Why _____ Should be Banned. Video Evidence

[clydeaker]

Without video evidence many controversial meta game legality arguments don't have a good foundation to stand on. As such I would like to collect as much video evidence for what the Wii U and 3DS rule set should be on this thread.

If you can come up with or find video evidence for why a certain rule, stage, character combo, etc. should or shouldn't be allowed please post it in the comments below and I will include in this original post.

Video footage from other smash games such as Brawl, Melee, Smash 64, Project M, etc. will not be acceptable. If the footage is outdated and has been patched the footage will labeled as such.

REMEMBER: many of these topics, such as the legality of custom moves and Mii Fighters, are very controversial. This is not the place to argue over these topics, but a place to post and discuss the reliability of these videos as evidence.

Rules:

Spoiler

Why Team Attack should always be on:

Spoiler

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOwJyhezPHo.

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q69sHGY89v0.

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZOSP5XnEUk.

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npGFnN5a6fg.

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tehKTd7fhn8.

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-ULm6Sz1ks.

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFYYWWC--z4.

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Wfghw7zH1Q.

Why Team Attack should NOT be on:

Spoiler

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vhtpldvd-_M.

- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jetg1gL-bDs&t=0m34s.

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EP4wgLsPPs.

Why Items should be banned:

Spoiler

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1uiTvankNo. [MELEE]

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7qO_teeM0w.

Why Sudden Death should be banned:

Spoiler

- http://gfycat.com/FrankScarceFlicker.

Stages:

Spoiler

Why 'permanent' Walk-off stages should be banned:

Spoiler

SSBM Zelgadis (Fox) vs Eddie (Ganon) [MELEE]
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRBZKre9M_M.

Why walk-offs are banned
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4mdWobFiQA.

Why Walk Offs Should Be Banned
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl7yIWQKQNU.

Smash 4 Why Walkoffs are banned
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPVFB2ACMqI.

Why Walkoffs Are Banned.
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyGmqzQALlU.

Why all walk off stages are banned!!!!
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEWO-uCWsgo.

Bass.exe (Ryu) vs Mizar (Sheik) Smash 4 Replay
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyD265txq9Y.

Super Smash Bros. for Wii U - Walkoff Shenanigans | 8-Player Smash
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PJ6bfKrezE.

Why 8-Player Smash stages with removed hazards should be allowed:

Spoiler

Using 5+ players in 8-Player Smash will eliminate stage hazards on certain stages.

How To: Play Without Hazards (Fast Method) - Super Smash Bros. Wii U HD
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQB4HEphKfY.

Super Smash Bros. Wii U: 8-Player Smash Stage Changes & Differences
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DZ2hVv9YP4.

SSB4 No Hazards on Pokemon Stadium 2, Pyrosphere, and Norfair
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afhOUrOZPzI.

Dakpo dropping the stage knowledge | How to make Pokemon Stadium 2 tournament legal in Smash 4
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyCjxLKgn0Q.

Why Wuhu Island should be banned:

Spoiler

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8dKc7RGU7o. [PATCHED]

Why Pilotwings should be banned:

Spoiler

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqYWXVs2JE0.

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bD9m_zYPexM.

Why Temple should be Banned:

Spoiler

Melee - CPU Fox stuck in infinite loop on Temple [MELEE]
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__KijfMnaxY.

The stupidest set of Brawl you will ever see [BRAWL]
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmdnZR75pVc.

Why Temple REALLY Was Banned [BRAWL]
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvAyiFUYPqQ.

Why Palutena's Temple should be Banned:

Spoiler

[SSB4] BANNED! ~ Palutena's Temple ft. Nisky808
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnzvaUr4ADE.

How BIG is Palutena's Temple in Smash Bros? Head-to-Head Comparison w/ Hyrule Temple (Wii U)
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AsKlC-y_7Y.

Why Pokémon Stadium 2 should be banned:

Spoiler

Why Pokemon Stadium 2 should be banned in Smash 4 [SATIRE] [UNDER DEBATE]
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuXrfrQgImA.

Why Pokemon Stadium 2 should be banned in Smash 4 #2 [SATIRE] [UNDER DEBATE]
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8DTy2DGr8g.

Why Kongo Jungle 64 should be banned:

Spoiler

- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNl6zWFHaJk&t=16m50s.

