Trying to Avoid Jab Resets

[AlcyoNite]

First money mike tried doing it against me and then i see mango using it against m2k

How are Falcon's attempting to get out of Jab resets and jump out? What is this new-fangled technique?

u all know what im talking about or must i link?

 

[unknown522]

SDI the jab up below 32. ASDI the jab up after 32.

Fails if they react to the non-tech and follow the roll, cc the wakeup attack, follow the stand, or hit you immediately with tilt or whatever.

 

[AlcyoNite]

makes sense. when did people start doing this? and is it useful for characters besides falcon?

 

[The Irish Mafia]

Best example of this is m2k vs mango, as you said. M2K, as usual, is a step ahead, though.

 

[Windrose]

What are you guys talking about? I want to know =( <-- beginner.

 

[Jellatin]

errr im sorry a really probably basic thing i should know but
whats asdi and sdi and how do i do it? are they different types of di? o_o

 

[Pi]

errr im sorry a really probably basic thing i should know but
whats asdi and sdi and how do i do it? are they different types of di? o_o

S(mash)DI can be inputted DURING each frame of hit stun
A(utomatic)S(smash)DI is read the frame AFTER hitstun, and is only read for 1 frame.

SDI will move you in the direction you press for that frame of hitstun, the same amount as ASDI will after hitstun is over.

 

[FoxLisk]

if the DI/SDI/ASDI thread isn't stickied in melee discussion, it should be... if it is, go read it. otherwise i or someone else will give you a link later... im too lazy right now. basically hit up right as you get jabbed and shieks only have like 4 options instead of like 10.

 

[PEEF!]

So by SDIing or ASDIing you can chose how you get up. Is that all?

 

[Magus420]

Nah, by A/SDIing up you can jump out or land on your feet in normal air to ground landing lag. Whether you can choose your getup or are forced into stand only when you don't successfully avoid the reset is based on the hitstun (knockback).

 

[PEEF!]

So was the rest of Unknowns post right (about the %?)

 

[n0ne]

yup what magus said. just hold up before the jab and youll be on your feet. even if your on 0%.
%age does not matter. but magus how come when u wanna jab reset a spacie, even after u jab them, they can still roll either way or getup attack (GAAAY)
So far jab reseting only works on falcon and ganon. Bowser I think also and marth. Can someone verify.?

 

[PEEF!]

yup what magus said. just hold up before the jab and youll be on your feet. even if your on 0%.
%age does not matter. but magus how come when u wanna jab reset a spacie, even after u jab them, they can still roll either way or getup attack (GAAAY)
So far jab reseting only works on falcon and ganon. Bowser I think also and marth. Can someone verify.?

I can verify that at least some if not most of what you said is wrong.

 

[Magus420]

The first thing Unknown said is if they do jab you when you don't tech. If you get jabbed by Sheik above around 32% on a non-tech you can hold up to get high enough from the jab that you avoid the reset. Below that, you will need to SDI her jab.

The 2nd part was if they don't jab. They don't need to jab you to be able to punish a non-tech, so it's not some kind of solution to escaping Sheik's techchasing.

When talking about CF's jab reset on FFers, if they're able to roll and attack it's because his jab has more KB/hitstun. It's not a universal thing that you can always go by percentages. Jigglypuff's jab for example has weaker KB and doesn't let them roll/attack until like 80-90 or something really high. Peach's jab has fixed KB and doesn't allow people heavier than Falco/Pikachu to ever roll/attack at any dmg, but anyone that weight or lighter will always be able to.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Magus, can you shield get-up attacks on reaction vs Fox, Falco, Falcon with Sheik instead of doing the crouch? Or are the animations not distinct enough from one another?

 

[Magus420]

It might be, but it'd be extremely difficult if it is. Some are pretty easy depending on if they land behind you and are on their back/stomach, since with the exception of CF's getup attack on his back (spin kick which hits both sides at once) they hit on one side before hitting on the other. Also, if you end up powershielding it the extra pushback can sometimes mess it up.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I see. The powershielding thing is often a problem.

I'm bad at dashing backwards out of crouch. Do you have any advice on how to do that? I find if I tilt the stick slightly forward it becomes easier to dash backwards but that has the issue of messing up forward dashes, which is not really an improvement. Any pointers? Or should I just continue to practice?

