[99.9%] Shulk's Frame Analysis

Masonomace · Feb 21, 2016

For reasons, I've labbed a ton of frame skipping in Training Mode using 1/4x & 1/2x speed (Hold L). The Shulk community including the entire community realizes Shulk's frame data is bad, but nobody to my knowledge really looked into Shulk's frame data frame-by-frame to address visual dissatisfaction like I have these past couple of weeks. What's already known didn't feel detrimental at first, but the lacking in-between perks made me feel disgusted for how wrongfully unjustified his frame data truly is. So from all this analyzing, I've become more appreciative using the few moves that actually make sense for Shulk's design but not to how his balance was managed.

What I or we knew before

Shulk is dominantly right-handed, so Shulk will always have him reaching for the Monado with his right hand in every single attack involving the Monado.
Shulk sets the Monado on his back after a battle finishes in Xenoblade Chronicles. However, in the case with Smash Bros., Shulk sets the Monado on his back after a move's performed. Additionally, Shulk starts the fight with the Monado on his back.
Shulk's moves have Blade & Beam hitboxes. Some moves have both hitboxes simultaneously, some hit twice involving the Blade occurring first followed next by the Beam visually. And then there are moves that don't necessarily have a Blade & Beam but rather a sweet & sourspot for different reasons.

What I know now after this frame analysis

The hitboxes don't add up visually. If Shulk is intended to have bad frame data as a balance for his strong suits being his range & Monado arts, then I would accept it & abstain from any debates or arguments. However, this intention for Shulk to have slow startup & long endlag for his move-set without proper design & balancing around his animations & the apparent mechanics & animations from his game DO NOT match up correctly.
The Monado has several animations indicating if Shulk's frame data looks "fair" or not. Keep in mind that this isn't the actual design intention, but rather something I wanted to focus on for the frame analysis.
A. First, you have Shulk grabbing a hold & taking off the Monado from his back.
B. Second, the Monado starts to open up & form a laser blade, or remain closed & be surrounded by ether.
C. Third, the longevity of the Monado's ether blade remaining constant to signify if the hitbox is long or short.
D. Fourth, the Monado starts retracting & the ether blade dissipating with ether particles lingering around.
E. Finally, you have the point in which Shulk places the Monado on his back & lets go of it.
(This is all based on a hypothetical "what if these animation indicators factored in entirely for Shulk's frame data" theory. Just on this alone is why I created this thread, so these things don't HAVE to matter in the long run, okay?)
Startup isn't good, but I understand it based on the attack animations. Hitbox activity & endlag of his attacks are what upset me even though the endlag could have matched up with how quickly Shulk returns the Monado to his back, yet this isn't true except for a few moves.
Shulk's aerial autocancels are laughable & frustrating to cope with because they're so unsafe to use barring Fair walling or a heavily retreating aerial with superior spacing. Vanilla can autocancel with Full Hopping Fair, but even then you still take 4 frames of hard lag & you're left wide open if you're choosing not to doublejump. Meanwhile, characters have Short Hop autocancels & they only suffer 2 frames of soft lag as well as not having to be in the air longer than 50+ frames.
(You could be saying, "at least Shulk has art activation tech to cancel landing lag" which I will agree with. It's always better to use an art activation to cancel landing lag, but the point is that Shulk shouldn't be taking landing lag for Full Hopping with some of his aerials. It looks terrible & inexcusable when you see the Monado magically teleport in Shulk's hands after he just put it on his back.)

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Disappointing Frame Analysis

Jab3

Sweetspot hits on frame 12-13
Sourspot hits on only frame 14
FAF is 45

Shulk grabs the Monado on frame 5 and comes off his back on frame 6. On frame 5, a Monado slash sound can be heard. The Monado starts to highlight on frame 10 which could of been a potential hitbox. The ether stays highlighted around the Monado from frame 10-18 but vanishes instantly on frame 19. From frame 20-30 Shulk basically keeps the same pose with very little movement from his arms, finally returning it to his back gradually. Yet he doesn't officially put it on his back & then he's able to act on frame 45 by holding shield. On frame 48 he puts the Monado on his back & lets go of it too.

Dash Attack

hits on frame 15-16
FAF is 53

Shulk grabs the Monado on frame 5. The Monado starts to open on frame 8, & on frame 9 a big flash of light emits from the Monado. On frame 10, the ether blade shoots out. On frame 10, a Monado opening sound can be heard. On frame 13, a Monado slash sound can be heard. On frame 36, the ether blade starts to dissipate & finishes dissipating on frame 39. On frame 38, the Monado starts to retract & finishes retracting on frame 39. Right on frame 53, Shulk is about to place the Monado on his back, but was a couple of frames too late since he is able to act with holding shield. On frame 54, Shulk places the Monado on his back & is letting go of it.

Forward tilt

Blade & Beam hit on frame 12-13
FAF is 44

Shulk grabs the Monado on frame 3, taking it off his back on frame 4. On frame 7, a Monado opening sound can be heard. On frame 9, a Monado slash sound can be heard. The Monado starts to open & form the ether blade on frame 9. On frame 11, it looks like a potential hitbox frame, but for whatever reason it's not. The Monado stays open from frame 9-16, starts closing on frame 17 & finishes closing on frame 20 while ether gradually disappears. From frame 21-31 the Monado is basically in the same area. On frame 44, Shulk is able to act, but he actually finishes putting the Monado to his back on frame 45 & then lets go of the handle on frame 46.

Up tilt

Blade hits on frame 11-23
Beam hits on frame 13-23
FAF is 40

Shulk grabs the Monado on frame 2. On frame 3, a Monado opening sound can be heard. On frame 9, a Monado slash sound can be heard. The Monado then starts to open on frame 11 & form the ether blade on frame 12. Monado stays open at frame 20 but starts to retract on frame 21 finishing on frame 22, & the hitbox ends on frame 23 while the ether gradually disappears. Shulk returns the Monado on his back & lets go of it on frame 35, yet his FAF is 40.

Down tilt

Blade & Beam hit on frame 10-11
FAF is 32

Shulk grabs the Monado on frame 1. On frame 2, the Monado starts to open up & the ether blade appears on frame 3. On frame 5, a Monado slash sound can be heard. On frame 8, a Monado opening sound can be heard. Frame 9 looks to be a potential hitbox frame. The Monado starts to retract on frame 17 finishing on frame 18 while ether gradually disappears. On either frame 38, Shulk puts the Monado on his back.

Forward smash

straightforward Fsmash1 hits on frame 14-15
angled up or down Fsmash1 hits on frame 14-16
Blade & Beam Fsmash2 hits on frame 23
FAF is 68

Shulk grabs the Monado on frame 3. On frame 10, a drawback whoosh sound can be hard. On frame 13, the Monado's inner circle lining around the center lights up. On frame 14, the Monado is surrounded by ether & is the first hitbox frame of Fsmash1. On frame 15, a shout from Shulk can be heard. From frame 14-21 the Monado remains highlighted with a thin layer of ether, so this window could of been hitbox-worthy regardless of angle. On frame 20, a Monado opening sound can be heard. On frame 22, a big flash of light emits from the Monado & the ether blade starts to take form, so this could of been a worthy hitbox for Fsmash1 or Fsmash2. On frame 22, a loud Monado opening sound can be heard. Frame 24 still has the Monado thrusted forward until Shulk starts to pull the Monado back on frame 25. Additionally, the Monado opens up & the ether blade is visible on frame 23, but starts to close on frame 45 & finishes closing on frame 49. On frame 46, the ether blade starts to disappear while the Monado is retracting. On frame 62, Shulk places the Monado on his back & lets go of it.

Up smash

Usmash1 hits on frame 18-21 if it's the grounded knockup effect only
Usmash1 up close hits on frame 18-29
Usmash2 hits on frame 30-33
FAF is 68

Shulk grabs the Monado on frame 5. On frame 17, the Monado's inner circle lining around the center lights up. On frame 18, the Monado is surrounded by ether. On frame 18, a shout from Shulk can be heard. This ether surrounding the Monado lasts from frame 18-28. On frame 28, a Monado opening sound can be heard. On frame 29, a big flash of light emits from the Monado while also showing the ether blade starting to shoot out. On frame 29, a loud Monado opening sound can be heard. On frame 30, the Monado opens up while the ether blade shoots out & becomes an active hitbox from frame 30-33. However, the ether blade remains visually out there even on frame 45, so frame 30-45 could of been a possibility. On frame 46, the Monado starts to retract & finishes retracting on frame 50. On frame 49, the ether blade starts to dissipate & finishes dissipating on frame 52 with particles still about. On frame 68, Shulk places the Monado on his back & is able to act on this same frame with holding shield, letting go of the handle on frame 69.

Down smash

Blade & Beam Dsmash1 hits on frame 18-19
Blade & Beam Dsmash2 hits on frame 23-24
Blade & Beam Dsmash3 hits on frame 28-29
Blade & Beam Dsmash4 hits on frame 35-36
Blade & Beam Dsmash5 hits on frame 41-42
FAF is 83

Shulk grabs the Monado on frame 3, & the Monado starts to open at this time. On frame 5, the Monado's inner circle lining around the center lights up. On frame 5, the ether blade starts to form from the Monado & it instantly shoots out at max length on frame 6. On frame 11, a shout from Shulk & a Monado whoosh sound can be heard together. On frame 25, another Monado whoosh sound can be heard. On frame 40, another Monado whoosh sound can be heard. Somewhere around frame 48-50, the Monado is swung behind Shulk in a way that this could have been the fabled 6th hit of Dsmash aka the 3rd hit from behind. On frame 75, the Monado starts to retract & finishes retracting on frame 77. Additionally, frame 75-77 is also when the ether blade starts & finishes dissipating, leaving ether particles gradually vanishing soon after. Shulk is able to act on frame 83 with holding shield, yet Shulk puts the Monado on his back during frame 89 & lets go of the handle too.

Neutral air

Blade & Beam hit on frame 13-30
FAF is 71
Autocancel window is 80>

Shulk grabs the Monado on frame 3. On frame 12 the ether blade inside the Monado appears, but the Monado itself doesn't open. On frame 11, a Monado opening sound can be heard. On frame 13, the Monado opens up & the ether blade forms, making this the first hitbox frame of the move. Neutral air's last active hitbox ends on frame 30, yet from frame 31-39 could of been hitbox-worthy. On frame 35, the Monado's ether sword trail effect changes or ends which could mark the potential end of the hitbox if it wasn't intended to linger longer than that. On frame 40, the Monado will start to retract & finishes retracting on frame 45. On frame 65, Shulk puts the Monado on his back, yet he's not able to act with a doublejump until frame 71 or even autocancel until frame 80 or higher.