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJMqS3lqxU8.

Why Mario Circuit (Wii U) should be banned:

Spoiler

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UUvoI9u6tOOmZWlG6qW7i2sg&v=-swKdo3QbDA.

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1uiTvankNo.

Characters:

Spoiler

Why Diddy Kong should be banned: HOO HAH!:

Spoiler

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yB-6oRB4ABo. [PATCHED]

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxALn6UDNB8. [PATCHED]

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnoFMmhyj_E. [PATCHED]

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9dSHeJ8pnM. [PATCHED]

Why Mr. Game and Watch teams should be banned with Team Attack on:

Spoiler

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vhtpldvd-_M.

- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jetg1gL-bDs&t=0m34s.

Why double Pac-Man teams should be banned:

Spoiler

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7E3i7lNHIfk.

Why double Pac-Man teams should NOT be banned:

Spoiler

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTRdl82FzuY.

Why certain custom moves should be banned:

Spoiler

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oK_RLWCp2L0. [PATCHED]

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waR9js3dabI. [PATCHED]

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HqWB-T-xyc. [PATCHED]

Why certain custom moves should NOT be banned:

Spoiler

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMY7riMgkPA.

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5epfmtIyYzc.

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XJihjkSmbs.

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4P4P3H8SG0.

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dElvzsxcVdo.

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UI7zh4N1BM.

Why Mii Fighters should be allowed:

Spoiler

How to make a Mii Fighter in less than 30 Seconds
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rRLERdIDMA.

Why [Blank] Should Be Banned YouTube Playlist:
- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLwgLaWd_QemmMHh51UjCLFM6dqmEC1hcK.

 

[MysteriousSilver]

The first "Pilotwings" one is Wuhu, and that glitch was patched out.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Both of those Pokémon Stadium 2 are terrible examples.
So are the "Stage Hazards" and the Castle Siege example of walkoffs.


And, despite the tons of videos, I'm not convinced on the logical reason why Team Attack "must always" be on.
(don't misunderstand, I like Team Attack On more and it's been the standard for years, I just don't find the reason behind it)

 

[Dre89]

Both of those Pokémon Stadium 2 are terrible examples.
So are the "Stage Hazards" and the Castle Siege example of walkoffs.


And, despite the tons of videos, I'm not convinced on the logical reason why Team Attack "must always" be on.
(don't misunderstand, I like Team Attack On more and it's been the standard for years, I just don't find the reason behind it)

I don't know what the original reasoning was, but it makes the game more complex. Apart from the added skill of not harming your ally, you can do stuff like save them or strats like bucket loading, healing the Mother boys etc.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Think of it this way: If OFF were the standard, healing 100% in under 5 seconds or filling a OHKO move would be seen as bad as we see this projectile spam right now.
"Adding skill" itself is not entirely convincing. If it was everyone would be using Customs, or more complex stages, but we just don't.

 

[Rinku リンク]

Think of it this way: If OFF were the standard, healing 100% in under 5 seconds or filling a OHKO move would be seen as bad as we see this projectile spam right now.
"Adding skill" itself is not entirely convincing. If it was everyone would be using Customs, or more complex stages, but we just don't.

I wish Team attack was on in most cases but in the back of my mind this is exactly what I'm afraid of.

 

[Masonomace]

I'm super sad there isn't a video on "Why Team Attack should always be on" in regards to double Yoshi. My friend & I play some For Glory Team Smash every now & then, but when we want to cheese people we always choose double Yoshi & heavily use Down air. With the recent patch, you can't even drop shield from one Yoshi Down air, so the only way a shield isn't auto-broken by two Down airs is if they're shield-poked. Again, if my friend & I play again sometime, we'll get it up on Youtube & link it here to add to the OP?

 

[Boomstick720]

First video for "pilot wings" is wuhu.

And its an ancient glitch that has been patched for a while now.

Also to answer the question of why team attack is on in doubles, the problem is that it becomes a game of throwing out as many hitboxes as possible. Its less of a strategic game and more of a mash as many buttons as you can near people and hope you hit something.

