I've noticed a pattern that every version of Super Smash Bros. has a different official rule set stock, for example:
I understand competitive Melee came first, then Brawl, Smash 64, project M, and finally Smash 4, but thats not the point I'm trying to make. The point is each game seems to be getting slightly slower and harder to get a KO in. Each of these rule-sets generally use an 8 minuet timer for a match and each meet up is best 2 out of 3... that is except for Smash 4.
Most if not all Smash 3DS & Wii U tournaments I've been too, seen on YouTube, or even read about have been 2 stock, 5-6 minutes, and best of 2 out of 3 or best 3 out of 5 (although finals could be best 4 out of 7). Now I understand that because it's 2 stock best of 3 out of 5 (6-10 stock total) instead of 3 stock best of 2 out of 3 (6-9 stock total) it uses about the same amount (usually slightly more) time and stock as Brawl rule set, but allows more character match-ups and stage choices. That's all fine and dandy, however you don't have as good of a chance to make a comeback with 2 stock. Your only choice is to hopefully win your future matches if you have a slip-up or two. Heck even the default game rules have stock set to 3. The point is every single Smash games competitive matches are timed to be a maximum of 8 Minutes and each round is best of 2 games out of 3. Smash 4 is a bit slower like Brawl and fits 3 stock 8 minutes quite nicely.
In my opinion 2 stock is cheep compared to Brawls 3 stock, let alone Project M, Melee, and Smash 64's 4-5 stock games. The only reason I know of why the community unofficially choose to use 2 stock is because online For Glory mode used 2 stock for quick online games. I guess I kind of understand why Smash 3DS would use 2 stock instead of 3 because it's on a hand held device and is more popular with For Glory mode than multilayer smash, but Smash Wii U is different. Smash Wii U is generally considered the competitive choice over Smash 3DS fro multiple reasons. Not everything that applied to Smash 3DS should apply to Smash Wii U.
As you can see from The Ultimate Smash 4Ruleset Poll Results, the majority of the Smash 4 community agrees that Super Smash Bros. for Wii U should use 3 stock 8 minutes for singles.
The results as of May 23rd, 2015
Although 3 stock may be more accurate than 2 stock, it's more time consuming. It all depends on what's more important to you, accuracy or time.
This topic is kind of in a gray area. It's easy to understand why 5 stock best of 7 may be too long and why 1 stock best of 1 may not be accurate enough. Everyone has there own cut-off line. Personally I feel like 3 stock best of 3 is were we can all meet up in the middle of the gray and agree on a standard set stock, but that's just my opinion.
Here's a proposals:
edit: I copied this from a latter post because it's a good proposal that both sides of the argument can at least somewhat agree on.
What if we were to use both 2 and 3 stock? The basic idea is that Pools will use 2 stock and Finals are 3 stock. This way pools won't take up so much time, and finals will have more accurate results.
POOLS:
Main Tournament:
Tournament Finals:
Remember not every tournament will have the same amount of participants. You might need to use a slightly different variation of this proposal depending on how big your tournament is. According to SmashBoards rankings categories there are a total of 8 different types of tournaments: Unranked, Pools, Teams, Online, Local, Regional, National, and International. Each of them will require slightly different rules in order to get the best possible time and accuracy for each match-up.
3 Stock will only get implemented into the meta game if tournaments (mostly major TO) start using 3 stock instead of 2. I recommend you consult with your local tournaments to see if they are willing to use 3 stock. I understand some of you have already done that, but if we all can do this the meta game will change in our favor.
There is one more thing I would like to show on the topic of stock. Although this is very unlikely you can still win a 3 stock, best 2 out of 3 match even if you loose more stock than your opponent. The outcome can be even more drastic with 4 or 5 stock or best of 4 out of 7. For example:
Here are some more threads on the subject of Smash 4s competitive rule-set and stock specifically:
- Competitive Smash Ruleset Discussion.