Forward air

Blade & Beam hit on frame 14-18
FAF is 42
Autocancel window is 57>

Shulk grabs the Monado on frame 5. On frame 10, a slash sound effect can be heard. Onframe 12, a Monado opening sound can be heard. On frame 12, a lightly-white colored outline of a circle appears but nothing else. On frame 13, the Monado starts to open & form the ether blade but it is not a potential hitbox for whatever reason. From frame 13-19, the ether blade remains constant which can validate that being a worthy hitbox window, but on frame 20 the Monado will start to retract & finish on frame 21 as the ether particles disappear on frame 24. On frame 21, the Monado's inner circle lining reverts back to the original blue color. From frame 24-41, it looks to be basically in the same general location behind Shulk, but yet when the Monado is still behind Shulk, he's able to act on frame 42 with a doublejump. The Monado is placed on Shulk's back during frame 55, yet his autocancel window is frame 57 or higher.

Back air

"Early" hit hits on frame 18-20
Blade & Beam Late hit hits on frame 21-22
FAF is 55
Autocancel window is 79>

Shulk grabs the Monado on frame 3. On frame 10, a Monado sound can be heard. On frame 14, a Monado opening sound can be heard. On frame 17, the Monado opens & the ether blade starts forming with a large white flash in the glass circle, so this could potentially be a hitbox. On frame 19, the Monado is diagonal but directly underneath Shulk. On frame 20, the Monado is pointed directly behind Shulk. The late hitbox of Back air finishes on frame 22, yet the Monado stays out there barely moving from frame 23-27, so that could of been hitbox-worthy. On frame 31, the Monado starts closing & fully retracts on frame 37. On frame 34, the ether blade will start to dissapate & vanish on frame 35 while the surrounding ether particles disappear gradually. On frame 35, the Monado's inner circle linings revert back to the original blue color. On frame 58, Shulk puts the Monado on his back, yet he can't autocancel until frame 79 or higher.

Up air

Uair1 hits on frame 14-15
Blade & Beam Uair2 hits on frame 24-25
FAF 60
Autocancel window is 79>

Shulk reaches his arms up, & the Monado magically teleports to his right hand on frame 4. On frame 10, a Monado sound can be heard. On frame 13, the Monado becomes surrounded by ether which could of been hitbox-worthy. On frame 18, a Monado opening sound can be heard. From frame 14-23, the Monado is highlighted with ether so this could of been a hitbox window. On frame 24, the Monado starts to open & the ether blade erupts continuing to be a hitbox on frame 25. As the Up air's second hit begins, ether particles emit from the Monado on frame 26. The ether blade for the second hit is seen from frame 24-43, but the Monado starts retracting on frame 44 & finishes retracting on frame 46. On frame 63, Shulk returns the Monado on his back but lets go of it on frame 64, yet the autocancel frame is 79 or higher.

Down air

Dair1 hits on frame 14-15
Blade & Beam Dair2 hits on frame 23-24
FAF is 61
Autocancel window is 78>

Shulk grabs a hold of the Monado on frame 3. On frame 13, the Monado is highlighted by a thin layer of ether, so this could of been a potential hitbox. On frame 16, a Monado sound can be heard. On frame 21, a Monado opening sound can be heard. The highlighted ether effect lasts for frame 13-21 for the first hit. On frame 22, a big flash of light emits from the Monado & the ether blade starts to take form, so this could of been a hitbox for the second hit. On frame 23-24, the second hit's hitbox becomes active during this time, which is also when the Monado opens up & the ether blade shoots out. From frame 25-41, the Monado stays out, so this could of been a hitbox window. On frame 42, the Monado starts to retract & finishes on frame 45. On frame 64, Shulk moves his right arm back & the Monado teleports to his back, yet he can't autocancel until frame 78 or higher.

Bubble Shield

Perfect shield window is frame 1-3
Locked into shield is frame 4-11 (8 frames minimum)
Shield drop lag is frame 12-18 (7 frames)
FAF is 19

On frame 2, a sound can be heard. Shulk grabs the Monado on frame 3. On frame 8, Shulk finishes bringing the Monado in front of him for protection & remains that way on frame 11, until frame 12 which is when shield drop occurs if you didn't hold shield. On frame 13, another sound can be heard. From frame 12-18 shows Shulk put the Monado on his back, but it's frame 19 that the Monado teleports to Shulk's back. Interestingly enough, frame 19 is the exact frame Shulk is able to act like every other character. Still, the Monado being placed on his back at this exact frame matches up perfectly with the intended design.

Pummel

Pummel hits on frame 5
IASA frame 27
IASA including hitlag is frame 35

On frame 2, Shulk lifts the Monado off his back. On frame 5, Shulk whacks the opponent with the very end of the Monado's hilt. On frame 5 a whacking sound can be heard. After 9 frames of hitlag, the opponent starts flinching for their respective animation. On frame 26, Shulk fully places the Monado on his back which is also the same exact frame he's able to act with another pummel or throw.

Forward throw

Fthrow1 hits on frame 15
Fthrow2 hits on frame 16
FAF is 38
FAF including freeze-frames is 44

On frame 3, a sound can be heard. On frame 6, a Monado opening sound can be heard. On frame 7, the Monado starts to open. On frame 8, the Monado's ether blade starts to form. On frame 8, a Monado sound can be heard. On frame 9, the ether blade grows to its full size for the attack & the outer grooves start shining brightly. On frame 15, a Monado sound can be heard. After 7 frames of hitlag, frame 16 is Fthrow2's hitbox occurs. On frame 29, the Monado starts to close along with the ether blade starting to dissipate. On frame 31, the Monado's inner circle lining reverts back to the original blue. On frame 32, the Monado fully closes & on frame 33 the ether blade vanishes. On frame 38, Shulk is able to act but he doesn't finish putting the Monado on his back. On frame 46, Shulk places the Monado on his back, On frame 47, Shulk lets go of the Monado's hilt.

Back throw

Bthrow1 hits on frame 18
Bthrow2 hits on frame 20
FAF is 45
FAF including freeze-frames is 51

On frame 5, a sound can be heard. On frame 16, a bright light of ether shines, emitting from the center rising up the Monado. On frame 17, a Monado opening sound can be heard. On frame 17, the ether blade seems to be at its full size but the Monado doesn't open up. On frame 18, the Bthrow1 becomes a hitbox as well as the outer lining of the Monado lights up brightly to signify a hitbox indication. Onframe 18, a Monado attack sound can be heard. During the 7 frames of hitlag, the Monado is slowly but surely opening up & after the hitlag finishes, the Monado on frame 19 piercing backwards fully opens. On frame 19, a Monado sound can be heard. Then on frame 20, the Bthrow2 hitbox begins. On frame 28, the Monado starts to close & on frame 32, the Monado fully closes. On frame 30, the ether blade starts dissipating & fully vanishes on frame 33. On frame 31, the outer lining of the Monado dims back to the regular blue color. And on frame 46 Shulk places the Monado on his back & lets go of it too.

Up throw

Uthrow1 hits on frame 20
Uthrow2 hits on frame 22
FAF is 48
FAF including freeze-frames is 56

On frame 3, a sound can be heard. On frame 15, a Monado opening sound can be heard. On frame 19, the ether blade starts to form within the Monado. On frame 19, a Monado attack sound can be heard. On frame 20, a Monado piercing sound can be heard. On frame 20, the Monado opens & becomes fully open, which is also Uthrow1's hitbox & the outer lining of the Monado shines brightly. After the 9 frames of hitlag, Uthrow2's hitbox becomes active on frame 22. On frame 21, another Monado attack sound can be heard together. On frame 37, the Monado starts closing up & the ether blade begins to dissipate too. On frame 38 or 39, the Monado fully closes. On frame 40, the ether blade fully dissipates but ether particles still remain. On frame 55. Shulk places the Monado on his back & lets go of it too.

Down throw

Dthrow1 hits on frame 23
Dthrow2 hits on frame 25
FAF is 44
FAF including freeze-frames is 50

On frame 5, a sound can be heard. On frame 12, another sound can be heard. On frame 17, a Monado opening sound can be heard. On frame 21, a bright flash of light starts to emit from the center glass circle of the Monado. On frame 21, a Monado hitting sound can be heard. On frame 22, the Monado fully opens up & the outer linings shine brightly. On frame 23, Dthrow1's hitbox begins. On frame 23, a Monado piercing sound can be heard. After 7 frames of hitlag, Dthrow2's hitbox becomes active on frame 25. On frame 30, the ether blade starts dissipating, while on frame 31 the Monado starts closing quickly & the outer linings revert back to the regular blue color. On frame 32, the Monado fully closes. On frame 33, the ether blade fully dissipates. On frame 47, Shulk places the Monado on his back.

Ledge Attack

hits on frame 24-26
Intangibility starts on frame 1-21
FAF is 56

On frame 5, Shulk takes the Monado off his back & grabs hold of it too. On frame 11, the Monado starts to open up & form the ether blade. On frame 20, a Monado sound can be heard. On frame 34, the Monado starts to retract & finishes closing on frame 36. The Monado's ether blade starts to expand a large blue area around it as it starts dissipating, & finishes dissipating on frame 42. On frame 55, Shulk places the Monado on his back as well as letting go of it. However, Shulk acts on frame 56.

Floor Attack (front)

Hit1 hits on frame 17-18
Hit2 hits on frame 21-22
Intangibility starts on frame 1-22
FAF is 46

On frame 9, Shulk grabs hold of the Monado's handle. On frame 11, the Monado starts to open up. On frame 13, the Monado starts to form the ether blade. On frame 30, the Monado's ether blade starts to dissipate & finishes dissipating on frame 31. On frame 31, the Monado starts closing & finishes closing on frame 34. On frame 49, Shulk is placing the Monado on his back but ports to his back without showing the animation of his hand reaching that far.

Floor Attack (back)

Hit1 hits on frame 17-18
Hit2 hits on frame 21-22
Intangibility starts on frame 1-22
FAF is 46

On frame 9, Shulk grabs hold of the Monado's handle. On frame 10, the Monado starts to open up. On frame 11, the ether blade starts to form. On frame 13, the Monado becomes fully open & ready. On frame 29, the Monado starts to retract. On frame 35, the Monado fully retracts. On frame 31, the ether blade starts to dissipate. On frame 32, the ether blade vanishes but leaves behind ether particles on frame 33 & 34. On frame 55, Shulk puts the Monado on his back & lets go of it too.

Floor Attack (trip)

Hit1 hits on frame 19-20
Hit2 hits on frame 23-24
Intangibility starts on frame 1-7
FAF is 50

On frame 10, Shulk grabs hold of the Monado's handle. On frame 12, the ether blade starts to take form. On frame 13, the ether blade becomes full size. On frame 13, the Monado starts to open up & becomes fully open on frame 16. On frame 33, the Monado starts to retract. On frame 36, the Monado fully closes. On frame 36, the ether blade starts dissipating & finishes dissipating on frame 37 leaving behind ether particles. On frame 51, Shulk puts the Monado on his back & lets go of it too.

Back Slash

Startup hits on frame 22-23 or 24
Falling phase hits on frame 24 or 25 - falling
Landing phase hits on frame 1-2
Additional note: If Back Slash was inputted on the floor & didn't hit anything, your Back Slash landing phase will occur on frame 33. Frame 33 would mark as frame 1 of the landing phase hitbox, so when I say something like, "On frame 69, Shulk places the Monado on his back but lets go of the handle on frame 70.", then that means that Shulk put the Monado on his back on frame 37 of the landing phase & lets go of the Monado on frame 38.

