Phoenix_is_OK
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2019
- Messages
- 103
I originally posted this on Reddit but it's super relevant so here it is.
https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/bc1r2x/how_good_or_bad_is_bayonetta_an_in_depth_look_at/
Hi, I'm Phoenix. I made the recovery frame chart for Smash Wiki/ the Bayocord, and I assist with some testing for the server. I'm also prevalent on Smash boards, Reddit, and I go to my local scene occasionally.
Bayocord: (edit: fixed link, props to Okha on the server) https://discordapp.com/invite/0hnEtng5sDAInh0c
I want to let everyone know how Bayonetta is in this game, and if you have any complaint, please be sure I didn't address it already.
Witch Twist: Up B
Afterburner Kick: air side B
Heel Slide: grounded Side B
BC/ Bullet Climax: Neutral B
Bayonetta, as a whole, was so dominant in Smash 4 for obvious reasons. These reasons needed to be nerfed and I have no issues with them: Frame 4 Witch Twist that gave you the best follow ups in the game. Fair 1 which, in combination with Witch Twist, made mix-ups into True Combos Witch Time, which was outright broken Obvious other reasons but these three are the most apparent Going into Ultimate, all three of these were nerfed heavily. Witch Twist is now frame 6, among some other changes (namely it being more susceptible to DI), Fair 1 has so much lag that your only option is to autocancel into Fair23, and Witch Time is... well I assume you've seen.
The big issue here is that Nintendo went further... and further, and further, and didn't really know when to stop. Smash 4 Bayonetta is quite possibly the most flawed a "broken" character can be because she has definite weaknesses that, while they can be avoided, are still there. Nintendo failed to address her biggest flaws in the process of nerfing her, so now you have a character void of her broken stuff (good), void of what made her outstanding (oh), and her bad jank still unpatched (sad).
The character had several flaws from Smash 4 that still haven't been fixed:
Frame data: Frame 9 jab. This character has a frame 9 jab. It isn't even good (I'll explain that in the next paragraph), and it's frame 9. Her forward tilt (the one two three kick) comes out on frame 12. Her moves have stupid high startup on seemingly everything in a game with frame 1 jabs, projectiles, and other specials. She only has two grounded moves that come out before frame 9: her frame 7 down tilt (which has so much FAF it doesn't combo into much), and Witch Twist (which I butcher later). In air, she has a frame 7 Fair, which is much smaller than in Smash 4, and her Afterburner kick which, like W Twist, drowns you in recovery frames. The frame 7 grab doesn't help her either. Smashes are never safe, tilts are slow considering this is a combo character.
Multihits: Bayonetta's multihits are possibly the worst connecting ones in the game if it wasn't for, say, Ken. Up tilt doesn't connect properly if you hit them either: at a specific angle, or with enough rage. Utilt is possibly her best combo starter and it is inconsistent. There is a video of Tamim losing a stock to MKLeo's Ike because Utilt did a flawed hit, his opponent recovered before the move was over, and smacked Bayo several cities over. Side Tilt has the same issue likewise, where Ftilt 2 and 3 will not connect. This is especially true if your opponent isn't hit by Ftilt 1, they get hit by 2, and 3 just does it's thing. Witch Twist, despite being much less susceptible to SDI, can still be mashed out of. Hell, the move just sometimes won't carry your opponent into the later hits of the move. Thank you single hit witch twist, very cool. Finally, you have Heel Slide, which can be teched and/ or DI'ed out of. This on its own is poor, but seeing how every multihit in the game seems to work better than in 4 it is just depressing.
Smash Attacks: I legit didn't know how they could somehow not make them better, but instead worse. Here we are though. All 3 Smash Attacks have a reduced charge multiplier of 1.2x, inside and outside of witch time. They clank with literally everything. EVERYTHING. Fsmash has 2 less frames of startup, but because they didn't fully compensate the move it has an additional frame of end lag vs the previous game. My personal favorite here: Fsmash still has a goddamn blind spot right in front of Bayonetta. And because her smashes are stationary, running into her makes Bayo move backwards but the fist stay in place. You can literally outrun her smashes thanks to the blindspot.
