Undertale Mafia, 13 man! Game over! Town wins!

[ranmaru]

Kantrip has also neglected to respond to my #483. I feel that was important in understanding his view on my play. Looking up, deadline is 11:59PM PST, which google tells me is 2:59pm EST. (3am)

 

[Kantrip]

I'm not trying to lynch based on set-up speculation but I do legitimately see this as a counter-claim situation. I understand the roles could co-exist but I'm doubtful here. I wouldn't base a lynch off role speculation alone, I just think it helps lend credence to the opinion that we should lynch Ran that I already hold.

I shouldn't say we'll get no information from a Koopa lynch but I just feel like the nature of the lynch being essentially a fall-back makes it much less appealing than an already-claimed Ran in a pseudo-counter-claim scenario and whose slot I find infinitely scummier than Koopa's.

I've already said I found Ran's catch-up into the game really underwhelming and it looked like he was trying to fluff it up doing things like asking Kary "Why?" a bunch of times in a row (once for every different vote Kary made) and then asking 7 different people in different words if they would lynch Rake. The only things asked were about his scumreads which I felt didn't have strong reasoning backing them and all his text was just a fluffy waste of space to look like he was justifying his nice neat 3 scumreads.

 

[#HBC | J]

I'm on my phone but uuuh I have a gif for Kanty on him suggesting this is a CC situation.

Like reaaaaaally?

Anyways, if I get my coffee I'll be in a Mafia mood and I'll respond to some qualms it seems people have. However I am still kind of surprised Sang of all people is the most active behind myself.

Speaking of, Sang, get your shifty eyes away from me. I will bonk you.

 

[Kantrip]

Kantrip :

To me your push seems to have more reasoning than Joey does, yet I never compared the two pushes and nor do I simply only look at that. You have been active, and you have been re-evaluating. I did mention I understand your point of view and I understand J's as well, when it comes to your push on J. Joey has been less active, and hasn't really been looking into other leads once Soup replaced out. He isn't trying very hard. One point that you use against soup is that he was using RVS as an excuse, yet you forget that Joey only focused on the RVS aspect, nothing else. Is that really fine for you and everyone else?

I don't recall Joey's push against soup being based solely off RVS. The way I remember it is Joey agreeing with my push and adding his own points too. Perhaps I misremember?

Joey is my strongest read and my other reads are pretty weak. I only just came in but my reads will develop as the game continues and I interact with more people. I like Spak, I like Sang, I like you (even though you are wrong), and that leaves me with a bunch of nulls. Now you say I bring up things that you don't care for, yet these are people that are null to slightly suspicious, and need to explain their mindset more. I'm null on Gheb, Koops, Rake, and He-Man.

That's fine, although I will say with the phase in the game it doesn't matter that you just replaced in you have just as much to work with in reading people as everyone else.

I think you are also confirmation biasing my slot due to Soup, and feel you are shutting me down without giving me a chance to show you a different perspective. I can try to give you what Soup may have been thinking for you, that is the best I can do. Finally, people should care about Kary's unexplained votes early on, and should care about what He-Man is thinking. It makes sense for me who has replaced in, to ask about things I find unexplained and concerning.

If you have a problem with my catch up, why not comment on Red Ryu? What is your opinion of him and his catch up? How is it different than my catch up?

@tHe-Man @#HBC | Ryker @#HBC | ZoZo: Please give thoughts on the current state, messed up tags last time.

I'll be at work now so expect responses later today.

I don't think I am looking at you replacing in with scum goggles. Reading through your entrance to the game with an open mind I still come up with the same problems. I don't feel like there's anything setting off red flags with how Ryu entered the game as opposed to your approach.

I don't think Kary's votes in RVS phase matter much, and I don't think there's anything to say about tHe-man except I guess I hope they get replaced/modkilled sooner than later.

 

[Kantrip]

I need to go out to deal with Christmas stuff, I'll have my phone on me so I can switch my vote to Koopa if we need a hammer there but otherwise I won't be around to post much else.

