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The Uniqueness Tier List: Captain Falcon, Robin, Lucina, Shulk, and Meta-Knight

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BluePikmin11

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So basically you can Back-Air many times while you jump in the air? That could be pretty neat. I just mainly see this as a problem who want to casually play as him. He has got to have great melee range and power to make up for the clunky physics.
 

Sobreviviente

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So basically you can Back-Air many times while you jump in the air? That could be pretty neat. I just mainly see this as a problem who want to casually play as him. He has got to have great melee range and power to make up for the clunky physics.
Just like in the old arcade days :awesome:
 

Tepig2000

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Paper Mario has lots of abilities. They are so many I won't list all of them because I might get really tired. Obvious S tier.

Jumpman gets a F.
 

YoshiandToad

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Jumpman, eh?

1. How many diverse options does this character have?
Well; he can...well, he's basically just Mario let's be honest. Except with a hammer. I guess you could make a pitch for those Oil Drums. But err...that's about it really.

2. Is their moves or abilities diverse from the rest of the Smash cast?
Again, it's Mario. With a hammer. Which Kirby, King Dedede, Ice Climbers and arguably Game and Watch have covered...and then there's the classic Hammer item which is based off Jumpman in the first place meaning EVERYONE has access to it.

3. Has the concept of the character been done before?
It's Mario. Classic Mario, but still Mario.

3a. If it has been done before, is the character's way of doing it unique on it's own.
I guess you could have him use more limited animation but...again, Game and Watch and Wario have already got that covered between them.

4. Does the character's abilities and moves provide enough to be entertaining?
As much as Dr. Mario was in Melee. Mario mains may love him, but that's it. Prime clone material.

5. How visually different is the character in terms of body shape and looks?
...he's ****ing Mario.

Alright, that's not QUITE fair. He's Mario with inverted colours and a slighty tweaked chin, stache and nose. Mario's already on the roster...in Melee he was on it twice. Arguably in the heat of combat you could mix him and Luigi up too.

6. Does the moves and abilities fit the character well enough?
Yes? I suppose so? I don't even know.

Unique rating: F-
He's Mario.
He has Mario's abilities plus a hammer(which isn't an underrepresented weapon at this point), minus FLUDD and cape. He's essentially worse than Ninten, because he is supposedly the same guy...and he doesn't even have pills to work with...or paper...

Paper Mario
1. How many diverse options does this character have?

More than Jumpman, although he does have a hammer still, he has a few other things going for him; being made of paper being the most obvious thing; Papes can easily fold himself into origami objects.
He also has access to partner characters; usually famous Mario species like Goombas, Koopa Troopas, Boos or Bob-Ombs, each with their own unique ability to pull from.
Could have a unique roll by rolling himself into a cardboard tube. Not the be all and end all, but it's a cute addition.

2. Is their moves or abilities diverse from the rest of the Smash cast?
Several are; partners for example give him plenty of diversity compared to others, in particular Mario himself.

3. Has the concept of the character been done before?Mario has been(obviously), and a flat character has been in the form of Game and Watch.

3a. If it has been done before, is the character's way of doing it unique on it's own.
However, Mr. Game and Watch's flatness appears to be purely aesthetic as he doesn't take advantage of said gimmick within gameplay. Mostly because G+W isn't paper.

4. Does the character's abilities and moves provide enough to be entertaining?
Depending on what is picked for his moveset; yes. However, it's worth noting that alternative versions of characters already on the roster have been clones in the past, and Papes COULD(shouldn't, but could) end up having paper fireballs, Sushi instead of FLUDD, flipping himself round like the cape and the jump punch. If this were his moveset it'd be uninspired to say the least, especially when he has such a large pool to work from.

Providing he used his partners I can see Paper Mario being incredibly fun to play as, but without them he loses some uniqueness and appeal.

5. How visually different is the character in terms of body shape and looks?
Honestly not as different as he could be, this is his biggest let down.
Obviously when you place Mario and Paper Mario side by side standing, the difference is obvious, but in the heat of battle it could still be quite easy to confuse the two. Again, the flatness is a thing Game and Watch has covered too.

