Undertale Mafia, 13 man! Game over! Town wins!

[ranmaru]

Ok. What exactly did you receive from the mod though, setup information or a night action? Can you paraphrase what he said?

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

I literally just did lol. That's what I got from the mod. some flavor about various doo dads and how through them i found out kantrip was killed by a robot

 

[ranmaru]

Ok. So Rake, what is your conclusion from my #679?

 

[ranmaru]

EBWOP: #674.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Reading back through the game I noticed you were arguing Rake vs Koops to be TvT? Do you still believe that to be the case / why? I still think the points I held in Rake's favor are valid but I may have given Koops a harder time than he deserved.

I did mention Koops vs Rake, but I didn't say it was T v T. I asked whether anyone thought that. I found their interaction interesting because they were each scumreading the other. I am on the fence about both slots at the moment, they have points in both columns in my opinion. The reason I brought it up was because I find it hard to believe both are scum. Am I right in saying you think they might be?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

In other news, I completely agree the JDietz needs more attention.

J continues to say I am scummy without providing ANY reason whatsoever.

From re-reading, I felt that a Rake flip would actually tell me a lot about this game, but I am not trying to shoehorn him into the lynch just yet. Shun Goku Satsu Rake I would like to hear more about your reads today, particularly your scumreads.

I am currently posting from a potato and it is quite uncomfortable. I will be more active when I am not away.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

ranmaru who is your #2 pick for scum after Gheb?

#HBC | Red Ryu who is your #2 pick for scum after Ranmaru? With reasoning please.

Just to clarify my point about Rake above, what I am trying to say is that I think the waggon was interesting. I don't have my notes with me, but yeah, look at the waggon.

Also, IIRC, Kantrip posted a reads list before he died. That's also something worth looking into.

Ok, I'm out for now.

Vote: J

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I did mention Koops vs Rake, but I didn't say it was T v T. I asked whether anyone thought that.

[...]

The reason I brought it up was because I find it hard to believe both are scum. Am I right in saying you think they might be?

I'm really at a loss when it comes to their relationship. I wanna say SvS is pretty unlikely but honestly, neither has been playing a really solid pro-town game that would justify a solid pro-town read. At this point their interaction could be almost everything and I was actually hoping that you'd have some ideas considering you specifically mentioned them two. But you're right, you were only asking. I guess I was reading it as something along the lines of "does anybody else think it's TvT".

Oh well, I still don't know what to think of them.

 

[ranmaru]

#HBC | Kary : I will answer you soon, please wait.

Shun Goku Satsu Rake : Can you respond to my #674?

 

[ranmaru]

I don't understand the J votes, though. I agree with Sangroid that Gheb's J vote is out of place and doesn't match with his request. I don't understand why Kary also thinks that is a worthwhile vote. A concern yes but not enough for a vote. I also don't believe Gheb doesn't have any idea on what Rake has been doing lately. (I do have an idea) I'm wondering as to why Ryu reads up yet doesn't even continue to talk with me. He just plops his vote on me and sits there.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I also don't believe Gheb doesn't have any idea on what Rake has been doing lately.

... did I ever say such a thing?

 

[ranmaru]

I misunderstood you saying that you had no idea on them.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I mean, if you want people to buy your scum read on me it wouldn't be a bad idea to actually read my posts before posting.

 

[ranmaru]

Well, do you have any comments on my wagon? Any other reads?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

But since nobody's really talking about anything relevant right now I'll just talk about stuff that I think matters I guess ... one thing that bugs me is that nobody's pushing Rake toDay yet. YesterDay everybody jumped on his throat and now nobody cares about him anymore because ... ? He really hasn't changed his play one bit yet now nobody seems to be interested in lynching him anymore?

That's what I meant when I said I'm calling BS on a lot of people's reads from yesterDay. You can't earnestly expect me to buy that the guy who supposedly was almost everybody's top scum read now is suddenly off the hook. Neither Joey's nor Kantrip's flip can really have much of an impact here. So what's the deal?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Well, do you have any comments on my wagon? Any other reads?

I wouldn't say people are really wagoning you though. Isn't it only like ... Ryu and somebody else voting you at the moment? I think it's him and Rake. And it doesn't look like they're trying to actually convince people that you should be voted. Can't really say too much about it other than that ... I don't particularly care about it. At least unless somebody gives me a reason to.