Ranmaru / J / Gheb is my scumpool
Koopa / Dietz / tHe-man is my null pile
Joey / Kary / Ryu / Rake are people I like right now but I could easily see myself being wrong

 

[ranmaru]

Soup diving headfirst into the game with subpar reads based on meta. Not a fan if he keeps this read going for whatever reason.

Soup continues to dive straight into the ground.

The closest thing I have to a scum read is Soup tbh. His play in regards to Koops didn't show anything legitimate (especially when Koops play at the time was lacking in any scum intent what-so-ever), and his summary of Kantrip's argument is very misinforming and lacking. With the way he has been playing so far, I really can't justify what he has done as scum hunting because of how poorly he has defined his suspicions.

I have already explained that his observation of Koops was legitimate, and it reflects in Koops play now. I also don't see how 'based on meta' means scum intent. If Koops flips scum, I'd look at this as a chainsaw. In the red, I don't get how this is supposed to outline scum intent at all, and seems more like trying to come up with words to show dislike without really having genuine dislike. I also find his point about the summary a misrepresentation. This is Joey's push. What else is Joey doing right now? Nothing.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

i dont see any reason why flavor co and weak voyuer can't coexist. Like, this is as far from a cc as it gets. I dont get to know roles lol.

 

[Dooms]

i dont see any reason why flavor co and weak voyuer can't coexist. Like, this is as far from a cc as it gets. I dont get to know roles lol.

Flavor cop doesn't get to know roles, either. It's kind of the fact that it's redundant for town to have two flavor-based information roles in the same game. I'm assuming flavor is important, but town having a stronger and more consistent version of your role is where the questioning starts to kick in.

I don't know why people are voting Koopa. Inactive read? I have to mirror Kantrip's thoughts and say that I don't think we'd get much from a Koopa lynch at all unless he's town. Are there things he's actually done that have been scummy? Saying not to take his reads as much (as stated by Gheb) doesn't really say much.

I also don't know why people would vote Rake at this point. The push was pretty weak in the first place, and he's just really confusing to read with how he's been posting tbh. I would have voted him if it came down to deadline (because, ya know, null inactive read), but honestly idk about it at this point. I would lynch Koopa before Rake.

I really don't see a reason why I should be moving my vote off of Ranmaru at this point in the game, though.

Out of potential lynches at this point in time, I'd definitely go

Ran>>>>>>Koopa>>>Rake. If we go the... more inactive route, He-man would also be someone I'd vote.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

I'm on my phone but uuuh I have a gif for Kanty on him suggesting this is a CC situation.

Like reaaaaaally?

Basically my reaction.

Anyways, if I get my coffee I'll be in a Mafia mood and I'll respond to some qualms it seems people have. However I am still kind of surprised Sang of all people is the most active behind myself.

Speaking of, Sang, get your shifty eyes away from me. I will bonk you.

I really don't think I'm all that active, tbh, but okay (unless I misread what you said, which is possible. I'm so tired). And, mayyyybe. Give me a Day to get more comfortable with your slot and we'll see. :D

 

[Kantrip]

J's buddying of Sang has gotten to sickening levels.
Joey's thoughts always mirroring mine is both flattering and disconcerting.

Joey can you pull up explanations of your soup read to respond to Ran? I don't have time to do it for you, nor should I need to.

 

[Dooms]

Joey can you pull up explanations of your soup read to respond to Ran? I don't have time to do it for you, nor should I need to.

You're making me respond to the guy that said he doesn't want to "go in circles" with me anymore? Boo, you *****.

Soup was giving subpar meta reasoning to null-scum read Koops that couldn't progress the game and couldn't be debated. You can't debate with "I felt Koops was a little less inclined to make idle comments like he has that I don't really feel are necessary." because it's literally just a close-minded meta opinion. Our thoughts on Koops are completely different, not similar.

The closest thing I have to a scum read is Soup tbh. His play in regards to Koops didn't show anything legitimate (especially when Koops play at the time was lacking in any scum intent what-so-ever), and his summary of Kantrip's argument is very misinforming and lacking. With the way he has been playing so far, I really can't justify what he has done as scum hunting because of how poorly he has defined his suspicions.

I have already explained that his observation of Koops was legitimate, and it reflects in Koops play now.

