Using the C-stick for low and effective slingshots?

[Mr.Sile]

Hello, Just a noob player here.


I wouldn't lie If someone asked me If I watch @ zeezee , Ranai and Salem religiously. All three players have different playstyles that help me improve in various aspects of Villager play (Salem being stage control and traps). However, I have to say that I enjoy Zee and Ranai a bit more due to their often aggressive nature.

I recently asked @ zeezee through his Youtube channel whether it is worth it to master using the C-stick for those low, proper placed slingshots.

I personally have mastered the SHFF aerials as well as autocancel and other stuff. However, I'm looking to expand my options and improve my play.

What do you think, guys? To what degree are you rewarded for learning how to slingshot with the C-stick? Benefits? Disadvantages?

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Hi, and welcome to the Villager boards! Unless of course you've posted here before and I've missed it...

Anyway yeah, I often use SHFF slingshots for characters that are just too low to be hit by the ending arc or aren't high enough to be hit by just SHSlingshot. Though I don't normally use the C-stick for this, but that's beside the point.

You should bear in mind slingshot's landing lag though, since FFing to get the right height will never let you autocancel it. As a Villager your spacing game should be on point, but just be aware of that and don't let them punish you.

 

[JohnnyB]

Maybe zee will tell you in this thread? He does post on this board. =)



The idea behind using slingshot in neutral is fastfalling at the right moment. You want to time it so that the sling pellet ends up just above the ground(for shorter opponents), OR you release it early enough so that it still hits but it autocancels and you don't have landing lag (for taller opponents like gannondorf or bowser). For the first technique you fastfall then slingshot, for the second it's the other way around.

For me at least the cstick is essential for both of these techniques. Hope that helps a bit!

 

[Antonykun]

I ended up just training myself to do low slinghots

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Yeah I should have mentioned that C-Stick makes it so that you're basically guaranteed to get the slingshot. What I mean is that I pretty much exclusively play on 3DS since I don't have an adapter, and despite having the New 3DS I can't get used to the C-Stick. So I use the circle pad, which will sometimes result in my doing a SHFFUAir instead...

 

[zeezee]

Yeah using the C-stick is immensely helpful simply because you get to move around in the air as freely as you want to while inputting an attack. So doing fast fall slingshots is wayyy easier, same for retreating Fairs/Bairs/Nairs...

If you're gonna use the C-stick for aerials though I highly recommend setting it to "attack" so that its easier to do C-stick inputs and such. The problem with having the C-stick set to default/smash is that when you input a direction with the C-stick it stops any movement you are doing with the analog stick. Even if some people are able to do the C-stick inputs really fast, it still stops your analog stick movement a little bit which is annoying. Its hard to get used to though because you lose your ability to do smash attacks with the C-stick and the diagonal inputs on the C-stick do neutral attacks (Jabs, Nairs, etc).

I think every Villager should learn to use the C-stick for stuff though just cause its so much easier to do aerials which is a big part of Villagers gameplay. Go on training mode daily and practice doing SHFF slingshot drills with the C-stick...its much easier to do when you have one of the L/R/Z buttons set to jump.

 

[Antonykun]

Yeah using the C-stick is immensely helpful simply because you get to move around in the air as freely as you want to while inputting an attack. So doing fast fall slingshots is wayyy easier, same for retreating Fairs/Bairs/Nairs...

If you're gonna use the C-stick for aerials though I highly recommend setting it to "attack" so that its easier to do C-stick inputs and such. The problem with having the C-stick set to default/smash is that when you input a direction with the C-stick it stops any movement you are doing with the analog stick. Even if some people are able to do the C-stick inputs really fast, it still stops your analog stick movement a little bit which is annoying. Its hard to get used to though because you lose your ability to do smash attacks with the C-stick and the diagonal inputs on the C-stick do neutral attacks (Jabs, Nairs, etc).

I think every Villager should learn to use the C-stick for stuff though just cause its so much easier to do aerials which is a big part of Villagers gameplay. Go on training mode daily and practice doing SHFF slingshot drills with the C-stick...its much easier to do when you have one of the L/R/Z buttons set to jump.

The day I get me a wii u will be the day I can no longer 3DS :/

 

[Mr.Sile]

I ended up just training myself to do low slinghots

It's so satisfying but my problem is that although I know how to do them, in order to fight someone like Kirby, I need to concentrate in order to get that extremely low slingshot. Anyone else, I can provide them with a quick barrage of slingshots.