 

[ranmaru]

Did anyone say he was off the hook today? Also, I know, I just was wondering what you thought of it at this time.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Did anyone say he was off the hook today?

Does it matter what people say?

What matters is that all of a sudden people just don't push him anymore when the only reason he's alive in the first place is the fact that a scumbag claimed. I mean, come one dude, how the hell does it make sense that nobody has brought up his name as a lynch candidate for toDay yet when you look at these facts?

 

[ranmaru]

Possibly because people are either re-reading or asking him questions to develop their reads on him. Since Joey flipped 3p, it hasn't really helped develop our reads because there would be no connection. This is like an extended D1. Why haven't you re-read?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

... I have?

 

[BarDulL]

Power is currently off, will give a vote count when it comes back on.

 

[ranmaru]

I'm actually mighty curious about what the people that wanted him lynched yesterDay have to say about him now first and foremost.

I just want to know why you are wondering about the people who were pushing for him. You don't seem to town read him (you are on the fence on him, saying he can die), and you don't seem to have a solid read on his wagoners either, which makes wanting his wagoners to elaborate not make sense. (If you were unsure of Rake, why not interact with him and ask him questions?) I actually want you to go more into his wagoners and what you think about them, and how asking about it helps you. What are your concerns of J?

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

[First, sorry for the wall. Second, I won't do this at the start of every Day, I promise. I just think this is more appropriate for this point in the game]

Alright, so I've finished my re-read (and have almost 4000 words of notes, which is why it took so long... I guess all of those research papers are finally paying off). Overall, Day 1 was definitely a huge cluster of multiple things happening but, in the end, nothing really happened at all. I'll start with my reads, I guess (brief explanations under spoiler tag thingy).

Town/leaning town: Spak, Ran
Slightly leaning town: J
Null, with a possibility of leaning town: JDietz
True null: tHe-Man/Glyph, Rake
Null, with a possibility of leaning scum: RR
Slightly leaning scum: Gheb
Leaning scum: Koops, Kary

Spoiler: Reads Explanations

Spak - after re-reading, his focus on Kary's church does seem to come less from a scum standpoint of trying to get us off-topic and more from a town standpoint of trying to feel Kary out, who hadn't really done much beyond that. Not a good way, IMO, to go about it, but his large post (379?) makes me really see him as town, as does his play following it. Probably my strongest town read.

Ran - Soup's play notwithstanding, Ran makes me really comfortable with this slot because I can really see his thought process and it looks less like him just trying to save his slot and more like him trying to get town talking and actively working to find scum. This is in contrast to Kary who stated that people weren't doing anything but didn't really try to get people to do anything.

J - Excluding his odd behavior, J has been very active in pointing out things that are relevant and helpful to town and (seemingly) attempting to work in town's favor. My main point against him, and the thing keeping me from having a higher town read on him, is that he has ignored (or glossed-over, as he said) questions from other people and hasn't explained his votes/opinions on some things.

JDietz - My read on JD is more null than town, because he did point out many things about Rake that I was thinking of and seemed more prepared for the push than I was, but he did nothing following that except something about being willing to switch to Soup, which I find very bizarre.

Rake - I have him as null because I keep going back and forth on his slot. No longer do I think that he's the biggest target, nor do I think he should be the biggest target, but the fact that he's truly null for me is concerning. I want to focus on him toDay to the extent that I want more from him so I can get a solid stance, but I'm not sure that that'd ever really happen. My points of him still stand from yesterDay, but I don't think that they're as pertinent now as they were then. Even as the Day went on, it looked like he was just inserting himself into situations that directly involved him and he didn't ever really comment on things that were actually happening. Then again, it did look like he was trying to work to get reads on people, and he did have a decent point about Koops (once he actually explained).

RR - To me, he has a possibility of leaning scum because he hasn't really... done much of anything. He made one post saying that he thinks that Soup should be the target of D1 and then keeps pushing soup's slot without being willing to compromise or really explaining or looking at other avenues. He's more null than scum, but we'll see as this Day goes on.

