Visual Details in Robin's Moves

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Because I'm bored.

Firsties:

I did some research on the weapons used by Robin. All of them are actually recurring in the series, so even people who haven't played Awakening but have played other games in the series might recognize some of his spells and weapons:

Tomes:
Thunder - All Fire Emblem games
Elthunder - Genealogy of the Holy War, Path of Radiance, Radiant Dawn, Awakening
Arcthunder - Radiant Dawn, Awakening
Thoron - Shadow Dragon (original), Mystery of the Emblem, Genealogy of the Holy War, Thracia 776, Path of Radiance, Radiant Dawn, Shadow Dragon (remake), New Mystery, Awakening
Arcfire - Radiant Dawn, Awakening
Elwind - Genealogy of the Holy War, Path of Radiance, Radiant Dawn, Awakening
Nosferatu - All Fire Emblem games except Shadow Dragon, both original and remake.
Appears as Dark magic in Gaiden, Binding Blade, Blazing Sword, Sacred Stones, and Awakening. Appears as Light magic in Mystery of the Emblem, Genealogy of the Holy War, Thracia 776, Path of Radiance, Radiant Dawn, and New Mystery.

Swords:
Bronze Sword - Radiant Dawn, Awakening
Levin Sword - Shadow Dragon (original), Gaiden, Mystery of the Emblem, Genealogy of the Holy War, Thracia 776, Shadow Dragon (remake), New Mystery, Awakening

Anyway. here we go:

Spoiler: Arcfire (Side B)

- Seems to be based on the spell-casting animation from the Mage Class in Fire Emblem's GBA-titles, aesthetic-wise.

Cover:

Spoiler: Excalibur (Jab Combo)

- Excalibur's "wind cuts" are used as a basis for Robin's jab.

Spoiler: Elwind (Up B)

- The re-occurring large "wave" from FE's wind magic is used as a basis for Elwind-move (Up B): interestingly having Robin fire two of them like the artwork for the tome suggests.

Spoiler: Idle Stance

Robin's idle stance is based on the one from Awakening.

The difference now being that Robin has his hands full with a tome and sword. (Also switched the tome's position in hand)

What is also noticeable is how the Robin has the book open most of the time, presumably for shorten his time spellcasting in a fighting turf like Smash Bros. This is took from the aspect of tomes being open when casting a spell.

Spoiler: Tome Symbols (W.I.P)

All Robin's tomes are based on Awakening, design-wise.


Thunder

Elthunder

Arcthunder



Thoron

Arcfire



Elwind




Nosferatu

I hope there's more to be found as we discover more about Robin. Really digging these throwbacks, the team really goes far and wide to represent FE more truly than before.

 

[Skyblade12]

You forgot to mention Arcfire acts like it does in the GBA games as well, forming up from the ground before attacking in a downward diagonal path from above Robin's head to the ground near his foe.

Also, have we gotten any view of the front covers of the tomes? Because I'm pretty sure they're pulling those directly from the game as well, but I can't find pics to confirm.

 

[Reila]

Great thread!

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

You forgot to mention Arcfire acts like it does in the GBA games as well, forming up from the ground before attacking in a downward diagonal path from above Robin's head to the ground near his foe.

Looks to appear that way now that I looked at it. Kinda odd since Arcfire's not like that in the games really, using a long-range flamethrower (Awakening) or surrounding pillar of flames (Radiant Dawn) from what I've seen. Would have preferred it to be called Elfire instead but perhaps that might be customized tome.

Also, have we gotten any view of the front covers of the tomes? Because I'm pretty sure they're pulling those directly from the game as well, but I can't find pics to confirm.[/quote]

I'll try checking that later, perhaps. But from what I've noticed, the Thunder tomes' cover emblems seem to change as Robin charges his Thunder-move. I'll check the cover stuff for this later. Dunno about Nosferatu-tome cover though, I need to see better screenshots of that: same for other tomes.

 

[Luminario]

Looks to appear that way now that I looked at it. Kinda odd since Arcfire's not like that in the games really, using a long-range flamethrower (Awakening) or surrounding pillar of flames (Radiant Dawn) from what I've seen. Would have preferred it to be called Elfire instead but perhaps that might be customized tome.