- Smash 4 Ruleset Poll Discussion.
- Is there any data proving 2 stock is actually faster than 3 stock?.
- 2 stock or 3 for Smash WiiU tournaments?.
What do you think? Should we use 2 stock or 3 stock? and how much time for each?
N64 - 5 stock [8-ish optional minutes]
Melee - 4 stock 8 minutes (Project M)
Brawl - 3 stock 8 minutes
Wii U - 2 stock 6 minutes unofficially (3DS)
(Next thing you know the Next Super Smash Bros. will use one stock. Ha ha!)Melee - 4 stock 8 minutes (Project M)
Brawl - 3 stock 8 minutes
Wii U - 2 stock 6 minutes unofficially (3DS)
I understand competitive Melee came first, then Brawl, Smash 64, project M, and finally Smash 4, but thats not the point I'm trying to make. The point is each game seems to be getting slightly slower and harder to get a KO in. Each of these rule-sets generally use an 8 minuet timer for a match and each meet up is best 2 out of 3... that is except for Smash 4.
Most if not all Smash 3DS & Wii U tournaments I've been too, seen on YouTube, or even read about have been 2 stock, 5-6 minutes, and best of 2 out of 3 or best 3 out of 5 (although finals could be best 4 out of 7). Now I understand that because it's 2 stock best of 3 out of 5 (6-10 stock total) instead of 3 stock best of 2 out of 3 (6-9 stock total) it uses about the same amount (usually slightly more) time and stock as Brawl rule set, but allows more character match-ups and stage choices. That's all fine and dandy, however you don't have as good of a chance to make a comeback with 2 stock. Your only choice is to hopefully win your future matches if you have a slip-up or two. Heck even the default game rules have stock set to 3. The point is every single Smash games competitive matches are timed to be a maximum of 8 Minutes and each round is best of 2 games out of 3. Smash 4 is a bit slower like Brawl and fits 3 stock 8 minutes quite nicely.
In my opinion 2 stock is cheep compared to Brawls 3 stock, let alone Project M, Melee, and Smash 64's 4-5 stock games. The only reason I know of why the community unofficially choose to use 2 stock is because online For Glory mode used 2 stock for quick online games. I guess I kind of understand why Smash 3DS would use 2 stock instead of 3 because it's on a hand held device and is more popular with For Glory mode than multilayer smash, but Smash Wii U is different. Smash Wii U is generally considered the competitive choice over Smash 3DS fro multiple reasons. Not everything that applied to Smash 3DS should apply to Smash Wii U.
As you can see from The Ultimate Smash 4Ruleset Poll Results, the majority of the Smash 4 community agrees that Super Smash Bros. for Wii U should use 3 stock 8 minutes for singles.
The results as of May 23rd, 2015
Although 3 stock may be more accurate than 2 stock, it's more time consuming. It all depends on what's more important to you, accuracy or time.
<------2--------Stock--------3------>
<---Less---Accurate---More--->
<---Less------Time------More--->
<---Less---Accurate---More--->
<---Less------Time------More--->
This topic is kind of in a gray area. It's easy to understand why 5 stock best of 7 may be too long and why 1 stock best of 1 may not be accurate enough. Everyone has there own cut-off line. Personally I feel like 3 stock best of 3 is were we can all meet up in the middle of the gray and agree on a standard set stock, but that's just my opinion.
<---1---2---3---4---5---> Stock #
<---1-------3--------5---> Best of #
<---1-------3--------5---> Best of #
Here's a proposals:
edit: I copied this from a latter post because it's a good proposal that both sides of the argument can at least somewhat agree on.
What if we were to use both 2 and 3 stock? The basic idea is that Pools will use 2 stock and Finals are 3 stock. This way pools won't take up so much time, and finals will have more accurate results.
POOLS:
- 2 stock. (4-6 total)
- 5-6 minutes. (10-18 total)
- Best of 2 out of 3.
(Estimated average play time: 6 min.)
