Yoga Meta-Jab Reset and Fitness Footsool, Jab Lock, Wakeups, etc. Discussion

[Fancykong]

Dapuffster (the premeir Mii Brawler main) just won a highly competitive tournament, and not just with Up B!

He used two weight class-specific combos that involved either footstooling into a jab lock for floaties or using a fast falling Fair to jab reset into a chain grab. It was so effective that I began to wonder about our own options from footstool/jab lock. Specifically, how to force them to happen. According to testing, I believe only WFT's jab 2 or 3 can jab lock, so I'm still working on it.

I originally thought that they were just a gimmic, but jab lock/footstool combos and setups are making their way into the meta, and fast. It took Shofu (a fox main) mere hours to create reliable jab lock setups with Mewtwo when he released on Wednesday. We Trainers need to be ready.

So, have you already figured out ways to capitalize on these two parts of gameplay? Feel free to speculate and discuss here. Of course, I apologize if I'm late to the party.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

I feel the main barrier to incorporating jab lock setups into our play is that we lack autolink aerials and attacks quick and weak enough to force missed techs from platforms... footstooling isn't out of the question though, and maybe footstools off of ledge option reads could help? Do you know if the back hits of jab 1 locks?

 

[Fancykong]

I tried, Jab 1 leg actually knocks them away, even after a missed tech. You can force a footstool by double jumping quickly towards an opponent, though. Like a double tap of the jump button.

 

[Jigglymaster]

Dapuffster (the premeir Mii Brawler main) just won a highly competitive tournament, and not just with Up B!

He used two weight class-specific combos that involved either footstooling into a jab lock for floaties or using a fast falling Fair to jab reset into a chain grab. It was so effective that I began to wonder about our own options from footstool/jab lock. Specifically, how to force them to happen. According to testing, I believe only WFT's jab 2 or 3 can jab lock, so I'm still working on it.

I originally thought that they were just a gimmic, but jab lock/footstool combos and setups are making their way into the meta, and fast. It took Shofu (a fox main) mere hours to create reliable jab lock setups with Mewtwo when he released on Wednesday. We Trainers need to be ready.

So, have you already figured out ways to capitalize on these two parts of gameplay? Feel free to speculate and discuss here. Of course, I apologize if I'm late to the party.

It's more so the fast fall speed of the characters, not the weight. But you got the right idea! I'm happy to have given you guys some insight on how to improve your characters metagame. Good luck!

 

[Fancykong]

After some testing, I believe that the back leg of fair can force the weird platform ledge fall animation necessary for jab locks. Specifically, it's the beginning, crushing blow (the one we meteor smash with) and not the part that hits if you connect later. It can also work off the ledge of the stage itself, but the timing might be too strict to be viable.

Sourspot Bair is also an option and might work better for FD-like stages than Back Fair.
It's a bit easier to keep your momentum, so one could potentially set up a Bair footstool or Bair Header. Which would be awesome. The problem is that they have to be very close to the ledge, so set ups would be necessary.

You can see the Bair setup in this video:
https://youtu.be/guoksvQ_27o

 

[⑨ball]

Dapuffster (the premeir Mii Brawler main) just won a highly competitive tournament, and not just with Up B!

He used two weight class-specific combos that involved either footstooling into a jab lock for floaties or using a fast falling Fair to jab reset into a chain grab. It was so effective that I began to wonder about our own options from footstool/jab lock. Specifically, how to force them to happen. According to testing, I believe only WFT's jab 2 or 3 can jab lock, so I'm still working on it.

I originally thought that they were just a gimmic, but jab lock/footstool combos and setups are making their way into the meta, and fast. It took Shofu (a fox main) mere hours to create reliable jab lock setups with Mewtwo when he released on Wednesday. We Trainers need to be ready.

So, have you already figured out ways to capitalize on these two parts of gameplay? Feel free to speculate and discuss here. Of course, I apologize if I'm late to the party.

Can I get some clarification on this or video?

Like did he win a tournament with this as his primary go to option and something he was using out of like down throw?
Or was it just something he took a stock with in GF or something?

I'm pretty certain we can get a reliable setup out of weighted header. I also wouldn't be surprised to see something come from the jab release (or just comboing into it with reverse ftilt). Still not sure if it's worth investing in considering how situational it seems, but thinking about it now, it might be worth it considering it might guarantee a nair.

 

[Fancykong]

Can I get some clarification on this or video?

Like did he win a tournament with this as his primary go to option and something he was using out of like down throw?
Or was it just something he took a stock with in GF or something?

