Zelda buffs

[Iris]

I think it's clear through some of the videos that Zelda's gotten a few improvements, but we've seen very little so far to determine all the ones she's gotten and if she's gotten any nerfs. We all know she needed some buffs to put her on a more competitive level. What kind of changes are you anticipating and what ones do you think you've seen?

Buffs I hope for-

Neutral ground attack: Comes out faster and is easier to link.
Down Tilt: More knockback, better range, better meteor capabilities. I wouldn't be surprised if they added some horizontal kncokback to it.
Up Tilt: Comes out faster.
Up and Side Smash: Easier to sweetspot, harder to escape from.
Down Smash: Slightly more knockback.
Neutral Air: Completes quicker and much, much harder to escape.
Down Air: Much more range and knockback, maybe a new move completely. Zelda's airgame is too predictable without a good down air.
Nayru's Love: More range, including vertical, slightly more knockback, and harder to escape.
Din's Fire: Travel faster and more horizontal and vertical distance. Zelda should excel at long range.
Farore's Wind: Quicker to use, less lag time after landing, and more damage/knockback to enemies close by.

Buffs I may have seen-

Side Tilt: May have a lot more horizontal knockback.
Up Smash: Looks a lot quicker.
Side Smash: The area of effect looks slightly bigger in one of the screenshots.
Forwards and Backwards Air: May have bigger range (The ball at her foot looks bigger). However, it looks like the ball is closer to her leg, so it might be smaller as well. Also, it looks as you can do them a lot faster consecutively.
Up Air: May have more knockback (Compared to some other moves she used in that SE video).
Din's Fire: Has a lot more knockback (Video is a bit blurry, but it looks as if it KOed a Primid pretty well)
Farore's Wind: Travels farther and Zelda falls faster.
Dash Attack: Seems pretty strong still, maybe a bit better. (Compared to other moves)
Zelda's running speed is increased (Compared to Melee at least. Seriously, I know she's a princess, but she shouldn't be slower than Bowser).
Zelda's jumping distance is slightly increased (Though her second jump still looks kind of sucky).

Debuffs I anticipate-

Down Smash: Probably a lot slower. It was pretty fast in Melee.
Transform: May no longer exist. I don't expect it to, and I personally wouldn't call it a debuff, but some may if it's not there.
Zelda's dodges are also probably going to be a lot worse. Despite her flaws, Zelda had some awesome dodges.

Debuffs I saw:

Neutral ground attack: It looks a lot smaller and higher from the ground.
Up Tilt: Looks MUCH weaker. The knockback looks nerfed pretty bad.
Up Air: The range looks a lot different now. It looks like there's slightly more vertical range at the expense of some horizontal range. Maybe not too bad of a debuff.

 

[blueriku]

two things 1. it's not safe to assume any buffs or nerfs based on the SE vid since in adventure mode the handicap is changed so some will be able to kill when they normally can't, i of course might be way wrong. 2 zelda's down if anything should not get a nerf it fine on range and knock back it's one of Zelda's that was well balanced in melee if anything it should say the same of given different knock back.

 

[Iris]

Most buffs were based on the strength of all the moves combined, not just single ones being used on an enemy. If Din's Fire can kill and Zelda's up tilt can't, I think there's a pretty clear that either Din's Fire was superbuffed, Up Tilt was supernerfed, or more likely, one was just boosted and the other slightly weakened.

Also, I don't think her Down Smash should be nerfed either, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was since it's one of the most quick activating ones in the game.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Primid are KO'd by depleting their HP unlike the Smash roster. When this happens, THEN they get sent flying offscreen. If Zelda was using attacks against other regular characters, it would be possible to judge whether or not they are indeed more or less effective. Against the Primid, this is impossible to tell.

 

[Iris]

Are you serious? Well poo.

Either way, I hope most of those buffs make it in.

 

[Drake3]

These are things that stood out to me:

First of all, Fafore's Wind looks like it travels the exact same distance as it did in Melee. I did a little test and realised that it travels slightly further than her jump + double jump in Melee and it looks like it does the same thing in Brawl.

Din's Fire honestly looks the exact same.

Zelda seems faster and her attacks appear faster. They're also clearly more sparkly than before.

The things I hope are just flat out changed are Dtilt and Dsmash and Dair. Everything else just needs to be buffed a bit. Nayru's love could definitely either use a new gimmick or alot more priority.

 

[Iris]

Who's to say her double jumps haven't improved as well though? Look at the size of Zelda and compare it with how far she travels in the air. It's a pretty big difference than in Melee.

Din's Fire's appearance doesn't look much different, but it certainly needs some improvements.

Also, I really like Zelda's down smash. It could use a buff, sure, but she had plenty of worse moves.

 

[Drake3]

Also, I really like Zelda's down smash. It could use a buff, sure, but she had plenty of worse moves.

Fine, it can stay. >_>

But it's very...unusual for the magic-oriented princess to be using her dainty ankles to fight.

And I know the physics have changed, but her jumps and FE still seem to follow the same equation they did before. Personally I'm comparing the neutral FE to the jump, double jump, and then UAir that she performs right after. Like it's changed to match this particular game, but it's still the same pattern it was before.