Also, have we gotten any view of the front covers of the tomes? Because I'm pretty sure they're pulling those directly from the game as well, but I can't find pics to confirm.

I'll try checking that later, perhaps. But from what I've noticed, the Thunder tomes' cover emblems seem to change as Robin charges his Thunder-move. I'll check the cover stuff for this later. Dunno about Nosferatu-tome cover though, I need to see better screenshots of that: same for other tomes.

Went through the moveset threads to find this for you so YOU'RE WELCOME.

Elthunder, Thunder and Arcthunder.

Actually, you're mistaken my friend. I got you covered

Boom, Thoron.

Nosferatu~

Arcfire~

 

[Skyblade12]

Went through the moveset threads to find this for you so YOU'RE WELCOME.


Elthunder, Thunder and Arcthunder.




Nosferatu~


Arcfire~

Now show us pictures of all the tome covers from Awakening (in battle, not the sprite images). Just for comparison.

 

[Luminario]

Now show us pictures of all the tome covers from Awakening (in battle, not the sprite images). Just for comparison.

Christ you're on your own for that one honey. Google gave me nothing, same as the FE wiki.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Went through the moveset threads to find this for you so YOU'RE WELCOME.

The quality for these are pretty blurry. But thanks for your effort. It gave me a way to go for.

Arcfire

Seems to resemble it while crafted with their own touch.

Thunder

Elthunder

Elthunder is actually given a bigger sprite on the bolt emblem than that of Thunder, in most of FE-games, but Path of Radiance had it use something similar to what we have here (Above)

In general, it seems just "double bolt", based on the old tome artwork for it from the FE Trading Card Game:

Nosferatu

Doesn't look to be similar, but they went somewhat creative with this one. Don't find much matching from other FEs either. Mostly the circularish pattern is kept.

I'll tackle the rest after we get more HD-quality images of them.

 

[Delzethin]

I don't have a pic to prove it, but I know for a fact that the Nosferatu design is the one used when in battle in Awakening. If you equip it on a character and do a unit preview (touch their portrait on the bottom screen), you can get a glimpse or two of it.

 

[Unicorn]

Is it confirmed that the wind is his jab? Sorry I don't read the moveset forum too often.

Also, great choice of mage to represent the GBA games. Lugh is duh boss.

 

[Burruni]

Is it confirmed that the wind is his jab? Sorry I don't read the moveset forum too often.

Also, great choice of mage to represent the GBA games. Lugh is duh boss.

Actually, it appears that there's a different jab combo for each book type. We saw such for Fire and Wind.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Actually, it appears that there's a different jab combo for each book type. We saw such for Fire and Wind.

Really? Wonder what's the fire-one like. Any pics?

I don't have a pic to prove it, but I know for a fact that the Nosferatu design is the one used when in battle in Awakening. If you equip it on a character and do a unit preview (touch their portrait on the bottom screen), you can get a glimpse or two of it.

I might try getting this as a screenshot if havin' time. Since I have the game fully cleared and all... /

 

[Hong]

Really? Wonder what's the fire-one like. Any pics?

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Hm, makes me think of Meta's F-Tilt? But maybe you have a point. Though it'd be quite complicated if Robin's attack's would change based on the tomes.

 

[Skyblade12]

Hm, makes me think of Meta's F-Tilt? But maybe you have a point. Though it'd be quite complicated if Robin's attack's would change based on the tomes.

Complicated is good.

 

[Hong]

I thought it could be an ftilt as well. We had a discussion about it in the moveset thread.

All still speculation, of course.

Complicated is good.

It's never that simple.

Whether or not a complication provides value is something that is judged on a case-by-case basis. It can be the difference between engaging and fruitful decision processes, versus another dumb and pointless gimmick.

We won't know until the game ships.

 

[Skyblade12]

It's never that simple.

Nothing ever is.

Whether or not a complication provides value is something that is judged on a case-by-case basis. It can be the difference between engaging and fruitful decision processes, versus another dumb and pointless gimmick.

We won't know until the game ships.

Well, Robin's complications are ones that I am very much looking forward to exploring when the game releases.