Landing Lag/ Recovery Frames: They reduced landing lag on 3 of her moves: Uair (10 to 8, which is great), Fair (14 to 12, which still isn't enough), and Bair (12 to 8, which is really really nice). But they didn't do enough in a game where Shulk's Nair is frame 6 for landing. They made Dair 2 frames slower. Downwards Afterburner Kick can no longer autocancel, and it gives her 20 frames of landing lag if you don't do the landing hitbox. Her combos have this much landing lag based on the combination: 19, 25 (-1 from 4), 30, 32, 40, and 42 (-1 from 4). It's such a petty difference that it might as well not exist, where heavyweights can't undergo the amount of lag that Bayonetta receives from touching the ground. Held Nair and Held Uair have 8 and 6 more frames of landing lag, but it makes zero sense as to why. In Smash 4, this would be a noticeable nerf, as the slower gameplay and safer options made held Nair a big part of her kit. But in Ultimate, these moves are simply mediocre without the nerf (not to mention their nonexistent knockback and high FAF without landing), and with the nerf are literally unusable. They also added lag to held Fair and Bair for some god forsaken reason.
My landing lag chart: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10XNTMy5xAPS2MvYeNGtD--Uq7SRyaqZVu5-uK8l53AM/edit?usp=sharing
Shield Pressure: Bayonetta won't break your shield, she has no way of doing so. Her throws are terrible. You can sit in shield and eat grabs until she can Fthrow you at 165% at the ledge. Side B not crossing up or doing the second hit doesn't help either.
Grabs: speaking of which, Bayonetta's grabs are pretty awful. Back throw is a standard positional throw, but it launches too high to be used to its fullest at the ledge. Up Throw launches slightly too high at low percents and doesn't come close to ever killing at high ones. Down Throw is too slow to use for anything, and becomes a kill throw at 245%. Forward throw is a good positional throw but it kills way too late, killing at 180% with proper DI
Bullet Arts: Honestly these might as well be taunts if we aren't counting whiffed jab 1234 and Fsmash.
You have the "**** Bayonetta in particular nerfs" Airdodges: Bayonetta is one of two characters in the game to have a "reduced airdodge speed". The other is Little Mac. Thank you Nintendo, very cool. In addition, Bat Within always teleports Bayonetta downwards, meaning offstage this could kill her, and onstage this makes her recovery predictable. Bat Within is overrated: it can teleport you to the blastzone, you still take damage, it is predictable, Pokemon Trainer has a frame 1 dodge that is like 10x better than Bat Within.
Smash Multiplier: Already stated above, she only has a 1.2X charge. This is only for Bayo, unless you want to count Olimar not being able to charge his smash attacks.
Bullet Climax: Every charge move in the game, minus BC and Limit, has been buffed to be easier to charge, with lower penalties to charge. Bullet Climax takes longer to charge, you can no longer cancel during charging, and you can only hold it for 5 seconds before it autoreleases. Not a major nerf, but a middle finger to Bayo nonetheless.
You have the massive, seemingly uncalled for nerfs: Up Air and Neutral Air cannot kill at 245% center stage. Held Nair and Uair are borderline useless unless you go super offstage with held Uair. It is much harder to ladder people, and now it is impossible to finish them with Uair. The move is a great combo tool, but changing a move from killing at 120% to 200+% is just... wow. Both of these moves should kill at 200%, bare minimum, and they don't even do that.
Bayonetta's Side B (Heel Slide) is pretty awful. No true combos off it unless you are at like 10%, the second hit sometimes isn't true, you can sometimes tech between hits, you can shield it and punish. The move is 71 frames one hit, 72 frames both hits. The move relies entirely on the second hit to be usable, and the removal of it on shield makes it dead in the water. It is all risk minimal reward.
Hitboxes/ Visuals: Don't crucify me I thought she had some stupid big hitboxes in Smash 4, but this is a new game and they suck in this one. Honestly I'll just provide the video here ( https://youtu.be/TH_0Wv82IgQ ) and say that they nerfed most of her hitboxes while refusing to fix her massive issues with them. This is a Nerf in some cases, and in others it doesn't fix previous game jank. Take for example her trails. Her forward air, Jab, and side tilt all have their trails come out 1 to 2 frames before the move comes out, meaning they look faster than they actually are. The Bayonetta Discord has a meme of Bayonetta's landing Forward Air going through a KRool for instance. But it doesn't end with bad trails coming out too early, it also has to do with them not lining up. The very beginning of Bayonetta's Up air didn't have a hitbox in 4, and they made the problem worse by having the hitbox start ever so slightly later in the move. If Bayos leg is an arch, imagine the first 15 degrees cut off. This doesn't even take into account her Smashes mind you. Most of all, Witch Twist went from straight broken to depressing in one game, honestly that move just got butchered. I would like to add that the hitbox video is super accurate, as Bayonetta has minimal/ no stretched limbs.