On the other hand, team attack on forces you to keep in mind your partner, and rewards synergy and creativity. If you see a teammate in a lot of trouble, such as having a shield broken and is about to be hit by a fully charged smash attack, you can swat them out of the way to save them, whereas without TA, you would just have to hope you can reach the people attacking them before then actually manage to attack, which rarely happens. It also potentially gives use to comparatively weaker attacks that each character has to use as a "save teammate" sort of an attack rather than "kill enemy" one. This can also be used to save your teammate from falling to their death in many cases. Sure, there are some busted team synergy stuff, but the benefits of TA on far outweigh the down sides.

 

[ぱみゅ]

We still have the exact same problem.
What you just described is a subset of skills that are added to a Team Attack ON metagame.
"Adding more skills is better for the game", right? I agree with that.
But if it is like that, why Customs and Stage knowledge are so frowned upon?

 

[Masonomace]

Customs could be frowned upon because they'll most likely be seen as "jank" always. When a local event near me hosted Smash 4 tournaments with Customs on, there was a team of Robin & Game & Watch where the Robin used the custom Side B called Fire Wall to fill up Bucket. It's actually quite formidable to fight against because of how Fire Wall is a large up-close hitbox that acts as protection for G&W. On top of getting a ton of invincibility frames for filling the Bucket, now the Bucket practically has OHKO power that can even kill Monado Shield or Decisive Shield at mid percents.

Strategies like that are cool imo, but to many eyes watching, that can definitely be frowned upon & be dismissed as jank immediately.

Also we do need some better example videos for the favor of banning PS2.

 

[Ansou]

It feels like G&W's bucket will always be really good in doubles, customs or not. Before it was Pikachu's Thunder and now it's Sheik's Vanish. The move will just be a bit overpowered in doubles unless the devs make some serious adjustments to it.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Customs could be frowned upon because they'll most likely be seen as "jank" always. When a local event near me hosted Smash 4 tournaments with Customs on, there was a team of Robin & Game & Watch where the Robin used the custom Side B called Fire Wall to fill up Bucket. It's actually quite formidable to fight against because of how Fire Wall is a large up-close hitbox that acts as protection for G&W. On top of getting a ton of invincibility frames for filling the Bucket, now the Bucket practically has OHKO power that can even kill Monado Shield or Decisive Shield at mid percents.

Strategies like that are cool imo, but to many eyes watching, that can definitely be frowned upon & be dismissed as jank immediately.

Also we do need some better example videos for the favor of banning PS2.

Well that's just hypocrisy from the community.... Dem double standards.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Well that's just hypocrisy from the community.... Dem double standards.

Are you talking about this vs. Sheik & Watch teams?

 

[ArikadoSD]

We still have the exact same problem.
What you just described is a subset of skills that are added to a Team Attack ON metagame.
"Adding more skills is better for the game", right? I agree with that.
But if it is like that, why Customs and Stage knowledge are so frowned upon?

Because said customs and stages are, simply put, broken.

Also about PS2 videos, I saw one the other day where Sheik did dthrow > uair > double jump uair in the wind segment of the stage and it just carried diddy kong all the way to the upper blastzone when he was at like 20% and died. Don't have the video though.

I'm sure all of you know why halberd/delfino/castle siege are broken and there are hundreds of examples that you can find by watching any match played on said stage.

 

[Ansou]

clydeaker Please update the OP! As already mentioned, the first video of Pilotwings is actually a patched out glitch on Wuhu Island. Also, the videos on the 10 best custom specials don't even mention anything of which moves should be banned. They explain that some specials are good, but not that they are broken/bannable. The videos on PS2 demonstrate that the wind transformation might be problematic, but not exactly in the best way. Also, even the title says that they are satire. Actually, I think this whole thread needs a revision. If you're going to make a thread like this (which I appreciate), please take it seriously!

Because said customs and stages are, simply put, broken.

Also about PS2 videos, I saw one the other day where Sheik did dthrow > uair > double jump uair in the wind segment of the stage and it just carried diddy kong all the way to the upper blastzone when he was at like 20% and died. Don't have the video though.

I'm sure all of you know why halberd/delfino/castle siege are broken and there are hundreds of examples that you can find by watching any match played on said stage.

If you're going to claim that Custom Specials, Halberd, Delfino Plaza and Castle Siege are broken, then please back that up with links to videos explaining/demonstrating why they are broken! That's what this thread is for.

