• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Why is the Freeze glitch banned but not the IC infinite?

Speedsk8er

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 16, 2006
Messages
2,212
Location
Raleigh, NC
^read^

Don't they both do the same thing? The opposing player is helpless and you can do whatever you please to him/her until you get sick of them and just throw them out.

Don't get me wrong. ICs are my main but I'd like to see some fairness. If you're gonna ban Freeze glitch, ban Infinite and all versions(including Fox's shine infinites). If you're gonna allow the infinite, allow the freeze glitch.
 

Dogysamich

The Designated Hype Man!
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 3, 2002
Messages
6,140
Location
Warner Robins, Georgia
There are 2 differences.

With the freeze glitch, you freeze your opponent so that they cant do anything and can never regain control (as far as I know). And once you hit them with it, that's it.

As for wobbling.
If you do the down-tilt for wobbling, there's apparently an impossibly small, but still existant, room for escape. Also with wobbling, you can mess up and allow them to escape.

It's the same concept as infinites in other fighting games - people complain about it, but it's not guarenteed.
 

AzN_Lep

Smash Champion
Joined
May 25, 2005
Messages
2,096
Location
San Diego, CA
DogySamich said:
With the freeze glitch, you freeze your opponent so that they cant do anything and can never regain control (as far as I know). And once you hit them with it, that's it.
Well you can unfreeze them if you grab 'em again, so I wouldn't say that they can never regain control. I think that the biggest problem is that there is a chance that you could knock them out of your grab range during the freeze. In this case they would be idefinitely frozen and time w0ould just have to run out.
 

Spontaneous Spaz

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 10, 2006
Messages
57
the freeze glitch may also require a restart of the gamecube in order to continue playing... in a timeless stock battle, wobbling doesn't
 

Xsyven

And how!
BRoomer
Joined
Oct 14, 2002
Messages
14,069
Location
Las Vegas
The freeze glitch is amazingly cheap.

You get them one stock below you, freeze them, and then constantly use their uptilt at them. After 8 minutes, you win.
 

Jihnsius

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 17, 2004
Messages
1,301
Location
Austin, TX
The reason the freeze glitch is banned is because all it takes is one lucky grab + forward B to win the entire match.

The infinite isn't banned yet because the community hasn't decided to ban it yet. If ever there's a tournament where an infinite grab kills the competition, I'm sure it'll get banned.
 

1048576

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 1, 2006
Messages
3,417
Even if you do land the glitch, you can't stall. All forms of stalling are illegal. After the opponent is at a reasonable percentage, he/she can DI down to get in your grab range, at which point you pretty much have to grab-smash them or you forfeit a stock for stalling. Both manuevers are infinite, unless you use d-tilt, but who would?
 

Nintendude

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 23, 2006
Messages
5,024
Location
San Francisco
The answer is simple. Most people freeze glitch by just grabbing with Nana and pressing forward-B, hoping for the best. Tell me what you are supposed to do if Nana does an up-throw and the glitch activates? The match is infinitely stalled.
 

choknater

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Dec 25, 2002
Messages
27,296
Location
Modesto, CA
NNID
choknater
an intriguing and interesting suggestion: some find the infinite easier to set up and execute than the freeze glitch.
 

KevinM

TB12 TB12 TB12
BRoomer
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
13,625
Location
Sickboi in the 401
Not really the freeze glitch takes nothing to set up.. i like desynching them to do it myself. but seriously if someone could get nasty at it they would be broken in tournaments by just freezing someone when their a a stock ahead and taking the match.
 

Wobbles

Desert ******
BRoomer
Joined
Oct 9, 2006
Messages
2,881
Location
Gilbert, AZ
Well, stalling tactics are banned. If you did the freeze glitch to stall, you'd be DQ'ed, plain and simple. And it's also banned because of the possibility of you knocking an opponent out of reach so you can't unfreeze them, thus making the match unfinishable.

However, it's worth noting a few things:

I can execute it in a way that is remarkably consistent and DOESN'T send the opponent out of range for a grab. All you have to do is ledge-chaingrab so that Nana does her forward-throw, then forward+b AWAY from the opponent. They will be at ground level, and since you don't hit them with the forward+b they can't smash DI your hits and move out of reach of you.

Actually, the opponent does have control over their character during the glitch since they can smash DI hits and move around a bit.

It's also worth noting that the freeze glitch can be executed with a large degree of consistency, and it can be controlled to the point where there is nothing random about it at all. I don't really have an opinion on this matter at the moment, but I figure if you guys are gonna talk about it you should know as much as possible.
 