It didn't reflect in Koops play in the slightest in RVS, though... You know... Where he made the post? Koops was one of the more active players early-on, and he was bouncing questions around and making a lot of statements in RVS (more-so than most players).

It's not the fact that it was or wasn't a legitimate read (even though it was pretty sub-par if it was, considering that Koops had done literally nothing at that point in the game aside from RVS post and bounce questions around), it was the fact that he was shutting down discussion on his own contribution by giving a purely meta-based read that no one else can contribute towards + pretty much dropping it after that.

 

[TheKingofKoopas]

I'm responding now, I'm just making a huge post and it's taking me a while.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

*role cop
i think i fudged what soup claimed. I was reading in a rush, either way i feel the points still valid

 

[Kantrip]

You're making me respond to the guy that said he doesn't want to "go in circles" with me anymore? Boo, you *****.







It didn't reflect in Koops play in the slightest in RVS, though... You know... Where he made the post? Koops was one of the more active players early-on, and he was bouncing questions around and making a lot of statements in RVS (more-so than most players).

It's not the fact that it was or wasn't a legitimate read (even though it was pretty sub-par if it was, considering that Koops had done literally nothing at that point in the game aside from RVS post and bounce questions around), it was the fact that he was shutting down discussion on his own contribution by giving a purely meta-based read that no one else can contribute towards + pretty much dropping it after that.

Was that the only point you brought up against soup?

 

[#HBC | J]

Hey Kanty, I'll buddy Sang and still lynch her if it came down to it. We literally play this game sitting 10 ft. from each other sometimes because we are IRL best friends. Yet, I think in the last series of posts Sang was more buddy than I was.

Also I'm gonna cool it regarding asking tHe-man to respond considering some things I just got news to and that slot should probably just be quietly replaced at this juncture because I doubt either player is going to be coming and should be playing mafia at any extant soon due to IRL reasons.

I'm here and at my laptop so let's figure out who we are lynching in 3 hours since 7 people are viewing.

 

[ranmaru]

Soup didn't shut down discussion with his opinion, and nor does him using meta prevent anyone from contributing to that. I think if he were right it'd be a problem for his scummates to argue against, though. I brought up Joey's points in my #566.

I'll be here.

 

[#HBC | J]

Ya'll who wanna lynch Ranmaru still. Why are none of you really pointing out reasons for why Ranmaru's posts hold scum-intent and still focusing on Soup or his claim? What Soup did was grimy and unethical, but that's Soup's playstyle which is known to his wagoners. What makes his lynch better than that of others? I have failed to see the logic behind lynching SoupMaru besides the fact of "omg Soup is so scummy" which is fair and I won't back down from saying that slot was grimy as hell when Soup when full blown AtE/replace out, but again why is no one talking about Ranmaru?

If I am being honest, Ranmaru has definitely got some points thrown his way for his posts and I like some of the avenues he is pushing like Kary/Joey. I don't necessarily think the Red Ryu angle is that of one I wanna look at, but that's because my PoE is looking vastly different then some people in this game. I'll probably divulge that much before the day-phase is over since I am in a typing frenzy and also just kind of tired of waiting for other people to do something, but if I need to control and lead this game then so be it.

Problem is for me to lead a game, I need a lynch to occur and a death to see if I am on the right trail and re-evaluate. Currently this game is sitting at 15 pages with a lot of droning on about the same topics or people trying to start new topics and then the same groups stay with the same groups. This game has a clear divide as to who is on what side on a lot of issues. Speaking of someone I thought was around more than he isn't, has anyone heard from @Jdietz43 in a while?

Basically here's what my investigation pool looks like and who I would be okay with lynching at this Day-end.

Rake/Kary/Gheb/Joey in no particular order and I'm okay with any of them going.
Second tier of people that would be alright is Kanty/Soup. This tier is mainly the "Could go either way, but their info flip would be beneficial as well regardless"

Everyone else in the game is fine for D1 and still requires some more intel before I 100% determine if I like them or not. This pile consists of Sang/Ditzy/Sparky/Koopy/Ruy and myself. Not including tHe-Man in this pile because they are getting replaced.