 

[ArikadoSD]

I'm not gonna go out of my way and waste time to find vids of stuff that happens very often and I'm sure even you know about and have seen before. If you were watching MLG at all last night then it happened there with 6WX against someone in Delfino where Sonic got a kill at ~20% and with Fatality vs. Grim Turtle where Fatality got a kill at 0% thanks to the walk offs in Castle Siege.

 

[Reila]

I'm not gonna go out of my way and waste time to find vids of stuff that happens very often and I'm sure even you know about and have seen before. If you were watching MLG at all last night then it happened there with 6WX against someone in Delfino where Sonic got a kill at ~20% and with Fatality vs. Grim Turtle where Fatality got a kill at 0% thanks to the walk offs in Castle Siege.

Nice (lack of) arguments there.

 

[Wintropy]

I'm not gonna go out of my way and waste time to find vids of stuff that happens very often and I'm sure even you know about and have seen before. If you were watching MLG at all last night then it happened there with 6WX against someone in Delfino where Sonic got a kill at ~20% and with Fatality vs. Grim Turtle where Fatality got a kill at 0% thanks to the walk offs in Castle Siege.

For those of us who weren't watching, how about providing something substantial?

"This is broken, you should know why" isn't a valid refutation. This is a thread for citational evidence. If you don't want to "waste your time", then don't come into the thread and make a point without backing it up.

 

[Powerman293]

Smashville should be banned. Evidence: That one time ZeRo faired someone to the edge of the screen as Sheik and they couldn't do anything.

The Fairplane will become much more prevalent in the meta game as tiem goes on and we should take precautions now to stop the easy kills.

 

[Ansou]

Mmyeah... Kills that happen at low percents because one of the players has really poor positioning at the wrong time simply won't work as evidence that something is bannable.

 

[FullMoon]

I'm surprised that my walk-off video ended up here considering it was meant to be just a joke lol.

 

[ChikiLucario]

Why Sonic should be banned: Post any sonic match and I think it should be obvious

kappa

Edit: Lol I love the URL for this thread. It literally has -_____- in it.

 

[clydeaker]

The first "Pilotwings" one is Wuhu, and that glitch was patched out.

Fixed

Both of those Pokémon Stadium 2 are terrible examples.
So are the "Stage Hazards" and the Castle Siege example of walkoffs.


And, despite the tons of videos, I'm not convinced on the logical reason why Team Attack "must always" be on.
(don't misunderstand, I like Team Attack On more and it's been the standard for years, I just don't find the reason behind it)

Maybe you could make a video supporting your opinion.

First video for "pilot wings" is wuhu.
And its an ancient glitch that has been patched for a while now.

I fixed it.

clydeaker Please update the OP! As already mentioned, the first video of Pilotwings is actually a patched out glitch on Wuhu Island. Also, the videos on the 10 best custom specials don't even mention anything of which moves should be banned. They explain that some specials are good, but not that they are broken/bannable. The videos on PS2 demonstrate that the wind transformation might be problematic, but not exactly in the best way. Also, even the title says that they are satire. Actually, I think this whole thread needs a revision. If you're going to make a thread like this (which I appreciate), please take it seriously!


If you're going to claim that Custom Specials, Halberd, Delfino Plaza and Castle Siege are broken, then please back that up with links to videos explaining/demonstrating why they are broken! That's what this thread is for.

Sorry, I haven't been paying much attention to this thread because I've been kind of busy lately. I'll go fix these problems right now.

 

[Ansou]

Fixed

Maybe you could make a video supporting your opinion.

I fixed it.

Sorry, I haven't been paying much attention to this thread because I've been kind of busy lately. I'll go fix these problems right now.

Obviously, you're not going to be solely responsible for finding good videos for this thread, just don't put any videos in that doesn't fit the subject very well. If people want to find/make videos that explains and demonstrates why something is truly bannable, then that's great.

 

[wizrad]

inb4 "Mii Fighters should be banned because of this video of me not DI-ing in and dying to a Helicopter Kick at 40%"

 

[GeneralLedge]

Ample counter-argument for Mii Brawler:

Brawler's entire mission statement is putting you into a bad stage position and capitalizing off of Helicopter Kick's incredible off-stage "disjoint" (relative to the stage). If you allow Brawler to put you in this bad position, it isn't jank; you forgot to pick up your controller. Heli-Kick can't do jack from mid-stage.

