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Yoshi's Super Double Jump Wavedash Mystery

Noyu

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 15, 2014
Messages
40
Hi Yoshi Mains,

About 4 months ago I was playing with my friend who was playing Doc. I was yoshi and was on dreamland with standard settings. I don't remember the ports. I don't know what version of melee it was other than that it wasn't 20xx and was likely not version 1.00. While I was playing I double jumped and then my hand twitched/slipped really quickly and I ended up doing this luigi-length (possible farther I don't remember too well) waveland. My friend told me he never saw aMSa do that, and I replied, "that's because he doesn't." I know this might be hard to believe, but regardless I've been trying to recreate what happened in training mode and cannot do it. I wanted to let the yoshi community know when I got it mastered in the form of a video but I cannot replicate it. Does anyone know what may have happened? I've tried doing frame perfect wavelands but it hardly equates to the distance I acheived when my hands twitched. When I say waveland I mean wavedash. The inputs I use are y for jump and L for wavedash. I've started taking this game more seriously and having tech like this would be amazing.

Thanks,
Noyu (My old tag xD)
 

Nuttre

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 31, 2014
Messages
153
Location
Dundee
I think yoshi's double jump has hitbox shifting properties similar to ganondorf's allowing him to get perfect wavelands very easily. I'm not exactly sure what you're talking about precisely, but I think this is an attribute.
 

Sashimi

Smash Ace
Joined
May 25, 2013
Messages
704
When I say waveland I mean wavedash.
Which one? Your description is kind of confusing. Were you on the platform before jumping, or did you rise to the platform using your double jump?

If you were on the platform, and then you jumped, double jumped and air dodged, this is a DJC wavedash and can be used to get extra distance (though it is not as efficient as a simple wavedash because the double jump takes extra time). It is mostly useful for movement mixups, since you can change your momentum and direction at multiple points.



If you were on the ground, and then you jumped, double jumped up to the platform, and air dodged once you reached the height of the platform, you probably did a perfect waveland. Yoshi can cross the length of the Dream Land platforms with a waveland without any trouble, so I'm not sure what would give you the indication that Yoshi would travel as far as Luigi in this situation, since they'll both leave the platform before there is any significant difference between their wavelands. It is possible that you used Egg Lay or Egg Toss to preserve your momentum after leaving the platform (also called a Vududash). This is most common with Luigi, but can be done with Yoshi, and would definitely make your waveland go farther off the platform than normal.
 

Noyu

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 15, 2014
Messages
40
This was not using a platform. I refer to a double jump wavedash or any air-dodge tech out of a double jump as a waveland. I went an insane distance farther than the gif you have there, but seemingly using the same tech.
 
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Noyu

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 15, 2014
Messages
40
I was in the middle of the stage when it happened, facing right but wavedashing in reverse to the left. I believe I went under the platform but didn't quite catch the ledge. I only did it because the guy I was playing with wavedashed a lot and I thought it might help for me to double jump wavedash with him, but since I was not use to wavedashing I got the weird long one looking like Luigi.
 

Sashimi

Smash Ace
Joined
May 25, 2013
Messages
704
All right, thanks for the additional info. I've never seen or heard of anything like this, but I will look into it and post here if I find anything.
 

YOSHIDO

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 3, 2004
Messages
927
Location
Waukegan, IL
What you did was a Reverse Double Jump wavedash. For some reason when yoshi changes direction plus the dj momentum makes a yoshi superwavedash. To repeat the maneuver jump the opposite direction you want to travel then dj wavedash in the other direction. When you double jump you should be pretty low to the ground. I hope that helps.
 

tauKhan

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Messages
1,349
Haven't been able to do anything like this. It shouldn't be possible, since airdodge always sets your velocity based on controller stick input, cancelling previous velocity. What I managed to do looks a bit like extended wl, but in reality I just moved in the air before the wl, and the wl was normal length.
 

Noyu

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 15, 2014
Messages
40
^look it's not like I have nothing better to do than to come here and make up what happened to some yoshi mains. I don't expect anyone here to give me a great explanation at this point. But I wanted to leave this here so people could experiment so we could find new tech. I know it's hard to believe since I'm the only one who saw it. I think Yoshido might be right though, I haven't tried doing what he said yet. If you don't believe it, don't try doing it.
 

tauKhan

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Messages
1,349
Are you sure you didn't get hit before or something? Or caped? Kb momentum is separate so that can result in more speed. I tried quite rigorously to do what you described, can't make anything work, and there's no theory to support.
 

Noyu

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 15, 2014
Messages
40
I wasn't caped, but I may have been hit. I don't think I was hit though. Just because you cannot figure it out does not mean it is not possible. I'm just making this post because I know some weird super wavedash is possible and want to know how it's done. If it takes a long time to find, then so be it.
 

schmooblidon

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 18, 2014
Messages
496
Dude it's just a little hard to believe that yoshi can do a super wavedash, using an actual wavedash which like tauKhan says, has set velocity. And there are people like PerhapsMan and aMSa who have been testing yoshi for a long time and very in depth, who have never experienced it.