I'm keeping my cards close to my hand is because I have not been necessarily given a rhyme nor reason to reveal what I am thinking. I've been vague on two of my pushes to see reactions and they seem to net what I am looking for regarding those slots.

 

[Kantrip]

J I literally have explained why I don't like Ran twice now.

 

[Dooms]

That is actually all I have on Soup aside from me having general distaste towards his posts.

I haven't commented on Ranmaru because I'm hella biased against him because what he's saying is silly to respond to when he says all I've done is focus on RVS + he's being Ranmaru (aka posts the same opinions until you accept them as fact) and I haven't been mentally sound enough to not blow up due to irl stuff (which sucks because deadline, but that's life I guess).

 

[#HBC | J]

J I literally have explained why I don't like Ran twice now.

You've explained that you find him fluffy and his scum-reads being not fully represented which is kind of throwaway comments and I will agree with him that you do have scum-goggles on him a bit and there is nothing wrong with that because it's a fair point of view to have with a slot you were so gung-ho about lynching and then the replacement comes in. It's easier to just say "Well nope to the replacement, I'm sticking to my guns." and I feel you have confirmation bias which is highlighted by your attempt to push the CC thing (regardless of how you said you were looking at it, that was messed up as hell from a town PoV to suggest this) which actually set off some red flags for me because that was your first pretty scummy move this game minus your whack vote on me in the beginning.

You are stretching for reasons to keep your Soup's slot scum-read and knock down what Ranmaru is saying without really giving it a fair chance which is disconcerting to me. I think you do have a bias, but your denial of it is a bit stranger than all else to me.

Sadly, this is in line with a lot of your play this game which is strange and a whole lot not making a lot sense. *shrug*

 

[TheKingofKoopas]

Every time I look at this game and how much of a headache it's giving me less motivation, yet the less motivated I am the more I feel bad for just being another inactive player, so lets just get this over with.

how does this partnership make sense at all. I call the highest level of bull on this read, why would i have him come save my sinking ship at all.

I said it seems to make sense. I thought that Spak trying to make less of a deal about your wagon meant it could be possible. Now that Spak is mess less of a scum read to me, you and Gheb just looks a hell of a lot more plausible.

he deserves to be scum read. he has 0 town intent in his posts. he has no reason to vote me beyond me being a popular wagon to hide behind

I voted for you because I thought you had more of a chance of being scummy than Soup did (considering Soup has also rushed out of RVS, had everything think he was scummy AND claimed in the last game were in, ended up being town.) We would get as much information off your lynch as Soup's, and I kept the vote because I honestly wanted to give Ran more of a chance.

Dooms : More than Kary at that point, who was hosting a church service, while Soup was giving legitimate opinions. His opinions don't come off as forced, while your argument against soup does. Your argument also becomes redudant. What I get from his #96 is that Koop didn't feel like posting as much, because he doesn't have the motivation too, therefore being lazy. This is a legitimate observation, and notice how Koops is currently absent, and I have no read on him. What is your opinion of him? (This will be the last time I go in circles with you, I think I explained my point enough)

TheKingofKoopas : What is your opinion of Joey, and his push on Soup? Can you give some context, as I don't know what alignment you were in the other game. What are your scumreads?

The past few games I've been on I always ended up dropping out of because I've been crazy busy with work from my classes. Honestly, the last game I joined was my "last straw" and I was just gonna stop, I joined this one because it's winter break for an entire month. I was scum in the first game where I was actually a little bit more active than the last two where I was town.

As for Joey, I just understand his push. I didn't agree with it as Soup had shown before that he was one to rush out of RVS, but since this was Joey's first game in a while he probably didn't see the last few games where Soup did that.



The more I keep reading, the more fried my brain gets. I'm fairly certain it's just from stress at the moment, but the more I read, the more scrambled my thoughts are. This day was a huge mess and it's only the first day of the game.
I have no idea who we're lynching now because new names just keep flying into the mix and nobody can seem to agree on one person (including myself) so I'll throw a new name in.