Shulk grabs a hold of the Monado on frame 6. On frame 8, he sometimes will shout Backslash. On frame 8, a sound can be heard. On frame 19, a Monado opening sound can be heard. On frame 20, a Monado sound can be heard. On frame 21, a small orb of red light emits from the transparent circle near its center. On frame 22, the Monado opens up & the ether blade appears, marking this the first hitbox of Back Slash becoming active above Shulk & continues to be a constant hitbox until landing. If you stand from the floor & input Back Slash, you will land on the 33rd frame. And so, on frame 33 the landing phase hitbox of Back Slash starts & ends on frame 34. On frame 46, the Monado starts to retract & the ether blade begins to dissipate, finishing the retraction & dissipation on frame 52. On frame 69, Shulk places the Monado on his back but lets go of the handle on frame 70. On frame 73, Shulk is able to act by holding shield.

Air Slash

Early startup of AS1 hits on frame 10-11
Middle AS1 hits on frame 12-14
Late AS1 hits on frame 15-17
AS2 hits on frame 15-16
landing lag is 30 frames
Additional notes: Frame 1 of AS2 starts on frame 22 of AS1 as soon as possible. In other words, if you try to mash AS2, you have to go through frame 1-21 of AS1 prior to AS2.

Air Slash 1
On frame 3, a Monado opening sound can be heard. Shulk grabs a hold of the Monado on frame 4. On frame 8, a big flash of red light emits from the transparent circle near its center that flows up the Monado. On frame 9, the red ether blade forms outside of the Monado despite that the Monado doesn't open up & a tiny singular spike effect also starts to form. On frame 9, Shulk will sometimes shout Airslash. On frame 9, a Monado slash sound can be heard. On frame 10, the Monado starts to open up & becomes the first hitbox frame along with the spike effect growing large. On frame 11, multiple spikes as a visual effect takes place but the effect vanishes as a whole on frame 18. On frame 22 of the first hit, the Monado starts to retract & finishes retracting on frame 25 or 26. On frame 23, the Monado's ether blade scatters & starts to dissipate, finishing on frame 29. When you don't input AS2, Shulk will do a slow turning animation. While Shulk is putting the Monado on his back, the Monado magically moves to his back on its own during frame 48 as Shulk lets go of it. On frame 64, special fall-frames start appearing marking this the first frame Shulk enters free-fall state. On frame 65, you can begin a fast fall.

Air Slash 2
On frame 3, a Monado opening sound can be heard. On frame 11, a Monado swooshing slash sound can be heard. On frame 22, you'll see frame 1 of AS2. And on frame 1 of AS2 a large flash of red light come from the Monado while the ether blade retracts back inside the Monado. On frame 2 of AS2, the ether blade shoots back out. So on frame 31 of AS2, the Monado starts to retract & seems to finish retracting on frame 33. On frame 31, the ether blade starts to brighten up & then begins to dissipate until it finishes dissipating on frame 37, leaving ether particles behind. On frame 50 of AS2, Shulk places the Monado on his back & lets go of it. On frame 65, Shulk starts to go into special freefall state. And on frame 66, you can begin a fast fall.

Vision

Intangibility happens on frame 6-7?
Fresh counter window: 7-41
Standing counter whiff FAF=70
Counterattack FAF=97
Aerial counterattack IASA=97
Forwarded counterattack FAF=65

Standing counter window
On frame 3, a Monado opening sound can be heard. Shulk grabs a hold of the Monado on frame 5. On frame 6, a pick-up sound can be heard. On frame 45, another pick-up sound can be heard. On frame 55, Shulk places the Monado on his back & starts letting go of it, yet his FAF is 70.

-First successive Vision & then trying the Second Vision won't even last to frame 33. Aka it's frame 7-32.
-Second successive Vision & then trying the Third Vision won't even last to frame 25. Aka it's frame 7-24.
-Third successive Vision & then trying the Fourth Vision won't even last to frame 18. Aka it's frame 7-17.
-Fourth successive Vision & then trying the Fifth Vision won't even last to frame 14. Aka it's frame 7-13.
-Fifth successive Vision & then trying the Sixth Vision won't even last to frame 12. Aka it's frame 7-11. This is the lowest cap given that you fully stale Vision.
~
-Mashing the first Vision whiff & then using the second Vision counter, it won't even last to frame 31. Aka it's frame 7-30.
-Mashing the second Vision whiff & then using the third Vision counter, it won't even last to frame 23. Aka it's frame 7-22.
-Mashing the third Vision whiff & then using the fourth Vision counter, it won't even last to frame 18. Aka it's frame 7-17.
-Mashing the Fourth Vision whiff & then using the fifth Vision counter, it won't even last to frame 14. Aka it's frame 7-13.
-Mashing the fifth Vision whiff & then using the sixth Vision counter, it won't even last to frame 12, Aka it's frame 7-11. This is when you fully stale Vision after mashing intentionally for whiffing purposes.

During counterattack
On frame 3, the Monado starts opening. On frame 4, the ether blade starts to take form but fully grows to max size on frame 5. On frame 8, the Monado fully opens & becomes ready. On frame 9, Shulk starts to step back. On frame 36, Shulk grabs the Monado's handle with his left hand. On frame 45-46, Shulk initiates the hitbox activity. On frame 69, the Monado starts to retract & finishes retracting on frame 73. On frame 87, Shulk puts the Monado on his back as well as letting go of it too. On frame 97, Shulk is able to act with holding shield.

During aerial counterattack
On frame 3, the Monado starts opening. On frame 4, you'll see a line of ether start to form but it's on frame 5 when the ether blade takes form & becomes full sized. On frame 8, the Monado fully opens & becomes ready. On frame 9, Shulk starts an animation of stepping back (in midair? lol). On frame 36, Shulk grabs the Monado's handle with his left hand. On frame 69, the Monado starts to retract & finishes retracting on frame 73? On frame 87, Shulk puts the Monado on his back & lets go of the Monado's handle too. On frame 97, Shulk is able to act with a doublejump.

During Forwarded counterattack
On frame 3, the Monado starts opening. On frame 5, the ether blade becomes fully grown to max size. On frame 8, the Monado fully opens & becomes ready. On frame 9, Shulk starts to advance forward. On frame 28, the Monado is slashed in front of Shulk very briefly, so this may have been a worthy hitbox? On frame 44, the Monado starts to retract & finishes retracting on frame 49. The ether blade starts dissipating on frame 50 & finishes vanishing on frame 51, some ether particles still around. On frame 64, Shulk puts the Monado on his back & lets go of the Monado's handle too, but acts on frame 65.

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MY SOLUTION(S):

DISCLAIMER: If Shulk got all of these endlag, startup, and or hitbox activity buffs, then Monado arts would have nerfs to tone down their buffs & debuffs for the sake of balance. If none of the endlag startup or hitbox activity buffs happen, then I'd buff, nerf, or balance Monado arts in this way.

Monado art Balance changes

Monado art duration decreased (960 frames (16 seconds) → 900 frames (15 seconds))
Why: To address a better balance of frames duration across all art variants.
OPTIONAL: Negate the received hitlag / shield hitlag from factoring into the art's activation
Why: Y'know those times when you DI'd a throw angle & mashed B to deactivate the current art & then cycled to Shield in hopes to live, right? But then, you get attacked by a multi-hitting move & because the move hits multiple times, your art results in activating only after the final hit which deals the high knockback killing you off the top. It's fine that your attacks possessing hitlag in the dealing end delays the art's activation because then your Art Landing Cancel might be mis-timed, but receiving hitlag from being hit also delaying the art's activation causes a sudden flustering moment. By Shulk's current game-play, getting thrown & combo'd has to be accepted because you have no get-off-me moves other than besides Shield art's knockback reduction allowing you to act sooner than usual. Even then, you get combo'd & can do nothing.
OPTIONAL: Allow the Monado arts to be deactivated & cycled during more instances
Why: This isn't necessary, but it would help at the very least. At some points you're able to cycle or deactivate arts & at other points you're not able to. From a standpoint of per-say standing on the revival platform, you for whatever reason cannot cycle arts to select one, yet you're clearly in a standing position on the revival platform & you can cycle arts standing regularly.
★Allow the option to buffer an art's deactivation while holding the joystick in a direction★
Why: When performing a move with endlag & buffering Jump art's deactivation, Shulk players are forced to jump in stationary position without drifting in a direction UNTIL the art deactivates immediately after jumpsquat finishes. The flaw with this is you don't retain enough of the art's air speed to drift to the direction you need to get to for said followup. As a result, you jump really high & stay afloat for a good moment but because you can't hold the joystick in a direction while doing this, your buffered deactivation + the airdodge or aerial you inputted only retains a bit of Jump art's air speed instead of most of it. For a different yet relevant example, Speed art can retain most of its dash speed from a buffered deactivation.

翔(Monado Jump) Balance changes

★Gravity increased, reducing Jump Shulk's SH Air Time (frame 43 → <43)★
Why: Jump Shulk is the only character in the game that takes 4 frames of Hard Lag when short hopping & casually falling to the ground. If Jump Shulk had less than 43 frames of Air Time from Short Hop, then he'd likely take the universal 2 frames of Soft Lag like every other character. And this wouldn't change the amount of jump force or how high Jump Shulk leaps into the air, but again, it would make him reach his max fall speed at a faster rate.
Damage Taken multiplier increased (1.22x → 1.25x)
Why: For an art that grants a lot of recovery & boosting stat changes to Shulk's aerial mobility, getting hit & stringed into a combo costs you a lot of damage that makes you think twice before approaching. However, I'm increasing the multiplier along with the assumed Gravity increase above to help counteract the amount of hitstun you take from vertical knockback. This way, Shulk may not get combo'd as much.
Floor jumpsquat reduced (5 → 4)
Footstool jumpsquat reduced (7 → 6)
Why: No real reason, other than to emphasize that when you choose to JUMP in the air with Short Hop or Full Hop, that you would understand why you'd leap into the air quicker than any character. The fastest jumpsquat in the game is 4 frames shared by more than several characters that have better frame data than Shulk anyhow, so it wouldn't hurt if Jump art reduced the jumpsquat frames.
Air Acceleration increased (0.04 → 0.07)
Air Deceleration changed?
Why: Shulk gets a lot of mileage from drifting towards a direction. However, when you decide to drift toward the opposite direction you feel sluggish & the result is you don't weave through the air that well in the art. So if Jump art granted more Air Acceleration & Deceleration, you'd weave through the air a lot more smoothly & have a dominate presence in the air like you should be.

