Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[Rickster]

@ Macchiato I love both your Avi and the seemingly endless supply of gifs

Yay I'm listed as notable........good!

Hey Ed! Good to see you haven't abandoned our Queen!

 

[Rizen]

Because this.

Farore's Wind IS a very good recovery move. It has good range and is decently flexible by going in 8 different directions. However, it is still a recovery that can be punished despite her turning invisible. You can easily stage spike her if you catch her recovering too low and if you time it right. This goes for all teleport recoveries in general, and does hurt such characters once opponents know this fact.

As a killing option, it is great! But it isn't and will never be a very reliable kill move. With proper DI it actually really isn't that strong, and you can DI the first hit. Zelda players have to be wary of this as well as the potential of whiffing the move completely to react on time, or else they will whiff FW and get punished greatly. It's definitely the move that makes Zelda scary, but it really isn't her actual best move IMO.

To be fair, any ledge snap is vulnerable to that. There's no foolproof recovery but Farow's is one of the best. This also complements her entire offstage game including Dair. With a different upB, say Marth's dolphin slash, Zelda would be much more limited offstage. I mean she couldn't go far from the stage and throw out laggy aerials/phantom.
Farow's is one of the few upBs that works outside its traditional upB purposes. Elevator is scary but escapable, no argument there. Zelda also can simply reappear in place or to the side to escape which is only punishable with a hard read. This makes it a decent space resetting tool. The 2nd hit alone can KO from a good distance and can be aimed- another valuable trait. Farow's gets around projectiles like little Mac's forward B and acts as a good interrupting tool. As a projectile user myself Farow's is the biggest threat to my spacing/camping.

What I'm saying is farow's can act as a long 8 directional teleport recovery, long range KO tool (sort of like Samus' charge shot), a camping punisher like Mac's forward B, a risky but powerful low % KO tool like Luigi's super jump punch, a disappear 'counter' like tool like Sheik's vanish and all this can be canceled if you're unsure by simply appearing in place or a different location away from the opponent.

 

[Soul.]

 

[ZombieBran]

Projectile tier: Din's Fire, Phantom Slash

Phantom has to be at least one tier above Din's

 

[SBphiloz4]

To be fair, any ledge snap is vulnerable to that. There's no foolproof recovery but Farow's is one of the best. This also complements her entire offstage game including Dair. With a different upB, say Marth's dolphin slash, Zelda would be much more limited offstage. I mean she couldn't go far from the stage and throw out laggy aerials/phantom.
Farow's is one of the few upBs that works outside its traditional upB purposes. Elevator is scary but escapable, no argument there. Zelda also can simply reappear in place or to the side to escape which is only punishable with a hard read. This makes it a decent space resetting tool. The 2nd hit alone can KO from a good distance and can be aimed- another valuable trait. Farow's gets around projectiles like little Mac's forward B and acts as a good interrupting tool. As a projectile user myself Farow's is the biggest threat to my spacing/camping.

What I'm saying is farow's can act as a long 8 directional teleport recovery, long range KO tool (sort of like Samus' charge shot), a camping punisher like Mac's forward B, a risky but powerful low % KO tool like Luigi's super jump punch, a disappear 'counter' like tool like Sheik's vanish and all this can be canceled if you're unsure by simply appearing in place or a different location away from the opponent.

Your arguments about FW uping her off stage game is most definitely valid. Because it's so long ranged, she doesn't have to fear going deep and making use of IMO her best move to spike.

It also beats projectile users for sure but only if they start getting really predictable with their projectiles. It's an easy shield for the opponent if Zelda uses raw Farore's at the wrong time and it's an easy punish. Also, FW is not necessarily a space resetting move. It's totally cool against characters like Link, but the majority of the top tiers can easily close the gap and punish before Zelda can even move after the FW. IMO you shouldn't compare Farore's to a long range projectile move because it doesn't have the best startup time in the world but unwary opponents can surely be caught off guard at the right time.

Either way, Farore's Wind is EASILY one of Zelda's best moves. It does have many positive traits, but are ultimately held back by many flaws that prevent it from being as useful as Dtilt and Dair IMO. Consider that Fox's custom UpB3 is a VERY good custom move that kills and has good recovery, but it isn't his best move because other moves like Usmash and Bair exist.

 

[Antonykun]

Villager Looks so happy to be next to those posts XD

^what is this?

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

When someone doesn't strike Halberd against Zelda

 

[Antonykun]

When someone doesn't strike Halberd against Zelda

but what if that guy is a Rosalinda player?!

 

[FullMoon]

Or Greninja

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

The person who didn't strike Halberd was a Falcon
he taunted and then I elevatored him at 30% BAN ZELDA

 

[FullMoon]

@ Locke 06

Megaman's Up-Air is magic.

 

[Macchiato]

Idk what to feel about today. I won some matches on Smashladder but they only gave me like 8 points each. Then I kept losing back into Silver I, Then I got back to Gold III

AND ALL THE PLAYERS WERE LAGGY MACS

 

[Koiba]

mfw when my opponent chooses Halberd or Castle Siege

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

Well today on Smash ladder I got to Gold lll! Then as soon as I did I kept running into laggy people and I went back to Silver l. Yay...well at least I got some stupid elevator and usmash kills :^)

 

[SpiralGalaxies]

Or Greninja

Out of curiosity was this my Toon Link? It reminds me of one of our matches (when I played Toon Link)

I love halberds low ceiling so much.