I don't like Gheb. He hasn't done anything "substantial" until it was mentioned that he didn't do much where he then proceeded to make three long posts about his reads. His scum reads mirror that of Rake's, and his entire reason to vote me was just contradictory to himself.

Vote: Gheb01

 

[Dooms]

I kinda hate to be that guy (only kind of because this game hasn't been enjoyable in any form what-so-ever and just made me really regret playing mafia), but can we just lynch me?

Shot myself in the foot from the get-go with a bad introduction post, wasn't able to grasp the game because a lot of how players were playing didn't come across as suspicious to me, and now I'm in a position where I'm literally clueless as to what to do. I don't think I can get subbed being the 4th person on the sub list (nor would I want anyone to sub into this slot), so I'd highly prefer to just get lynched.

I'd like to try mafia again when I'm not going through bad depression, but I don't think that'll happen anytime soon. Sorry guys. :/

 

[TheKingofKoopas]

.....Not to that extent, but I was gonna say something similar.
Day 1 just felt like a cluster**** and it's just getting so hard to concentrate on right now. I just want the day to end.

 

[#HBC | J]

Listen, I get that IRL things get in the way and I get that a lot of people are just not feeling this game at all, but I'm kind of getting tired of people moping around and blaming inactivity or just replacing out or all that jazz. We all made a commitment to Bardull, we all made a commitment to each other, and all we made a commitment to play this game. I find it quite shocking since the community had been doing so well to just have a bunch of people just stop and leave in the middle of a game or just grrr, this is aggravating.

Mave/Soup/tHe-Man and that's 3 replacements on D1. Plus the game is riddles with inactivity that players, themselves, are commenting on it and I am getting a tad flustered to not just metaphorical slap some sense into some people regarding mafia etiquette and other things, but that soap-box tirade is not something for this game. If one more person does come into this game and says "Just lynch me/blah blah blah." I'm gonna have an aneurysm.

What everyone needs is this Day-Phase to be over and we seriously need to stop waiting till the deadline to lynch someone just because "Use all the time to discuss". There is nothing wrong with lynching someone after 3-4 days of discussion instead of having a full week of discussion and this game is just proof in itself.

So let's settle on a lynch in these 2 hours and get it over with and move onto the night-phase so ya'll can take a breathe from mafia, recollect your thoughts, and come ready to actually play the game starting on D2. This is why we shouldn't have had an extension.

ToDay has 3 options it seems which are Rake/SoupMaru/Koopy. If your vote isn't on any of these three names, they need to change because these are the only 3 can that can plausibly happen in the hours (fight me saying any other name can be achieved with 7 votes in such a short time). If someone honestly thinks a new candidate can be decided upon in 2 hours and 20 minutes, then so be it. Till then, I am gonna say lynch one of these three and let's go from there.

 

[ranmaru]

Joey, how about stepping back and actually analyzing my play. I just feel from my point of view, that I don't think town would consider ignoring a person replacing in because that wouldn't help them have a good read on the slot. I want to see your updated thoughts on Koops as well. I agree with J that **** gets real, but we are making a commitment. Plus I'm not a douchebag so I'm sorry if I make you feel anyway. If you want post-game we can talk mafia. Feel better man.

 

[TheKingofKoopas]

I agree, and fully apologize for acting like a spoil-sport at all. It is just hard for me to concentrate right now.

I'm gonna keep my vote on Gheb because I feel like this is legitimate. I'll be up for another few hours so if it doesn't get close I'll switch my vote. If everyone votes me, I'll be a good sport about it.

 

[Dooms]

I also apologize, but I still stand by what I stated. If I don't get lynched, I will probably be a fourth subbed slot, and forcing any player to sub into this slot + role would be disgusting (more-so than getting my slot lynched imo).