I was really hoping for Fafore to get some sort of buff. It's too predictable the way it is. Either decrease the landing lag or make it do something, but as it's her only method of recovery and it travels in a straight line, it's pretty simplistic.

And I'm like 98% sure that's her Dair. Every time I see the video it just screams "New, Improved, Down Air Attack!!"

 

[Iris]

I guess they're the same in comparison, but not in actual distance.

I agree that Farore needs a buff though. The strange thing about Zelda's recovery was that it sucked in every way but distance. Maybe if the wind around her when she lands can does damage she'll be better off, but otherwise it's just too punishable.

All the sparkly stuff directly underneath her makes it hard to see how he leg's moving. If it is her dair, and it's suddenly magic-oriented now, then I'll be very happy.

 

[Drake3]

I agree that Farore needs a buff though. The strange thing about Zelda's recovery was that it sucked in every way but distance. Maybe if the wind around her when she lands can does damage she'll be better off, but otherwise it's just too punishable.

And now that everyone and their grandma can Glide, Float, Multi-Jump, Tether and Recover 2 ways, hers pales in comparison. Someone (name eludes me) mentioned how it should provide a gust of wind in the direction that she travels, just to mindgame people. I had a similar idea in which the ribbon would just streak across, hit them, and then unravel around her.

So, do you think we need a Zelda update? Because I personally think we need a Zelda update. Like now. It's no longer a question, Sakurai. >_>

 

[Iris]

Actually, if Din's Fire was like Melee's, where it dragged Zelda in the direction she was jumping, but only it could be cancelled and wouldn't take away her third jump, then she would have a 2-part recovery.

The only flaw with the ribbon idea is that it's just as predictable as Farore's Wind and would be fairly easily dodged WHILE going for Zelda. Unless of course I misunderstood it. Maybe the gust of wind could carry them in the direction that Zelda was going and then the wind around Zelda when she lands damages whoever lands near her. That'd actually make it a pretty good combo starter.

Zelda update should be anytime now. In fact, it should've been any time now 4 months ago.

 

[rageagainst]

I was about to make a huge long and comprehensive topic about this and game balance, but put it off so long because it was so huge, so w/e itll just be about game balance now.

What I think was buffed the most was her UPSMASH, did you see it on the video?? you guys are saying it comes out faster, but did you notice that its AOE was huge (vertically)! Looking at a pic of her forward smash, i would say its AOE is similar (i hope it is).

You say her uptilt is weak (though it looks the same to me), but it will probably not matter because of the l33tness of her upsmash (i think it was her primary kill move)

Her side tilt makes people fly directly backwards, can't tell if its more powerful but seems so.

If you notice her Dair doesn't spark until she actually hits something, and then when she does all this sparkle stuff comes out, and i speculate it will work like how yoshis or foxes diar worked in melee, but i hope not.

About her bmoves.. where did u see naryus love? i don't think they showed it yet... I wish her Farores wind was better, but it seems unchanged, other than its faster (though you can't play as good mindgames because i don't think it has any invisibility frames). I think her din's fire is more powerful as it killed one of those guys in one hit, but i can't be sure.

 

[Drake3]

Think it'll be easier to sweetspot with Fafore's? Not so much a question as "Please God let it be easier to sweetspot." She should be able to do it in the middle of the attack instead of waiting for it to finish/hitting something. You should also have greater influence over where she falls.

Din's Fire should not put you in the free-fall state. I don't see why they put that handicap in Melee.

 

[Zone]

lol, this whole buff thing sums up into "I hope zelda is faster, and has bigger knock back."

I like the Down-tilt and how it pops people up infront of you(At highter percentates). Can't really have the same property low damage, Or you could easily connect that to kick. and Shield poke all day with it and get a kick.

UpSmash already comes out really fast. I can break FAlco's Pillar with it out of shield.

I could agree on a faster uptilt. And a non-crappy up-air please, or a down-air worth using. Jab is cool, but you should be able to get jab after another jab a little faster.

This is all my opinion of course.

Make Zelda's Grab a little faster? I once started a grab on a marth shielding and he shield grabbed me before my grab could grab. That's how slow her grab is >.>


EDIT: What's with you all hating on down smash >.> it's like one of her best moves. Especially for edgeguarding spacies, and other characters. Not to mention it comes out and is done really fast. Has enough knock back to mess up your enemy's rhythm to. and has KO power at the edge while edgeguarding.

 

[Iris]

Well, with the new handling with the Wii remote, it might be easier to combo with her down tilt, but if not then it's gonna remain sa crappy as ever.

I agree though. I love her downsmash, even if it isn't magic based.

 

[Erow Devastates]

i think he uair, dair, and downsmash will would different. and a speed boost(even with or without sheik being her down b). i think some of b move would b better.

 

[Ztarfish]

All I really care for is a general increase in movement speed and maybe attack speed as well as making her Smashes not so easily DIed out of. Her Uair and Dair don't really bother me though I wouldn't say no to a buff of those.

 

[Stiputation]

Nice analysis. I was so shocked when I saw the video though. It seems as though Zelda sure has been buffed a-plenty, judging by Farore's wind and Din's fire. Couldn't really see Nayru's love that well, but it looks like it comes out MUCH faster.