match. One character that has just brutalized me harder than anyone else on multiple occasions is a good Yoshi.

I don't know what it is but when I go against a really good Yoshi I feel completely helpless. His eggs are relentless, his Fsmash is quick, hard to punish, and does decent damage, if you try to keep him at midrange he will get you with his tongue and unlike other ranged grabs like Link or Samus, Yoshi's grab is so quick that if he misses it's still really tough to punish. His Dair spike can KO around 40% if you're near the edge, and if someone decides to play a campy Yoshi then it's an entire different level of frustrating.

I don't mind losing to players that are better than me but I'm really just wondering if anyone else has had the same issues against good Yoshis. Emphasis on "good Yoshis" because I run through Yoshis with ease most of the time.

 

[Cudea]

How do u guys do against duck hunt? I think this match up is very interesting as metal blade can go through ALL his projectiles. Been winning against the dog but how is the matchup going for you guys?

 

[Sleek Media]

Duck Hunt doesn't seem to be a problem. MB to break his rhythm, CB and regular shots to keep him off balance and vulnerable to grabs, slides, etc. If he gets you in a bad position, Just RC around until the wall breaks.

Yoshi is strong, but he's alot like Mario. It's very easy to keep your distance, so control the pace of the match and let him make a mistake. There's no need to try and shoot eggs out of the air or whatever unless you're in some kind of emergency.

 

[tmonty17]

Yoshi's egg spam makes it really difficult to win the spacing battle. Even at a medium range a good Yoshi is chucking eggs at me way faster than I can dish out projectiles.

 

[Sleek Media]

Why don't you powershield the eggs? They are incredibly easy to avoid if you just want to keep your distance instead.

 

[tmonty17]

Why don't you powershield the eggs? They are incredibly easy to avoid if you just want to keep your distance instead.

I can avoid the eggs all day but the problem I was running into is that when I was approaching I would get caught up in avoiding the eggs whether it was shielding, dodging, rolling, etc. and as soon as I got in a decent position I'd get grappled or I'd roll right into his down smash that hits on both sides.

Basically from what I've gathered the only way to get around this is by being campy and forcing Yoshi to come to me. That's probably exactly why I was getting thrashed so hard. I would get impatient and go on the offensive and by doing so I was doing exactly what they wanted. I just loathe campy play styles but that's just how it goes sometimes.

 

[Sleek Media]

It sounds like you just need general experience with positioning and reading. Play lots of matches and you'll become more certain of when certain options are safe or not.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

How about a Samus match up analysis after Yoshi's? Still new to Smash and am pretty comfortable using Megaman (still things I'm learning to apply well) but I had a rather hard time in the Samus match up (and the Yoshi match up).

 

[AirShad]

Anyone have any advice for Falco? His reflector is a major pain. I can't really get in close on him because of it and my projectiles are almost useless. I don't want to play campy but it seems like that's how I have to play. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Locke 06]

Alright. I haven't touched the Mario matchup write up, but...

-YOSHI DISCUSSION IS OFFICIALLY OPEN-

Starter question: What do we do well that gives Yoshi the most problems?

 

[BromVanBrunt]

Alright. I haven't touched the Mario matchup write up, but...

-YOSHI DISCUSSION IS OFFICIALLY OPEN-

Starter question: What do we do well that gives Yoshi the most problems?

I'm not certain about any of this, as I'm not particularly experienced in any matchup, but off the top of my head, I think this matchup ultimately comes down to keeping Yoshi at just the right distance. At long range, Yoshi's eggs have more impact than our projectiles, and their arcing trajectory prevents lemon-blocking. In a straight-up brawl, his rushdown is brutal. We want to stay close enough that he can't spam us out with eggs, but not so close that we're in range of his tongue initiation.

Once we find that sweet spot, I think it's a matter of maintaining spacing with lemons and Metal Blade. Yoshi works best, so far as I know, either as an up-close rushdown character or a Duck Hunt Duo style camper (switching from one to the other as appropriate, of course). If we can stay just out of tongue range, we should be able to punish any attempt to toss eggs, and kite him to death if he attempts to close for melee. We can prevent him from making use of either of his strongest ranges.

I actually think Mega Man might be in a unique position to exploit this, as Mega Man's mid-range playstyle is pretty much the only one in the Smash roster. It will by no means be easy - taking a step too close can result in heavy punishment against a character with such brutal melee options - but I think it can be done.

 

[ChopperDave]

I need to play more good Yoshis, but at this point I would say this match-up is either 50/50 or maybe even 55/45 in favor of Mega Man.

