Why "The Wimp" beats the "Psi Kid"

[AmazingXeno]

Simply Recovery.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l29IpFdUDHc >.<
This, should beat Ness's UB, It may KO but Lucas's deals massive damage, has great range, and can also KO.

Discuss?
I already posted this video in the Ness thread but I wanted some fellow Lucas mains opinions.

Woops, meant to post the vid...

 

[Veggi]

You should probably post the video here, also, are you talking about PK Thunder as an individual attack, as a recovery or the PK Cannon?

 

[c3gill]

Your asking only about recovery?

Ness' PKT2 is an attack. Lucas' PKT2 is a recovery. They are structured in this manner.

Ness' PKT travels very quickly, but if interruped in any way he loses the projectile. Lucas, however, can send his PKT through opponents and still have the projectile to recover, if needed. Lucas' PKT2 has more hits than Ness', and does more damage, but Ness' can KO much earlier and has more knockback.

As you asked simply recovery, Lucas wins. not close. Lucas has one of the best recovery options in the game. between a zap jump, magnet pulling, and PKT2, there is no reason why a Lucas should ever die from lack of recovery. Ness' recovery is much easier to gimp.

Lucas can also Thunderslide much easier and more efficiently than Ness.

Also, there is already a Ness vs Lucas page that covers Recovery. Here

 

[Yoshi-Kirby]

Well..........I don't see a reason for a thread over this but.....recovery isn't the only thing to think about. Ness's aerial game surpasses Lucas's, his throws are more godly, and Ness has easier KO moves imo.

Yeah, Ness's PKT2 is more of an attack than recovery. It kills at ridiculously low % unlike Lucas's.

And yeah, already a thread on this.

 

[Thunder Of Zeus]

ness does **** with throws.. his f throw to fair his mad annoying. and his >B can do well in close range or against nubs or cant DI. overall: yeah lucas *****, but they are not totally apart at least. My cousin uses ness, and I use Lucas. it makes for fun battles and even for fun team battles (B/>B is really helpful for alte game recover with team attack on). Yeah, no question tho, ness is outclassed imo

 

[Neon Ness]

I hate this thread and everything it stands for.

But, uh, on a more serious note, one attack does not better Lucas make. Even besides they have their own advantages and disadvantages. But yes, it is generally agreed that Lucas has more and better recovery options.

As a general rule, we're trying to not have anymore "Who's better, Ness or Lucas?" discussions. We've had enough of those, I think. They don't really go anywhere new. No one has yet proved any compelling evidence that one strongly outclasses the other, in my opinion.

Coulda been put in the oh so useful general discussion thread...

 

[Yoshi-Kirby]

It's a 40-60 matchup Ness's favor, but that doesn't matter. I think it just depends on where the match is taking place.

Majority in midair - Ness wins

Majority on ground - Lucas wins

That's why Lucas has to keep Ness on the ground, if he does, then Lucas can beat Ness.

 

[Neon Ness]

It's a 40-60 matchup Ness's favor, but that doesn't matter. I think it just depends on where the match is taking place.

Matchup numbers mean nothing to me. Also "majority in x location" is oversimplifying it. It depends on how Ness uses his aerials; same for Lucas and his ground game. Jumping around when you pick Ness a victory does not yield. You do have to know what you're doing. It's also not impossible for Ness to beat Lucas on land or for Lucas to beat Ness in the air. There are just too many different factors to consider.

 

[Yoshi-Kirby]

Majority in midair - Ness wins

Majority on ground - Lucas wins

I didn't mean that it's impossible for one to beat the other in midair or on ground, I just meant who has the advantage overall in that area. It does depend on playstyle/strategy and how you use your moves in that area. Matchup numbers don't mean anything to me either.

 

[AmazingXeno]

OK thanks everyone.

 

[ChaosTheoryX]

It's a 40-60 matchup Ness's favor, but that doesn't matter. I think it just depends on where the match is taking place.

Majority in midair - Ness wins

Majority on ground - Lucas wins

That's why Lucas has to keep Ness on the ground, if he does, then Lucas can beat Ness.

Lucas also has a grab release on Ness that is only escapaple if DIed perfectly

 

[lil cj]

It's a 40-60 matchup Ness's favor, but that doesn't matter. I think it just depends on where the match is taking place.

Majority in midair - Ness wins

Majority on ground - Lucas wins

That's why Lucas has to keep Ness on the ground, if he does, then Lucas can beat Ness.

If thats the case
shouldnt the match up be 50-50 or 55-45
Im just sayin
All b/c Ness beats Lucas in the air doesnt mean he's better and has the advantage
Your right when it comes to Lucas' ground game....Lucas>Ness

Lucas also has a grab release on Ness that is only escapaple if DIed perfectly

I didnt know that...gotta try that out
Btw...I just found out Sonic has a Grab release on Lucas & Ness...only them though
I didnt know that til a Sonic did it to my Lucas in a tourny
It stops at about 30 -50%
I still won the match though lol

 

[Irsic]

Sonic has grab release combo's on a lot of characters.

 

[ToxiCrow]

Lucas also has a grab release on Ness that is only escapaple if DIed perfectly

i do that. i grab release to ftilt or fsmash. which ever feels better for the situation

 

[ChaosTheoryX]

i do that. i grab release to ftilt or fsmash. which ever feels better for the situation

What I ment is that lucas can regrab Ness after a grab release and there isn't much Ness can do except DI a certain direction, but the DI is hard to pull off so Its not really an infinite but it hurts him bad.

 

[ToxiCrow]

^^^^
i never heard of that..i'll hav to try that out..do u hav any videos of this happening?

 

[Levitas]

I've tried grab releasing lucas as lucas, but his grab comes out too slow. I'll have definitive evidence on friday... probably.

 

[ChaosTheoryX]

^^^^
i never heard of that..i'll hav to try that out..do u hav any videos of this happening?

Nah nobody here mains ness I just do it whenever somebody in my crew decides to play him, but trust me it works. I wouldn't say anything on the boards if it didn't =P

 

[ToxiCrow]

ok. i'll be playing against Yoshi-Kirby tonight so i'll try it against him

 

[ChaosTheoryX]

I'm just suprised that nobody knew about the release chain grab on ness tough o_O

 

[ToxiCrow]

i guess its because his grab is so slow that no one thought it can be used as a release chain grab. i hope you're not tricking us =]

 

[ChaosTheoryX]

i guess its because his grab is so slow that no one thought it can be used as a release chain grab. i hope you're not tricking us =]

is no lies...Tis the truth. Lucas is 1000 years ahead of ness XD

 

[Affinity]

ChaosTheoryX is correct. He showed me this first time I played Ness against him in friendlies a looooong time ago.

I thought it was common knowledge around here lol

 

[prOAPC]

last time i check, Ness released to far for a regrab

 

[ChaosTheoryX]

last time i check, Ness released to far for a regrab

Like I said it is escapable if the Ness player DI's properly

 

[AmazingXeno]

Oh is it a jump release or regular release?

 

[ChaosTheoryX]

Oh is it a jump release or regular release?

Its a regular release. You shouldn't have to worry about him jump releasing because you should be pummeling him the whole time.

 

[Chuee]

lol lucas finally gets a CG

 

[AmazingXeno]

Yah really, 'bout time.