 

[JPOBS]

so falco can always roll out of peachs jab regardless of percents?

the more you know!!!

 

[KirbyKaze]

Peach's jab being set knockback would be so much better if it was Jigglypuff jab weak.

 

[Magus420]

Yeah, that's the exact same problem I've always had with it. Sucks to see their roll behind but just sit there and grab in place cuz the dash didn't want to go through. Besides just smashing it as hard as you can in the direction you want, not really, since I know it is definitely possible to register a dash in either direction from straight down at a single starting point only it's picky about how fast you get it there. It's similar to when using Peach I'll try to seamlessly do an insta-float FF n-air to dash backwards. I need to really smash the thing when going from the down position to behind to get the dash to reliably go through.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Well, thank you for your time. There's no way to cheat this by like dashing forward then back (dash dance) or anything, is there? No shortcuts?

 

[Magus420]

You could try DDing, but it wastes at least like 6 frames or so since you can't turn around at the very beginning of your 1st dash, so in addition to the turn you'd normally be doing you'd dash like an extra 3 forward and 3 back to get to where you had started. Probably would be better off walking slightly or something.

 

[KirbyKaze]

God dammit.

Wavedash is too slow too.

 

[PEEF!]

Backwards shorthop>ff>grab?

idk.

oh wait ur sheik that won't work.... dsmash.

 

[n0ne]

OK, what i MEANT to say is if you are falcon and on the ground the only way to escape a jab reset is if u HOLD up before the jab... or if u teched the floor. but with spacies... on whatever % u are EVEN if u dont hold up, u can still roll or whatever after the jab. but i use mario too and he can jab reset too.. but with him i think its % dependent sometimes with some characters. thats why i asked someone to verify or correct me if im wrong.

 

[Magus420]

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=9872129&postcount=28

There's no special treatment for spacies. If the hitstun is above a certain point you can roll/attack. If it isn't you can't.

This is for Sheik's jab, and if their damage after the jab hit is at this percent or higher they can roll/attack. If it isn't they are forced to stand only.

Bowser .... 45
DK ........ 44
Samus ..... 44
Ganon ..... 43
Yoshi ..... 43
CF ........ 42
Link ...... 42
Dr Mario .. 42
Luigi ..... 42
Mario ..... 42
Ness ...... 40
Peach ..... 39
Sheik ..... 39
Zelda ..... 39
ICs ....... 39
Marth ..... 39
Mewtwo .... 38
Roy ....... 38
Y Link .... 38
Falco ..... 37
Pikachu ... 37
Fox ....... 36
Kirby ..... 35
Jiggs ..... 33
G&W ....... 33
Pichu ..... 32

^^ That's the option aspect of it which already assumes you are forced into a getup by being on the ground when the down damage animation (what you go into when hit by a move that does less than 7.00% during a bounce/laying on the ground) ends.


Depending on the strength of the vertical KB, your DI, and the character's fallspeed though that may not even happen. This is also for Sheik's jab, and if they hold up (ASDI) this is the damage after the hit they'll start getting high enough off the floor to avoid getting reset in the first place:

Fox ....... 71
Falco ..... 43
CF ........ 33
Sheik ..... 25
Roy ....... 20
DK ........ 19

^^You can escape earlier than that by SDIing up

 

[ChRed2AKrisp]

Wait why does ASDI make fox stand up until 70? ASDI makes things WORSE for him?

 

[Magus420]

?

ASDI doesn't make it worse for him. It just isn't a viable means of escape until much later than everyone else. On very weak knockbacks he reaches the ground much sooner than the rest of the cast because of his unusually high fall acceleration. He can roll/attack well before he can get high enough off the floor from the hit with ASDI to land on his feet.

 

[AlcyoNite]

?

ASDI doesn't make it worse for him. It just isn't a viable means of escape until much later than everyone else. On very weak knockbacks he reaches the ground much sooner than the rest of the cast because of his unusually high fall acceleration. He can roll/attack well before he can get high enough off the floor from the hit with ASDI to land on his feet.

i keep staring at ur avatar