The reason is that we have some very effective ways of edgeguarding against Yoshi once he's off stage.

I know I'm carving myself out a niche as the "Leaf Shield" guy on these forums, but LS really kills Yoshi's ability to go for a ledge grab. If you think he's going to recover to ledge, all you have to do is fire up LS, run off the stage, and snap to ledge grab.

Your invincibility frames will protect you from anything Yoshi can throw at you, and the leaves will hitstun him out of his double jump and attacks, preventing him from grabbing the stage. (His super armor protects him against knockback, not hitstun.) From there it's just a simple matter of following up with a bair or footstool to seal the stock.

Also, unlike other characters, Yoshi doesn't get his full UpB recovery back after a footstool-- IIRC, he has to land on stage to get his "egg bounces" back. So he's quite susceptible to footstool gimps.

I've done this against a lot of scrubbier Yoshis and it just plain works. After a while they learn that they HAVE to recover high against you if they don't want to get gimped, which makes them predictable and easier to smack around with bairs and uairs. Sometimes I'll just activate a LS and jump up and down to spook them -- if they recover high, I full hop air dodge at them to get a few hits and kill their momentum, giving myself a chance at a follow up, and if they recover low I do the ledge gimp.

The inverse is not true for Yoshi -- our ability to fast fall at high speeds, cover our recoveries with projectiles, instantly gain height from Rush, and attack after our UpB makes us a lot more unpredictable and difficult to edge guard.

There's a lot more to this match up, of course, and Yoshi has a really nasty rushdown game to deal with on the stage. But our offstage and ledge guarding game is plainly superior to his, IMO.

 

[Locke 06]

I need to play more good Yoshis, but at this point I would say this match-up is either 50/50 or maybe even 55/45 in favor of Mega Man.

The reason is that we have some very effective ways of edgeguarding against Yoshi once he's off stage.

I know I'm carving myself out a niche as the "Leaf Shield" guy on these forums, but LS really kills Yoshi's ability to go for a ledge grab. If you think he's going to recover to ledge, all you have to do is fire up LS, run off the stage, and snap to ledge grab.

Your invincibility frames will protect you from anything Yoshi can throw at you, and the leaves will hitstun him out of his double jump and attacks, preventing him from grabbing the stage. (His super armor protects him against knockback, not hitstun.) From there it's just a simple matter of following up with a bair or footstool to seal the stock.

Also, unlike other characters, Yoshi doesn't get his full UpB recovery back after a footstool-- IIRC, he has to land on stage to get his "egg bounces" back. So he's quite susceptible to footstool gimps.

I've done this against a lot of scrubbier Yoshis and it just plain works. After a while they learn that they HAVE to recover high against you if they don't want to get gimped, which makes them predictable and easier to smack around with bairs and uairs. Sometimes I'll just activate a LS and jump up and down to spook them -- if they recover high, I full hop air dodge at them to get a few hits and kill their momentum, giving myself a chance at a follow up, and if they recover low I do the ledge gimp.

The inverse is not true for Yoshi -- our ability to fast fall at high speeds, cover our recoveries with projectiles, instantly gain height from Rush, and attack after our UpB makes us a lot more unpredictable and difficult to edge guard.

There's a lot more to this match up, of course, and Yoshi has a really nasty rushdown game to deal with on the stage. But our offstage and ledge guarding game is plainly superior to his, IMO.

I really like the Leaf Shield vs the ledge grab idea. However, I'm pretty sure Yoshi's super armor also protects from hitstun. I hard knuckled a yoshi during his double jump and nothing happened except he took percent.

I'll put this out there, lemons and MB's stop any side-B approach from him, so that move is essentially useless. His eggs have more range than our lemons, and are very versatile at keeping you out of lemon range. Even in your lemon range, the eggs can still pose a problem and knock you out of it. The spacing you want is close enough that you interrupt the eggs, but not so close that he can jab/tilt you. In the aerial game, you want to be in front of him and maybe a little higher so that his only option is NAir, which is beaten by FAir and BAir. If he pivot jumps on you (RAR), the BAir has about as much range as ours and the flutter kick is... well, it hurts if it lands.

Yoshi's big kill move is his upsmash and he's got a really good running upsmash (and will probably have a really good DACUS). It also has enough upward range to hit you on BF platforms.

Also, the Yoshi I faced had a decent edge guarding game. He can't go as deep as us, but the multi-hit BAir can pose problems when trying to recover low, and if you recover high, he's higher than you and willing to use the FAir spike. He's not useless of the stage, I still think we have the advantage, but it's not as much of an advantage as say, the Mario matchup.

