What is the point of feminism?

[Vexor1011]

How often to we hear about feminism? And how often is what we hear positive? How can feminism stay so strong with how many people disagree?

 

[Nona]

Feminism supports a lot more than women. It's about social equality, removing traditional gender roles, and acceptance of everyone regardless of what body you're born in-- little things like accepting the fact females have body hair and can choose whether or not to shave it, or larger scale problems, like accepting that men are also **** victims and should not feel shame for being so (a good percentage of men do not report their **** because of embarrassment, etc).

The stigma is because of extremists ("tumblr feminism", or "RadFems") that say things like "smash the patriarchy #KillAllMen" and "waaah you're oppressing me because you're sitting in a bus seat with your legs apart and I'm too socially awkward to ask you to move so I'll post a picture and complain on social media", which spread like wildfire. They're incredibly vocal, and those are the types that make the biggest (albeit wrong) impressions.

edit: just making sure it doesn't look like I dodged the censor

 

[M15t3R E]

This is an unpopular opinion by all feminists, I'm sure, but the goals of feminism have already been accomplished. Susan B. Anthony and the like accomplished the woman's suffrage and organizing more female roles in the workplace, which by the way, began largely unopposed during WW1 as many men in the workforce were drafted and positions needed to be filled. Many studies have concluded that women do not get paid less for the same job as a man does overall despite this being a pushbutton talking point for feminists. Looking at the military, preparations are in place for women to be sent to the front lines that request it. Women are also joining the submarine force in greater numbers as officers and soon as enlisted women for the first time next year and soon as Navy Seals as well.
I don't see what feminists are trying to accomplish these days. I wouldn't be surprised if most of them just plain hate men and are deluded by their fellow feminists into thinking such gender discrimination still runs rampant. What modern feminists are too intellectually dishonest to admit are the benefit females have in society; while it may be true that some male employers hire men for the job, others hire women because they want to see them strut around the workplace on a daily basis. It's also MUCH more socially acceptable for a married woman to decide she doesn't wish to work while the husband does. Similarly, women can expect to be catered to especially while in the dating phase. Women also nearly always maintain custody of children, are not suspected as often for crimes and/or get off more easily, and women can wear men's clothes but not so much vice-versa. Just kidding about that last one... sort of.
Feminism of the 1900's was beautiful. Loudmouth modern feminists of today are obnoxious.
But there's my rant for the day.

 

[MonadoEmbassy]

Feminism really bothers me in the sense that... Well, I don't know how to explain. I guess it's that I've grown up in a world where there are already advancements in society, is how I'll put it. Even so, people still go crazy when a girl says something or does something.

 

[MonadoEmbassy]

I guess it doesn't help that the maturity of the people around me is at an all time low. A girl says she wants to be a police officer and everybody cheers her on, and when I say nothing, I get called sexist that hates feminism. I don't know. I really shouldn't get into politics.

 

[Albie83]

CannotGrasp speaks the truth. Which makes me wonder why (s)he has that name, lol.

Regular feminists are fighting for equality among genders, even when it comes to simple things like making toys non-gender specific and let little girls play with toy cars and little boys play with dolls if they would like. They also fight for equal pay in the workplace as well as treatment of women at their jobs or school.

Unfortunately, the name feminists get bundled with those that are more militant in nature. Those people complain about the lack of tampon commercials seen during football season and other preposterous stuff that doesn't matter.

 

[FlusteredBat]

Feminism: A bunch of pretentious lying socialists projecting female privilege onto men while framing their own sexual insecurity as some sort of oppressive systemic injustice.

A radical feminist is more overtly hysterical.

Did you know a man's capacity for higher reasoning shuts down in the presence of a pretty woman? Our brains literally short-circuit.

 

[gmBottles]

Feminism supports a lot more than women. It's about social equality, removing traditional gender roles, and acceptance of everyone regardless of what body you're born in-- little things like accepting the fact females have body hair and can choose whether or not to shave it, or larger scale problems, like accepting that men are also **** victims and should not feel shame for being so (a good percentage of men do not report their **** because of embarrassment, etc).