 

[Burruni]

One simple way of looking at things with the variation of the jab combos is that the books work like a "stance" system.
Wind obviously focuses on many weak hits like Fox or Kirby.
Fire seems to be more spaced but higher damage like Luigi or Sonic.
Thunder could end up being just a one-hit jab "combo" like Ganondorf or Bowser.
When it comes to Dark, I genuinely have no idea what style the jab could go under... but what about when there is no book present?

 

[Skyblade12]

When it comes to Dark, I genuinely have no idea what style the jab could go under... but what about when there is no book present?

That would only happen at the start of a match (before he uses a tome) or after he has worn one out. Personally, I think he starts with a default, and immediately switches to that default if he wears one out.

So the only issue would be if they all broke. And, let's face it, you'll probably get no magic combos in that case, just the sword swings.

 

[Hong]

For what it's worth, I don't think normals will exhaust tome durability.

 

[Skyblade12]

For what it's worth, I don't think normals will exhaust tome durability.

Agreed. That would just be silly (and crippling to his recovery).

But I do think that if you have exhausted all your tomes, your combos are going to be substantially less impressive.

 

[ToothiestAura]

One simple way of looking at things with the variation of the jab combos is that the books work like a "stance" system.
Wind obviously focuses on many weak hits like Fox or Kirby.
Fire seems to be more spaced but higher damage like Luigi or Sonic.
Thunder could end up being just a one-hit jab "combo" like Ganondorf or Bowser.
When it comes to Dark, I genuinely have no idea what style the jab could go under... but what about when there is no book present?

He hits him with the book?

For what it's worth, I don't think normals will exhaust tome durability.

I wonder if missed attacks will count toward durability. My first thought is yes, but that isn't how it worked in Awakening.

 

[Frostwraith]

Interesting thread. There are some details I didn't notice.

Though I've only played RD and Awakening, it's great that Robin has a few throwbacks to other FE games.

I really like how the Thunder tomes change with the charge, even though it will be hard to notice in battle. It's a great detail anyway and might be interesting for snapshots.

 

[•Col•]

Is it confirmed that the wind is his jab? Sorry I don't read the moveset forum too often.

It's looking very likely, yes.

I made a post about it in the Moveset analysis thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/robi...scussion-phase-1.361031/page-31#post-17237015

 

[Drakonis]

I couldn't find a better reference picture from Awakening, but Robin's idle stance in Smash is very close to the one he/she has in Awakening when holding a tome. The biggest difference is probably the tome being open in Smash. And that Robin holds the Sword in the free hand, of course.

Not a big surprise but I thought it was worth mentioning.

 

[.Shìkì]

He hits him with the book?


I wonder if missed attacks will count toward durability. My first thought is yes, but that isn't how it worked in Awakening.

Actually, Bows and Books lose durability on misses, Swords do not. Which makes sense as the Arrow is gone/the bow is strained the same. Swords do not break if they don't hit anything. So propably missing spells will brin down the tome, missing levin sword attacks will not coiunt towards the swords attacklimit.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Man, I really thought Unit Gallery would let me switch weapons. I'll try getting better ways to get closeups of some weapons namely Nosferatu. Done and done. I also found out that I can try using the skirmish preparing mode for taking close-ups for tome emblem designs.

Anyway, @Drakonist, thanks for pointing out! I popped in Awakening to access a bonus mode in it and the pose identical: the difference now being that Robin has his hands full with a tome and sword. (Also switched the tome's position in hand)

(My Unit, of course. (-´~´)´´ Named him Indy after my preferred username(s))

What is also noticeable is how the Robin has the book open most of the time, presumably for shorten his time spellcasting. Fitting since he's in a fighting turf like Super Smash Bros.


EDIT:

Yes! It appears Tharja has Nosferatu-tome in Unit Gallery.

So the cover emblem for Nosferatu seems to be taken from this game. Sweet!

EDIT2:
Got ones for other Thunder Tomes!

Thoron

(Looks to be same, really blurry however.)


Elthunder

Since the tomes seem pretty easy-peasy to get via design (so far), I wanna dig now on if the spells themselves look similar to their original depiction.