- 5-6 minutes. (10-18 total)
- Best of 2 out of 3.
(Estimated average play time: 6 min.)
Main Tournament:
- 3 stock. (6-9 total)
- 8 minutes. (16-24 total)
- Best of 2 out of 3.
(Estimated average play time: 8 min.)
OR
- 2 stock. (6-10 total)
- 5-6 minutes. (15-35 total)
- Best of 3 out of 5.
(Estimated average play time: 8 min.)
(Note: both options arguably take up the same amount of time, but 2 stock best of 3 may be slightly more time consuming over all)- 8 minutes. (16-24 total)
- Best of 2 out of 3.
(Estimated average play time: 8 min.)
OR
- 2 stock. (6-10 total)
- 5-6 minutes. (15-35 total)
- Best of 3 out of 5.
(Estimated average play time: 8 min.)
Tournament Finals:
- 3 stock. (9-15 total)
- 8 minutes. (24-40 total)
- Best of 3 out of 5.
(Estimated average play time: 12 min.)
- 8 minutes. (24-40 total)
- Best of 3 out of 5.
(Estimated average play time: 12 min.)
Remember not every tournament will have the same amount of participants. You might need to use a slightly different variation of this proposal depending on how big your tournament is. According to SmashBoards rankings categories there are a total of 8 different types of tournaments: Unranked, Pools, Teams, Online, Local, Regional, National, and International. Each of them will require slightly different rules in order to get the best possible time and accuracy for each match-up.
3 Stock will only get implemented into the meta game if tournaments (mostly major TO) start using 3 stock instead of 2. I recommend you consult with your local tournaments to see if they are willing to use 3 stock. I understand some of you have already done that, but if we all can do this the meta game will change in our favor.
Let's Talk: 2 VS 3 Stock Debate - ZeRo
by ZeRo.
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twPZVXKeDOk.
Two Stocks VS Three Stocks - Smash 4
by Omni.
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubHMpz4CMAA.
Let's Talk: 2 Stock vs 3 Stock
by imESAM.
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_hYwuqrk6k.
2 Socks Vs. 3 Stocks! Ft. LoF Keitaro
by LeapofFaithNAKAT.
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnU5lvXQmCY.
Project SMASH Roundtable - 2 Stock vs 3 Stock
by Tourney Locator.
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wF_7FSk4DLo.
by ZeRo.
Two Stocks VS Three Stocks - Smash 4
by Omni.
Let's Talk: 2 Stock vs 3 Stock
by imESAM.
2 Socks Vs. 3 Stocks! Ft. LoF Keitaro
by LeapofFaithNAKAT.
Project SMASH Roundtable - 2 Stock vs 3 Stock
by Tourney Locator.
There is one more thing I would like to show on the topic of stock. Although this is very unlikely you can still win a 3 stock, best 2 out of 3 match even if you loose more stock than your opponent. The outcome can be even more drastic with 4 or 5 stock or best of 4 out of 7. For example:
Players A I B
Match 1 -3 I -0/-1
Match 2 -2 I -3
Match 3 -2 I -3
Total -7 I -6/-7
This can easily be the outcome if player B had 1 or 2 slip-ups (accidental deaths) even though player B could very well be the better player. It's kind of cool to think an underdog can still win against a pro even if they loose the first match and loose more stock over all. Just goes to show you shouldn't give up and can still win even if at first it seems the odds aren't in your favor.Match 1 -3 I -0/-1
Match 2 -2 I -3
Match 3 -2 I -3
Total -7 I -6/-7
Here are some more threads on the subject of Smash 4s competitive rule-set and stock specifically:
- Competitive Smash Ruleset Discussion.
- Smash 4 Ruleset Poll Discussion.
- Is there any data proving 2 stock is actually faster than 3 stock?.
- 2 stock or 3 for Smash WiiU tournaments?.
What do you think? Should we use 2 stock or 3 stock? and how much time for each?
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