The stigma is because of extremists ("tumblr feminism", or "RadFems") that say things like "smash the patriarchy #KillAllMen" and "waaah you're oppressing me because you're sitting in a bus seat with your legs apart and I'm too socially awkward to ask you to move so I'll post a picture and complain on social media", which spread like wildfire. They're incredibly vocal, and those are the types that make the biggest (albeit wrong) impressions.

edit: just making sure it doesn't look like I dodged the censor

See "egalitarianism"

 

[Vexor1011]

Feminism wants equality which it mostly has by now. Women have pretty much all if not more of what men do. More realistically, instead of reaching for equality, we should reach for "humanity" in our culture which truly, is mainly absent.

 

[FlusteredBat]

Feminism has exacerbated a great rift between the genders in their ignorant push for total equality. I doubt they will ever apologize for the destruction wrought upon the nuclear family through their rampant sexism. Children are the victims here and the future will suffer for it.

Infantilize women, demonize men.

Teach girls to feel universally entitled and free from autonomy for having a vagina.

Teach boys to feel eternally guilty and ashamed for having a penis.

...

 

[gmBottles]

Youtuber TL;DR does a lot of videos about feminism and he speaks about it much better than I ever could, so I recommend checking him out.
Feminism is a good thing. Well, it was. Modern feminism is destructive and sexist, but it wasn't always this way. Most "feminists" who claim that feminism is about equality for all, including the LGBT community, are actually egalitarians, they just don't know it. Feminism at this point has become about women having special rights over men, even though they are in fact equal. Just in different ways. Again, I recommend checking out TL;DR's videos on feminism, as he goes over several points, and he's extremely well spoken and fantastic at getting his point across.

 

[the.tok]

This is an unpopular opinion by all feminists, I'm sure, but the goals of feminism have already been accomplished.
I don't see what feminists are trying to accomplish these days.

Feminism: A bunch of pretentious lying socialists projecting female privilege onto men while framing their own sexual insecurity as some sort of oppressive systemic injustice.

Feminism wants equality which it mostly has by now.

Wow guys, in what reality are you living? These posts are seriously narrow-minded.

Have you ever heard of countries like Saudi Arabia, India, Iran, Afghanistan, Somalia... ?
You know what it is to be a woman there?

In most countries, being a woman is not an advantage. Denying that, you are fooling yourself.
Feminism is necessary in helping those societies evolve.

 

[gmBottles]

Wow guys, in what reality are you living? These posts are seriously narrow-minded.

Have you ever heard of countries like Saudi Arabia, India, Iran, Afghanistan, Somalia... ?
You know what it is to be a woman there?

In most countries, being a woman is not an advantage. Denying that, you are fooling yourself.
Feminism is necessary in helping those societies evolve.

Unless you are going to these countries to make a change, modern feminism does nothing for these countries.

 

[the.tok]

Unless you are going to these countries to make a change, modern feminism does nothing for these countries.

Yes it does. You think feminism doesn't exist there? There are women fighting (and being punished for that) in every and each of these countries.

 

[gmBottles]

Yes it does. You think feminism doesn't exist there? There are women fighting (and being punished for that) in every and each of these countries.

The feminists there have an impact, sure. But our modern feminism does nothing to help them, most modern feminists are too worried about their own emotions.

 

[Jiggly]

I see feminism as a push for world gender equality. It is an act to try to have equal oppurtunity in social, legal, and financial fields. If you think this is acheived, even in our country, you're pretty off. Of course women have benefits men don't, and honestly I see feminism as an act to change gender equality, not just female equality. In order to have full equality, all sides must be effected. It's the necessity of compromise basically.

 

[FlusteredBat]

Wow guys, in what reality are you living? These posts are seriously narrow-minded.

Have you ever heard of countries like Saudi Arabia, India, Iran, Afghanistan, Somalia... ?
You know what it is to be a woman there?

In most countries, being a woman is not an advantage. Denying that, you are fooling yourself.
Feminism is necessary in helping those societies evolve.

Abusive cultures do not constitute a gendered issue, Tok. The notion of parallel male suffering is either ignored, ridiculed or even celebrated in your obnoxious feminist echo-chambers.

 

[the.tok]

The feminists there have an impact, sure. But our modern feminism does nothing to help them, most modern feminists are too worried about their own emotions.

You are giving me a "No true Scotsman" fallacy here. what do you mean by "our" exactly? In what way Indian women fighting for their rights do not qualify as feminists?

Abusive cultures do not constitute a gendered issue, Tok. The notion of parallel male suffering is either ignored, ridiculed or even celebrated in your obnoxious feminist echo-chambers.