 

[.Shìkì]

Man, I really thought Unit Gallery would let me switch weapons. I'll try getting better ways to get closeups of some weapons namely Nosferatu. Done and done. I also found out that I can try using the skirmish preparing mode for taking close-ups for tome emblem designs.

Anyway, @Drakonist, thanks for pointing out! I popped in Awakening to access a bonus mode in it and the pose identical: the difference now being that Robin has his hands full with a tome and sword. (Also switched the tome's position in hand)

(My Unit, of course. (-´~´)´´ Named him Indy after my preferred username(s))

What is also noticeable is how the Robin has the book open most of the time, presumably for shorten his time spellcasting. Fitting since he's in a fighting turf like Super Smash Bros.


EDIT:

Yes! It appears Tharja has Nosferatu-tome in Unit Gallery.

So the cover emblem for Nosferatu seems to be taken from this game. Sweet!

EDIT2:
Got ones for other Thunder Tomes!



And Elthunder.

Nice finds! Looks like the Nosferatu Symbol was "canon" after all.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Nice finds! Looks like the Nosferatu Symbol was "canon" after all.

Yeah. I think most, if not all these symbols seem lifted directly from Awakening, since they were so easy to find.

Since the tomes seem pretty easy-peasy to get via design (so far), I wanna dig now on if the spells themselves look similar to their original depiction after archiving the tome symbols. Kinda annoyed how we can't get more HD pictures of these tomes - ah, maybe when the game's released.

 

[.Shìkì]

Yeah. I think most, if not all these symbols seem lifted directly from Awakening, since they were so easy to find.

Since the tomes seem pretty easy-peasy to get via design (so far), I wanna dig now on if the spells themselves look similar to their original depiction after archiving the tome symbols. Kinda annoyed how we can't get more HD pictures of these tomes - ah, maybe when the game's released.

Do you mean the spellparticles ? If so, it has been posted at least 2 of them are taken from the GBA Games (Elwind and Arcfire). Thoron is also not the Awakening one as that looks more like a lance made of lightning, and not like a fast traveling ball/DBZ energy projectile. Also El- and Arcthunder aren't projectiles in awakening. Nosferatu is missing the red blood-particles and it also was a ranged spell.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Do you mean the spellparticles ? If so, it has been posted at least 2 of them are taken from the GBA Games (Elwind and Arcfire). Thoron is also not the Awakening one as that looks more like a lance made of lightning, and not like a fast traveling ball/DBZ energy projectile. Also El- and Arcthunder aren't projectiles in awakening. Nosferatu is missing the red blood-particles and it also was a ranged spell.

Well I'll try checking those out in more detail, thanks for giving me clarification!

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

The game is so close to being out! I shall resume this when I have a free time to settle down from playing overnight.

Something I noticed in the meantime - Thunder in SSB4 is clearly similar to it's origin from Awakening: a ball of bolt.

Arcthunder I already saw using same animation to the one in Awakening in SSB4, except much miniature and simplified:

 

[dimensionsword64]

I wonder if Robin's Goetia custom special for Nosferatu has a different cover.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Alrighty now guys, I finally sat down to do more through rundown on all the tomes in the games. So sad that as an European I still need to wait for the HD-version for more detailed versions of the pics. Consider these little placeholders until I give them separate sections of "3DS" and "Wii U".
Most of the stuff here is based on visual looks to the move, as SmashWiki has already figured out most of the functional origins behind most moves.

I'll cover Thunder (Neutral B) for this iteration as my time's runnin' out to cover rest for this day of mine:

Spoiler: Thunder Magic (B) Part 1

- Overview -​

Thunder-magic is a staple of Anima (Elemental) Magic in Fire Emblem-series, debuting along with Fire, Wind, Light and Dark Magic in Fire Emblem: The Dark Dragon and Sword of Light (FE1). They're fairly known to possess higher Critical Hit-rate compared to other Anima Magic, but lack more accuracy and might when combined with the unit's strength stat.

Like in the series, all the tomes here used are based on each being separate ranks, ascending higher to more powerful ones as the move is charged. The rank system with the tomes here is borrowed from Awakening, as some of these are absent from other FE-games.