6. Does the moves and abilities fit the character well enough?
All the above options do.

Uniqueness rating: A+. Not giving him a full S because he is after all still an alt of another character, and that character has already had two alt versions of himself, and Game and Watch still has the flatness thing covered. All that considered an A+ is still pretty impressive.
 

BluePikmin11

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Alrighty, that was a pretty fun discussion of Paper Mario we had. I'm glad we went indepth with it. ^_^

Today we are rating the last two plausible Mario candidates, Blue Toad and Bowser Jr.
Bowser Jr. has his paintbrush and his airships to aid him to his playstyle.
Toad has, superhuman strength and quick nimble speed.

Remember analyses are recommended, but grades are fine. ;)
Tagging @ Berserker. Berserker. @ YoshiandToad YoshiandToad @Pacack and @ Zzuxon Zzuxon for Blue Toad.
And tagging @ Mario & Sonic Guy Mario & Sonic Guy for Bowser Jr.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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Bowser Jr. gets an A in that his magic paintbrush could implement added effects to his attacks. The added effects would mostly consist of leaving behind damaging graffiti on opponents, and even leaving some graffiti on the ground for opponents to slip on.

People may think of Bowser Jr. as just a mere Bowser clone, but he's far from that when you take into account his technology reliance; Bowser is more of a man-to-man type of character most of the time.
 

Cpt.

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I think that the paintbrush could be all his special moves (it doesn't have to be though).

Each special move could be a different type of paint. You've got common, electric, lava, wall, poison, and the yellow force field.

Neutral B: Brush Swipe - Jr. paints over an enemy causing a random graffiti effect (lava, electric, common)
Side B: Customize-able
Lava Graffiti - Jr. puts down a patch of lava graffiti. It deal heavy damage to those who touch it and has large knock back. It will occasionally shoot out fireballs as well.
Common Graffiti - Jr. puts down a patch of common graffiti. It causes players to trip if they sprint through it. Also deals damage over time for players who get the goop on them.
Electric Graffiti - Jr. puts down a patch of electric graffiti. It briefly stuns players who touch it and deals damage.
Down B: Force Field: Jr. creates a yellow force field of paint that will block an attack. It also deals damage if touched.
Up B: Wall Graffiti - Jr. paints an M below him which he can use to teleport similar to Mewtwo's recovery.

Yeah I think Jr. has A TON of uniqueness and this is only from one game. I'd put him into A tier easy maybe even S tier if people can agree to that.
 
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Zzuxon

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It's Toad Time!
1. How many diverse options does this character have?
Quite a few. Toad has a well established skill set from SMB2 and 3d World, in that he is fast and strong, but a poor jumper. Wario's Woods indicates that he is an adept bomb-user, and he is among the Mario characters best suited to borrow from spin-off titles like Mario Kart. He may also have a good grab game, as he was the best at grabbing in SMB2.
2. Is their moves or abilities diverse from the rest of the Smash cast?
Yes, few other characters combine power and speed, at the expense of air game, low weight, and poor attack range.
3. Has the concept of the character been done before?
The closest match I could think of would be Little Mac, but he wouldn't have projectiles, poor attack range, or a decent recovery, al of which Toad would have.
4. Does the character's abilities and moves provide enough to be entertaining?
I believe a moveset like Toad's would be very entertaining.
5. How visually different is the character in terms of body shape and looks?
Toad is very visually unique from the rest of the cast.
6. Does it fit the character well enough?
I believ It fits the character very well.
 

YoshiandToad

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And so it has arrived. My favourite Mario character(sort of) in Toad, and my least favourite in Bowser Jr. BUT. This is not about favouritism(at least not intentionally) so I will attempt to do fair analysis for both.

Gonna post different posts for each, to keep it easier to keep track of.

Bowser Jr.
1. How many diverse options does this character have?

Bowser Jr is well known for his first appearance in Mario Sunshine, for which he was equipped with his trademark paintbrush. This paintbrush had the ability to create life and portals amongst other things.