疾(Monado Speed) Balance changes

Air Acceleration increased (0.04 → 0.055)
Air Deceleration changed?
Why: Same as Jump art, but not as much. The consensus about Speed art is that it makes Shulk play a much more dominant ground-game than air-game, but you still want to be able to weave somewhat better than you do currently. With how the art decreases jump height causing a loss of Air Time, you won't be using the weaving too much except for when you decide to Full Hop and or use your doublejump.
★Dodges improved★
-Spotdodge: intangibility increased (frame 3-18 → frame 2-18)
-Spotdodge: endlag reduced (FAF 28 → FAF 27)
~
-Forward / Back roll: intangibility increased (frame 4-17 → frame 3-17)
-Forward / Back roll: endlag reduced (FAF 31 → FAF 30)
~
-Airdodge: intangibility increased (frame 3-28 → frame 2-28)
-Airdodge: endlag reduced (FAF 34 → FAF 33)
Why: Have you ever played Xenoblade Chronicles? No? Then at least know that this art in the game increases Shulk's evade rate. In other words, Shulk was able to dodge auto attacks by 95%. So to relate back to Smash Bros., Shulk's dodges would have improved frame data to make Shulk's ground-game more defensively dominating on top of playing already semi-aggressive with the art when adding a hint of bait & punish to the playstyle.

盾(Monado Shield) Balance changes

Damage Dealt multiplier increased (0.70x [−30%] → 0.75x [−25%])
Why: To grant Shield art more offensive reward for the objective to maintain a lead when you keep it.
Damage Taken multiplier reduced (0.67x [−33%] → 0.7x [−30%])
Why: To balance the damage changes between receiving & dealing damage.
★Shield friction increased★
Why: Although Speed art increases friction, the result at the end of the day is that Speed takes less shield knockback than SHIELD art. Especially because Shield art's bubble shield already has more shield health, you'd think that the art would give you stronger defensive advantages like taking less shield knockback.
OPTIONAL: Perfect shield window increased (frame 1-3 → frame 1-4)
Why: No real reason other than to make Shulk's bubble shield defensively better, encouraging more use of bubble shield for Shulk in this art.
OPTIONAL: Shield stun & Shield hitlag reduced
Why: To strengthen Monado Shield's strongest defensive tool & allow punishes out of shield to be more reactionary. Reminding that Monado Shield's weakness is heavily addressed, which is prone to getting grabbed.
Art replacement (盾(Monado Shield) → 鎧(Monado Armour))
Why: Have you ever played Xenoblade Chronicles? No? Then at least know that Monado Armour does exactly what Monado Shield does in Smash Bros.. And yet the only logical & plausible reason it's still Monado Shield is because your bubble shield is actually strengthened, but then "Armour" could translate or can mean the same thing, so.

斬(Monado Buster) Balance changes

Damage Taken multiplier increased (1.13x → 1.15x)
Why: To better address that Buster art has a more understanding risk/reward system in dealing the goods or taking the goods.
Art replacement (斬(Monado Buster) → 機(Monado Enchant))
Why: Have you ever played Xenoblade Chronicles? No? Then at least know that this art does exactly what Monado Buster does in Smash Bros.. There's no plausible or logical reason that Monado Buster does what it does in Smash Bros. because it's a strong single strike in the game.
★Damage Dealt multiplier increased against Mega Man & R.O.B. (1.4x → 1.6x)★
Why: Mechon.

撃(Monado Smash) Balance changes

★Knockback Dealt multiplier slightly increased (?x → ?x)★
Why: The damage already getting halved doesn't help Smash art's case at the moment. You have a move that has so much knockback, but even then the damage halved cripples the actual kill potential that the art could be doing with Shulk's kit. So to compensate for the already current damage cripple you'd have more knockback to make his on-hit or on-shield risk/reward play more rewarding rather than being higher risk hitting a shield.
OPTIONAL: Increase the smash charge multiplier (~1.4x → ~1.6x)
Why: No real reason other than to emphasize the extra "oomph" when connecting with a smash attack. It makes logical sense for Monado Smash to strengthen your smash attacks, but at least when you charge a smash attack you'll take additional knockback. This will balance & bite back on Monado Smash & address the risk/reward factor of the art.

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OPTIONAL = Isn't necessary, but could be interesting

Jab3 Balance changes (OPTIONAL)

Early sweetspot startup reduced (frame 12-13 → frame 11-13)
Why: The Monado is surrounded by a layer of ether on frame 10 behind Shulk, but it's so far out of the z-axis behind Shulk that it probably couldn't become a worthy hitbox frame currently. On frame 11 though, the Monado's blade is directly in front of Shulk & it's facing down toward the floor as if Shulk is stabbing the ground. So on frame 11, the Monado would be capable of hitting any character crouching & opponents hanging on the ledge more reliably. The Monado on frame 13 points directly forward in front of Shulk, which can end off as the last hitbox frame of the sweetspot as it is currently.
Late sourspot duration increased (frame 14 → frame 14-18)
Why: For this entire duration, the Monado is swung high up above Shulk but regardless the layer of ether is shown to be active this entire time. The sourspot would be reliable for hitting floaties and lightweights that fall out of the Jab combo. Players / friends that I talk to about Shulk's Jab3 didn't know about a sourspot until I mentioned about it. That tells you just how obscure it is.
Endlag increased (FAF 45 → FAF 48)
Why: From the compensation of hitbox duration buffs for the sweet & sourspots of Jab3, I'd increase the endlag of Jab3 by 3 frames. This is to help better match the animation of Shulk putting the Monado on his back on this exact frame.

Dash Attack Balance changes (OPTIONAL)

OPTIONAL: Introduce a B&B damage change for Dash Attack (11.5% → 13.5%/12%)
Why: To create a B&B rule for the move to reflect the very common mechanic of the Monado's damages. Before, if Shulk players wanted to be extremely safe while at the same time land the move, they'd spaced with the outer region of the move in Buster art. But now, a new Blade hitbox would help slightly beef up the move so that the Buster damage might actually make it safe on a good amount of characters shielding should the move be spaced correctly. This also beefs up the move's kill potential.
Endlag increased (FAF 53 → FAF 54)
Why: For balance & to better match Shulk puting the Monado on his back. Since on frame 53, Shulk is able to act, but he actually finishes putting the Monado to his back on frame 54.

Forward tilt Balance changes (OPTIONAL)

OPTIONAL: Possess the ability to angle the move up & down
Why: Frame data shouldn't be different if there were angling. The issue with Ftilt right now is that the hitbox is a side slash that doesn't have a way of covering below the attack, so tiny characters or character's hurtbox flattening against the ground completely avoid Ftilt.
Endlag increased (FAF 44 → FAF 45)
Why: To better match the exact frame that Shulk puts the Monado on his back during frame 45.
OPTIONAL: Increase the B&B damages (13.5%/12% → 14%/12.5%)
Why: Despite that Shulk has long range, Ftilt is surprisingly short & cannot be angled. So a damage buff alone is enough to compensate for a lack-of range buff if nothing else is done.

Up smash Balance changes (OPTIONAL)

OPTIONAL: Ground-only knockback angle changed (105° → 110°)
Why: Often times you read an option with Usmash & end up getting the ground-only knockup hitbox that sends them into the second hit. Unfortunately, an opponent who is mindful will DI away from the attack & be barely grazed by the erupting second hitting ether blade. So ultimately a slightly different knockback angle to launch them more towards the ether blade second hit is a neat change.
OPTIONAL: Alter Usmash1's BKB & KBG values so that fast-fallers can't land to block Usmash2
Why: This is self-explanatory. When you read a ledge getup option or whatever option with Usmash, fast-fallers get hit by Usmash1, but can tap down or just simply hold shield during the whole move to eventually perfect shield in time for Usmash2. To alleviate this & confirm a sure-kill, just link the moves together so that it doesn't happen.
OPTIONAL: Introduce a B&B damage change for Up smash (13.5% → 13.5%/11%)
Why: To create a B&B rule for the move to reflect the very common mechanic of the Monado's damages. Before, Shulk players would use Usmash & the second hit would become a tall & large pillar-like hitbox that's just one solid damage output. However, whether you hit someone beside you or someone airborne above you the result was the same. And personally that's a bit nuts if you ask me. So now, the current hitbox can be the Blade and the new introduced hitbox outside of that would be the Beam shooting upward. It would all be synchronized like Fsmash & Dsmash & many other of Shulk's hitboxes are currently.

Down smash Balance changes (OPTIONAL)

Endlag increased (FAF 83 → FAF 89)
Why: To better compensate the exact frame Shulk puts the Monado on his back, which is on frame 89. This would also slightly balance the move for the damage buffs.
OPTIONAL: Damages increased. Blades 1-5 get +2%, Beam1 gets +3%, & Beams 2-5 get +2%
-Dsmash1 14%/11% → 16%/14%
-Dsmash2 12%/10% → 14%/12%
-Dsmash3 10%/8% → 12%/10%
-Dsmash4 8%/6% → 10%/8%
-Dsmash5 6%/4% → 8%/6%
Why: The move by itself never links all hits under normal circumstances except for hitting an opponent's shield. Even then, if you're in Vanilla or Buster art then your uncharged Dsmash1 Blade hit from the front will shieldlock the opponent & allow Dsmash3 to hit their shield. However, Speed Shield & Smash art deal too little damage to shieldlock with uncharged Dsmash1 into Dsmash3. You'll need to charge the move not to mention that anyone can simply hold shield for all three hits from the front or both hits from the back & easily punish Shulk. Although, Buster Dsmash is threatening & is worth using in small enclosed areas.

Forward throw Balance changes (OPTIONAL)

Endlag increased (FAF 38 → FAF 46)
Why: To better match up the animation of when Shulk puts the Monado on his back, which is frame 46.
OPTIONAL: BKB increased (BKB 60 → BKB 65)
OPTIONAL: KBG increased (KBG 70 → KBG 75)
Why: To compensate for the increase of endlag, Fthrow becomes a better stage-control & kill throw.

Back throw Balance changes (OPTIONAL)

Endlag increased (FAF 45 → FAF 46)
Why: To better match up the animation of when Shulk puts the Monado on his back, which is frame 46.
OPTIONAL: KBG increased (KBG 63 → KBG 65)
Why: To slightly compensation for the increase of endlag, Bthrow kills 1-2% sooner.

Up throw Balance changes (OPTIONAL)

Uthrow1's 1.5x hitlag modifier removed (9 freeze-frames → 6 freeze-frames)
Why: Unlike Fthrow1 Bthrow1 & Dthrow1 which don't have a strong reason to remove them, the reason to remove Uthrow's hitlag is more recommended & necessary. Going through 9 freeze-frames for a throw hitbox that only deals 3% is nonsense, & any unnecessary freeze-frames removed is better in the long run.
Endlag increased (FAF 48 → FAF 55)
Why: To better match up the animation of when Shulk puts the Monado on his back, which is frame 55.
OPTIONAL: KBG increased (KBG 80 → KBG 100)
Why: As an additional buff compensation for the increase of endlag, Uthrow becomes a reliable kill throw for the sacrifice of losing all of it's combo potential & followups from before.