- Thunder - (Debut: FE1)​

- Tapping B immediately after Robin charges the move makes him shoot a little jolt of electricity which has short range and deals just 1% damage whilst stunning them a bit.

Very weak but not without use: it can be used as a mini-paralyzer for little setups close to you or punish approaches without sending the opponent too far for follow-ups.
Origin:

• In most FE-games, Thunder is depicted as a single lightning bolt hitting the target from above.

(FE1: DD & SOL)

(FE3: Mystery of Emblem)

(FE6: Binding Blade)

• In Awakening however, Thunder would appear as a ball of jolt, which seems to be clear origin on it's SSB4-incarnation:

(Awakening)

This also goes for Elthunder's form in SSB4 as well, more on that below.


Cover Symbol:

All of the Cover Symbols in the tomes are based on ones from Awakening. I'll overview their origins from the previous FEs through them.

• Thunder's tome symbol is depicted as a single lightning bolt throughout the entire series:

(Fire Emblem: Trading Card Game)

(Awakening)

(SSB 4 3DS)

Interesting tidbit is Robin seeing usually holding Thunder-tome in his promotional artwork, throwing back on him/MUs having both Thunder-tome and the Bronze Sword as starting weapons in Awakening.

****
​

- Elthunder- (Debut: FE4: Genealogy of Holy War)​

- When charged a little bit to a yellow spark before tapped, Robin will cast Elthunder.

Elthunder appears similar to Thunder except being a bigger orb of electrictiy, traveling farther and having moderate knockback to it. It also deals nice 9% damage for a projectile. More useful than Thunder, of course, and can be good damage racker while not asking for much durability (ONLY 3). I've found it a nice keepaway and pressure tool.

Origin:

• Debuting in Genealogy of Holy War, Elthunder appeared as a big bolts of lightning raining down from above to it's target:

• After being a while absent from the games since, it would appear again in Tellius-games, depicted as tri-bolt lightning strike crushing your opponent.

• In Awakening, Elthunder was shown as a single lightning bolt, similar to Thunder's usual apperance and function in last FE-games:

Of course, none of these contribute to SSB4's Elthunder appearance, aside from little hindsight of Awakening's version being possible throwback to Thunder in most FE-games, and maybe little bit of it's original appearance in Genealogy of Holy War.

Cover Symbol:

• With rather few appearances, the first depiction of Elthunder-tome's symbol was in the trading card game's artwork, having a dual bolts next to each other.

• In it's returning appearance at Path of Radiance however, the sprite icon for it is given a more "jaggy" look, perhaps to accentuate it's mightier power over it's basic counterpart. Radiant Dawn however changed it be single bolt cover symbol like Thunder's.

​

(Path of Radiance's sprite icon)​

• These two instances would probably serve the inspiration for the "double bolt"-motive behind Elthunder's cover symbol in Awakening:

(Awakening)

(SSB4 3DS)

There. I hope to get back on as soon as I can.

I wonder if Robin's Goetia custom special for Nosferatu has a different cover.

I tried to see this and nope, it doesn't change. But TBH, this is to be expected after how custom moves are mere "modified" versions of the same attack, not changing much of it's articles or graphics to suit the change (otherwise we'd have Kirby actualy blowing out ice breath rather than look like he's vacuuming it out or something)

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

@ Hong : whoops, double post. Sorry Hong-sama!

 

[False Sense]

Alrighty now guys, I finally sat down to do more through rundown on all the tomes in the games. So sad that as an European I still need to wait for the HD-version for more detailed versions of the pics. Consider these little placeholders until I give them separate sections of "3DS" and "Wii U".
Most of the stuff here is based on visual looks to the move, as SmashWiki has already figured out most of the functional origins behind most moves.

I'll cover Thunder (Neutral B) for this iteration as my time's runnin' out to cover rest for this day of mine:

Spoiler: Thunder Magic (B) Part 1

Thunder-magic is a staple of Anima (Elemental) Magic in Fire Emblem-series, debuting along with Fire, Wind, Light and Dark Magic in Fire Emblem: The Dark Dragon and Sword of Light (FE1). They're fairly known to possess higher Critical Hit-rate compared to other Anima Magic, but lack more accuracy and might when combined with the unit's strength stat.