Ample counter-argument for other Miis:

They ain't Mii Brawler.

 

[wizrad]

B-b-but Gunner is campy and Swordfighter has a potential but extremely difficult infinite! AND THEY'RE BOTH MIIS ANYWAYS!

 

[ZarroTsu]

B-b-but Gunner is campy and Swordfighter has a potential but extremely difficult infinite! AND THEY'RE BOTH MIIS ANYWAYS!

Wiz, I know you're invested, but please don't provoke with sarcasm. It isn't helping anyone.

 

[Bill cipher3]

To why sudden death should be baned that's why most Torneys when sudden death happens you do another one stock match. Because sudden death is all by luck, luck and luck.

 

[ChikiLucario]

B-b-but Gunner is campy and Swordfighter has a potential but extremely difficult infinite! AND THEY'RE BOTH MIIS ANYWAYS!

Oh? I didn't know Swordfighter has an infinite. I wouldn't mind seeing that, brb youtube, but if it's not there, mind showing us?

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Customs could be frowned upon because they'll most likely be seen as "jank" always. When a local event near me hosted Smash 4 tournaments with Customs on, there was a team of Robin & Game & Watch where the Robin used the custom Side B called Fire Wall to fill up Bucket. It's actually quite formidable to fight against because of how Fire Wall is a large up-close hitbox that acts as protection for G&W. On top of getting a ton of invincibility frames for filling the Bucket, now the Bucket practically has OHKO power that can even kill Monado Shield or Decisive Shield at mid percents.

Strategies like that are cool imo, but to many eyes watching, that can definitely be frowned upon & be dismissed as jank immediately.

Also we do need some better example videos for the favor of banning PS2.

For what it's worth, after we did that and lost to MJG's team in GFs, he offered his credible opinion that as dumb as our team was that Sheik & Watch is "worse" (meaning Sheik & Watch, which relies upon Sheik's default up-B, is more powerful). All powerful bucket strats are pretty dumb in doubles, but I don't think customs are really the root of that so much as the fact that G&W's default bucket is really poorly designed for team attack on team matches.

I don't think this topic can really work. For any controversial ban, there won't exist clear and convincing evidence in favor of a ban. If such evidence were possible to produce, the topic would not be controversial and everyone would agree on the ban. For instance, we all pretty much agree that it's necessary to ban Great Cave Offensive; clear automatic win strategies in many match-ups can be demonstrated on that very poor competitive stage. If you talk about custom moves or Castle Siege or Pokemon Stadium 2 or Smashville or Sonic or anything like that where you can find pretty much anyone who wouldn't agree with the ban, there's always something substantial the victim could have done to avoid problems, and that fact precludes any sort of videos like this topic aspires to promote. I like the idea of relying on clear and convincing video evidence to support bans, but I don't think anything but the most obvious of bans could possibly be supported in that fashion.

 

[Mizzy Moe]

speaking of sonic bans why does everyone hate him and want him gone its honestly 1 your too big of a nintendo fanboy and when sega walks into the picture your boner goes down and you start ragin or 2 u mad. mostly only arguements ive hear is "hes too fast" which is where i say do you even know who sonic is HES THE FASTEST THING ALIVE he better be the fastest character in smash and i also hear most people just spam side b which if you let me i will too side b to nair is one of his quickest and best damaging options he has if your gonna let me sit here and rack up damage why wouldnt i? i played someone on FG the other day and literally did nothin but run jump and falcon punch why not he let me hit it over and over and i still even won cuz of it but i dont see people sayin because of being able to spam hes broken and should be banned. ive been bodied plenty of times as sonic as long as you know how to play the game and not be paralyzed you should at least have a chance to beat sonic i dont know i just get annoyed when people say hes wayyyyyy too good like sure yeah he is good but hes not unbeatable theres other characters id say are better than sonic aka shiek zss luma yoshi and maybe fox (i just personally have a hard time in that matchup) and not to mention others that can counter sonics side b, mega man, ryu, falco, link really anyone that has a projectile can stop him its just is the sonic player good and able to adapt to not relying on its damage or he gonna sd outta frustration of not being able to get in. it just bugs me when someone cant deal with a character they are automatically broken and need banned sure i absolutely hate luma but i dont think she needs banned just more matchup experience to figure out what the hell to do when gettin carried off the top of the stage by strings of up air..