Gheb - I have Gheb as slightly leaning more scum than RR but not a solid scum lean because, as I've stated before, I have a hard time reading Gheb. For much of D1, he commented on things but didn't really make any hard stances, which looks like he was trying to keep his options open. While this is slightly normal for the time, it looked like he was attempting to dodge all things that would force him to state solid reads, looking very safe, maybe too safe. He then comes in with wanting a Koops lynch with somewhat flimsy reasons (albeit better than Rake's reasonings, at least at first), and then he doesn't really attempt to push for a Koops wagon. Even for toDay it doesn't look like he's really giving any solid stances for anything. I think Gheb could stand to have more pressure for the Day.

Koops - Him and Kary are on the same level of scum reads for me. Like with Gheb, he comes in a lot but doesn't really do much of anything. To start, his response to Kary's church seems very nonchalant. Like, he pushes it off without even giving it much thought. Most of the things that I've seen from him are things that other people have stated previously, like with Kantrip's vote seeming scummy or saying that Spak and Rake are his biggest scum reads at a time they were getting pressure from multiple other people. Also, a lot of what he's done seems like he's just trying to make it seem like he's doing things without actually really doing anything. Like he's coasting along. (Although he's said he's done this because he's getting tired of the game, I still find it really scummy).

Kary - As somebody else has said, a lot of what she has done seems very opportunistic, like... she sees something she either slightly agrees with or that might lead to an avenue that will get the most support. I have in my notes that I get the sense that she's just skimming through and nitpicking things that make hardly any sense and using them to throw suspicion at people or ask questions (I have 361 down as an example). She votes Koops without giving any real reason (at least from what I saw) and then doesn't really explain anything about her suspicion of J. Another point against her for me is that she continuously says that people aren't doing enough but then doesn't really attempt to do anything about it.

I realize this looks really nice and neat, but I will say that I'm honestly just super confused about everything. I do want to look into Kary, Koops, and even Gheb toDay, but I also want to see more from RR and Rake. That's half the playerlist, which I am really not comfortable with, but I guess that's just part of it being the start of D2?

Right now my biggest problem is that I think there was something fishy going on earlier in the Day, between J and Kantrip, and to a lesser extent, Joey and Soup. It seems as though that has all blown over now and no-one has anything to say about it, but I find it hard to believe that the whole thing, all of it, was TvT.

Kary, if you've re-read, would you mind coming back to this and explaining more of your thought process from D1?

When looking at this pile of names I think the ones that stand out more for me is Ditzy on the scummy intent and then I would defintiely want to look at one of Rake/Gheb.

Rake/Koopy/Gheb hold weird things from me for the beginning of the game and I would say Ditzy lost a view points on a Kanty town-flip but not enough to make me more him from my town-lean pile. Just lower on that totem pole.

I want to get this straight because this post from you is a bit confusing to me. You think that, at the beginning for J v Kanty, out of the people thinking Kanty is scum you have Dietz for more scum intent but then still have him in your town-lean? Can you explain that a little bit? Also, can you explain your Kary vote from D1?

Also, I call BS on anybody towenreading Dietz during Day 1. That slot has done virtually nothing that warrants pro-town credit. I actually BS on a lot of reads people threw out yesterDay, I will likely point them out when I consider it relevant.

Gheb, can you explain your read on Dietz for me? What do you mean he's done nothing that warrants pro-town credit?

Still want the Soup slot dead. Will reread stuff around Kantrip.

Who else are you looking into? Why do you still want the Soup slot (now effectively Ran) dead?

ranmaru Does this answer your question(s)?

@Spak What is your opinion on Kary toDay?

@TheKingofKoopas Do you still want to look into Gheb, Kary, and J toDay? (I got this from your 619)

 

[ranmaru]

Yes it does and it has given me your entire thought process, thank you. Good stuff, and I hope you have a second monitor to help you write in one section and view with the other. If you have any questions I am willing to answer as well.

 

[ranmaru]

I also agree with the J town read and am interested in his input. I'd need to see more of JD before I develop a read on him. I am also still waiting on Rake's response to my #674. Red Ryu's play is odd, and to me comes off as super anti-town rather than suspicious at this point.

 

[Jdietz43]

I'm back from my vacation now, need to read the end of D1 and D2 so far. Will post thoughts later tonight after I finish reading everything.

