Will Custom move sets be allowed at Tournaments?

[\\Killer//]

I just think it can go both ways.

 

[ndayday]

I think we need to see more of it.

 

[iLLuMinati_EYE]

i think it would be too broken and too time consuming unless T.O.'s give toruney players a limit on how much players can customize a character but i doubt 100%

 

[Shamoz]

I don't want this to replace the regular singles and doubles matches, but I think it would make for a cool alternative competition.

 

[Praxis]

Nintendo has made it very clear that these are not for competition by banning the customizations from online play.

 

[BADGRAPHICS]

I always say this; Smash is a diverse game. You can play it a multitude of different ways, and we shouldn't discount any of them.

Regular movesets, no items should always be the standard, but other rulesets should still appear at tournaments.

The competitive community shouldn't view this as another point of contention, but rather as an opportunity for another new style of tournament to add to the repertoire.

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

If the tourney players want to limit the game further, I'll be disappointed. This allows for so much potential like never before! It makes the game far less predictable and allows for better character performance regardless of tiers.

If anything, there can be rulesets for both custom and non-custom tourneys and characters will likely have a default moveset. Any tactics or moves deemed unfair can be banned.

 

[Snakeyes]

Absolutely not. Waiting until players customize all of their specials will be a huge waste of time and there's too much potential for broken combinations.

 

[Xermo]

Nintendo has made it very clear that these are not for competition by banning the customizations from online play.

online != local

 

[Starbound]

Are custom movesets for both versions?

 

[Rickster]

There should be a new type of tourney play that allows custom movesets. It would add lots of strategy to the game. But in standard singles and doubles? Definitely not. Keep it separate.

 

[Revven]

Nobody knows the extent of how much you can customize the move set. It could very well be for specials only and only the properties of the specials. If it's a character's entire move set, including knockback, trajectory, damage, etc. then yeah there's no way it could be allowed in tournaments. Even just special move customization wouldn't be OK.

Simply because the moves would be too different between matches, MUs would be inconsistent, etc.

The only way I could see it working is if the community came up with pre-set changes to characters to balance them out and every setup at a tournament had those characters set-up with those changes. But that sounds like on the same level of issues as when the community tried to implement custom stages -- it just won't work.

In a way though this truly does let the community balance the game based on the rule set the community plays under... but it just seems to complicated to set up unless save files can be easily transferred between consoles. It's wishful thinking on my part to even assume this community can agree to character changes...

 

[BillNyeTheSamusGuy]

It definitely seems that the customization seems to be limited to variations on special attacks. From the look of the vid it seemed like there would be options like: fireball A, fireball B etc. That would be awesome for tournament play. Why would we not want that? The meta game would be so much more complex.

 

[KRBAY]

*someone gives all of their character's attacks super armor*

No way. No way. No waaay. Too Brawl Minus.

 

[BillNyeTheSamusGuy]

That's possible; they did show DK doing a super armor'd move. I think it's more likely that they're going for a spectrum of balanced moves. EG the big mario fireball is a continuous hitbox but moves slow; the small fireball moves quick but does no knockback.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Don't Brawl tournaments allow controller configuration before matches? Why would editing move sets be any worse? Or did I miss the memo that these custom movesets would be balance-breaking?

 

[Revven]

It depends on what you'd consider balance breaking, they showed some examples of what can be done (or at least what the options seem to be for a few moves). The one I considered to be the biggest offender of these was DK's Side B having armor for the entire duration of the move and also being unbreakable armor (seemingly, anyway).

But we know so little about it it's hard to judge. I'm, personally, an individual who feels keeping it default would be the best but if the options are purposefully limited to special moves and the special move selection is limited in and of itself then maybe it could be OK (because then players could realistically practice for the different possible special moves a character might have). But if the special moves can be tweaked in several different ways, beyond a pre-set, then I think it would be troublesome.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

With how bad DK has been historically, that move looked incredibly fair. XD

 

[BillNyeTheSamusGuy]

It depends on what you'd consider balance breaking, they showed some examples of what can be done (or at least what the options seem to be for a few moves). The one I considered to be the biggest offender of these was DK's Side B having armor for the entire duration of the move and also being unbreakable armor (seemingly, anyway).

But we know so little about it it's hard to judge. I'm, personally, an individual who feels keeping it default would be the best but if the options are purposefully limited to special moves and the special move selection is limited in and of itself then maybe it could be OK (because then players could realistically practice for the different possible special moves a character might have). But if the special moves can be tweaked in several different ways, beyond a pre-set, then I think it would be troublesome.

I have all the agreement with this.

 

[Warchamp7]

Nintendo has made it very clear that these are not for competition by banning the customizations from online play.

Actually that was likely a new player friendly decision since there's no way to discern what version of a move a player is using until they use it. You'd be in the dark about their capabilities until it gets used on you. For a new player who doesn't have them all memorized, that just becomes a daunting and confusing experience.

 

[Cap'nChreest]

Wow. Making a move 10x slower is actually being considered for competitive use? So if I make all of my moves the speed and strength of a Falcon Punch will I win? no... I really hope that these aren't competitive. They just seem like a useless gimmick like masterpieces.

 

[Dott]

online != local

Glory mode.

 

[MechaWave]

No, they won't. They aren't allowed for Anyone matches either.

 

[BillNyeTheSamusGuy]

cuz we all know tournament play has always followed Sakurai's intentions. Remember when all tournaments were ffa with items because of brawl's online mode?

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

I still think FFA tournaments would be awesome.

 

[[TSON]]

super armor on everything.

 

[Jellyfish4102]

It certainly seems limited to a few special attacks and with only a few preset options.

