Will Smash 4 Be Competitive?

[DarkDream]

After watching the recent nintendo direct, I wanted to hear everyones opinion on the potential competitive nature of the new smash based on what was seen.

 

[Xermo]

Brawl was competitive

 

[lordvaati]

FOR. ****ING. GLORY.

 

[Snakeyes]

There's no way to tell right now.

 

[Accf124]

Lets be honest, all smashes are gonna be competitive in some way, shape or form.

 

[Lozjam]

From what we have seen from the direct, this game is planned to be competitive. The gameplay speed is very, very fast, there is an online mode designed for competitive play, Glory Mode (No Items, Final Destination). Characters not having transformations, and changed very much to have an overall new state of balance(Hopefully. It looks like it's taking pages out of Project M's book(This may or may not be intentional), overall, I am excited to play this during Summer. I think Sakurai is trying to cater to us, and I am loving it. What are your guys' thoughts?

 

[Lugubrious]

Gameplay wise, it definitely looks like it has a competitive edge. However, as pointed out by fighting game enthusiast Maximillian Dood, gameplay is only part of what makes a fighting game competitive. A huge portion of a game's competitiveness relies on the sum total of its online: how good the connection is, how ranking is handled, skill-based matchmaking, lobby systems, spectating, and more. I'm sure he'll have a video out soon on the subject.

 

[Lozjam]

Gameplay wise, it definitely looks like it has a competitive edge. However, as pointed out by fighting game enthusiast Maximillian Dood, gameplay is only part of what makes a fighting game competitive. A huge portion of a game's competitiveness relies on the sum total of its online: how good the connection is, how ranking is handled, skill-based matchmaking, lobby systems, spectating, and more. I'm sure he'll have a video out soon on the subject.

Sakurai has already stated that it will have skill based matchmaking, glory mode, and the connection will be good. Also I am more talking about Tournaments, but this new online could pave the way for online tournaments.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

I don't know about "very, very fast". It looks Brawl speed still. It certainly is not Melee speed.

 

[Warp Star Lover]

Definitely not Melee speed, but it's faster than Brawl, and that's good enough for me.

Not to mention the gravity/physics are closer to Melee than Brawl.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Definitely not Melee speed, but it's faster than Brawl, and that's good enough for me.

Not to mention the gravity/physics are closer to Melee than Brawl.

How do you figure? I don't claim to have any numbers or anything, but just watching general footage, characters still seem super floaty. All the physics still seem Brawl-inspired.

Brawl was competitive

Sure... just not in the same way Melee was. Chess is competitive, but it is also supremely painful to watch. #FreeMelee

 

[Warp Star Lover]

How do you figure? I don't claim to have any numbers or anything, but just watching general footage, characters still seem super floaty. All the physics still seem Brawl-inspired.

Well, they're certainly not super-heavy here, but Brawl was ULTRA-floaty.

The fat has been trimmed.

 

[ggdeku]

It seems to me that Sakurai achieved what he said he would last year when he claimed Smash 4 would be a midpoint between Melee and Brawl. I am looking forward to see what the community does with the game and all the new techniques that will be discovered.

 

[Deleted member]

Little mac looks competitive when he does that combo on link into the Up Special.

Other than that, it seems faster overall, but I think because of the brawl like Air dodges it will push melee players away.

 

[Dott]

The physics are more than melee on the wii u version but in 3ds version i see it's more like Brawl.

Also, i don't see Brawl or Melee speed... it's just Smash 4 speed.

 

[-Key-]

It seems like comboing is much closer to Melee, but overall movement and speed is still not far off from Brawl. But it's still very early and the game footage being shown isn't exactly filled with top-level play.

 

[DarkDream]

I just hope it has the same depth as Melee. Could care less about wavedashing, it's not as important as something like L cancelling, tho having quick ground tilts off of dash would be nice too. I can't really call it but hits seem stiff. I don't think it'll have the combo flow as Melee or Project M at all.

 

[KoRLumen]

Well, they're certainly not super-heavy here, but Brawl was ULTRA-floaty.

The fat has been trimmed.

More like they put on some fat bahaha.

 

[CRASHiC]

Combo flow isn't depth. You're thinking of technical skill

 

[Jack Kieser]

Yes.

[/thread]

 

[kylexv]

The glory of the For Glory mode is bringing more glory to the already glorious competitive play.

 

[Chimera]

Yes. I'm not even sure how this an be questioned anymore.The game clearly won't be the same game as melee, but that's not a bad thing. It has no tripping, and therefore has no random event to screw up competitive play. Yes. The answer is yes.

 

[[TSON]]

the physics are definitely the same between the 3ds and wii u version. it's like brawl+ speed really. characters are still kinda floaty but there's real hitstun and attacks are kinda fast

 

[Shaya]

Merged the two threads having the same discussion point.

 

[Zach R.]

Gameplay wise, it definitely looks like it has a competitive edge. However, as pointed out by fighting game enthusiast Maximillian Dood, gameplay is only part of what makes a fighting game competitive. A huge portion of a game's competitiveness relies on the sum total of its online: how good the connection is, how ranking is handled, skill-based matchmaking, lobby systems, spectating, and more. I'm sure he'll have a video out soon on the subject.

To be fair, Smash, and a lot of fighting games, have survived very well despite online play of any merit, especially Melee (still going strong after 13 years!).