Down throw Balance changes (OPTIONAL)

Endlag increased (FAF 44 → FAF 47)
Why: To better match up the animation of when Shulk puts the Monado on his back, which is frame 47.
OPTIONAL: BKB decreased (BKB 75 → BKB 65)
OPTIONAL: KBG increased (KBG 115 → KBG 120)
Why: As an additional buff compensation for the increase of endlag, Dthrow becomes a slightly better combo throw at early percents while also becoming a slightly better kill throw.
OPTIONAL: Knockback angle changed (50° → 70°)
Why: As an additional buff compensation for the increase of endlag, Dthrow hopefully becomes a better combo throw at early percents leading into Fair, Air Slash, etc..

Floor Attack (front) Balance changes (OPTIONAL)

Endlag increased (FAF 46 → FAF 49)
Why: To better match when Shulk puts the Monado on his back. This is the same frame that he lets go of it too.
Intangibility increased (frame 1-22 → frame 1-24)
Why: No real reason other than compensating additional i-frames for the endlag increase for a in-between balance.

Floor Attack (back) Balance changes (OPTIONAL)

Endlag increased (FAF 46 → FAF 55)
Why: To better match when Shulk puts the Monado on his back. This is the same frame that he lets go of it too.
Intangibility increased (frame 1-22 → frame 1-30)
Why: No real reason other than compensating additional i-frames for the endlag increase for a in-between balance.

Floor Attack (trip) Balance changes (OPTIONAL)

Endlag increased (FAF 50 → FAF 51)
Why: To better match when Shulk puts the Monado on his back. This is the same frame that he lets go of it too.

Air Slash Balance changes (OPTIONAL)

B-Reverse window reduced (frame 9 → frame 8)
Why: Currently you can B-Reverse or turn around AS1 on frame 9, but visually the Monado starts to emit a red ether glow from inside.
Introduce AS1's frame 10 startup to a B&B damage change
(6% with the 78° → 7% with the 78°)
(6% with the 91° → 6% for the 91°)
Why: Did you know that AS1's frame 10 startup has two different knockback angles? To get the 78° angle, you have to hit within range of the Monado sword to get this angle, but if you space the attack while still being within AS1's range, you get the 91°. However, getting the 91° angle is very easy since this range is larger & more likely to happen than the smaller ranged space that results with the 78° angle. Basically, the 78° & the 91° angles require the same kind of spacing you'd do with Blade & Beam but without having different damages of said "Blade 78°" & "Beam 91°".
AS1's Late hitbox damage reduced (5% → 4%)
Why: For damage compensation between the Early startup & this Late phase. For the Middle phase, you're dealing 5% with very little difference between the two possible knockback angles (85° & 86°) & the weight-based knockback values (80 & 70). However, the Late phase has two different knockback angles (52° & 70°) with only one weight-based knockback value (43), & currently the damage is still 5%.
Rising AS1's ledgegrab reduced (frame 27 → frame 26)
Why: On frame 26, this is the exact frame that Shulk starts to descend from the Air Slash's height as well as the Monado fully closing on frame 25. Given this, I decided that this would be a 1 frame shave.
Initiate AS1's fastfall sequence sooner (frame 65 → frame 48)
Why: To better match a time when Shulk could act fastfalling, since Shulk is putting the Monado on his back as the Monado ports there on frame 48.
Introduce a B&B damage change for the second hit of Air Slash (5.5% → 6%/5%)
Why: No real reason other than to create a B&B rule for the move to reflect the very common mechanic of the Monado's damages.

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RECOMMENDED = The main focus

Up tilt Balance changes

Hitbox duration reduced (frame 11-23 → 11-22)
Why: Based on animations, the Monado's inner circle linings around the glass center revert to blue on frame 23, as well as the Monado is basically retracted fully on this frame.
Endlag reduced (FAF 40 → FAF 35)
Why: Shulk clearly puts the Monado on his back during frame 35 & lets go of it on frame 36, so making the FAF be 35 would be fine to match the animation visual of when Shulk should be able to act.

Forward smash Balance changes

Grant Fsmash1 the Cannot Rebound property
Why: There shouldn't be a reason to explain this nonsense. Fsmash1 clanking with jabs & even Fsmash2 clanking with tilts is nonsense, but then again it's to be blamed on multi-hit moves that are grounded that do not possess the Cannot Rebound property.
Alter Fsmash1's WBKB & KBG values so that it properly links into Fsmash2
Why: Angling Fsmash1 down would only be inputted because you really want a longer-lasting first hit for tiny characters or edgeguarding the ledge. Yet it's much easier DI'ing upward to fall up & out of Fsmash1 & not be hit by Fsmash2. And even when you angle it upwards, it's still possible for the opponent to tap up & be knocked up high enough that they'd avoid Fsmash2.
Fsmash1's duration increased (frame 14-15/16 → 14-22)
Why: The move visually shows us that ether surrounding the Monado from frame 14-21 & a flash of light shown on frame 22, meaning that this entire window could have been hitbox-worthy.
Fsmash2's duration increased (frame 23 → 23-24)
Why: A partial reason opponents fall out of Fsmash1 & avoid Fsmash2 is because Fsmash2 currently lasts for one frame. Just increasing the duration by an extra frame helps all the more, & besides, Shulk's Fsmash2 on frame 24 is in still-motion in which he's not moving or drawing back the Monado. That's not until frame 25.
Endlag reduced (FAF 68 → FAF 62)
Why: Shulk puts the Monado on his back & lets go of it on frame 62. So why is it that Shulk suffers endlag for 6 extra frames until he's able to act with holding shield? Maybe if Fsmash was a greater move, then I'd be fine with the endlag as it is currently. However, a move that barely has any duration for both hits, clanking with jabs or tilts, unsafe on shield when spaced, while moves like Corrin's Fsmash has more hitbox activity, is one hit, has more range, safe on shield when spaced, & possesses less endlag is just poor balancing.
Fsmash1's 1.5x hitlag multiplier removed (10 freeze-frames → 7)
Fsmash2's 2.0x hitlag multiplier reduced (2.0x → 1.5x)
Why: Naturally, attacks induce freeze-frames. Yet for Fsmash1 to deal 5.5% on its own having 10 freeze-frames is a bit much. Hitlag is intended to express the power of a move, but then when that "powerful move" clanks with measly jabs then the move inputted becomes an oxymoron. Fsmash1 & Fsmash2 have little hitbox activity, so right now they're reliant on the hitlag modifiers to extend the hitbox activity. Yet if my suggested hitbox window buffs for Fsmash1 & Fsmash2 became a reality, then the hitlag modifiers wouldn't need to be this high or even be necessary at all.

Pummel Balance changes

Pummel's 1.5x hitlag multiplier removed (9 freeze-frames → 6 freeze-frames)
Why: Sparknomad brought this up & once I read what he said, it actually made sense. Shulk having a hitlag multiplier for his pummel because of Buster art is understandable for balancing reasons. For my own perspective about it however, you're not going to be in Buster art all the time. The art has a ~600 frame cooldown, & it lasts for 960 frames assuming you have it on for the whole duration. Balancing one's pummel solely around whether the Shulk player uses Buster art or not is silly, but it mostly feels like an excuse to give Shulk more lag he doesn't need. Y'know what's funny? Buster art doesn't even increase the amount of freeze-frames for pummel, so you still go through 9 freeze-frames like you do in Vanilla. Meanwhile, Smash art cutting Shulk's damage in half only reduces pummel's freeze-frames by 1 frame, just like Speed & Shield art do too and their damage dealt multipliers are 0.8x & 0.7x respectively.
IASA frames reduced (IASA 27 → IASA 26)
Why: When Shulk puts the Monado on his back after a pummel, it actually happens on frame 26. This is enough of a decent reason.

Neutral air Balance changes

Hitbox duration increased (frame 13-30 → 13-40)
Why: I was going to have it as frame 12 startup, but because of my principles with the frame analysis, I couldn't go through with it. Although you start to see the ether blade shoot out from the center of the Monado, the Monado doesn't start to open until frame 13 & that's when the ether blade erupts. Additionally, I chose frame 40 to be the final hitbox frame because the move spins around in the form of a clock, as if it were intended to be active, but also because frame 40 is the very last frame the Monado's inner circle linings are lit up. Frame 41 is the first frame these inner circle linings revert to the regular blue lines, similar to how Utilt operates.
Endlag reduced (FAF 71 → FAF 60)
Why: For the attack animations from the Monado to be already finished, this is by the time Shulk is starting to place the Monado on his back, so at this point it should be alright with this much endlag. Plus this allows Shulk in Vanilla to input Full Hop Nair quickly with the ability to doublejump right before landing.
Autocancel window reduced (frame 80> → 65>)
Why: Shulk places the Monado on his back on frame 65. This can match the right time of when to autocancel.
Grant an additional autocancel window (frame 1-3)
Why: Shulk grabs ahold of the Monado on frame 3. It gives Shulk A-landing applications for an understandable window.

Forward air Balance changes

Hitbox duration increased (frame 14-18 → 14-20)
Why: Even while Shulk swings the Monado past his feet, the Monado continues to look active. Although, I chose frame 20 to be the last active hitbox frame because the Monado's glass outer circle lining still lights up brightly, similar to Utilt's design. Frame 21 is where the Monado fully closes as well as the inner circle linings around the glass center revert to blue again, & that fits perfectly.
Endlag reduced (FAF 42 → FAF 39)
Why: No reason other than to allow Vanilla Shulk to SH Fair quickly & be able to act before landing by doublejumping. This would also advocate more Vanilla-gameplay including Buster & Smash.
Autocancel window reduced (frame 57> → 55>)
Why: Shulk clearly puts the Monado on his back on frame 55. The more convincing part of the animation is that Shulk also lets go of the Monado on this frame too.
Grant an additional autocancel window (frame 1-5)
Why: Shulk grabs hold of the Monado on frame 5. It gives Shulk A-landing applications for an understandable window.

Back air Balance changes

Early startup reduced, & adds to the Early window (frame 18-20 → frame 17-20)
Why: On frame 17, the Monado opens & the ether blade starts to form, making it very easy to believe that this can be a hitbox-worthy frame.
Late duration increased (frame 21-22 → 21-25)
Why: As Shulk thrusts the Monado behind him, he still has a stand-still motion in midair during this frame window. The Monado is also barely moving & only starts to slowly move back towards Shulk on frame 27, so it cuts it close. I chose frame 25 to be the last hitbox frame for this reason, & because the hitbox could use more active frames since it is a narrow attack.
Endlag reduced (FAF 55 → FAF 50)
Why: This is about in between the moment Shulk already is placing the Monado on his back gradually, but before then the animations for the Monado such as it closing & ether particles dissipating completely have already happened & been met. So it's an alright frame for Shulk to act. Plus, Speed art Full Hop Bair would be hype if you could doublejump after.
Autocancel window reduced (frame 78> → 58>)
Why: On frame 58, Shulk puts the Monado on his back. This is more than enough of a reason.
Grant an additional autocancel window (frame 1-3)
Why: Shulk grabs ahold of the Monado on frame 3. It gives Shulk A-landing applications for an understandable window.