Now this ability is actually super unique, and could go many many different ways so let's explore some of these options:

Bowser Jr. could actually be able to create piranha plants made of paint. Now this could be used for either; trapping and controlling the arena(think like Snake's mine plant, but with a piranha plant shooting upwards instead of an explosion) or as a long range summoner, capable to playing keep away with a combination of walking Polluted Piranha Plants, Swoopin' Stus and his own fire breath.

Combine that with his ability to create portals and he could be quite the annoying long distance fighter.

Also available to Bowser Jr. is his clown car, somewhat a staple of his these days obviously makes for a good Up + B.

2. Is their moves or abilities diverse from the rest of the Smash cast?
Currently there are few summoner fighters on the roster. Pokemon Trainer was close, but didn't work in quite the same way as I'd imagine Jr. would... Zelda is a little closer to how I envision Bowser Jr. working now thanks to her Phantom.

3. Has the concept of the character been done before?
Long range annoyers have to an extent although never as the main basis of a moveset. With his various projectiles he could have a set just based around this concept. It'd fit him far better than a melee bruiser too, as whilst his dad is a powerhouse Bowser Jr. is frequently a speed character in spinoffs.

4. Does the character's abilities and moves provide enough to be entertaining?
Annoyers are always fun to use, and irritating to fight...however when you manage to get through the barrage it'll feel like a personal achievement to the opponent too.

5. How visually different is the character in terms of body shape and looks?
Short Bowser basically. However due to the extreme size difference it should be pretty easy to tell the difference between Jr. and his father in the heat of battle.

6. Does the moves and abilities fit the character well enough?
The moveset I've just described suits him well I feel. Jr. is an annoying miniboss in the Mario games who has a habit of spamming projectiles at you(usually from above). I feel this would reflect better his character than a Mini Bowser with a paintbrush.

Unique Rating: S rank
I may dislike the character, but even I have to admit he has a lot of unique potential to work with...I'd argue more than Rosalina's remote control ability even.
 

Cpt.

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And so it has arrived. My favourite Mario character(sort of) in Toad, and my least favourite in Bowser Jr. BUT. This is not about favouritism(at least not intentionally) so I will attempt to do fair analysis for both.

Unique Rating: S rank
I may dislike the character, but even I have to admit he has a lot of unique potential to work with...I'd argue more than Rosalina's remote control ability even.
Nice. I'm very impressed that you could cope so well with you're bias. Good review of him. I forgot to mention the piranha plants in mine.
 
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Mario & Sonic Guy

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I'm pretty curious what his specials would be, paint brush will probably one special move, but what about the others?
To answer that question...

Standard Special: Bowser Jr. would hurl up to three paint balls with his brush. They're very weak, but can leave behind graffiti that damages opponents for a while.

Side Special: Bowser Jr. spins his paintbrush to repel projectile attacks. The move is weak, with hardly any knockback, but the damage that it deals can build up. Also, the move can't repel projectiles from behind.

Up Special: Bowser Jr. utilizes his paintbrush as a propeller. The angle of the move can be adjusted, and the attack scores multiple weak hits, with the last hit offering the most knockback.

Down Special: Bowser Jr. creates a small pool of graffiti with his paintbrush. The graffiti will be slippery for opposing players, and can even damage them a little.
 

Rockaphin

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Bowser Jr., I think he's a good choice for a Mario Newcomer.

Pros:
  • Has a magic paintbrush.
  • Decent amount of items to use.
  • Reoccurring character that is well-known(Doesn't really affect uniqueness).

Cons:
  • Appearance is somewhat similar to Bowser.
  • Moveset might appear to share similarities with Bowser.
  • Stiff competition with Toad and to a lessor extent, Paper Mario.(Doesn't really affect uniqueness).

Moveset Ideas:
Sorry, I won't go in-depth as I did with Paper Mario but here's a couple of things that I think would be neat.

Neutral-Special: Fire Breath
Same name as Bowser's, but completely different. I figured it would work like this:


Side-Special: Paint Lob
Using his paintbrush, Bowser Jr. lobs paint sticking to the ground for some time. While the paint is on the ground, opposing players will slip if walked on.