I do not fully understand what you mean here. Generally speaking, feminism is necessary because in a good proportion - if not the majority - of cultures, the woman condition is pretty bad. Under-education is especially a problem. Access to birth-control too.
There are a lot of problem that affect both gender equally, but that is not to be denied. Just like you cannot deny that some issues are gender specific too.

And what do you mean by "your obnoxious feminist echo-chambers"? I'm sorry, but if you think that everyone in the world fighting for women right is irrelevant, I disagree. That doesn't make me obnoxious.

 

[gmBottles]

You are giving me a "No true Scotsman" fallacy here. what do you mean by "our" exactly? In what way Indian women fighting for their rights do not qualify as feminists?



I do not fully understand what you mean here. Generally speaking, feminism is necessary because in a good proportion - if not the majority - of cultures, the woman condition is pretty bad. Under-education is especially a problem. Access to birth-control too.
There are a lot of problem that affect both gender equally, but that is not to be denied. Just like you cannot deny that some issues are gender specific too.

And what do you mean by "your obnoxious feminist echo-chambers"? I'm sorry, but if you think that everyone in the world fighting for women right is irrelevant, I disagree. That doesn't make me obnoxious.

Sorry, I should have been more clear. By "our" I mean Americans. American feminism focuses more on women's "inequality" in the US such as pink tax, which doesn't exist, the wage gap, which doesn't exist, or things that don't even matter like "manspreading". Feminists in these 3rd world countries absolutely matter! But they are actually doing something to help, rather than just complain about these issues then return to tumblr to reblog more kitten pictures.

 

[the.tok]

Sorry, I should have been more clear. By "our" I mean Americans. American feminism focuses more on women's "inequality" in the US such as pink tax, which doesn't exist, the wage gap, which doesn't exist, or things that don't even matter like "manspreading". Feminists in these 3rd world countries absolutely matter! But they are actually doing something to help, rather than just complain about these issues then return to tumblr to reblog more kitten pictures.

Ok, then there's been some misunderstanding.

Since the thread topic was about the point of feminism in general, I thought you were criticizing feminism in general, hence my reaction to your post. I do think that it is an important topic to promote equality between men and women around the world.

I don't know much about american feminism, so I can't say much about it. I had never heard about manspreading (had to google it), seems like an Anglo-Saxon phenomenon tbh. I agree that this is not that important compared to other issues.

But I guess to answer the original question the point of feminism is not about manspreading, more about helping men and women getting equal rights, and fighting sexism in general, which is still relevant today IMO.

 

[gmBottles]

Ok, then there's been some misunderstanding.

Since the thread topic was about the point of feminism in general, I thought you were criticizing feminism in general, hence my reaction to your post. I do think that it is an important topic to promote equality between men and women around the world.

I don't know much about american feminism, so I can't say much about it. I had never heard about manspreading (had to google it), seems like an Anglo-Saxon phenomenon tbh. I agree that this is not that important compared to other issues.

But I guess to answer the original question the point of feminism is not about manspreading, more about helping men and women getting equal rights, and fighting sexism in general, which is still relevant today IMO.

Ah, I did not notice you were not from the US. Feminism must be different over in Belgium, haha.
It has pretty much become a joke at this point here in the US. Lots of YouTubers cover it, my favorite being TL;DR, which I recommend if you want to know more about feminism in the US.

Glad the misunderstanding is cleared up though!

 

[Vexor1011]

Ok, then there's been some misunderstanding.

Since the thread topic was about the point of feminism in general, I thought you were criticizing feminism in general, hence my reaction to your post. I do think that it is an important topic to promote equality between men and women around the world.

I don't know much about american feminism, so I can't say much about it. I had never heard about manspreading (had to google it), seems like an Anglo-Saxon phenomenon tbh. I agree that this is not that important compared to other issues.

But I guess to answer the original question the point of feminism is not about manspreading, more about helping men and women getting equal rights, and fighting sexism in general, which is still relevant today IMO.

Not particularly in general, but it would be smart to specify what you mean from here on out.
Keep in mind the reason that these things exist is mainly because of religion. It's a lifestyle that's forced, and can't really be changed.

 

[the.tok]

Not particularly in general, but it would be smart to specify what you mean from here on out.
Keep in mind the reason that these things exist is mainly because of religion. It's a lifestyle that's forced, and can't really be changed.