 

[BromVanBrunt]

Super armor in general seems to be a real recurring problem in matchups for Mega Man. He relies so much on being able to control spacing between himself and his opponent; take away his ability to do that via invincibility frames, and he's in some serious trouble.

Not that it's an instant loss for us to go up against super-armored opponents or anything. Just seems like it's worth noting. Competitive Mega Man mains will probably want to find out exactly what moves give their opponents super armor and adjust their play accordingly.

Everyone wants to do that, of course, but the cost of not doing it is much higher for Mega Man. Mess up your spacing and you're gonna get punished hard, so make sure you don't try and go for lemon harass at the wrong time.

 

[ChopperDave]

I really like the Leaf Shield vs the ledge grab idea. However, I'm pretty sure Yoshi's super armor also protects from hitstun. I hard knuckled a yoshi during his double jump and nothing happened except he took percent.

I'll put this out there, lemons and MB's stop any side-B approach from him, so that move is essentially useless. His eggs have more range than our lemons, and are very versatile at keeping you out of lemon range. Even in your lemon range, the eggs can still pose a problem and knock you out of it. The spacing you want is close enough that you interrupt the eggs, but not so close that he can jab/tilt you. In the aerial game, you want to be in front of him and maybe a little higher so that his only option is NAir, which is beaten by FAir and BAir. If he pivot jumps on you (RAR), the BAir has about as much range as ours and the flutter kick is... well, it hurts if it lands.

Yoshi's big kill move is his upsmash and he's got a really good running upsmash (and will probably have a really good DACUS). It also has enough upward range to hit you on BF platforms.

Also, the Yoshi I faced had a decent edge guarding game. He can't go as deep as us, but the multi-hit BAir can pose problems when trying to recover low, and if you recover high, he's higher than you and willing to use the FAir spike. He's not useless of the stage, I still think we have the advantage, but it's not as much of an advantage as say, the Mario matchup.

Hm. I think it's worth testing a little when Yoshi gets Super Armor and how much it protects him, as I've definitely hit stunned him out of it. I think it's usually toward the end of the double jump animation or after he tries to attack, so maybe he loses the Super Armor at one of those points.

Leaf Shield is definitely good for edge guarding him if he's trying to egg bounce to the ledge, that much I'm certain. There's really not much he can do to you in that situation.

I'd also be curious to see whether his double jump protects him against a footstool gimp. My intuition is that it probably does, and that if we try to footstool him while he's jumping we'll get the jump and nothing will happen to him (sort of like what happens if you footstool the initial frames of an Up Special). I might be wrong, though.

 

[iiGGYxD]

I've just skimmed the posts here so sorry if it was mentioned before but I have a few tips in the yoshi mu.

Lemons do clash with eggs, though it can be hard to block them out with how small lemons are. Against a yoshi that is egg campy, space yourself right at the end of lemon range and when you see them commit to throwing an egg run under them. From here they'll have the recovery of the egg toss leaving them open to uairs from you. This is mainly for when they full hop egg, which i see most yoshis prefer over grounded egg toss. If they are staying low to the ground though it's usually easier to connect lemons to hit out the eggs anyways.

Always be ready for the b reverse tongue when they are trying to get down from the air. That's really their only way to mixup their landing and you do not want to be hit by that as they usually get a free upsmash on you while your in an egg.

 

[Sleek Media]

I want to mention general use of Leaf Shield again. I've been having very good results using it to defend against opponents who are trying to punish landing lag. It's also critical to keep it running in the Sonic matchup, which is nightmarish otherwise.

 

[Locke 06]

I've just skimmed the posts here so sorry if it was mentioned before but I have a few tips in the yoshi mu.

Lemons do clash with eggs, though it can be hard to block them out with how small lemons are. Against a yoshi that is egg campy, space yourself right at the end of lemon range and when you see them commit to throwing an egg run under them. From here they'll have the recovery of the egg toss leaving them open to uairs from you. This is mainly for when they full hop egg, which i see most yoshis prefer over grounded egg toss. If they are staying low to the ground though it's usually easier to connect lemons to hit out the eggs anyways.

Always be ready for the b reverse tongue when they are trying to get down from the air. That's really their only way to mixup their landing and you do not want to be hit by that as they usually get a free upsmash on you while your in an egg.

Just faced a pretty campy Yoshi. Kept running out of lemon range to throw an egg and used the fact that it drops to cover pursuit. Had to inch my way in/back him to the edge. Spacing a defensive Yoshi is tough. :/