Down-Special: Paint Piranha
Using his paintbrush, Bowser Jr. paints the ground underneath him which will eventually create a paint piranha which is seen in Mario Sunshine. Opposing players that approach it will be attacked by the piranha. Only one or two piranhas at a time and they can be destroyed.
Here's another picture in the spoiler:

Up-Special: Koopa Clown Car
Simple enough, Bowser jr. hops in. Propellers do damage.


Final Smash:

Simple, fly around and throw bombs at your enemies. If someone comes up in yo' grill, punch them in the face.

Verdict: A-
I personally don't think he deserves an S rank. But a high B or low A would suffice. Still a good grade and he's one of the best possibilities for a Mario Newcomer.
 

Cobalsh

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Bowser Jr.
The most popular new Mario representative in both Brawl and 4, he sadly hasn't gotten into either, but that may change. He has great moveset potential with his paintbrush and maybe being able summon minions and use Pirannha Plants and his Koopa Klown Car. i'll give him an A+.

Blue Toad
Don't like the character himself, but a small, extremely strong character is pretty interesting, along with all the items from the Item Houses. So A.
 

YoshiandToad

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Blue Toad

1. How many diverse options does this character have?

So Toad has a long LONG LONG history within the Mario series. This may be the one to show a little bias; heads up.

Firstly Toad's stats; with his superhuman strength and speed, Toad is essentially a rushdown character who'd basically be the opposite of Bowser Jr. in my description; Toad excels at grappling and getting close to the opponent to deal maximum damage. His jumping skills are fairly weak in comparison to the Mario crew, but he'd outstrip the brothers in speed and power easily.

Toad is probably the character MOST associated with items. In game he gives them out when he's a NPC, and when playable he's capable of using them just as well as either Mario brother or Peach. This would make a power up moveset viable for Toad, and is surprisingly something we've seen little of within the Mario franchise with Luigi only covering the fire flower, and Mario the Fire flower and the cape.

Wario's Woods showed his ability to run up walls, opposed to just kicking off them like the brothers, and also associated the mushroom man as somewhat of an explosive master. Lastly this game also showed he could easily carry multiple times his own weight.

Toad's spores are obviously a staple of Peach's B move, but the spores were actually from Mario Tennis. Toad's spore abilities have also shown up in other spinoffs as well such as Mario Sports Mix where they spawn two large mushrooms capable of blocking opponents shots, and capable of launching enemies into the air or creating a shield from them.

Mario Strikers gave Toad emphasis on his leg strength as he can kick the ball so damn hard he sets fire to it.

Finally, Toad is by far one of the most popular Mario Kart drivers, enough to make it into the Top 10 Video Game characters in Japan off just his Mario Kart appearances. He is therefore the best(and notably ONLY veteran) candidate left to represent that series.

2. Is their moves or abilities diverse from the rest of the Smash cast?
Well okay...Toads stats have been semi done at this point unfortunately by Little Mac; a speedy beat down character with super human strength that has poor recovery skills? Yeah that's both Toad and Mac.

Link and Toon Link obviously use bombs, and Peach has stolen his most unique option in terms of both plucking(veggies) and Spore(which is literally Toad himself) leaving Toad with only a few viable unique options.

Arguably his ability to block attacks with mushrooms could draw comparison to Rosalina's Luma technique, as the move is a summonable blocker, Villager could be seen as a new items guy and even more arguably Megaman is a power up user in his moveset...

Wario obviously has his bike in his moveset, which you could also argue would be similar to the Kart.

Thus for truly unique, never been used concepts we have...Wall Walking! No one else has been shown to do this.

3. Has the concept of the character been done before? 3a. If it has been done before, is the character's way of doing it unique on it's own?
As said above, the majority has. However each version has been done differently:

Toad's super strength, speed and low jumping skills may make him seem like Little Mac, but it's fairly clear the two fighters would be very different from one another; Toad is a character that has super strength, yes, but he is also known for item use and grappling(aka plucking things up and holding them aloft his head) which as a fighting style is rather the opposite of Little Mac.

Summonable shields and the use of spores have been done by Rosalina and Peach respectively, but Toad's way would obviously be different; the mushroom would at most be a way of temporarily blocking a move. Spores would work as they do for Peach, a Counter, but could easily do item damage such as temporarily shrinking the opponent for a successful counter in reference to his Mario Kart item; the poison mushroom.