I meant that to me, the point of feminism as a whole is to fight for equality, and that the main points are access to education, birth control, and I may add unpunished violence.
Religion or tradition though it is correlated to some point. You are right that this is forced, but I think it can be changed, and it will. Even in the most advanced countries, women rights are quite recent achievements.

 

[FlusteredBat]

The entire world is gynocentric, though it manifests in different ways. Tribes only survived because they prioritized the safety of women over men.

Feminists/socialists blindly assume that perceived injustices are driven by some sort of identity flag. Their goal is to remove personal responsibility from labelled 'victim' classes in order to promote preferential legislation against the labelled 'oppressor' classes. These classifications never change--it doesn't matter what society implements in response. Like religion, institutionalized gynocentrism (feminism) is designed to persist ad infinitum for the benefit of an elite inner circle at the expense of everybody else.

...

^ Consider this a metaphor for gender relations.

 

[Vexor1011]

I meant that to me, the point of feminism as a whole is to fight for equality, and that the main points are access to education, birth control, and I may add unpunished violence.
Religion or tradition though it is correlated to some point. You are right that this is forced, but I think it can be changed, and it will. Even in the most advanced countries, women rights are quite recent achievements.

In the states there are female oppressors, which is very common actually. Do you think this should be punished heavily as well?

 

[FlusteredBat]

In the states there are female oppressors, which is very common actually. Do you think this should be punished heavily as well?

Funnily enough, gender segregation is generally enjoyed in places like Saudi Arabia because more often than not it means women get to be treated like royalty by men slaving away to serve their every whim. Of course feminists would just say it's "internalized misogyny" or something.

 

[the.tok]

In the states there are female oppressors, which is very common actually. Do you think this should be punished heavily as well?

Of course, I wouldn't see a reason why not? It's illegal right?

But I think you are missing the point : you are criticizing a whole very important movement, just because in a very little part of the world, some people that affiliate to this movement are doing things over the top. That is not really significant if you look at the broad picture, they do much more good than harm. Do not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Funnily enough, gender segregation is generally enjoyed in places like Saudi Arabia because more often than not it means women get to be treated like royalty by men slaving away to serve their every whim. Of course feminists would just say it's "internalized misogyny" or something.

You must be kidding there. How often have you been to Saudi Arabia? Or any country with a strong unbalance between genders?

If you think that the world is gynocentric, then I am sorry, but I can do nothing for you if you are that blind, seriously.

Sidenote : I don't know why you use socialism and feminism as if it was the same thing. I have the feeling that you know very little about both socialism and feminism.

 

[Vexor1011]

I personally dislike feminism, but what you're saying does make sense. Would you be willing to go into more detail, and give examples, Tok?

 

[the.tok]

Off the top of my head

Malala Yousafzai would be a good example
Hoda Charaoui or Simone Veil come to mind too if you want front names
The recent **** walk in India
The women striking again the mandatory veil in Iran
The strike in Turkey last year
The protests against Shinzo Abe labeling women as "baby factories"
The struggle against genital mutilations and honor killings

Or stories like this one:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...n-higher-caste-reveals-terrifying-ordeal.html
I think it is worth fighting for.

 

[gmBottles]

Off the top of my head

Malala Yousafzai would be a good example
Hoda Charaoui or Simone Veil come to mind too if you want front names
The recent **** walk in India
The women striking again the mandatory veil in Iran
The strike in Turkey last year
The protests against Shinzo Abe labeling women as "baby factories"
The struggle against genital mutilations and honor killings

Or stories like this one:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...n-higher-caste-reveals-terrifying-ordeal.html
I think it is worth fighting for.

All of these things showcase perfectly how feminism can be a good thing. However, in more modern, 1st world countries, they don't generally do anything for causes as worthy as these. I see more what you mean now, in my earlier posts I was primarily criticizing modern, 1st world feminism, rather than the entire movement itself.

 

[BustinKappas]

There are 2 types of Feminists:

"I want to be treated as an equal but I also want special treatment."

or

The ones that aren't idiots.

 

[FlusteredBat]

Whether or not somebody believes Feminism is "still necessary" in an international sense has no bearing on why it characteristically lingers after being accepted into mainstream discourse.

Is there still an abolitionist movement?