Like in the series, all the tomes here used are based on each being separate ranks, ascending higher to more powerful ones as the move is charged. The rank system with the tomes here is borrowed from Awakening, as some of these are absent from other FE-games.

- Thunder - (Debut: FE1)

Tapping B immediately after Robin charges the move makes him shoot a little jolt of electricity which has short range and deals just 1% damage whilst stunning them a bit. Very weak but not without use: it can be used as a mini-paralyzer for little setups close to you or punish approaches without sending the opponent too far for follow-ups.

In most FE-games, Thunder is depicted as a single lightning bolt hitting the target from above.

(FE1: DD & SOL)

(FE3: Mystery of Emblem)

(FE6: Binding Blade)

In Awakening however, Thunder would appear as a ball of jolt, which seems to be clear origin on it's SSB4-incarnation:

(Awakening)

This also goes for Elthunder's form in SSB4 as well, more on that below.

Cover Symbol:

All of the Cover Symbols in the tomes are based on ones from Awakening. I'll go through seeing their origins from the previous FEs through them.

Thunder's tome symbol is depicted as a single lightning bolt throughout the entire series:

(Awakening)

(SSB 4 3DS)

Interesting tidbit is Robin seeing usually holding Thunder-tome in his promotional artwork, throwing back on him/MUs having both Thunder-tome and the Bronze Sword as starting weapons in Awakening.

- Elthunder- (Debut: FE4: Genealogy of Holy War)

When charged a little bit to a yellow spark before tapped, Robin will cast Elthunder.

Elthunder appears similar to Thunder except being a bigger orb of electrictiy, traveling farther and having moderate knockback to it. It also deals nice 9% damage for a projectile. More useful than Thunder, of course, and can be good damage racker while not asking for much durability (ONLY 3). I've found it a nice keepaway and pressure tool.

Debuting in Genealogy of Holy War, Elthunder appeared as a big bolts of lightning raining down from above to it's target:

After being a while absent from the games since, it would appear again in Tellius-games, depicted as tri-bolt lightning strike crushing it's opponent.

In Awakening, Elthunder was shown as a single lightning bolt, similar to Thunder's usual apperance and function in last FE-games:

Of course, none of these contribute to SSB4's Elthunder appearance, aside from little hindsight of Awakening's version being possible throwback to Thunder in most FE-games, and maybe little bit of it's original appearance in Genealogy of Holy War.

Cover Symbol:

With rather few appearances, the first depiction of Elthunder-tome's symbol was in the trading card game's artwork:

In it's returning appearance at Path of Radiance however, the sprite icon for it is given a more "jaggy" look, somewhat similar to what it'd end up be like in Awakening (Radiant Dawn would have it be single bolt-cover like Thunder's)

(Path of Radiance's sprite icon)

These would probably serve the inspiration for the "double bolt"-motive behind Elthunder's cover symbol in Awakening:

(Awakening)

(SSB4 3DS)

There. I hope to get back on as soon as I can.



I tried to see this and nope, it doesn't change. But TBH, this is to be expected after how custom moves are mere "modified" versions of the same attack, not changing much of it's articles or graphics to suit the change (otherwise we'd have Kirby actualy blowing out ice breath rather than look like he's vacuuming it out or something)

Hey, I just noticed something reading through all this (nice finds, by the way). Take a look at this picture again, but specifically look at Robin's pose when he/she casts one of the Thunder spells.

Now compare that to the pose used by most mages in Awakening.

It matches up almost perfectly. Just another example of the incredible attention to detail and love for Fire Emblem displayed through Robin.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Hey, I just noticed something reading through all this (nice finds, by the way). Take a look at this picture again, but specifically look at Robin's pose when he/she casts one of the Thunder spells.

Now compare that to the pose used by most mages in Awakening.

It matches up almost perfectly. Just another example of the incredible attention to detail and love for Fire Emblem displayed through Robin.

Well I'll be damned, we're making discoveries every second now. I'm happily surprised, thanks for pointing out!