Bombs have been done by the likes of the Links before(as well as the Bob-Omb item) but if we go by the Wario's Woods game for inspiration here the damage dealt would be based on the colour of the bomb used on the victim. For example; a green coloured bomb would hurt standard Link more than it would standard Kirby. Depending on the colour palette of each character the bombs damage would go up.

Items and power ups have been done by others, but Toad's ability to summon forth a poison mushroom, a mega mushroom or a Power Leaf would arguably make him fun to play with in much the same way Diddy was fun to play with his ability to summon banana peels. Power Up suits could be implemented as a way to temporarily buff Toad up. His jump sucks; summon a propeller cap before you need to do a big third jump, suddenly you're sailing through the air!

The Kart is similar in how it'd work to Wario's bike, but visually different. I can't honestly see how to make it different right now, but visually it'd be a lot different.

4. Does the character's abilities and moves provide enough to be entertaining?
Between the power ups and items, the kart, the bomb throwing, the mushroom spawning, the ability to run up walls like Spiderman and the rush down character archetype stats, Toad probably does easily have enough to work with for an entertaining moveset.

He'd certainly be an odd mixture; a small but powerful close range rush down fighter, yet has the ability to block moves with defensive summons and uses items to buff his weak points? That's actually pretty unique.

5. How visually different is the character in terms of body shape and looks?
The only thing that looks like Toad...is another Toad. There is no chance of confusion on the battlefield between Toad and any other fighter on the Roster at current...aside from Peach's Counter, but that IS Toad. Literally one of the most visually unique, yet instantly recognizable characters from Nintendo.
6. Does the moves and abilities fit the character well enough?
If you know your Mario history the answer is a big fat yes. The problem for Toad, you see, isn't a lack of options. It's that he has MANY options, but none are as iconic to him as say...the paintbrush is to Bowser Jr, or Poltergust is to Luigi, thus it's actually kind of hard to pick what direction to take a playable Toad;

That whole bomb thing I described up there could be an entire moveset in itself for example to allow him to be a mid range beast.
The mushroom and spores combination set could make him an excellent defensive fighter rather than an attacker, some may even argue this is a better option due to the fact NPC Toads are often seen cowering, running around in a panic or under attack.
The 'Power Up' set also suits him due to him being the very fellow that not only hands them out, but has been seen using many of them in the recent Mario games(even NPC Toads have been seen using the Tanooki Leaf).

Uniqueness rating: Hard to judge, honestly. There are a few unique playstyle options, although many concepts have been done in the past, I feel there's still enough left to keep this mushroom feeling fresh.

Overall I'm going to give Toad, Blue or otherwise, an A.
Still below Bowser Jr, due to some concepts having been done before and a lot of conflicting choices available for a Toad moveset...hope I've been as unbiased as I can whilst highlighting some Toad options and playstyles people may not have thought of before.
 
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Cpt.

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Were almost there to running out of plausible characters to rate mate actually.
What!!???

Huh. Ok, I'd say that we should go over the confirmed characters first just so we can get them on the list, but afterwards it would be a good idea if we want to keep the thread running.
 

Cpt.

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So you wanna make a uniqueness list for confirmed characters now?
I think they should have their own list, but once we knock down the scraping barrel first.
That's fine. I just think it would help in defining "uniqueness" if we rated characters that are already in Smash.
 

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Alright, I have some time so here's my rating for Toad!

Alright so lets start with the usual:
Pros:
Very iconic and popular character in the Mario Series(Doesn't affect uniqueness).
Has many power-ups and items to use.

Cons:
Peach as we know, still has her Toad-Counter.
Faces stiff competition with Bowser Jr., and to a lessor extent, Paper Mario.(Doesn't affect uniqueness).
While he has the ability to be very unique, nothing is really "unique" to him.(I'll explain later).