 

[Jdietz43]

Alright, I'm not even going to pretend I fully read most of that, I think I'll get better results just plopping into toDay and continuing from there.

Apologies for disappearing without a more explicit V/LA, I lose access at the start of Christmas vacation to travel before Christmas Eve, but I thought deadline was set to line up with when I would lose access already. If I had known there'd be an extension I at least would have said I couldn't be present for it.

 

[ranmaru]

Just give me thoughts on Gheb and Rake, JD. Start with that.

 

[Jdietz43]

I just thought the flavor might be relevant really. you never know if scum won't just name claim and claim a townie role, i do it as scum alot so if we can catch someone on that, it'd be nice, especially if ran's really a role cop that makes for a nice little two for one. Also, i didn't really want to out that info cause i was actually gonna suggest a flavour claim today. Like, it doesnt hurt us to do, doesn't side track the thread and really idk why anyone would oppose flavor revealing. I feel like this is a strong idea today. What do you think ? would you support a flavor claim wave over the thread ? why or why not

I don't feel comfortable with that at all after Joey explicitly told us Chara is town, we'd be outing someone as a NK target immediately solely based on your claim. You're role and flavorfishing too much.

Vote: Rake

 

[Jdietz43]

Just give me thoughts on Gheb and Rake, JD. Start with that.

I think asking J those questions is fine, I don't see why he's getting your ire for putting a vote behind it since they were getting ignored (as J admits). He's been Gheb otherwise, and there's a lot to Gheb about in this playerlist. We'll see.

I don't see a reason not to continue where I left off with Rake. I skimmed pretty hard, but I didn't see any reason not to, and that above ask for a mass flavorclaim gives me the worst feelings. After Joey's revelation and the existence of a flavorcop that makes me think flavor is a valuable commodity and something we shouldn't be casually asking for, especially not if the driving reason is the claim of yesterday's chief wagon.

 

[Jdietz43]

ran why did you cjeck dietz. like your most logical cjoice shouod have been to check me. I literally just role and flavor claimed yesterday. I like it very little your claiming rb but that im willing to live with but im not willing to allow you to say you choose dietz of all people when you were barely on my side that i recall yesterday and i was the largest and most talked abut topic. No kame gutsu on that

vote ran

also, ryu was town in fea so saying yu got a fea vibe is hilarious

Do you find Ran or Koopa more scummy at this point Rake?

Is Koopa still a priority?

 

[Jdietz43]

Does it matter what people say?

What matters is that all of a sudden people just don't push him anymore when the only reason he's alive in the first place is the fact that a scumbag claimed. I mean, come one dude, how the hell does it make sense that nobody has brought up his name as a lynch candidate for toDay yet when you look at these facts?

I'mma ask the same here, is J the most scummy for you or are you just looking for his answers?

You're talking a lot about people who push Rake but not about Rake or what you think of the push. Is it not a path worth pursuing?

 

[ranmaru]

Read my #634. Like for Kary, I can understand there being a concern. Yet Gheb states he has other concerns on J when he still has yet to post those. Now if it's only for pressure I can understand, but I don't know that until Gheb outs his other concerns.

 

[Jdietz43]

Read my #634. Like for Kary, I can understand there being a concern. Yet Gheb states he has other concerns on J when he still has yet to post those. Now if it's only for pressure I can understand, but I don't know that until Gheb outs his other concerns.

We'll see what Gheb says about J then.


What do you make of Rake voting you (and Rake in general?)

 

[ranmaru]

I find it opportunistic. I dislike him. I'll give a more in-depth read on him once he responds to my #674 and to you.

 

[ranmaru]

JD, opinion on Kary and Red Ryu?

 

[ranmaru]

Keep in mind Red Ryu viewed earlier, for a bit and didn't post. Please get in here:

#HBC | Red Ryu
Shun Goku Satsu Rake

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Keep in mind Red Ryu viewed earlier, for a bit and didn't post. Please get in here:

#HBC | Red Ryu
Shun Goku Satsu Rake

http://challonge.com/ASCLucario1

This is why I haven't posted.

 

[ranmaru]

Got it. I assume you are V/LA (don't know till when though) as well then. See you soon then.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

I'm still on a potato so I can't properly respond to things. It will happen tomorrow.

ranmaru I expect you to explain the delay in answering, when you answer my question.