 

[Zach R.]

the physics are definitely the same between the 3ds and wii u version. it's like brawl+ speed really. characters are still kinda floaty but there's real hitstun and attacks are kinda fast

Sounds a lot like Smash64, maybe a bit faster with less absurd hit stun. I mean, I loved that game so much, even at a competitive level, but that was basically the beta version to Melee in a lot of ways. My primary concern is too much jenkyness, but I haven't seen anything really to be like, "WHAT?? THAT'S SO OP!!!" At least not yet.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I'd first point out that in terms of animations Melee and Brawl have essentially identical speeds. Melee has a much faster metagame, but it's more about balance decisions than pre-canned game speed. We still don't know everything about smash 4's balance decisions, but we do know this. It's clearly designed with a thoughtfulness all previous smash games lacked. Melee and Brawl, as much as I love both, just kinda happened. That gave us chaingrabs and Meta Knights and characters like Melee Kirby who weren't even vaguely functional alongside the gameplay we all loved. The thoughtfulness of this design seems focused on retaining everything that made the previous two games great, emphasizing the best parts, and carefully building the game to just be a bit smarter with how its balanced so hopefully a lot fewer dumb things are strong this time around. I'm very optimistic this really could be the best smash game yet.

 

[[TSON]]

One of the things that made Melee so fast and fun is L-cancelling. Full length landing animations make for a slower and less combo centric game. Attacks being fast on the ground with low endlag like Mac's make the game look fast, but Smash is so cool because of the way aerial physics work. From what I've seen, landlag seems to be longer than an L-cancel but I'm seeing them to be significantly shorter than Brawl. Hence my Brawl+ comment. Saying the attacks were faster wasn't a very descriptive way of putting that lol, but I do think combos and interesting competitive play are potentials here from what I'm seeing.

 

[Plain Yogurt]

Also, i don't see Brawl or Melee speed... it's just Smash 4 speed.

More people need to get this. Every Smash game has functioned differently. I doubt Sm4sh will be an exception.

 

[Shaya]

Frame data will likely be similar, but the main thing ive noticed from all play videos thus far have been the faster speeds in rolling.

As brawl didn't have the wavedash, people were caught up with lack of movement options for quite a long time. Rolling has developed a lot in brawl (primarily thanks to the power of Meta Knight's forward roll), and I think Sakurai has given a nod in the direction of having a fast movement displacement spacing tool in upping roll speeds.

 

[Starcutter]

Since it's really combo-centric like melee, just instead of wavedashing there's a LOT faster rolls, this looks like a game I can get behind in terms of competitiveness.

 

[Shaymin slicker]

Well if all the others are competitive I don't see why this one won't be.

 

[fabulouspants]

airdodging out of hitstun seems to be the same as brawl. rewatch the direct footage and pay attention to the gameplay clips. you'll see people airdodge immediately after being hit. i'm completely ok with it since i loved brawl but melee/project m fans might have a problem.

 

[BBG|Scott-Spain]

Anything can be competitive. The real question is the balance/depth, which is what Sakurai is attempting to give to us. Whether that works out will remain to be seen.

 

[Jem.]

It'll be competitive because every new Smash auto-starts that way. Even Brawl had a healthy community in most regions until 2011 I'd say. Then it really started to dip bad in most regions, and now most regions don't have a Brawl tournament scene.

It seems like they want less down time. Marth acted fairly quickly out of his backwards roll even. Imagine if you can buffer forward rolls to where you can react even faster. Every aerial auto cancels if I'm not mistaken. We still need to see more though, we're not seeing enough to piece it all together.

I have hopes it'll be better than Brawl. In a perfect world, Melee continues to thrive and Smash 4 booms off of launch and sustains it.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Gameplay wise, it definitely looks like it has a competitive edge. However, as pointed out by fighting game enthusiast Maximillian Dood, gameplay is only part of what makes a fighting game competitive. A huge portion of a game's competitiveness relies on the sum total of its online: how good the connection is, how ranking is handled, skill-based matchmaking, lobby systems, spectating, and more. I'm sure he'll have a video out soon on the subject.

I disagree. Online adds to a game's competitiveness but I don't think it is huge portion of it. Look at Melee, it's heralded as the most competitive Smash and it has no online. 64 managed to be competitive with no online. Brawl wasn't made more casual because it had bad online, infact even with it's slower gameplay it still became competitive.

 

[Shaya]

It seems like they want less down time. Marth acted fairly quickly out of his backwards roll even. Imagine if you can buffer forward rolls to where you can react even faster. Every aerial auto cancels if I'm not mistaken. We still need to see more though, we're not seeing enough to piece it all together.

There's always been a bit of misnomer about auto cancels and whatnot. All aerials in Brawl/Melee auto cancel. Every aerial also has a landing lag set, which is how much lag you experience if you land before the auto cancel frame is reached. Sakurai chose which aerials would have "melee" (with L cancelling) like lag in Brawl, but those same aerials are still capable of auto cancelling (so generally 2 or 4 frames of lag on landing).

 

[Lozjam]

Merged the two threads having the same discussion point.

Thanks! I didn't know if the information warranted a new thread or not, but thank you

 

[RODO]

People still play ALL smash games competitively to this day. It's a yes.

 

[samsparta21]

He said it will sort of be between Brawl and Melee. So yes. Also, FINAL DESTINATIONS OF EVERY STAGE OMGDFGDFGKDFJh