Also hello friends!

 

[SBphiloz4]

Gorls, a good buddy of mine is planning on holding weekly online tourneys every Wednesday. It even has a prize of $5 when most online tourneys don't have prizes.

The tourney is unfortuantely for North American players only to minimize lag, but I'm sure it be a lot of fun for many of you to check it out and get some experience with many players, including some of the best from my region!

More info and signup are in this link. This Wednesday will be the first tourney, so I want it to have a good attendance so that it can continue as a weekly thing! My friend is also potentially the most famous tournament coordinators in my region so it's gonna be legit! Thanks gorls~

 

[FullMoon]

Out of curiosity was this my Toon Link? It reminds me of one of our matches (when I played Toon Link)

I love halberds low ceiling so much.

Also hello friends!

No, that was WindsRequiem's from the ladder. We often play each other but outside of one set I always end up winning.

... In part because he keeps counterpicking Halberd against me and stuff like that happens lol.

 

[evmaxy54]

A few things I feel like Zeldas need to do with FW to progress in the meta:


1. Zeldas need to learn the whole "hold down when teleporting to overshoot the ledge" thing. Mixing it up between that, going straight to grabbing the ledge & going for the ledge without grabbing it until after the hitbox will make Zelda really hard to edgeguard (unless you're Peach who can just float Nair for days). You would not believe how many times this is helped me in matches as of late (both in tourneys & in friendlies).

2. Somewhat similar to going to the ledge without grabbing it, learn to recover without aiming for the ledge but falling into it. A lot of Melee Spacie players do this often to mix-up their recovery. Of course our recovery is laggy as all hell but the aim is to be really close to the ledge while being in a spot that slightly delays our time to grab the ledge which could potentially throw off an opponents edgeguard.

Spoiler: what I mean in pic form

A p bad example I know but trying to take a picture is a *****.

You go for the blue arrow then you fall with the yellow arrow from the horizontal momentum from the angle you went for as opposed to always going for the red arrow all the time

Situational of course but anything to make us more slippery offstage is good =3

Also this is potentially the best way to recover against a Peach. **** EOE I just want to grab the ledge damnit y du yew hav 2 b su mean to me ;_;

3. Learn from the current Melee meta which is becoming more "reaction-based option coverage" (see Plup VS Mango at CEO, Plup was techchasing Mango so hard that set he should've had it ;_; ) & take that approach to our Elevators. When opponents are hit by FW1, they have 3 options: DI Left, No DI & DI Right. But from those three options we have two very similar situations:

Spoiler: one where we hit the opponent point blank with FW1

And

Spoiler: one where we hit opponent from far away

Note that these are just poorly drawn & estimated trajectories.

FW works really weirdly in this game, in order to get the weird angles I think it's to do with with the timing of inputting the / angle (or 22.5 degrees either way or in between the notches of the GCC) as opposed to getting some weird raw angle. The latter you input this weird angle the less horizontal distance you cover. This however makes reacting to the DI away from FW1 far away harder because you will need to input the direction sooner than latter so you might need to get the read with that unless someone makes 40XX & then we can't know for certain.

However all the other angles should be got with reaction, we have 21 frames until we disappear & if the easy angles require 15 frames to react to, that is entirely possible since 15 frames = 0.25 seconds or 1/4th of a second which is roughly the average human reaction time. It's just reacting to the trajectory & inputting this specific angle is the hard part lol

 

[SpiralGalaxies]

Speaking of Anthers Ladder how does it work? I joined yesterday but i'm still confused as what to do there.

 

[Locke 06]

@ FullMoon - Mega man's up air is something I'm surprised has not received a nerf. 20% up air on a character that is supposed to be plagued by low damage output. Combos into itself on fast fallers (dthrow>FAir>uairx2 is the noob string that does 40-50% since UAir is not guaranteed after FAir).

It's as out of place as Sheik's vanish kill power/intangibility/reappearing hitbox/windbox/re-ledge grab invulnerability/lack of landing lag.

Tourney tonight at 6 PST. Epeengaming is the stream. Anything but a win is a disappointment. Mega man is a bad character

 

[evmaxy54]

Phantom has to be at least one tier above Din's

Nah they're both equally **** lol

 

[Antonykun]

the sad thing about ather is that no one has a 3ds

 

[Rickster]

I feel like when we have actual Zelda meta discussion the social dies, lol.

Not to say it's a bad thing. Meta discussion is really good for Zelda.

 

[SBphiloz4]

I feel like when we have actual Zelda meta discussion the social dies, lol.

Not to say it's a bad thing. Meta discussion is really good for Zelda.

It's because 70% of the users here did the right thing and not submit themselves to the hell that is maining Zelda so of course they cannot really contribute

 

[kenniky]

Gorls, a good buddy of mine is planning on holding weekly online tourneys every Wednesday. It even has a prize of $5 when most online tourneys don't have prizes.