The other day I was convinced I cancelled mario's cape by landing, and spent ages trying to recreate it. I now think my mind was playing tricks on me, maybe too much melee. Maybe you just lightshielded something.

Oh and this all happened 4 months ago, so your memory must be crystal clear.
 

Noyu

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 15, 2014
Messages
40
Well, my friend saw it too and he's been playing for a few years and has gone to many tournaments.

It doesn't matter whether someone has experienced it themselves. Many yoshis don't double jump wavedash, unlike me, because they find it inefficient compared to the regular kind. If you think it didn't happen, why discourage other yoshi's from testing it?

I'm trying to help the metagame any way I can. By saying that it isn't possible without you knowing it is, you're only holding the metagame back. I'm not knowledgeable on Samus, but her super wavedash isn't exactly something someone might easily be able to reproduce unless they know exactly how to do it. It could be the same case with yoshi.

Perhapsman and Yoshido have given real input on the situation by suggesting I did I frame-perfect wavedash (which in all honesty could have happened, but deep inside I do not believe it was the case) or that I reverse double jumped. But please, real input only, if my claim is truly unworthy, the other yoshis will ignore it.

I know I don't post as much as everyone else so my credibility is somewhat lacking, but that's because I believe spending time in training mode is more important than coming to this site.
 
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MagicScrumpy

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 25, 2015
Messages
251
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Honestly, since no one else in this thread knows about it and every explanation given has been rejected, I think you're probably misremembering. It sounds like the reverse double jump waveland is most likely what happened to you if you aren't manufacturing the memory.
 

Noyu

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 15, 2014
Messages
40
I don't care what you think. I've made my case. This isn't a neckbeard debate. I'm not preaching false ideas, I'm just bringing up a topic. If you want to make this thread more productive, tell me why double jump wavedashing is so bad/good? These opinion/substance-less comments are useless and are troll-like. This isn't something I just recently thought of, since it happened I've been thinking about it a lot, so my memory isn't too bad. People naturally want explanations for things they don't understand, and if you can't figure it out yourself don't just rule it out, keep an open mind.
 
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MagicScrumpy

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 25, 2015
Messages
251
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Holy ****. Calm down, dude. This isn't a neckbeard debate brimming with substance-less, "troll-like" comments. You're honestly making a mountain out of a molehill. It's just kind of strange that you are describing an event that none of the rest of us has seen and that you can't re-create to boot. But no one here is accusing you of "preaching false ideas". Since it's something that has only happened once to one person in a fairly sizable pool of Yoshi players, it makes sense that we would be skeptical of something that is absent from everybody else's experiences.

So you call this a neckbeard debate and us trolls, and then you request to derail your own thread into something that the thread has already covered: the use and dangers of double jump waveland.

We're just trying to understand; there's no need to berate us and disregard everything we're trying to say. If anything, it only makes your case look less believable.
 
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Noyu

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 15, 2014
Messages
40
I'm not calling anyone a troll. I am just asking for legitimate feedback, replies with substance. I already said in my original post I know it sounds unbelievable. I don't need people telling me they don't believe me, it just ruins the thread for anyone trying to find real answers from the thread. I'm not berating anyone. I really wish people using this site would just stick to saying important, relevant things. If my reply sounds harsh, I'm sorry, I'm just trying to be straightforward and honest myself.
 

ihasabuket

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 17, 2015
Messages
321
Dont know if you guys are still looking for the answer but what you did is a reverse DJC waveland at the optimal angle. theres a video of this guy doing it at a normal angle with pm ness. The video is called Ness AT Guide: Double Jump Cancel Wavedash. Sorry i cant post links yet since ive only had about 2 posts.
 
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birthgirth

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 23, 2014
Messages
14
I've been utilizing what ihasabuket said. It's great for mixups to djc waveland. Makes them think you're going to attack but instead you waveland and it gives additional distance. Me and my buddy were just talking about this same thing. (He plays Ness tho)
 

Dj9000

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 2, 2015
Messages
8
Location
Florida
I've had this happen once to myself last year. I was playing against a CPU Marth on Battlefield and he was on a platform and I was chilling at the bottom, and I did some weird **** with the controller on accident and I launched across the floor. To me, it looked like some perfect moonwalk into a DJC wavedash or something. I think this is a similar thing to what you've experienced
 

Pk_dnkx

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 6, 2014
Messages
6
I've had this happen once to myself last year. I was playing against a CPU Marth on Battlefield and he was on a platform and I was chilling at the bottom, and I did some weird **** with the controller on accident and I launched across the floor. To me, it looked like some perfect moonwalk into a DJC wavedash or something. I think this is a similar thing to what you've experienced
I think this is closer. It happened to me last night at Friday night Turnip. I was dashdancing in place really fast and wavedash-dashing out of it. I was getting tired and my dash dances kept being moonwalk dash dances. The closest I could get to recreating it was a moonwalk reverse dash wavedash dash but i isn't the Sam as the slide that initially happened. It legit looked like a Samus super wavedash. I have no idea what happened. It was amazing. I don't think it was a shield slide, and it could have very well been a djc reverse wavedash dash after the moonwalk. I'll be in the lab this week.
 
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