Vote: Joey

Not moving my vote. Sorry Bardull. Amazing flavor, interesting role, sub-par game, garbage player.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

this only gets more interestin

 

[#HBC | J]

I just did a super-quick re-vote count and this is what it looks like

Rake (4): J/Ditzy/Gheb/Kary
Koopy (2): Rake/Ranmaru
SoupMaru (2): Kanty/Red Ryu
Gheb (1): Koopy
Ditzy (1): tHe-Man
Joey (1): Joey

Not voting: Sang/Sparky

I'm sorry I'm trying to do this really fast so BarDulL a vote-count would be lovely please and thanks. So we know we can't move Gheb/Kary since they are European and not here with us at this hour. Ditzy is MIA. Sang is around, Rake is around, Ran is around, Joey is around, Kanty is here, Koopy said he is here, I'm here. Sparky/RR are MIA and tHe-man is...well known. We have 7 people here and can do a wagon snap to anyone not actually here and who we can vote.

I want a lynch to occur so I am very malleable at this point. We have two claims from Rake/SoupMaru, we can still acquire a lynch, but we MUST work together as a team to accomplish this.

 

[#HBC | J]

SangfroidWarrior

Put down my vita and get in here for a bit. I need your thoughts on a lynch like now especially with deadline looming so close.

 

[Kantrip]

We have 5 hours?

 

[Dooms]

Yeah it's 3 AM EST. 12 AM PST

 

[#HBC | J]

Did not see the PST in the title haha.

Regardless 2 hours and 5 hours does not really mean much considering what time of night it is going to start becoming for a lot of us. I don't think everyone plans to be up that late and also settling things sooner and striking some urgency is much better than being lazy and flippant regarding how close the deadline is.

Plus it seems to get anyone to vote a wagon past 4 votes is like pulling teeth this game so excuse me if I seem a little more pushy regarding what we need to do.

 

[Spak]

kk, I'm here and reading from beneath the covers at my grandmother's house. I'll probably go to bed in the next half hour, intentionally or not, so I'd better make a quick decision.

 

[#HBC | J]

You need to decide where your vote lies considering you and Sang are currently swing voters in the dilemma of what can happen toNight. Pretty much the entire player list is open with everyone here in the thread.

 

[#HBC | J]

*Tonight, not toNight.

So many times of typing toDay in my last couple of posts haha.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Sorry, my internet is shoddy right now because my brother is insistent on playing CoD while my parents run netflix and whatnot. (Also danganronpa is getting intense).

Honestly, I agree that this day should just be over, as I've stated a few times that my brain is just fried. A night phase gives me time to re-read and recollect my thoughts. I understand that this game has been pretty stressful and not fun for a lot of people, but I really think everyone should stick it out if they can. I'm sorry for the people that have been feeling that way and I don't know what the source is, but this should just be a fun game and if it's not we all just need to step back.

That being said, we do need a lynch toDay, no matter who it is. It does need to be somebody that can actually garner support, so Gheb (I'm looking at you Koops) is not a good lynch for the Day, IMO, as so few people have stated support or suspicion of his slot. Also, there's gotta be somebody lynched D1. I understand being salty about it if it's you (general you) but it's gotta happen.

I don't want Joey to go because I want more from him, but if it's that or another replacement I'd rather lynch him, tbh. I don't want Rake at the moment, and as I've stated SoupMaru is less than ideal for me but I will vote for either if I have to.

I'll be here until deadline/lynch or whatever but for now, I didn't realize I hadn't voted so...

Vote: TheKingofKoopas

 

[#HBC | J]

Sang, what changed your mind specifically on Rake? You were the one who started that wagon so consider me perplexed as to why Koopy rings a better lynch than Rake.

Regardless of where my vote/thoughts may go, I still find you switching interesting to talk about at this hour before flips happen.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

J, talk to me. Are you still down for a Rake lynch? Why? I want a second opinion on this, if you don't mind.

 

[Dooms]

I'm Chara. I'm a survivor (except worse!) + 1-shot doc and I have a 1-shot vote thing where I can make the vote go between two people on Day 2 or 3. I have to keep myself and Frisk alive until endgame. I know who Frisk is and I know they're town, but obviously I won't be posting who that is.

I highly recommend voting me. I would NOT waste a replacement on a worse version of a survivor (especially with my play) because that is the biggest **** move to a player subbing into a game imo, but I'm definitely not posting in this thread after D1, either.

If for some reason you can't get the votes on me, I'll be around for deadline, but it really shouldn't be hard to get me lynched.