Weapon-swapping characters : The debate

[Deleted member]

So, I've seen here and there some people suggesting characters (both newcomers and veterans) having a weapon-swapping option, namely being able to change the character's main weapon and some of his/her normal and special moves.

Some examples for veterans :

• Samus, swapping between fire moves and ice moves, as seen in Project M.

• Ganondorf, swapping between his traditionnal moveset and his new sword/trident moveset.

• Ike, swapping between Ragnell and an axe moveset.

• Pit, swapping between Palutena's Bow and the First Blade.


And for potential newcomers :

• Chrom, swapping between Falchion and a lance moveset.

• Robin, swapping between tome moveset and sword moveset.

• Palutena, swapping between her staff and another Uprising weapon, like as seen in the Revolting Dinner OAV.



Now the questions are : should this feature be executable during battles (by down-B or by taunts as often suggested), or only being chosen before ?



My opinion is it could be a good idea, but at the same time it would also breaks-off game's balance, both during (especially by taunts) and before battles.

For a simple reason : What about characters like WFT, Rosalina, Pokémon characters and many others who aren't seen with any weapon ?



What for you now ?

 

[Morbi]

No, I don't like the idea. The premise is satisfactory; however, I would prefer Sakurai focuses on developing unique move-sets for everyone. I don't want him focusing on making two move-sets for certain characters. It is fine with characters like Samus (as it doesn't really change the animation significantly), or transformation characters.

It just isn't something I am interested in. The concept should be reserved for when it is warranted and/or makes sense.

 

[Opossum]

The concept of a weapon-switching stance fighter is definitely a good idea. In my opinion, it shouldn't as much focus on "two separate movesets," but for the most part one moveset with different properties depending on the switch.

My go-to example for this is Chrom. I explain the idea further here.

Spoiler

Idea: Chrom gets in with a stance-change mechanic that lets him switch between using the Falchion and the Spear depending on the situation, to make him more diverse.

Essentially, in Falchion mode, he's stronger, heavier and focuses on staying alive (with an added healing mechanic). Spear mode allows him to be faster and have more reach and a projectile at the expense of weight and power. His specials take on new properties, as well. The others are pretty much stat changes with different aesthetics, though, for time purposes.

The Down Special would allow Chrom to change his weapon, his playstyle referencing the gameplay in Fire Emblem in the fact that he uses the right weapon to strategically fit the situation.

While the Side and Up Specials, are vary depending on the weapon, Chrom's Neutral Special stays the same. It's the Shield of Seals, which then ignites in holy fire. Chrom holds the shield in front of him and rushes forward. Unlike other "charge forward" moves, this move takes the foe WITH Chrom. He doesn't stop unless the player jumps or hits a ledge. This move does flame damage and upward knockback, as to be avoidable. If held for too long, Chrom takes some minor burn damage. As a callback to Awakening, Chrom's Shield of Seals Neutral Special would be called "Rightful King."

Chrom's side special and up special are the two halves of Aether divided: Luna and Sol, respectively. In Falchion mode, Luna is similar in appearance to Ike's Quick Draw, but has the effect of Marth's Shield Breaker. He rushes forward and causes light damage, but ignores the effect of shields. This move causes NO KNOCKBACK, however, and has some ending lag. In Spear mode, Luna is instead a a projectile attack in which Chrom lobs his spear in an arc at the opponent. The arc can be controlled, and he tosses it like a javelin.

Chrom's Up Special is Sol. During Falchion mode, Chrom uses his Exalted weapon to swing himself upward. If it hits a foe, you'll even recover a bit of health, similar to Ness and Lucas' down special. During Sol in Spear mode, Chrom leaps upward (higher than Falchion mode) and descends in a diagonal fashion. While easier to use and hit with, Chrom cannot heal in Spear mode, so pick wisely.

For fun, Chrom's Final Smash is Dual Strike+. In this, he calls in the (cloaked) Avatar and Lucina, who help Chrom beat down the opposition.

Generally, Chrom's playstyle would involve switching his weapon to fit the situation: Falchion for power and durability, or Spear for reach and speed, separating him from Marth and Ike. Chrom's positives and negatives both stem from his adaptability. He NEEDS to use the right thing at the right time, or he'll suffer. Anyway, that's just how I see Chrom working in Smash. I feel he'd make a great Stance guy, a classic fighting game archetype that Smash Bros. currently lacks.

With the exception of the Side and Up Specials, Chrom's moves would look aesthetically different (due to it being a different weapon), but it's only their properties that are changed effectually. So he pretty much only has two moves more than most other characters.

That being said, a stance fighter would be really nice to see, as opposed to another transformation character, and I think Chrom fits the bill.

 

[SuperMii3D]

Mario with his Hammer.
B/Neutral Special (This is for both btw) Fireball
Side B/Side Special (" ") Reflect with (Non-hammer) Cape/ (Hammer) The Hammer itself.
Up B/Upward Special- No changes
Down B/Downward Special- Spin Attack
The difference for Hammer Mario vs Hammer Mario, would probably be all of the regular attacks/aerial attacks, and maybe the speed and strength.

 

[Deleted member]

No, I don't like the idea. The premise is satisfactory; however, I would prefer Sakurai focuses on developing unique move-sets for everyone. I don't want him focusing on making two move-sets for certain characters. It is fine with characters like Samus (as it doesn't really change the animation significantly), or transformation characters.

It just isn't something I am interested in. The concept should be reserved for when it is warranted and/or makes sense.

This.

It could be something pretty cool for characters like Samus in Project M when it changes the effect of some attacks, but it must not to be too overdeveloped for other characters giving them other gameplay possibilities that aren't transformations via down-B.

 

[Megadoomer]

Personally, I'd like to see something similar to Tales of Symphonia. In that game, spells could be used by pressing the B button while holding the control stick in certain directions, much like special moves in Smash Bros. Basic attacks, which were performed by pressing the A button while holding a direction with the control stick, could not be changed.

Even if players just had the choice between two attacks in each of the four B move slots (for example, you could pick between FLUDD and Mario Tornado for Mario's down-B attack and leave his other B moves unchanged), it would really help to fix complaints that people have about characters' movesets (ex. Ganondorf being a Captain Falcon clone, Sonic having two near-identical special moves) while still leaving the option open to keep the moves the same if people have grown used to playing as the character in previous Smash Bros. games.

When selecting the character, you could have the option to choose between Moveset A (the traditional B attacks), Moveset B (the new B attacks), or Moveset C (custom - whatever's been set up beforehand, which allows players to pick and choose the B moves that they prefer). It will probably never happen, since it would make versus matches and online play too complicated, but it's something that I'd like to see.

 

[Critzilean]

I like the idea, but some limits would need to be in place. IMO the switch would need to be done through a taunt, not waste the character's down special. Additionally, the character's moveset would not change unless it is limited to properties of moves (like Samus beams in project M) or maybe change their specials, everything else would be basically the same, moveset changes are reserved for characters like PT and Sheik/Zelda.

 

[Knight Dude]

I don't think the concept needs to be slapped on to any and every character that has ever used a weapon, or multiple weapons. Especially not with Ike, Pit or even Ganon. See with Ike and Pit, they already have original movesets. So no need there. With Ganondorf, just give him some original moves, mostly dark magic and keep his original Brawl attacks.

This concept is interesting to say the least. But it should be done with a character known for using multiple weapons. One that isn't playable yet. I heard Chrom and use Lances along with his Sword, so perhaps that can be implemented with him.