Up air Balance changes

Uair1 duration increased (frame 14-15 → 14-23)
Why: The move visually shows that ether surrounds the Monado from frame 13-23, which means that we'd have an aerial that lingers long enough to punish airdodges reliably. Plus, it helps with how narrow the attack is that it also assists in connecting for close-quarters while landing.
Uair2 hitbox duration increased (frame 24-25 → 24-26)
Why: No real reason why. It would match up a bit better with how frame 26 is still showing Shulk pierce upward with the move.
Endlag reduced (FAF 60 → FAF 56)
Why: Right around this time, Shulk is mid-way of putting the Monado away even after all his animations have already finished. This includes the ether blade dissipating & the particles vanishing, & the Monado has definitely closed.
Autocancel window reduced (frame 79> → 64>)
Why: On frame 63, Shulk returns the Monado on his back but lets go of it on frame 64, so all the animations of the Monado line up & can validate that an autocancel can take place on this frame & beyond.
Grant an additional autocancel window (frame 1-4)
Why: The Monado magically teleports to Shulk's right hand on frame 4. It gives Shulk A-landing applications for an understandable window.
Uair1's 1.2x hitlag multiplier removed (8 freeze-frames → 7 freeze-frames)
Why: Uair1 starting on frame 14 & only lasting until frame 15 is a dead zone until Uair coming out on frame 24. So I ask you, why would you have to go through 1 more freeze-frame more than the frames you already don't need?? Uair2 having hitlag is fine, since the move doesn't last very long, but please, don't add in additional hitlag between two hits that's already almost 10 frames apart from each other. Considering that it can be very likely you end up whiffing with Uair2 due to the move not linking depending on your drifting, the additional hitlag frames hinders more than helping link the move into itself.
OPTIONAL:
-Knockback angled changed (100° → 365°)
-96° angle becomes ground-target only (96° → 96°)
Why: To solve the problem of characters falling out of Uair. A good amount of times that a Shulk player in Jump, Speed, or when they drift too much towards a direction while catching an opponent via a read, the result can end with Uair2 whiffing. Mostly it's from Jump art due to the superior air speed drifting to a side & Shulk's air acceleration & deceleration not being good. Not to mention that with the 365° becoming a aerial-target only angle, the current 96° angle would need to become a ground-target only angle for the balance of what angle you'd get depending on your opponent's current location.

Down air Balance changes

Dair1 hitbox duration increased (frame 14-15 → 14-22)
Why: The move visually shows that ether surrounding the Monado from frame 13-22, which means that we'd have an aerial that lingers long enough to cover us from below for helping us land.
Dair2 hitbox duration increased (frame 23-24 → 23-25)
Why: It visually shows that the ether blade starts to erupt from the Monado on frame 22 but doesn't open up 'till frame 23. Dair2 with an extra hitbox frame would favorably reward more succession with landing meteor smashes offstage against characters airdodging as well as a bit more of a hitbox for helping Shulk land on the stage.
Endlag reduced (FAF 61 → FAF 56)
Why: This allows Shulk in Vanilla to Full Hop Down air, & be able to act with jumping before landing. Before, doing this only gave you one option & that was to use a special move to override the landing lag you would have taken, which even then was a telegraphed mixup & not a very safe one.
Autocancel window reduced (frame 78> → 64>)
Why: On frame 64, Shulk moves his right arm back & the Monado teleports to his back. This is the frame window I'd have Dair autocancel.
OPTIONAL: Grant an additional autocancel window (frame 1-3)
Why: Shulk grabs ahold of the Monado on frame 3. It gives Shulk A-landing applications for an understandable window.
Dair1's 1.2x hitlag modifier removed ( 9/8 freeze-frames → 7 freeze-frames)
Why: This is not as necessary to remove compared to Fsmash1 & Uair1. Dair1 to Dair2 can still link with or without a 1.2x hitlag modifier. However, because you have to think about the wide frame gap between Dair1 to Dair2, I wonder why it would need a hitlag modifier to hinder you with more frames.

Ledge Attack Balance changes

Attack range increased (12.5(?) units in Z-axis → 15.0(?) units in Z-axis)
Why: It's clear as day when you notice the lack-of presence range for Shulk's Ledge Attack when you see the sword's trailing effect slash past character's feet & they remain unscathed. That is not okay. So, a range buff to the move would help match up to what its range should be. Right now, the reason you hit with Shulk's Ledge attack, is because the opponent was within range of being hit by the red Monado sword, not the outer ether blade's sword trail.
Endlag reduced (FAF 56 → FAF 55)
Why: To better match the frame that Shulk puts the Monado on his back & lets go of it, which happens to be on frame 55. However, being only one frame off isn't a big deal. The devs did pretty well matching this conveniently when Shulk was about to put the Monado on his back.

Back Slash Balance changes

Landing phase's duration increased (frame 1-2 → 1-4)
Why: Most Shulk players that go for Back Slash are thinking 90% of the time to connect with the Startup or Falling phase of the move which is fine, but when Shulk whiffs the Back Slash because they spotdodged or rolled forward away from you, you result with taking endlag to the max & now you're on the verge of punish, for a read you had but didn't land. So to compensate for this, I'd add 2 extra hitbox frames to the Landing Phase to confirm you'll destroy their dodge option especially when you intend to go for the Landing phase. This also helps the favor that you would go for their shields with strictly the Landing phase.
Endlag reduced (FAF 41 → FAF 37)
Why: To match up the exact frame Shulk places the Monado on his back. Because Shulk is standing there with the Monado already on his back but decides to rest his arms forward & then be able to act? I don't think so.
Fix the hitbox of Back Slash on frame 24
Why: Frame 22-23 is a honest hitbox window that shows Shulk swinging the Monado above him, & anything near will be hit. However, on frame 24 the Monado's Startup & Falling phase intertwine, which for some reason causes an inconsistency with hitbox placement. This results in a dead spot that a character will not be hit on said frame.

Vision Balance changes

Vision counter's endlag reduced (FAF 70 → FAF 55)
Why: To better match with the exact frame that Shulk puts the Monado on his back, which happens to be frame 55.
★Counter frames decay adjusted (−6 counter frames with each use)★
Why: For additional balancing along with the reduced endlag. I still want Shulk's Vision counter frames to diminish with each use, but the immediate usage of Vision after both a successive or whiffed counter aren't consistent with the current Vision. Therefore, I'd adjust it so that there would be a consistent reduction to the counter frame window to match up with both types of Vision counters: Successive & Whiffing. The counter will fully stale after the fifth Vision & on the sixth Vision like it does now.
Counter window duration increased (frame 7-41 → 7-44)
Why: Due to the reduction to counter regeneration of frames. To Shulk players, this will somewhat affect their usage & judgement of Vision more often to give it more thought than to just throw out the move.
Counter frame window cap changed (frame 7-11 → 7-14)
Why: To adjust with the counter window duration increase. This way, you'll still be 30 frames away from the lowest cap to the max counter window, given you let Vision fully regenerate.
Counter regeneration frames slowed
Why: For balancing reasons due to the compensation of reduced endlag in most areas of Vision.
Ground Vision's counterattack Intangibility increased (frame 1-45 → 1-46)
Why: So that you're not boxed out of your own counterattack. It makes sense for intangibility to last from 1-45, but at least add that one i-frame in during the last frame of your counterattack. C'mon.
★Air Vision's counterattack intangibility increased (frame 9-44 → 9-46)★
Why: So that you're not boxed out of your own counterattack. I understand that Vision in the air was designed to not be good, but you shouldn't be out-beaten or trade blows in a stalemate when you read the oncoming attack & get punished with being launched likely dying to multi-hitting attacks.
Forwarded Vision's counterattack intangibility reduced (frame 1-36 → 1-30)
Why: To balance out the amount of i-frames. This way, the i-frames end on the last hitbox frame.
Ground Vision's counterattack's endlag reduced (FAF 97 → FAF 87)
Why: To better match when Shulk puts the Monado on his back, which happens to be frame 87. He even lets go of the Monado's handle on this same frame too.
Air Vision's counterattack's endlag reduced (FAF 97 → FAF 87)
Why: To better match when Shulk puts the Monado on his back, which happens to be frame 87. He even lets go of the Monado's handle on this same frame too.
Forwarded counterattacks's endlag reduced (FAF 65 → FAF 64)
Why: To better match when Shulk puts the Monado on his back, which happens to be frame 64. He even lets go of the Monado's handle on this same frame too.

valakmtnsmash4 · Feb 21, 2016

I'm crying

Nammy12 · Feb 22, 2016

At this point I just pick up Ike.

I feel like he just out-performs Shulk in basically everything.
Damage output, frame data, kill options, etc.

Masonomace · Mar 2, 2016

Gave a good amount of minor updates to the OP that now Includes:

More accurate frame analysis in the first portion of the OP going over the exact frame moments Monado indicators happen.
Added more Solution portions such as Down smash, all aerials, Monado arts, & Back Slash.

Coming soon!:

Exact frame-by-frame data solutions for Air Slash in terms of AS1 & AS2.
Frame analysis for Vision's regeneration & decaying counter frames & the amount of uses affecting your counter window.
Frame solutions for Vision in terms of the counter window & the counterattack in the air & on the ground.

What I hope to add in the future!:

Custom specials
Other moves / inputs including throws, pummel, dodges, movement animations, etc..
Actual results from a move's knockback angle on said frame for frame under frame analysis (Basically I'm going to explain why & when you get a different angle with a move).

PlasmaButt · Mar 3, 2016

I don't necessarily agree with the whole Shield to Armour thing (thought it is more logical, Shield is a more notable move), but I do completely agree with Monado Buster being changed to Enchant. I always thought of Buster being Shulk's final strike in his Final Smash.

Masonomace · Mar 21, 2016

EDIT: I'm basically finished. I'm missing custom specials, but I'll work on that for another lifetime.

PlasmaButt said:
I don't necessarily agree with the whole Shield to Armour thing (thought it is more logical, Shield is a more notable move), but I do completely agree with Monado Buster being changed to Enchant. I always thought of Buster being Shulk's final strike in his Final Smash.

I can relate to that about Shield & Armour. I just think for now that because Shield art in Smash Bros. doing exactly what Armour does in XBC makes me wish for the art change. Monado Buster changed to Enchant should happen too.

ToxoT · Mar 25, 2016

now that balance patches seem to be rolling back in, i can only hope shulk gets some buffs soon. i agree entirely on fixing fsmash to connect the second hit properly, air slash also has a problem connecting both hits especially in jump mode, itd be nice to give it slightly faster startup to make it a better oos option as well. if dair/uair/bair worked like they look with lingering hitboxes that'd be great too, and while nair is pretty much shulk's best move, it should hit lower than where it does now and the hitbox last longer behind him, this along with the dair duration would make landing so much easier. i don't have much problem with shulk's aerials otherwise, making utilt, uthrow, and dthrow better to combo/kill confirm into aerials would be the only other things i need. i don't want shulk to get so buffed that every offensive option is now safe, but just so he can land safe, and when he gets in with a grab or tilt that its actually worth something. for now i welcome any and all frame data changes, pretty sure shulk's is the worst in the game, worse than ganon. oh, and i love that idea of speed increasing dodge duration, nice touch.

as far as aesthetic changes, i don't expect them to suddenly change the names of buster to enchant or shield to armor, but yeah i don't get at all why his arts work the way they do. shield makes you invincible to certain attacks in xbc, speed boosts evasion, and buster is an attack art. instead of a bunch of made up arts that buff and debuff him it would make more sense for shulk to cycle through arts like buster, cyclone, purge, slit edge, stream edge, etc and then hit b again to use them, leaving arts like back slash and air slash as directional inputs. in smash it's more like he's using auras than anything, not to say it isn't fun, but it feels like they're calling shulk's neutral b 'monado arts' just to force a reference to xenoblade without trying to be faithful to it.