The tourney is unfortuantely for North American players only to minimize lag, but I'm sure it be a lot of fun for many of you to check it out and get some experience with many players, including some of the best from my region!

More info and signup are in this link. This Wednesday will be the first tourney, so I want it to have a good attendance so that it can continue as a weekly thing! My friend is also potentially the most famous tournament coordinators in my region so it's gonna be legit! Thanks gorls~

of course it's at a time I can't do oh well I'd probably get demolished anyway

 

[SpiralGalaxies]

I want to contribute, but I have very little knowledge of how competitve play/ the game in general really works, much less the characters. And then when I try figure things out, I get too a certain point when my brain goes: "You're never going to tournaments, why do you care?" and then my motivation swan dives. So then i stop, but then I see people talking and I want to contribute. It's a vicious cycle of laziness.

i've been trying to get past it but its hard.

 

[Soul.]

You can care about contributing lol. Online exists. Tourneys aren't everything.
I mean yeah lag exists but...

 

[Rickster]

I might start going into the MU thread more, since I started playing locals. Before I could only do that theorycraft stuff, but now I actually have a tiny bit of real world experience.

Almost to my tournament, probably going to rep our Queen 100%.

 

[warionumbah2]

I mean yeah lag exists but...

I rate this. You said 'lag' then stopped cuz you know that its impossible to sugarcoat that bs. Mad respect for that Edgychu.

 

[Soul.]

I rate this. You said 'lag' then stopped cuz you know that its impossible to sugarcoat that bs. Mad respect for that Edgychu.

thanks mr. i judge bad mks :^]

 

[kenniky]

I rate this. You said 'lag' then stopped cuz you know that its impossible to sugarcoat that bs. Mad respect for that Edgychu.

what is wrong with Meta Knight's right shoulder in your avatar

 

[Ffamran]

I rate this. You said 'lag' then stopped cuz you know that its impossible to sugarcoat that bs. Mad respect for that Edgychu.

Lag? Be happy this doesn't exist or Shulk would be mad OP online. And this is why I kept Demon's Souls offline.

 

[Macchiato]

What I think we really need to learn is farore's wind teleporting spots. It'll add a landing tool and a mindgame. It's great for edgeguardings and it gets her out of disadvantaged positions. Also imagine all the flashy edgeguards. I think that it'll help a lot. @ evmaxy54 what do you think?

 

[SpiralGalaxies]

@ Soul. I recognize that, but a section of my brain goes: "What you're contributing someone has already contributed. what's the point, people have heard it before." I don't plan to become competitive, so when i try to learn advanced things and contribute, I always lose motivation because what can I really contribute? Everyone else has already had those ideas.

Sorry for whining, but yeah. I wish I could help out more. Especially now that i'm actively playing Zelda.

 

[Koiba]

Speaking of Anthers Ladder how does it work? I joined yesterday but i'm still confused as what to do there.

Spoiler: Da Guide

Okay hopefully you can see that :/

Red is your game settings and where you pick the smash games you play. Profile is where you pick your mains and NNID and place and stuff like that

Orange is the game filter. I currently only have Wii U request filtered right now so I only get requests for Wii U matches

Yellow is peps asking for friendlies and ranked and thes treams

Green is how many matches they want to do. There's Bo3, Bo5, and endless

Blue is where they're from. Red is pretty far away while green is super close

Purple is the chat. You don't have to use it.

Pink is all the cool stuff like themes, ranks, rules and tourneys. I got that Pika theme right now

Grayish colour is the rank. --- is rankless and have to win around 8 to get a rank. Best is Platinum lll I think.

Edit: I just realized that almostlegendary is in there O__O

 

[warionumbah2]

thanks mr. i judge bad mks :^]

Apparently alot of California players picked up MK too huehuehuehue

 

[Antonykun]

I think bad Villagers are the most disgustingly disappointing things on this game

 

[kenniky]

Spoiler: Da Guide

View attachment 62096

Okay hopefully you can see that :/

Red is your game settings and where you pick the smash games you play. Profile is where you pick your mains and NNID and place and stuff like that

Orange is the game filter. I currently only have Wii U request filtered right now so I only get requests for Wii U matches

Yellow is peps asking for friendlies and ranked and thes treams

Green is how many matches they want to do. There's Bo3, Bo5, and endless

Blue is where they're from. Red is pretty far away while green is super close

Purple is the chat. You don't have to use it.

Pink is all the cool stuff like themes, ranks, rules and tourneys. I got that Pika theme right now

Grayish colour is the rank. --- is rankless and have to win around 8 to get a rank. Best is Platinum lll I think.

Edit: I just realized that almostlegendary is in there O__O

One request: next time, please use the brush or something that is more than one pixel wide

 

[FullMoon]

Grayish colour is the rank. --- is rankless and have to win around 8 to get a rank. Best is Platinum lll I think.

Highest rank is actually Grand Smasher I but nobody is going to go that far lol.

 

[SpiralGalaxies]

!

You are a good person Koiba. Thank you very much