Delphiki

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 20, 2006
Messages
2,065
Location
Sacramento / Berkeley
King, GERM, and many NorCal pros have already decided that wobbling shouldn't be banned, under one condition:

It is not used to stall the match

If you wobble somebody to 100% and smash them for the kill, this doesn't stall. It just gets a kill, albeit slightly slower than a standard CG combo.

When they were discussing this, the freeze glitch came up, and they said the same thing:

The Freeze Glitch should not be banned as long as it is not used to stall.

Personally, I think that in the case you can't regrab you should have to forfeit the game. The risk is yours.
 

choknater

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Dec 25, 2002
Messages
27,296
Location
Modesto, CA
NNID
choknater
xD so if someone gets freeze glitched, they can smash DI up to disallow regrabs and therefore win by the other player's forfeit. that's some funny sh*t
 

ReadySetGo

Smash Ace
Joined
May 24, 2006
Messages
603
Location
PA
Even if the Freeze Glitch wasn't banned who in their right mind would attempt to use it in a match when you could just wobble a stock instead. Like brought up before there is the possibility of your opponent being smart enough to smash DI your hits so they are out of your range and you lose. Wobbling is more consistent and easier to preform, so who even cares about freeze glitching.
 

Wobbles

Desert ******
BRoomer
Joined
Oct 9, 2006
Messages
2,881
Location
Gilbert, AZ
Because we like to get a grab, take a moment to taunt, yell to celebrate, then commence the business of ****** them with your grab.

Funnily enough, I would probably just glitch, taunt, then infinite. I guess there are some steps in there that might be considered unsporting.
 

ReadySetGo

Smash Ace
Joined
May 24, 2006
Messages
603
Location
PA
^^^^^^^


Thats probably why alot of people hate you Wobbles, that and bringing the infinite to public attention. But who cares as long as you have fun who else matters.
 

shadydentist

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 4, 2006
Messages
1,035
Location
La Jolla, CA
I have no problem with wobbling, but like many have said, the freeze glitch may require a restart. This may not be game breaking, but its certainly a huge inconvenience. I feel like it should remain banned.
 

WFL

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 31, 2007
Messages
443
Location
New York
No one hates Wobbles because he can chain grab two people at once with fully charged DK punches, knees, and then shine both of them at the same time using ICs.

I don't know how he does it, but i just accept the fact that he's Wobbles and he's awesome.
 

Delphiki

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 20, 2006
Messages
2,065
Location
Sacramento / Berkeley
Wobbles at most is a bit infamous. Chok - you were at NCT2. lol ^_^ Anyone who was at NCT2 knows what I'm talking about. He just wobbled everyone, even though he could've got first in the pool without it. People didn't like that.
 

Nintendude

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 23, 2006
Messages
5,024
Location
San Francisco
^^^^^^^


Thats probably why alot of people hate you Wobbles, that and bringing the infinite to public attention. But who cares as long as you have fun who else matters.
We've known about it for years. Wobbles just decided to start putting it to good use lol
 

Wobbles

Desert ******
BRoomer
Joined
Oct 9, 2006
Messages
2,881
Location
Gilbert, AZ
People don't like me because I'm a punkass.

And yes, as long as I'm having fun and trampling on the bruised and battered egos of my crying, broken foes, I don't really see what else SHOULD matter. Seriously.

For the record, I don't freeze glitch people unless they ask me to :)
 

Dogysamich

The Designated Hype Man!
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 3, 2002
Messages
6,140
Location
Warner Robins, Georgia
When they were discussing this, the freeze glitch came up, and they said the same thing:

The Freeze Glitch should not be banned as long as it is not used to stall.

Personally, I think that in the case you can't regrab you should have to forfeit the game. The risk is yours.
I know nobody likes to argue dead points, but I have to say somethin about this.

And that is i dont agree with you and your NorCal crew.

Reason being is, there isnt any (other) competitive fighting game that allows infinites that dont have room for error.

-Magneto/Iron Man infinates in MvC2
-Corner Jab infinates in Alpha/CvS2 (hell i have a video of a guy JABBING the other guy to death at a *** alpha 3 tournament, they skipped from like, hit 20-80 or so.

and wobbling would fall under this category too.

The freeze glitch on the other hand is different in the nature that once you hit them, the only error you can do is if you put them where you cant regrab them. You can miss combos all day long and they cant do anything about it.

___

I really dunno why i'm arguing this now, maybe to convince you guys otherwise? --Shrug--
 

Wobbles

Desert ******
BRoomer
Joined
Oct 9, 2006
Messages
2,881
Location
Gilbert, AZ
Yeah, but then you would lose the match if you make that mistake.

So you can't stall and you can't make the match unfinishable. If you think about it, your opponent's ability to Smash DI means that if you start hitting them while they're in the glitch, they can maneuver themselves out of range of grabbing and FORCE you to lose the entire match. So basically, you can freeze glitch somebody, but you can't hit them while they're inside of it, and you can't NOT hit them because that would constitute stalling. The only logical course of action would be to grab them again and combo them from that, which would remove them from the freeze glitch.