I'm pretty certain we can get a reliable setup out of weighted header. I also wouldn't be surprised to see something come from the jab release (or just comboing into it with reverse ftilt). Still not sure if it's worth investing in considering how situational it seems, but thinking about it now, it might be worth it considering it might guarantee a nair.

He literally won just yesterday, so I don't think the video is uploaded yet. But he specifically went for those combos to rack up early damage. In particular, he immediately shut down a Captain Falcon the moment the match started from 0-40ish.

In the interview afterwards, he said that his game plan with Mii Brawler is to rack up damage to reach the magic number, and then up B before their percent goes to high. Those combos are a means to that end.

 

[⑨ball]

I'm mainly curious how he did it. Mii Brawler's grab game is leagues better than WFT's so setting up a footstool seems more plausible.

 

[Jigglymaster]

He literally won just yesterday, so I don't think the video is uploaded yet. But he specifically went for those combos to rack up early damage. In particular, he immediately shut down a Captain Falcon the moment the match started from 0-40ish.

In the interview afterwards, he said that his game plan with Mii Brawler is to rack up damage to reach the magic number, and then up B before their percent goes to high. Those combos are a means to that end.

I'm mainly curious how he did it. Mii Brawler's grab game is leagues better than WFT's so setting up a footstool seems more plausible.

This is the fast faller version. I didn't make this gif but I am the one playing in this
http://gfycat.com/PleasedThatFirebelliedtoad

 

[⑨ball]

Ahhhh, I see. So you were using the semispike on fair.
Very nice~

edit:
@ Fancykong I looked into weighted header a bit, and as I thought we can get a footstool pretty easily off of basic zoning with it. I wasn't able to jab lock it however, because the footstool put me too high to drop a fair or bair on them.

Jab release can not be footstooled, but jab setups like utilt, r-ftilt, nair, ect can, but at those points follow ups with smashes will get the job you want done anyway.


It's not looking like jab locks will serve us well. No research on chain grabs, but it's not looking good based on what we already know about her grab game.

 

[Macchiato]

The back hit of fair locks

 

[Lord_Espurr]

I think I found a jab lock combo, but I would like you guys to confirm. From about full hop height:
Footstool --> Deep breathing (to stop momentum) --> airdoge --> fair or late/sourspot bair --> ???
I find it easiest with Bowser, hardest with Falco.

Also first post on Smashboards!

 

[Fancykong]

I think I found a jab lock combo, but I would like you guys to confirm. From about full hop height:
Footstool --> Deep breathing (to stop momentum) --> airdoge --> fair or late/sourspot bair --> ???
I find it easiest with Bowser, hardest with Falco.

Also first post on Smashboards!

Can you clarify what you mean by full hop height? As in, does the opponent have to be at that height or are we approaching them from that height (or both)?



Also, it took me forever, but I finally find a "decent" footstool setup into a possible jab lock. It works similarly to Mii Brawler's, where it takes more advantage of heavier or fast falling characters more than floaties.
The amount of Ftilts varies. I only used one or two at low percents. Weak hit Bair jab reset smaller characters, but not Dedede. Some floaties like G&W make this useless on them. Utilt and Nair require very specific percents and spacing compared to Ftilt.
If you could spare some, I'd like some critiques.

 

[⑨ball]

Looks good for teams, but I don't see an opportunity for a lock meaning the opponent can roll out before the bair connects. I think WFT's footstool height+fall speed is just too high for this to be a legitimate means of damage for us.

 

[Fancykong]

Well, I figured it would only be useful at very low percents anyway. I was thinking more about the surprise factor in the combo since it forces the opponent in the involuntary untechable footstool fall animation. I personally like Dairing people who like to sit and wait to use their get up attack, so I tried to incorporate that into the combo. I'm sure it would be more reliable if we used Weighted Header or something.

 

[⑨ball]

At the very least it's certainly good for tech chase reads as SS can catch either direction and the threat of it might land us some aerials.

Weighted will be simpler to setup, but it won't really change the fact that WFT can't reach the ground in time after a footstool to lock them with a soft bair, fair, or early dair.

 

[Macchiato]

http://youtu.be/gveW4BKv--Q

0:28-0:33

 

[⑨ball]

http://youtu.be/gveW4BKv--Q

0:28-0:33

I stand happily corrected.

It's funny because nair to footstool was one of the very first things I tested way back in the yoga discoveries thread before I knew you could cancel header.

And DB cancels I tested quite a bit but they'd always recover and land standing before I could do anything.

Looks like this'll work out of Fancy's too.