The idea behind using slingshot in neutral is fastfalling at the right moment. You want to time it so that the sling pellet ends up just above the ground(for shorter opponents), OR you release it early enough so that it still hits but it autocancels and you don't have landing lag (for taller opponents like gannondorf or bowser). For the first technique you fastfall then slingshot, for the second it's the other way around.

For me at least the cstick is essential for both of these techniques. Hope that helps a bit!

I already have learned and gotten used to autocanceling my aerials, I just want to expand my options and avoid getting punished when firing those low slingshots. Thanks for the input though. Just in case anyone else needs to learn in, The way I learned the autocancels is basically timing the attack so the animation ends once you hit the ground.

Yeah using the C-stick is immensely helpful simply because you get to move around in the air as freely as you want to while inputting an attack. So doing fast fall slingshots is wayyy easier, same for retreating Fairs/Bairs/Nairs...

If you're gonna use the C-stick for aerials though I highly recommend setting it to "attack" so that its easier to do C-stick inputs and such. The problem with having the C-stick set to default/smash is that when you input a direction with the C-stick it stops any movement you are doing with the analog stick. Even if some people are able to do the C-stick inputs really fast, it still stops your analog stick movement a little bit which is annoying. Its hard to get used to though because you lose your ability to do smash attacks with the C-stick and the diagonal inputs on the C-stick do neutral attacks (Jabs, Nairs, etc).

I think every Villager should learn to use the C-stick for stuff though just cause its so much easier to do aerials which is a big part of Villagers gameplay. Go on training mode daily and practice doing SHFF slingshot drills with the C-stick...its much easier to do when you have one of the L/R/Z buttons set to jump.

When I first started playing Smash Wii U with a gamecube controller, I accidentally picked up this really bad habit of shielding with R. Should I work to change the habit due to button placement reasons or should I just map the L button to jump and practice from there? What is your controller set up (buttons and habits)?

Just want to take this moment to thank you for your videos and input, I regularly ask you for advice on your youtube channel (probably know who I am, hint: green snake guy) and I have a page or two full of your advice. You are an awesome player and I love the way you play. If you are available I would love have a match or two to try and see how have I progressed.

 

[mario123007]

Yeah using the C-stick is immensely helpful simply because you get to move around in the air as freely as you want to while inputting an attack. So doing fast fall slingshots is wayyy easier, same for retreating Fairs/Bairs/Nairs...

If you're gonna use the C-stick for aerials though I highly recommend setting it to "attack" so that its easier to do C-stick inputs and such. The problem with having the C-stick set to default/smash is that when you input a direction with the C-stick it stops any movement you are doing with the analog stick. Even if some people are able to do the C-stick inputs really fast, it still stops your analog stick movement a little bit which is annoying. Its hard to get used to though because you lose your ability to do smash attacks with the C-stick and the diagonal inputs on the C-stick do neutral attacks (Jabs, Nairs, etc).

I think every Villager should learn to use the C-stick for stuff though just cause its so much easier to do aerials which is a big part of Villagers gameplay. Go on training mode daily and practice doing SHFF slingshot drills with the C-stick...its much easier to do when you have one of the L/R/Z buttons set to jump.

Because C stick on the New 3DS is stiff, I need an adequate pressure in order to do an attack, unlike Gamecube controller's C stick that is more easier to move.

 

[JohnnyB]

.
I already have learned and gotten used to autocanceling my aerials, I just want to expand my options and avoid getting punished when firing those low slingshots. Thanks for the input though. Just in case anyone else needs to learn in, The way I learned the autocancels is basically timing the attack so the animation ends once you hit the ground.

Not to prod at you or anything but are you fastfall auto canceling your slingshots? I'm only asking because doing so will allow you to attack faster more frequently, and more safely than just slow fall auto canceling your aerials (though you don't necessarily always want to do this it's just a really useful skill to have).

 

[AnchorTea]

Set the c-stick to attack, trust me. It WILL help you immensely. You can even do stuff like these easily with it set to attack:

Not only these are viable, but you can earn style points in tourneys!!