Masonomace · Mar 25, 2016

ToxoT said:
now that balance patches seem to be rolling back in, i can only hope shulk gets some buffs soon. i agree entirely on fixing fsmash to connect the second hit properly, air slash also has a problem connecting both hits especially in jump mode, itd be nice to give it slightly faster startup to make it a better oos option as well.

I hope so too. I mainly focused around when Shulk puts the Monado on his back after a move is the time he should be able to act, since Shulk starts off with the Monado on his back unlike every swordsman who have their weapon out at all times. My thread only provides my own changes of what I'd buff / nerf based on his current animations right now. Still, it would be nice for a frame startup shave off moves apart from my thread's focus.

ToxoT said:
if dair/uair/bair worked like they look with lingering hitboxes that'd be great too, and while nair is pretty much shulk's best move, it should hit lower than where it does now and the hitbox last longer behind him, this along with the dair duration would make landing so much easier. i don't have much problem with shulk's aerials otherwise,

I can relate with this. I mostly would want hitbox longevity for Uair1 & Dair1 because that makes the most sense like my intention was to balance those moves from Usmash1's inspiration. A size increase to Nair so that it hits lower would be cool, but the only hitbox size buff I'd do is to Shulk's Ledge Attack, because it's uncalled for to have your whole move-set basically have Blade range & then the outer Beam sword trail tells you that you have great range. But then Ledge Attack only accounts for the Blade range by itself despite that there's a large Beam sword trail clearly showing in the move. Back to Nair, I agree with more hitbox activity behind him.

ToxoT said:
making utilt, uthrow, and dthrow better to combo/kill confirm into aerials would be the only other things i need. i don't want shulk to get so buffed that every offensive option is now safe, but just so he can land safe, and when he gets in with a grab or tilt that its actually worth something. for now i welcome any and all frame data changes, pretty sure shulk's is the worst in the game, worse than ganon. oh, and i love that idea of speed increasing dodge duration, nice touch.

This would also be neat. What has to be done now in order to string Utilt into aerials is by hitting with the ending of the hitbox, around the middle or end of the move but preferably the ending. As far as Uthrow & Dthrow go, they can get whatever buffs or nerfs that may or may not happen. My thread's focus revolving around the Monado placed on Shulk's back tampers with the throws entirely, which is why they're optional to me. Although, a Uthrow that has less hitlag with a few frames of endlag shaved off would completely satisfy anything & everything about Shulk's combo-game currently. Dthrow is mixed feelings for me because it's already a decent throw that has a lot of applications & situations to use it over other throws, & this is the cause & reason why Dthrow is overused in a lot of sets. Aside from that, the biggest thing I would want is honestly the proper fixes to his aerials & their endlag including the autocancel windows. And thank you about the Speed art idea, I really like that idea too.

ToxoT said:
as far as aesthetic changes, i don't expect them to suddenly change the names of buster to enchant or shield to armor, but yeah i don't get at all why his arts work the way they do. shield makes you invincible to certain attacks in xbc, speed boosts evasion, and buster is an attack art. instead of a bunch of made up arts that buff and debuff him it would make more sense for shulk to cycle through arts like buster, cyclone, purge, slit edge, stream edge, etc and then hit b again to use them, leaving arts like back slash and air slash as directional inputs. in smash it's more like he's using auras than anything, not to say it isn't fun, but it feels like they're calling shulk's neutral b 'monado arts' just to force a reference to xenoblade without trying to be faithful to it.

This is why I like you. And thanks for posting.

Cycling through arts & selecting them to use a certain art attack with said properties to the move would have been really cool to see. Now that, is paying homage to xbc.

AlvisCPU · Mar 27, 2016

That was a huge read, excellent work there. I imagine this would have taken quite a while to get everything in order...
I can't tell at a glance how much difference the frame changes make, but I've found it really interesting to hear where frames line up with his animations. I have to wonder how things like this are for other characters, to see if we're getting short-changed or if this is universal.

I never realised that the hitboxes on get-up attack were dumb, but I had an inkling that Back Slash's downswing was off. Basically, "Your blade... it did not cut deep enough."
Also didn't realise that reacting to a hit delays art activation (unless I misread you?)

Fsmash and uair definitely need to link better, usmash and dair could use it to a lesser extent. Air Slash is a bit harder to link because of the distance you cover and how it varies with Arts. I would LOVE if Shulk's aerials matched up to the beam's appearance, especially on dair and nair. I know in my early days I was frequently making the mistake of trying to drag dair into people (like you now can with Cloud) and just getting punished. It would make landing a lot safer without being overly good. Speaking of safe landings, I would LOVE if Back Slash could grab the ledge. Safe high recoveries assuming you don't screw up. I think that's probably a pipe dream though.

I completely agree with Armour/Enchant, but we're in far too deep for anything to change now. Before Shulk was announced, I was really hoping that Shulk would have a unique shield bubble like Yoshi, but instead of an egg it'd be the Monado Shield sphere with all the floating yellow panels. Would have worked perfectly. Smash Bros. takes a lot of artistic liberties though. I know previously that Sakurai stated that they changed Wario's fsmash from the shoulder barge to the weird backhand because all his wacky attacks had no range, so they decided to forego accuracy for making him a better character. That said, Shulk's is a different case because it's only the name. I'd say that a regular person could remember "Buster = more attack" rather than "Enchant = more attack", but the same doesn't go for Shield over Armour. Can't really find the logic in their thinking there. I liked your idea of increasing spot-dodge / roll invincibility with Speed though. I'd love Buster to do more against ROB and Mega Man (and mmmmmmmaybe Samus) but in the interest of fairness, I can't agree there :laugh:

Actually looking at the literal translations of the Monado's symbols might explain. According to the Wiki:
Buster (斬) - To slash (a living being)
Enchant (機) - Machine
Shield (盾) - Shield
Armour (鎧) - Armour

... yeah okay that doesn't reveal much, at least for Shield vs. Armour. Maybe the Japanese translations of the attacks themselves may lend a hint, but I'm not really sure where to look for that. I'll ask around and report back if I find anything.
--------------
Edit: http://xenobladedata.web.fc2.com/index.html (Shoutouts to Doom636 even though he's not on Smashboards)
According to this and Google Translate... we still have "Buster", "Enchantment", "Armour" and "Shield". Interestingly though, it does translate "Monad Breaker" as an Art. Narrowed it down to be Monado Purge for us. I'm gonna keep poking around a bit because I don't trust Google Translate.
--------------

The last patch we got was excellent (high-tiers came down, low-tiers went up), so I have hope that those essential frame buffs will come through.

Masonomace · Mar 27, 2016

AlvisCPU said:
That was a huge read, excellent work there. I imagine this would have taken quite a while to get everything in order...
I can't tell at a glance how much difference the frame changes make, but I've found it really interesting to hear where frames line up with his animations. I have to wonder how things like this are for other characters, to see if we're getting short-changed or if this is universal.

Thanks to the max. At first, this project was just, "hm I wonder. . .Shulk starts the fight with the Monado on his back at all times when he doesn't use a move, just like in XBC where he wouldn't draw the Monado sword if he was roaming around." It kind of went from there. I wanted to see just what Shulk was doing in his animations frame-by-frame & wondered just how bad his startup, hitbox activity, & endlag were. And I have my clear answers.

AlvisCPU said:
I never realised that the hitboxes on get-up attack were dumb, but I had an inkling that Back Slash's downswing was off. Basically, "Your blade... it did not cut deep enough."
Also didn't realise that reacting to a hit delays art activation (unless I misread you?)

Yeah, ledge attack is reaaaaaaaaalllllly bad. I thought it was a decent ledge attack up until I was doing frame analysis for it, & now I think the move is so poor, that it's reflected on my game-play decisions when I'm hanging on the ledge. I think, "don't you even think about using ledge attack, you know that's bad Mason.", unless I see my opponent throw out a move costing themselves with endlag of whatever sort is when I'll use ledge attack. Overall, I'm ashamed that the ledge attack only applies the Blade range & not the ether blade's Beam sword trail whatsoever.

Also, no you didn't misread. When Shulk cycles arts & stops on one to select it, any mutil-hitting moves or just taking hitlag from attacks will delay the art's activation. This causes your art activation that you want as soon as possible to be delayed, resulting with possible flustering because your Shield art didn't activate before the final hit of an attack killing you off the ceiling. So I'd want the art to activate 46 frames later no matter what, in terms of receiving hitlag & things like that. Although, when you hit an opponent's shield while selecting an art, the shield hitlag delays your art activation, but it "pauses" the activation frames so-to-speak. When hitting an opponent while selecting an art, the hitlag adds up with the art activation, causing you to have an art activation too soon for your intentions if you thought about MALLC'ing or something.

AlvisCPU said:
Fsmash and uair definitely need to link better, usmash and dair could use it to a lesser extent. Air Slash is a bit harder to link because of the distance you cover and how it varies with Arts. I would LOVE if Shulk's aerials matched up to the beam's appearance, especially on dair and nair. I know in my early days I was frequently making the mistake of trying to drag dair into people (like you now can with Cloud) and just getting punished. It would make landing a lot safer without being overly good. Speaking of safe landings, I would LOVE if Back Slash could grab the ledge. Safe high recoveries assuming you don't screw up. I think that's probably a pipe dream though.

Fsmash & Uair for sure. If that happened, the usage ratio for Fsmash & Uair would skyrocket especially thanks to the recent landing lag reduction patch to Uair, making it 15 frames from the previous 17 frames. Air Slash is finicky but it comes down to, "Do I have Rage? If yes then I can reliably link AS1 into AS2 on heavies and or mid-weight fastfallers." "Do I have Rage? If no then I can reliably link AS1 into AS2 on middle-weights and perhaps lightweights with fastfall speed." "Are they a floaty? If yes then I can reliably link AS1 into AS2 if I have Monado Jump art active." All of it varies on DI & placement of the AS1 though. If your scoop is delicious then you won't take the ice cream home.

I'd enjoy the Dair & Nair change if they lined up with the Beam's appearance & hitbox activity for sure. Nair mostly because it's kind of like our everything-tool, but Dair wouldn't hurt either. My selfish issue with Dair though is that because it was an opportunity that Shulk could of gotten but never did, & now Cloud has the feature it seems like a lost chance. It's not like it'd be a clone copy balance change just because Cloud's here now, but it can come off like that to others.

Back Slash ledge-snapping is definitely a pipe dream.

