1. Zen does crazy stuff as scum too. His play here resembles his scumplay in the newbie, except he changed it up slightly. Orbo was there too and even he called out Zen's bull**** there (and I read Orbo as town) yet here he is just excusing Zen's play. He even states he likes Zen's case but still doesn't vote me. (You don't either, so I don't get what's up with your priorities) You also are giving Zen way too many excuses by saying "Zen does so many crazy things so I don't care about him" yet you care enough not to vote him, so you do care. I don't remember what your thought was on his 2 names thing, but what did you think about it, and him holding all his reads until recently?
2. I keep finding you stepping aside and asking Zen to clarify things. For example, the flavor thing, and anything that comes off as odd you have him clarify. I don't feel like this is accusatory from you, but rather as scum coaching a buddy. If Zen flips scum, I will dig these up and show them.
3. It's disgusting that you would fault Yolo for joining the small even if there are lower leveled players. So what. He's allowed to play. You don't really mention that Zen also said he joined mostly because he felt he'd get MVP. You also don't complain whenever there are more power players in a game. You actually never mentioned Yolo and didn't call him out when he said you were disgusting, but now when he is opposing Zen you are saying that it's dumb that he joined to ruin Zen's plans.
4. It's also odd that anytime something suspicious like Zen voting Yolo after not having a problem with him, or Orbo voting KB for no apparent reason at first and Vinyl as a placer vote, you consider it ok and not suspicious. Even Vinyl has called you out on that. You are really giving Zen and Orbo the benefit of the doubt and you instantly agreed to his Flavor argument without thinking, and then many posts later you realize "Oh zen, he did get confused about the flavor so he couldn't have thought about that". If you were really analyzing what Zen said you might have caught on to that quicker.
Now tell me. How has your read on Joey progressed? I'm still seeing ScumJoey. What do you think of Joey skipping over the fact Zen flip-flopped his vote on me?
Tell me what you think of Zen.
So why haven't you voted me?
I ask Zen about things because those things are specifically for Zen. Like, if I asked them to another player, they'd probably look at me in a funny way and be like "I wasn't the one that was thinking like this, it was Zen."
Honestly, I stopped reading point 1 (although I did continue after realizing how dumb this whole statement is) at "Zen does crazy stuff as scum, too", because right there, it would be considered a null tell, which is what I'm trying to say. It doesn't make him town that he does this, but reading him as scum for this is pretty idiotic as well. I care enough not to vote him? What on earth are you talking about? You do know you're running yourself into a wall here, right? Me caring enough not to vote him doesn't even make sense, unless you somehow came to the conclusion that me saying "I don't care for him" means that I wouldn't mind lynching him, because that is not true in the slightest and I would rather watch a scum read go.
Of course I agree with his case, but although I do agree with his case, I do NOT agree with his weird voting after that case, and honestly I want to see him re-focus before I vote on you or anything along those lines. It was obvious that he was having a random zen moment with his votes, and although I don't like that he did that, I don't really feel that I could push him for it because he's Zen and he'd do it as either alignment.
I didn't mention anything about YOLO when he voted me because I still thought he was in RVS. We're almost 10 pages into the game and he was still playing like it's RVS. He was not putting any effort into the game whatsoever, and from a bad player's perspective, it really looked like he joined just to rule the town like a moron. I'm not discussing this point on YOLO anymore, as it's null to the game. Bring it up and I will ignore you on it. I can discuss it post-game, though. Plus KevinM's post was really cool, so I feel like it was really wrong of me to make this accusation, so -shrug-. Either way, it has nothing to do with the actual game, and I definitely don't scum read him for it. It was more me being flustered with the way he was playing and how it looked from my perspective. Push me on this and I will ignore it. Ask Post game. Yeah.
I don't say anything about there being more power players in a game because it makes sense for power players to play with power players. Common sense much?
If you say that Zen doesn't play this game in a weird way, you're lying. Straight up. He does weird things with either alignment because that's what he does. Look at his explanation of his two-pick thing. That's weird, but it's 100000% null in every way. Look at how he responds to people in other games. He plays this way as both alignments. Prove me wrong, and I may change my vote. You have done nothing to prove me wrong. All you've done is said "He plays this way as scum as well!", which only strengthens my thoughts on this.
I consider that okay because I don't find it suspicious. You don't understand that everyone doesn't think like you, Ranmaru. I'm sorry if you don't accept my "I don't find him voting Vinyl to be suspicious" thoughts, but that's how I feel and you're going to have to give me more than that for me to even start considering Orbo scum.
I stated that Zen voting Yolo was weird, but Zen does this thing as town (And scum), so assuming that he's one alignment or the other doesn't make sense to me. I'm not going to vote him for this, because it's zen play. Not scum play, not town play, zen play.
I have no idea what you're talking about with the "If you would have really analyzed what Zen said". The thing with KBG talking about flavor was something none of us outside of Zen thought about until after Zen said it, and after Zen said it, it was like connecting the dots. Literally everything made sense if he was talking about flavor instead of roles, so it had to be more than likely true. Like, it's common sense to at least two of us (Orbo and myself).
If you think it's odd that we don't find the same things to be suspicious, then I'm sorry? I don't see how him voting Vinyl or Zen acting the way he did is suspicious (especially after Zen explained himself). Doesn't make me scum just because I don't agree with you though~.
Zen's play is zen play. Seriously. Like, I'm not surprised at all that he played the way that he did with his reads or his plan. He sees his plan through, then he plays the game. It's how it has worked with every game I've played with Zen. Nothing out of the norm. Null. 100% null.
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Moving on from Ranmaru stuff.
Has Orbo played with Vinyl?
I have once, and when I did, he literally did nothing until he died. Like, it was absolutely pitiful. I'm not sure if this still stands or anything, though. I guess he maaaay have changed?
Either way, having a vote on Vinyl doesn't seem really bad to me at all, especially as we get closer to deadline. Like I said, him or Vocal are the ones I'd want to go if it were to come down to inactive crap.
His vote on Vinyl while he sorts things out doesn't seem scummy to me. He still has his vote pressure going while still arguing with Ranmaru and questioning things.
PJB is right about the fact that Orbo connecting PJB to Vinyl is weird, though. Not enough for me to scum read him, though.
Zen getting back into the game makes me feel way better about him, which is what I expected from the way he played. I can definitely say that Zen is a town read for me. I can understand his reasoning for both getting on and off from YOLO, regardless of how weird it looked while it was actually happening.
Liking YOLO. Now that he's actually going in depth, I can definitely say that he's thinking things through, and I like his mind process on Zen both before and after the unvote.
I have more to say, but bbl college stuff.