 

[the.tok]

Whether or not somebody believes Feminism is "still necessary" in an international sense has no bearing on why it characteristically lingers after being accepted into mainstream discourse.

Is there still an abolitionist movement?

In Mauritania, there is

 

[M15t3R E]

In Mauritania, there is

I'd like to mention that I am a rather cultured man and I've never even heard of Mauritania. I know not of any feminist movements in oppressive societies such as Saudi Arabia and don't stay up at night thinking about it. I do feel genuinely disgusted about how some societies hold their women down, deliberately keeping their hidden potential from being realized. There's little to nothing that modern feminists in the western world can do for these women of 'traditional' cultures. Some women dredged in the status quo of these societies see their roles as appropriate. The women who envision a more equal society may be inspired by modern feminists of the west; they are on their own, though, for taking the necessary action to produce change. I do not feel modern feminism in the western culture is a progressive force for good in this day and age. I see it as a vestigial function that's still needlessly kicking.

 

[FlusteredBat]

I'd like to mention that I am a rather cultured man and I've never even heard of Mauritania. I know not of any feminist movements in oppressive societies such as Saudi Arabia and don't stay up at night thinking about it. I do feel genuinely disgusted about how some societies hold their women down, deliberately keeping their hidden potential from being realized. There's little to nothing that modern feminists in the western world can do for these women of 'traditional' cultures. Some women dredged in the status quo of these societies see their roles as appropriate. The women who envision a more equal society may be inspired by modern feminists of the west; they are on their own, though, for taking the necessary action to produce change. I do not feel modern feminism in the western culture is a progressive force for good in this day and age. I see it as a vestigial function that's still needlessly kicking.

Reminder: Abusive cultures are tough on both genders.

the.tok You know full well that I was referring to enlightened first world nations. Why grasp at straws?

 

[Kurri ★]

Feminism wants equality which it mostly has by now. Women have pretty much all if not more of what men do. More realistically, instead of reaching for equality, we should reach for "humanity" in our culture which truly, is mainly absent.

Absolutely true! I swear women actually get it better than men. I mean, who wouldn't want to be payed less than their peers despite doing the same amount, if not more work? Who wouldn't want to be objectified solely as a sex object? And I sure wish I could get **** threats day-in and day-out. Hell women on average get ***** way more than men, so that's a privilege too right?

Do people honestly believe that women are treated better than men in our society? And yes, I am referring to the US and other western civilizations.

Lemme guess racism isn't a thing either?

Is there still an abolitionist movement?

No, because slavery isn't a thing anymore, but that doesn't mean racism isn't.

 

[M15t3R E]

Absolutely true! I swear women actually get it better than men. I mean, who wouldn't want to be payed less than their peers despite doing the same amount, if not more work? Who wouldn't want to be objectified solely as a sex object? And I sure wish I could get **** threats day-in and day-out. Hell women on average get ***** way more than men, so that's a privilege too right?

Do people honestly believe that women are treated better than men in our society? And yes, I am referring to the US and other western civilizations.

Lemme guess racism isn't a thing either?


No, because slavery isn't a thing anymore, but that doesn't mean racism isn't.

So why isn't there "masculinism" too? It's high time that courts stop favoring mothers in divorce cases by default and stop letting women get off the hook more easily for criminal offenses.

 

[gmBottles]

Absolutely true! I swear women actually get it better than men. I mean, who wouldn't want to be payed less than their peers despite doing the same amount, if not more work?

Lol

The wage gap is a complete myth, look it up. Women on average make less than men on average because men, on average, work more than women do. You have to take into account that women make less than men do on average because of several different factors, such as women taking time off of work for maternity leave, women simply not working as many hours as men, etc. It isn't the average women making less than the average man, it is ALL women together, make less than ALL men together.

Do some research. It has been debunked sooo many times.

 

[KOOL_DOOD_CHARLIE]

I have no problem with real feminism (not radical feminism) and I hate to be "that guy" but why is it called feminism if it claims to fight for equal rights for both genders, why not call it Equalism?

 

[gmBottles]

I have no problem with real feminism (not radical feminism) and I hate to be "that guy" but why is it called feminism if it claims to fight for equal rights for both genders, why not call it Equalism?

Feminism is for women's rights. What you are looking for, and what most "feminists" really are, is egalitarianism.