Even I think that it's a bit too good anyway. The only Back Slash variant that would justify a ledge-snap ability would be Back Slash Leap due to the move's nature of rising high & coming down very quickly. Custom moves similar to Back Slash Leap have the nature of snapping to ledge, so I would suppose BSL would be the most prominent one.

AlvisCPU said:
I completely agree with Armour/Enchant, but we're in far too deep for anything to change now. Before Shulk was announced, I was really hoping that Shulk would have a unique shield bubble like Yoshi, but instead of an egg it'd be the Monado Shield sphere with all the floating yellow panels. Would have worked perfectly. Smash Bros. takes a lot of artistic liberties though. I know previously that Sakurai stated that they changed Wario's fsmash from the shoulder barge to the weird backhand because all his wacky attacks had no range, so they decided to forego accuracy for making him a better character. That said, Shulk's is a different case because it's only the name. I'd say that a regular person could remember "Buster = more attack" rather than "Enchant = more attack", but the same doesn't go for Shield over Armour. Can't really find the logic in their thinking there. I liked your idea of increasing spot-dodge / roll invincibility with Speed though. I'd love Buster to do more against ROB and Mega Man (and mmmmmmmaybe Samus) but in the interest of fairness, I can't agree there

Ultimately I agree with ya. We're over a year into the game & at this point I'm not sure if a visual change like arts would actually happen. Most likely not. I really like your Monado Shield idea, it sounds super cool! And thanks for the Speed art compliment, I really thought that was plausible as paying homage to the game due to the effect of the art in XBC. And I also can't deny the Buster suggestion, since it wouldn't be a big deal to the grand scheme of the game. We have things like Type Effectiveness in Brawl, where Water > Fire > Grass > Water. While it is a pokemon-specific mechanic, it's not out of the realm of possibilities that Shulk can't deal extra damage against machine-like characters with Buster.

AlvisCPU said:
The last patch we got was excellent (high-tiers came down, low-tiers went up), so I have hope that those essential frame buffs will come through.

Me too! I'm half tempted to send my frame threads to someone that could influence a change to Shulk's patch balancing. Dunno if it would make an impact though.

Pitzer · Mar 27, 2016

Lord Mason, this was interesting to read none the less.

AlvisCPU · Mar 27, 2016

I think with ledge attack, I've subconsciously avoided using it anyway. More often than not, I've either missed or been shielded and punished so I don't even consider it an option tbh. I'll only ever use it if they throw out an attack and I can guarantee the hit. And with dair, I agree that the chance is gone now. It's Cloud's thing now and if they intended Shulk's dair to be used in that way they'd have done it already. Ah well. At least we can suck people off the ledge with the first hit, that's something.

Masonomace said:
If your scoop is delicious then you won't take the ice cream home.

Gotta use this phrase one day, that's great.

G-sen · Mar 29, 2016

This looks beautiful. Please god, let Sakurguy read this!

NINTENDO Galaxy · Mar 29, 2016

Masonomace said:
Me too! I'm half tempted to send my frame threads to someone that could influence a change to Shulk's patch balancing. Dunno if it would make an impact though.

Please send this your Smash friend, many Shulk mains would be pleased if the hitboxes of f-smash, up smash, down smash, up air, dair, and air slash were corrected. Personally I would it if Shulk's frame data for nair returned to its launch value so I would not have to worry about incurring landing lag when short hopping in speed art.

The nair and ledge get up hitboxes along with all the frame skips in animation should also be looked into because those are unacceptable and were probably rushed by the dev team. If you do decide to send your essay, you might want to cut down on a lot of optional changes and include the recommended changes along with some optional changes based on opinions from users to your discretion.

Masonomace · Mar 29, 2016

NINTENDO Galaxy said:
Please send this your Smash friend, many Shulk mains would be pleased if the hitboxes of f-smash, up smash, down smash, up air, dair, and air slash were corrected. Personally I would it if Shulk's frame data for nair returned to its launch value so I would not have to worry about incurring landing lag when short hopping in speed art.

The nair and ledge get up hitboxes along with all the frame skips in animation should also be looked into because those are unacceptable and were probably rushed by the dev team. If you do decide to send your essay, you might want to cut down on a lot of optional changes and include the recommended changes along with some optional changes based on opinions from users to your discretion.

You make good points. So I decided to clean up my thread a bit by setting spoiler areas for Not recommended & Optional. Now only the Recommended show to address what I would change the most.

I might only have a few buffs for each move, because moves like Monado arts & Vision have a ton of things changed when really we don't necessarily want them. It would change too many things & I feel like this would all happen over the course of a year rather than one patch. I'm tempted to send images of Nair & Ledge attack though. Those are indeed ludicrous.

NINTENDO Galaxy · Mar 29, 2016

Another way I thought of spreading the info would be to circulate it on popular twitter and facebook smash pages or make a youtube vid calling it a glitch to get the attention of the dev team since it appears that is how many major exploits in smash got crushed.

For whatever it's worth in the current age of patch notes. I think some of those videos should be made for unpopular characters like Shulk and Lucas in an attempt to make the issues more widespread.

Videos for believed unfair mechanics for the former characters I have mentioned have already been posted on youtube but they have not garnered a mass following on social media to my knowledge (The videos on youtube only have 47-200 views last I checked). So Nintendp would fail to hear word on the issue since it did not hit the front page.

I am proud that flaws with characters, moves, and stages have been fixed for trending issues but when your character is snuffed out of the loop due to popularity it feels pretty bad and gives smashers who main said characters a disadvantage in competitive play.

Even though we're close to end of patch notes I do not want players to complain about gameplay issues that plague their character when it could be fixed with a large following of vocal supporters.

Here's an example of how Shulk's current aerial vision can prevent him from punishing a read:

(The clip is near the ens but mobile does not allow me to put timestamps, a repost of the link would be great.)

https://youtu.be/FqOmTQqjfV8

Masonomace Do you think it may be worth it to make a thread to try and get a last ditch effort to weed out gameplay bugs of hitboxes not connecting when appropiate and the like then send it to your friend with video evidence? Also would you like me to post some more shulk issue videos that I mentioned above?

Masonomace · Mar 30, 2016

NINTENDO Galaxy said:
Another way I thought of spreading the info would be to circulate it on popular twitter and facebook smash pages or make a youtube vid calling it a glitch to get the attention of the dev team since it appears that is how many major exploits in smash got crushed.

For whatever it's worth in the current age of patch notes. I think some of those videos should be made for unpopular characters like Shulk and Lucas in an attempt to make the issues more widespread.

Videos for believed unfair mechanics for the former characters I have mentioned have already been posted on youtube but they have not garnered a mass following on social media to my knowledge (The videos on youtube only have 47-200 views last I checked). So Nintendp would fail to hear word on the issue since it did not hit the front page.

I am proud that flaws with characters, moves, and stages have been fixed for trending issues but when your character is snuffed out of the loop due to popularity it feels pretty bad and gives smashers who main said characters a disadvantage in competitive play.

Even though we're close to end of patch notes I do not want players to complain about gameplay issues that plague their character when it could be fixed with a large following of vocal supporters.

Here's an example of how Shulk's current aerial vision can prevent him from punishing a read:

(The clip is near the ens but mobile does not allow me to put timestamps, a repost of the link would be great.)

https://youtu.be/FqOmTQqjfV8

Masonomace Do you think it may be worth it to make a thread to try and get a last ditch effort to weed out gameplay bugs of hitboxes not connecting when appropiate and the like then send it to your friend with video evidence? Also would you like me to post some more shulk issue videos that I mentioned above?

Calling things a glitch seems too extreme, though it probably would attract the most attention even if it was a false claim. But I can sympathize with underrated / unpopular characters getting some spotlight. What are those videos for the former characters if I may ask?

Shulk hasn't been totally snuffed, as his "No Air Slash Glitch" was patched out thanks to a video Erico9001 made. It seems that once that video became popular & well-received, the devs may have seen it & acted on working out the fix.

The Aerial Vision clip in timestamp btw: https://youtu.be/FqOmTQqjfV8?t=1m53s

As for the final paragraph, I suppose that I'll gather suggestions & opinions from Shulk players & record insights. I'll have my own "last ditch effort" thread made including the possibility of a video made to show Shulk's issues & with how they don't properly connect when they visually look like they should. Also yes that'll do. Any shulk videos that provide evidence of issues for a fix is welcomed. They can be compiled here for now.

NINTENDO Galaxy · Mar 31, 2016

I'll add the videos this weekend.

Sha-Shulk · Mar 31, 2016

I love this. Well, I mean i love the post. The frame data and visual match-up is atrocious. I think if there is ever a 1.1.6., the problems with ledge attack, back slash, all aerials, and f smash should be addressed

EDIT: Also, on the topic of Shulk, I feel as if he should be given range buffs moreso than frame data buffs.
Why? Because people would claim that he's an Ike clone. But if he had range buffs on his tilts and aerials, than he would be the character that he was supposed to be: range, adaption, and no autocancels lol.

EDIT 2: But his bair should autocancel better. It just makes sense.

gridatttack · Apr 3, 2016

I agree with 90% of these lists.

I never understood why you were still 'performing' the attack when clearly Shulk has already put the monado away. Is really weird seeing you falling like normal just to see the endlag animation.

Another thing they should fix about Vision is that:
1. Make it so opponents can't do any actions once you get them. I have seen ZSS land with her Bair just to do a spot dodge to avoid the counter. Other characters with low landing lag moves can do this too. Make it so the opponent can't do a thing, much like Witch Time of Bayonetta in which you should be able to do things like dodge or shield, but you can't.

2. Make a subroutine for air Vision. Countering a move airborne is pretty much useless because most of the time your attack will miss. Make it so Shulk does a different attack animation in the air in which you don't move, so you can reliably hit the opponent.

Masonomace · Apr 7, 2016

Updated Utilt, Nair, Fair, & Bair with some images showing some light to strengthen my reasons.

EDIT: Added Ledge attack & Back Slash images too.

Puddi · May 3, 2016

Hey I'm making a sm4sh mod for 3ds/wii U and used this thread to fix shulk, thanks for the info!

Masonomace · Jun 25, 2016

*Edited the OP so that images are enclosed in spoilers for easier reading. Will probably do more edits to showcase more frame-by-frame images for additional strength to my reasonings.

Chief Hotsuin · Jun 29, 2016

Wow. l never realized how busted Shulk was. Good read is good. 10/10 would Backslash again.

[99.9%] Shulk's Frame Analysis

Yeah Shulk, get stuck in!

Smash Ace

Smash Lord

Yeah Shulk, get stuck in!

Smash Rookie

Yeah Shulk, get stuck in!

Smash Apprentice

Yeah Shulk, get stuck in!

Smash Ace

Yeah Shulk, get stuck in!

The Young Lion

Smash Ace

Smash Rookie

Smash Ace

Yeah Shulk, get stuck in!

Smash Ace

Yeah Shulk, get stuck in!

Smash Ace

Smash Apprentice

Smash Journeyman

Yeah Shulk, get stuck in!

Smash Rookie

Yeah Shulk, get stuck in!

Smash Journeyman

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