 

[Mr.Sile]

Not to prod at you or anything but are you fastfall auto canceling your slingshots? I'm only asking because doing so will allow you to attack faster more frequently, and more safely than just slow fall auto canceling your aerials (though you don't necessarily always want to do this it's just a really useful skill to have).

Yeah, What I do is basically something someone taught me:

''SH Rising BAir FF is a free no landing lag, much easier
For a Rising SH FAir, there's a small time you need to wait in order to get the fast fall cancel.
SH FAir -very small delay- FF.''

Set the c-stick to attack, trust me. It WILL help you immensely. You can even do stuff like these easily with it set to attack:

Not only these are viable, but you can earn style points in tourneys!!

What's the input for the first one? C-stick left, FF? I'm trying to figure out the inputs and how to fire quickly.

 

[AnchorTea]

Yeah, What I do is basically something someone taught me:

''SH Rising BAir FF is a free no landing lag, much easier
For a Rising SH FAir, there's a small time you need to wait in order to get the fast fall cancel.
SH FAir -very small delay- FF.''



What's the input for the first one? C-stick left, FF? I'm trying to figure out the inputs and how to fire quickly.

I set the c stick to attack

 

[Keeseman]

I set the c stick to attack

You don't need to set the c-stick to attack to do aerials... I keep my c-stick set to smash for faster bowling balls and fireworks, and I also find it helps with perfect pivots and such, because normally with a perfect pivot I wind up inputting a jab or side-A rather than a side smash.

It's all personal preference, really, but you don't need to set the c-stick to attack for doing air attacks.

 

[AnchorTea]

You don't need to set the c-stick to attack to do aerials... I keep my c-stick set to smash for faster bowling balls and fireworks, and I also find it helps with perfect pivots and such, because normally with a perfect pivot I wind up inputting a jab or side-A rather than a side smash.

It's all personal preference, really, but you don't need to set the c-stick to attack for doing air attacks.

Setting it to attack can implement the aerials much quicker than usual. Villager's aerials are amazing for his playstyle, and it helps a lot.

Although. In the end. It's made for preference.

 

[Keeseman]

Setting it to attack can implement the aerials much quicker than usual. Villager's aerials are amazing for his playstyle, and it helps a lot.

Really? I tried testing it out, and I didn't notice a difference when I changed it to attack. Is there frame data for this? That would be much appreciated.

 

[zeezee]

Really? I tried testing it out, and I didn't notice a difference when I changed it to attack. Is there frame data for this? That would be much appreciated.

 

[AnchorTea]

Really? I tried testing it out, and I didn't notice a difference when I changed it to attack. Is there frame data for this? That would be much appreciated.

Well, if you count pushing a joystick instead of pushing a button and joystick faster, then no. xD

Edit: @ zeezee ninja'd me. But it is just a bit more easier. Especially for Villager.

 

[Keeseman]

Huh, I guess I just hadn't noticed this when playing. I'll try it out more and see if I'd rather go for that; I guess I never picked up on this difference between sm4sh and the previous games.

 

[arncakes]

I tried setting Z to jump and C-stick to attack, and it did help with slingshots quite a bit. However, after using it for a while, I decided to go back to my regular controls with c-stick as smash. For my play style, I prefer to have the instant f-smash and u-smash as well as my jump button in a comfortable place. I find it much easier to get bowling ball kills and reads with the c-stick, and it's near impossible to mess up dropping one of the edge. Both ways have advantages, I just prefer easier smashes over easier slingshots.

I may switch eventually, but I'm not sure.

 

[MeTriK]

Well, if you count pushing a joystick instead of pushing a button and joystick faster, then no. xD

Edit: @ zeezee ninja'd me. But it is just a bit more easier. Especially for Villager.

so for you C-stick for aerial guys, do you use tap jump or just like (x/y) jump and then flick the c stick? Also, do you try then not to utilize the smash attacks as much due to the higher chance for a laggy charged smash?

 

[Mr.Sile]

so for you C-stick for aerial guys, do you use tap jump or just like (x/y) jump and then flick the c stick? Also, do you try then not to utilize the smash attacks as much due to the higher chance for a laggy charged smash?

Well, I taught myself (practiced for days) how to use a shoulder button (L in my case) to jump and it becomes easier to use the Cstick.

So what you want to do is jump and flick the stick (set to attack) while moving the control stick to move Villager while he's firing the shot. This helps cancelling the lag of fair/bair feel much easier IMO.