Summary:
Alright so I'll start by explaining his problems. While Toad doesn't look similar to any character in Smash, he resembles a move that a character has. I personally don't think this is the biggest deal, but we're rating their uniqueness so I have to take that into consideration and I did the same to Bowser Jr. and Paper Mario. One other thing that may cause problems is that he doesn't have anything really unique to himself. He shares all power-ups with Mario, Luigi, Peach, and even Rosalina. Yes, he CAN use the Ice Flower and the Super Leaf but none of those really scream, "Hey, this matches Toad and should be in his moveset." Also with more Mario items being confirmed, the uniqueness of some of the possible movesets Toad could utilize are hindered. @ YoshiandToad YoshiandToad , I'd like to give him credit for the use of a Kart and I think it's a neat idea, but like you mentioned, it would function like Wario's Bike but look completely different. Also, his abilities to be a fast and strong character is debatable. As seen in Mario Spin-Off's, he's actually more of a balanced character. He's only stronger than the Mario Bros. in Super Mario Bros 2(I believe). Speaking of spin-offs, Toad could use the various sports equipment but most of them are already being used by Peach. However, not all is looking bad for Toad.

First I'll start with items, there are still a decent amount of items that Toad could use. Toad isn't usually the one to use them, but he sure does like to hand them out to the players. There's still the ice flower, propeller suit, and the cat suit. And as I've mentioned earlier, he can use them. I can't really think of a unique moveset for Toad so I'll abstain from that.

Verdict: B
Judging by my summary, you'd think I would have ranked him in the C tier, however the things that Toad could do bumps him into the B tier. I think the power-ups are great and unique, but personally I think all the power-ups would be hard to implement while staying true to the Mario series.
 
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loganhogan

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We should rate Daisy we need more people in the D and F tiers :troll:

Toad: B+
Bowser Jr.: B-

I rank people with unique presentations and moves in A or S tiers Jr. has good moves but not exactly a unique presentation, Toad has it though.
 
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SmasherMaster

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Daisy: D+ (Might be too generous)
She was actually Peach orginally, but a mistake gave her the name Daisy. Still could use flower powers and sports related objects, but I think others would do that better.

Toad: S-
Bowser Jr: B+
Not much needs to be said about these two. Others have already said it better than me.
 
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Rockaphin

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Alright, Hi I'm Daisy!


Pros:
  • Somewhat popular(Doesn't affect uniqueness).
  • Could use some other sports/party/racing items.
Cons:
  • Looks somewhat similar to Peach(Peach even has a color for her)
  • A unique moveset would be difficult to accomplish.
  • Peach does what Daisy would mostly do in a single Smash Attack.
Summary:
I'll keep this brief. I can't think of much that would be unique to Daisy. Instead of hearts maybe she would have flowers? Like Toad, she struggles to find a moveset that really helps define her. On top of that, she has a significant less amount of stuff to work with compared to Toad.

Verdict: D-
Summary sums it up pretty well. Also, I don't think she's likely at all.
 
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Forcerounds

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Bowser Jr.: B+

Bowser Jr. is certainly popular and important to the Mario series, and in terms of uniqueness, he isn't the most unique in the Mario series, but he certainly isn't the least. Many imagine Bowser Jr. to be a "Luigi-fied" clone of Bowser who is really fast, but much weaker. More creative fans propose that he use the Paintbrush from Sunshine that he has not used often in the series. Some back in the day would even suggest that he would be a clone of Bowser that could transform into a clone of Mario as Shadow Mario, but we know that transformations are out so that ain't happening.

In the end, Sakurai would likely invent some new moves for Jr. to make him more distinct from Bowser, which isn't far fetched in the slightest. He made up some specials for Bowser after all. Many of Jr.'s moves would rely on his paintbrush, some fire balls, and a final smash involving his Clown Car from NSMBU. The paintbrush is the difference maker here, as it gives Jr. some more reach, paint-based projectiles, and perhaps even a teleportation move by painting an 'M' somewhere.

Daisy: D

Daisy is relevant today thanks to Camelot, the folks who invented Waluigi to be Wario's doubles partner in Mario Tennis. Similarly, Daisy was brought back to be Peach's doubles partner, and ever since then, she has always been a Mario spin-off staple. She could use Mario Party related stuff, Mario Kart related stuff, and other sports stuff into her move set, but Peach already has some of that ground covered thanks to her forward Smash. All in all, she's just boring and is there to make sure Mario spin-offs don't turn into sausage-fests.