back on topic yeah i dont think the pokemon stadium or castle siege were good examples like both the ryu or shiek woulda got the kill anyways in my opinion its not like one of them back thrown at 0 for the kill which woulda been alot janker and on pokemon stadium im sorry but that greninja shoulda known better then to get under pac man like that at such a height

 

[clydeaker]

speaking of sonic bans why does everyone hate him and want him gone its honestly 1 your too big of a nintendo fanboy and when sega walks into the picture your boner goes down and you start ragin or 2 u mad. mostly only arguements ive hear is "hes too fast" which is where i say do you even know who sonic is HES THE FASTEST THING ALIVE he better be the fastest character in smash and i also hear most people just spam side b which if you let me i will too side b to nair is one of his quickest and best damaging options he has if your gonna let me sit here and rack up damage why wouldnt i? i played someone on FG the other day and literally did nothin but run jump and falcon punch why not he let me hit it over and over and i still even won cuz of it but i dont see people sayin because of being able to spam hes broken and should be banned. ive been bodied plenty of times as sonic as long as you know how to play the game and not be paralyzed you should at least have a chance to beat sonic i dont know i just get annoyed when people say hes wayyyyyy too good like sure yeah he is good but hes not unbeatable theres other characters id say are better than sonic aka shiek zss luma yoshi and maybe fox (i just personally have a hard time in that matchup) and not to mention others that can counter sonics side b, mega man, ryu, falco, link really anyone that has a projectile can stop him its just is the sonic player good and able to adapt to not relying on its damage or he gonna sd outta frustration of not being able to get in. it just bugs me when someone cant deal with a character they are automatically broken and need banned sure i absolutely hate luma but i dont think she needs banned just more matchup experience to figure out what the hell to do when gettin carried off the top of the stage by strings of up air..


back on topic yeah i dont think the pokemon stadium or castle siege were good examples like both the ryu or shiek woulda got the kill anyways in my opinion its not like one of them back thrown at 0 for the kill which woulda been alot janker and on pokemon stadium im sorry but that greninja shoulda known better then to get under pac man like that at such a height

Sonic fanboy...

 

[TheHypnotoad]

speaking of sonic bans why does everyone hate him and want him gone its honestly 1 your too big of a nintendo fanboy and when sega walks into the picture your boner goes down and you start ragin or 2 u mad. mostly only arguements ive hear is "hes too fast" which is where i say do you even know who sonic is HES THE FASTEST THING ALIVE he better be the fastest character in smash and i also hear most people just spam side b which if you let me i will too side b to nair is one of his quickest and best damaging options he has if your gonna let me sit here and rack up damage why wouldnt i? i played someone on FG the other day and literally did nothin but run jump and falcon punch why not he let me hit it over and over and i still even won cuz of it but i dont see people sayin because of being able to spam hes broken and should be banned. ive been bodied plenty of times as sonic as long as you know how to play the game and not be paralyzed you should at least have a chance to beat sonic i dont know i just get annoyed when people say hes wayyyyyy too good like sure yeah he is good but hes not unbeatable theres other characters id say are better than sonic aka shiek zss luma yoshi and maybe fox (i just personally have a hard time in that matchup) and not to mention others that can counter sonics side b, mega man, ryu, falco, link really anyone that has a projectile can stop him its just is the sonic player good and able to adapt to not relying on its damage or he gonna sd outta frustration of not being able to get in. it just bugs me when someone cant deal with a character they are automatically broken and need banned sure i absolutely hate luma but i dont think she needs banned just more matchup experience to figure out what the hell to do when gettin carried off the top of the stage by strings of up air..


back on topic yeah i dont think the pokemon stadium or castle siege were good examples like both the ryu or shiek woulda got the kill anyways in my opinion its not like one of them back thrown at 0 for the kill which woulda been alot janker and on pokemon stadium im sorry but that greninja shoulda known better then to get under pac man like that at such a height

There are these cool new things called "periods" and "commas." You should try them out sometime.