So... here's the line we walk: if we have an infinite that can't be escaped, and it's permitted as long as it doesn't stall, we should be permitted to use the glitch provided it isn't used to stall. However, if using the glitch makes the match unfinishable, the glitcher loses the match. Since the only way to obey both those stipulations is to re-grab and remove them from the glitch, what we're left with is a very high risk, very low reward technique that's really hard to do and doesn't benefit you any more than the various other combos at your disposal.

All of that is fine by me because, again, the freeze glitch has very little use in competitive play. It jeopardizes your chance to win even when it isn't banned. In my game, I prefer to make every opening count, and wasting it on an attempted glitch that would have very low payout is silly.

There is one exception, however; if you grab somebody out of the freeze glitch, you can infinite them without any time wasted at start up, meaning that if I could somehow glitch you at zero you couldn't escape the infinite... AT ZERO PERCENT. So if the freeze glitch wasn't banned, I might use it as a risky set-up for the infinite at very very low percents.

We don't need to ban the freeze glitch to maintain variety in the game. We can place decent restrictions on it to keep it from being broken, and if it doesn't ruin the competitive nature of the game, a ban simply isn't warranted. No matter how stupid or "gay" (why is the Smash community so obsessed with that **** word to describe things we don't like?) something is, banning it is not called for unless it ruins the game.

Again though, like I said... with a rare exception, freeze glitching is pointless, dangerous, and difficult. The restrictions, which are completely reasonable, make it pretty much useless.
 

Nintendude

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 23, 2006
Messages
5,024
Location
San Francisco
After pulling off the freeze glitch couldn't you just down-throw repeatedly? When using the freeze glitch in the Classic, Adventure, and All-Star world record strategies you are supposed to grab and down-throw whenever the computer starts drifting away due to Smash DI. This keeps him in a grabbable range and he remains frozen.
 

mathos

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 11, 2004
Messages
2,440
Location
In the COK
Grabbing breaks the freeze glitch. Once a frozen opponent is grabbed they are frozen no longer.
 

Nintendude

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 23, 2006
Messages
5,024
Location
San Francisco
Grabbing breaks the freeze glitch. Once a frozen opponent is grabbed they are frozen no longer.
No it doesn't. It only breaks it if you attack the grabbed opponent or use a throw besides down or back-throw.
If you don't believe me search for Black Clothes Link's Ice Climbers Adventure world record (like 7.2 million I think) on youtube. If you can't find it I'll post a link later. I can't right now because I'm at school (>_>) and they blocked youtube.

edit:
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZivYvH9JR8

Watch the Corneria level to see what I mean.
 

choknater

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Dec 25, 2002
Messages
27,296
Location
Modesto, CA
NNID
choknater
lol none of this compares to when i used the freeze glitch on delphiki... using captain falcon

that sht was unbelievable
 

Delphiki

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 20, 2006
Messages
2,065
Location
Sacramento / Berkeley
Chok did I forward B at all when that happened? NK says I did...but I'm pretty sure I didn't....but it wasn't a normal freeze glitch either.

Here's what happened guys.

Friendly at FD...me and Chok, ICs vs. Falcon

Chok grabs Nana when the Climbers were side by side and back throws. BOTH OF THEM FROZE JUST BEFORE NANA WAS RELEASED. So Falcon's standing there with an ****** attached to his foot. Even wierder....when I F-smashed him it unfroze him. :confused:
 

Shai Hulud

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 21, 2006
Messages
1,495
Location
Oregon
Chok did I forward B at all when that happened? NK says I did...but I'm pretty sure I didn't....but it wasn't a normal freeze glitch either.

Here's what happened guys.

Friendly at FD...me and Chok, ICs vs. Falcon

Chok grabs Nana when the Climbers were side by side and back throws. BOTH OF THEM FROZE JUST BEFORE NANA WAS RELEASED. So Falcon's standing there with an ****** attached to his foot. Even wierder....when I F-smashed him it unfroze him. :confused:
Hahaha. What do you do if something like that happens in a tourney match?
 

DynamicDuo

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 22, 2006
Messages
1,731
Location
Gotham City
^read^

Don't they both do the same thing? The opposing player is helpless and you can do whatever you please to him/her until you get sick of them and just throw them out.

Don't get me wrong. ICs are my main but I'd like to see some fairness. If you're gonna ban Freeze glitch, ban Infinite and all versions(including Fox's shine infinites). If you're gonna allow the infinite, allow the freeze glitch.
did u see nintendudes vid? theres ur reasons case closed.
 
Top Bottom