Blue Toad: B+

Saved the best for last. As much as I want to give Blue Toad a higher score than Bowser Jr., I cannot do so in good conscious because while Toad in general has very high popularity (supposedly in Japan) and significance, he is only slightly more unique than Bowser Jr. is.

Blue Toad is very lucky to be a playable character in NSMBWii, NSMBU, and SM3DW because this gives him reasonable access to all the power-ups that the Mario Bros. and Peach do not include in their move sets. Propeller cap, flying squirrel suit, penguin suit, ice flower, boomerang, and any Mario power-up in general could be a feasible part of his move set because Toads are known for stocking up on them.

Blue Toad's appearance is also quite a throwback to his first appearance in SMB2 on the NES. In that game, he was known for being the fastest. His grabbing speed and his ability to maintain his speed while carrying heavy objects contributes to the idea that Toad has super-human strength. Just check out his Trohpy from Melee. I have no doubt that if Toad were playable, he would have a command grab somewhere in his move set, as well as some powerful normal grabs to boot.

Now you must be asking where Blue Toad falls short when it comes to uniqueness. It's plain and simple really. Most things Toad can do, the Mario Bros. and Peach can also do. This makes many of Toad's abilities and hypothetical inclusion in the game redundant. The only game that really sets Toad apart from the other Mario characters is Wario's Woods, where he is incredibly skilled with bombs and can run up walls. In Toad's defense though, his affinity with power-ups whether he's a playable character or not really sets him apart from the Mario Bros. and Peach at the end of the day.

So Blue Toad can do a lot of things. A lot more than most Toad critics give him credit for. I made a move set around the time I became a new member here in the Toad thread. If you find it, it incorporates many of the ideas I've stated here, but in more detail.
 

andimidna

Smash Master
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Gusty garden galaxy
Bowser Jr: Solid A
Daisy: Solid B
Blue Toad: Average... C

Daisy is practically impossible, but I've always wanted to try to make a moveset for her...

Up B: Jumps up and spikes a volleyball/tennis ball/birdie
Not the best recovery, but has a good downward projectile attack involved
Down B: Crystal Smash!
Side B: Flower Swing
B: Flower Ball

Final Smash: Mega Strike: Daisy jumps up high into the air with the ball. She then raises her hand charging crystals into her clenched fist, and punches the ball straight towards the goal [forward] emitting shining crystals throughout the mega strike.
Quoted from Mario Wiki, crossed out what's irrelevant.

Some other stuff:

  • Character Type: Defensive
  • Description: Daisy is a defensive powerhouse, fast and physical. Her crystal ability can shield her efforts and devastate opponents.
Quoted from Mario Wiki.


Dodge: Deke: Daisy makes a spin and then disappears to move forward a little, then she appears again.
Quoted from Mario Wiki.

Entrance: Daisy stands up while exclaiming, "Oh yeah?!". Then she gets in a boxing stance and says, "C'mon!"
Quoted from Mario Wiki.

Side A: Wonder Flower
Down A: Flowerbed Return

If I had more time, I'd look up Super Mario Land items, and stuff from Mario Party, Fortune Street, and....
 

loganhogan

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 22, 2011
Messages
816
Daisy more or less has the same potential as Waluigi they have some unique skills like the flowerbed and crystal smash in Daisy's case but they would need to rely on a sport themed moveset to truly stand out. However we already have some sports enthusiasts so this presentation isn't entirely new, at best their hits would have effects like Peach's hearts in her side smash. Therefore I can't rank her A much less S, and she's not standing out too much either due to being yet another princess. At best I give her a C- I would give Waluigi a C+ or B- because his design is a little more beefed up.
 

YoshiandToad

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 24, 2001
Messages
7,113
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Still up Peach's dress.
Princess Daisy

1. How many diverse options does this character have?
Well, Daisy has absolutely no options using the canon Mario games(appearing in exactly one), so we're going to have to focus purely on spin off material here to get her going:

Daisy is a fairly strong individual(especially for a Princess) as she has been seen punching Bowser into the stratosphere in Mario Party, punching the ground so hard she unearths crystal shards in Mario Strikers and terrifying her team mates in the same game should they concede a goal.