What I'm worried about is if a character can only be changed once then it would be ridiculous for duos.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

We need to see more of how this feature works to evaluate its competitive merits. If it's like "grooves" from CvS2, it's an additional layer of diversity available to players. If it's more like "make your character do any kind of crazy thing you want" and can just let you make your characters super powered, it's not going to be an option of merit. Let's wait and see on this one.

 

[Empyrean]

Like Ampharos said, waiting is the best option for now. We don't even know how much of the moveset will be subject to customization, so we can't judge if they will be game-breaking or not. If it's only some moves (like Neutral-B in Mario's and Pit's cases), then I don't see the harm in at least trying it out for early tournaments.

 

[[TSON]]

They did show a brief screenshot of the menu and it shows that stuff is limited but that doesn't make it any less dumb. You put super armor on a move like Ganon's wizard kick and it's RIP metagame since grabbing is unlikely. As you can see from that DK clip, it applies to the whole attack, both startup and end lag. We could ban the super armor tweak, but then again, do we really want to make our scene into grindy RPG-like gameplay or do we want to focus on the skill...? Customizable movesets sound like something that should be banned without too much thought imo.... I just do not see any good coming from it, but rather unpredictable/un-memorizable matchups (not a good thing) and an artificial barrier for new players.

 

[Downdraft]

I just think it can go both ways.

While the process may be cumbersome, we may be able to use the customization feature to "balance" the game to our liking.

 

[Shaymin slicker]

I have never been to a tournement before but I can assume no, because they would love to get it started and customizing would only make it drag on a lot longer then usual.

 

[MAtgSy]

That custom movesets can't be used online pretty much means you must still master a default character so why even bother learning an altered 1 as well?

Thy basically shot the feature in the foot right there.

 

[Downdraft]

That custom movesets can't be used online pretty much means you must still master a default character so why even bother learning an altered 1 as well?

Thy basically shot the feature in the foot right there.

What if more than one individual in a match is playing the same character with a different customized moveset?
How should that be handled?
Secondly, I'm not sure I'd want to see nonstandard moves online; I wouldn't be prepared for them.
At least with a standard moveset, there are no surprises once you've done your research, played around with the game, or experienced the matchup.

 

[Overtaken]

While the process may be cumbersome, we may be able to use the customization feature to "balance" the game to our liking.

The only problem with that is not everyone who is very good/ competitive at the game is following smashboards. They would get really good using the default settings, or custom settings that don't correspond to the tournament standard, and either has to relearn all of their MUs and probably even their own character, or worse show up to a tournament to find out the custom setting are set differently. Or maybe I'm wrong, maybe every worth-while tournament player out there is definitely in touch with the online community and will receive the memo when everyone else does.

 

[PrepareYourself]

A lot of people seem to be assuming that moveset customization is going to be the same as control customization in the sense that you have to exit the character selection screen in order to make adjustments, but what's worth considering is that on the character selection screen, there are a number of buttons that go unused in all three installments of the game, most notably the D-pad/+ pad. I think there is strong potential that the D-pad/+ pad will end up becoming the designated moveset-adjusting button input, with each direction representing the four directional B-special attacks (of course, neutral isn't a direction but in this case it would obviously fill in whichever direction side-B doesn't take). For this reason, I personally am not too worried about moveset customization slowing down the game in a competitive context. As for actual balance, as others have said, only time (and how the metagame ends up down the road) will tell.

tl:dr: D-pad/+ pad can, should and probably will be used for moveset customization

 

[LancerStaff]

Sakurai has said in the past that customization will be done completely on the 3DS and can be transferred to the Wii U. This solves multiple problems. 1st, playing on the 3DS means there's absolutely no hassle to custom moves. 2nd, you won't have to unlock the customizations on the Wii U version to use them (as Sakurai hinted at them being unlockables of some kind) because you just transfer. And 3rd, as long as transferring is quick, you should be able to transfer movesets and control schemes easily.

 

[JOE!]

Pretty much there will need to be two things for it to be competitively / tournament viable:


It has to be FAST
In a nutshell, if it takes too long to customize moves (slogging through a menu per player per character), it simply would be banned for ease of use at a large tournament.
If quick and relatively simple (Such as the ability to save it to your tag, then transfer it to the WiiU quickly or even if it is quick in general like choosing "Special 1 vs Special 2" within 2 seconds), it shouldn't be too bad.

It has to be LIMITED
For it to really take off, it cannot be bonkers. So far, what we've seen are limited alterations / variants of a move that keep the original intent and flavor, such as different kinds of fireballs. End of the day, it's still a fireball projectile that Mario can use.
However, what else I mean by this is that it would be best if it were limited to -just- special moves and even better yet presets. Meaning perhaps at character select screen you could choose Mario, then quickly assign "Mario A or Mario B" with altered special moves each.
On top of this, having limitation makes it easier to study for competitive viability, as if we find "Mach Tornado" to be too abusive, we could potentially make him use an alternate B move instead.


That aside, it would definitely make for a fun side event / fun in general.

 

[link2702]

yes. We do need to see how more of it works, but the potential is there to create a far more balanced roster by deciding which moves for characters be the standard.

Some characters might just need their vanilla moveset and they're fine, others might be better balanced with the rest of the cast by having some of the customized ones.



Think about it; what if some of the customizations fix certain flaws with characters, such as one for link giving him a better recovery? we've only seen bits and pieces, but if it truly lets us really balance the characters better, it should at least be given some serious thought.

 

[Hylian]

It will really just come down to us fully exploring the feature. It's absolutely impossible to tell as of now if this feature will be tournament viable, we need more information. Either way, it will generate a lot of discussion.