Unlike Peach and Rosalina, Daisy doesn't really have a specific species she tends to be associated as the ruler of...Sarassaland is very rarely visited, not even officially in Mario Kart so it's hard to include a minion type character within her moveset like Rosalina with Luma or Peach with Toad.

Lastly, Daisy has an infinity with flowers; she has been shown to be able to have a magical power of sorts to bring life to the land around her in Mario Sports Mix and the like. This is probably her best option for true uniqueness.

2. Is their moves or abilities diverse from the rest of the Smash cast?
Plant based movesets have yet to be done within Smash(outside Ivysaur, Villager to an extent and arguably Olimar(if you count the Pikmin)) which gives Daisy something to hold onto. However, the flowers she's spawned before seem to be of her namesake; the daisy, which aren't associated with any damage giving properties.

But that's okay, we can perhaps use these Daisy fields to slow down the opponent as they try and walk through them. At a stretch you could associate her with more ferocious plant based enemies from Mario, like Pokeys(which are ideal since they are desert plants) or piranha plants(less ideal since Petey and Jr. have more association with them) but Daisy herself has never actually associated with them.

Daisy would most likely be the opposite of Peach; Peach tends to be in the air a lot, Daisy is associated with flowers and crystals and thus is more likely a ground based fighter. She could quickly leap into the air, and then down to create a powerful shockwave and blast crystal shards up which could knock back opponents with her down + B, which is arguably similar to Yoshi and Bowser's Ground Pound.

3. Has the concept of the character been done before?
To an extent...trappers have been done with the likes of Snake and Villager, and plant based movesets have been done as previously mentioned with Villager and Ivysaur. Her Crystal Shockwave move is essentially a ground pound move with aesthetic changes, most similar to Yoshi's one dealing a little knock back with the stars from his Ground Pound.

3a. If it has been done before, is the character's way of doing it unique on it's own?
It is, but Daisy really only has two things available to her that are truly 'Daisy'. You could give her the same options as Waluigi in sports gear(she's a sporty girl after all) or the Kart that was suggested for Toad, but neither are as associated with Daisy as they are with Waluigi(for sports) or Toad(for Mario Kart).

4. Does the character's abilities and moves provide enough to be entertaining?
Again, I like Daisy(preferred Princess of choice honestly) but she doesn't have enough to work with using just daisies and crystal shards...I feel like if Daisy had Sarassaland creatures more associated with her there'd be more to fall back on, but due to being away from her own Kingdom for so long, it's hard to associate her with any of it. Especially since the one time she was in that kingdom that we saw, every species was trying to kill Mario so it's hard to separate the 'Toad' species from the 'Koopa Troopa' species in her kingdom.

5. How visually different is the character in terms of body shape and looks?
Honestly? In the heat of battle she'll look a bit like Peach...less so than Rosalina will due to the different hair colour being more obvious, but she does still resemble her Mushroom Kingdom counterpart.

6. Does the moves and abilities fit the character well enough?
The flower growth does...the crystal shard shockwave suits the character, but honestly it's like saying Toad is associated with fire kicks or Bowser Jr. with sonar roars. They all did these moves in Mario Strikers, but I'd hardly call them iconic to the characters.

Overall I feel like there isn't really enough for Daisy to work with that is something iconic to her, outside of getting creative and associating plant enemies with her. I know the likes of Captain Falcon had his moveset mostly made up, but I never realized how hard it'd be to pull things for Daisy to be able to do outside of blooming flowers, an ability that is ideally more associated with Lip.

Overall Rating: C-

Flower blooming is fairly unique, but Daisy has far less options to pull from than either Jr, Toad or Paper Mario.
 

Koopaul

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 29, 2013
Messages
2,336
Wait. Chorus Men? That's not a Mario or Kid Icarus character!

Hey man! When does Barbara the Bat get a turn? You've done almost every character under the sun except for her. Besides, Chorus Men and Marshal are practically the same thing. Why are they getting 4-5 days?
 
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