Dair kills later (on and offstage), has more FAF, has more landing lag, and still doesn't have consistent air into landing hitbox.
Bair kills later, has more FAF, and has a worsened sweetspot thanks to a greatly nerfed hitbox.
Witch Time: This needed to be nerfed. But it still had issues that weren't fixed. It's now a frame 8 counter, with 60 FAF, that only nets you anything meaty past 90%, you can be outprioritized in your own counter, early percents are useless, more than 3 whiffs are useless, etc. Any other counter does more damage at lower percents, and kills earlier/ more consistently. In addition, Smash Attacks are made weaker in WT when charged, having their multiplier lowered further to 1.1x.
Witch Twist: Can still be SDI'ed out of, DI hurts it more, single hit witch twist is terrible while it was good in 4, the grounded hitbox doesn't hit short characters (Pichu, Pikachu, Jiggly, Kirby), and it doesn't snap the ledge... it a game where nearly everything snaps the ledge at some point. Her OoS option turns her vulnerable and only works on whichever side she is facing. The hitbox is terribly small as well compared to 4.
So what can we see from here? We have a character who can't approach, as she as zero shield pressure, her quickest safe option is running Dtilt, frame 7, or short hop ABK, frame 10, both of which are unsafe. Or she can go for a grab that leads to nothing because her throws suck.
At the same time, she has no pressure. Bullet arts are far too laggy, and Bullet Climax is insanely matchup dependent. BC for example does horribly against shorter characters, while it is serviceable against taller ones. Altogether though, it can't beat zoners.
Your entire game plan is playing an absurd mind game with worse tools than your opponent. Everything good with Bayonetta is punish based, but even then it isn't superb. She has a combo game, and has cool and crazy zero to deaths on YouTube, but once you play the character you realize how stupidly technical and impossible compared to S4 Bayo.
A simple ladder combo is laggier, more dangerous, and much harder to perform, with much less reward. And even if you succeed, you run the risk of an SD.
Getting your opponent to kill percent makes life even worse. You have no good kill moves other than back air, and even then that move is absolute jank, requiring perfect placement to do as much as kill at 130% instead of 150% with it. Your smashes are terrible, Witch Time has is awful and may not even work, your kill throw kills a solid 10-50% later than every other kill throw (that is considered a viable kill option) in the game. Bayonetta becomes insanely edgeguard dependent, and even then your aerials alone won't kill. You have to string your specials together to do as much as kill at 120% offstage when Marthcina or Paisy can just smack them with anything.
She's insanely read dependent and at a constant disadvantage because the neutral is her disadvantage state.
Matchup wise, she does poorly against every good character with the only exceptions being ROB and Ganon due to her combos actually working and her edgeguarding shining through, but even then learning the matchup doesn't make it heavily in her favor.
She gets destroyed by small characters because of her hitboxes being so awkward. She gets beat by disjoints because everything clanks with everything. She struggles against characters with good recoveries because her biggest strength disappears. She struggles against characters that can beat her to every punch, and have moves that come out at frame 1 to beat her combos like Snake and Luigi. She struggles against characters with good grabs as her reliance on you throwing out something unsafe on her shield is substantially less. She dies early. She's easily pressured. Projectiles scare her. She has the frame data of a heavyweight and she kills like Sheik.
Super combos on YouTube are less “wow they landing that” and more “wow they did absolutely nothing”. Don't DI up, airdodge out, and learn in what direction to DI so you don't get slapped by a character that is most likely inferior to your own.
She has minimal tournament results.
Bayonetta is not a good character. If you have trouble with the matchup, join the Bayonetta Discord and we can politely tell you how to win it. Stupid high risk for moderate reward.
Edit: I know anti-edit Reddit but someone on the Bayocord dmed me and I would like to address some **** I missed according to them
Up Tilt is Bayonettas main combo starter and it comes out on frame 9 for some god forsaken reason. It's a 39 frame move so if you whiff it you get punished. Honestly you get punished for breathing with this character.
I would like to add that you actually can do directional bat within, so what I put was incorrect and I apologise, but Bat Within direction causes you to rapidly lose both momentum and height so the point still stands: it can cause you to SD.
Finally, Witch Twist SDI is actually more effective than in Smash 4 due to the hitbox shrinking, meaning you can actually now fall out of it by rapidly SDIing and Bayonetta can lose any/ all follow-ups out of it, as opposed to it 4 where it would do less damage and remove some follow-ups.
https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/bc1r2x/how_good_or_bad_is_bayonetta_an_in_depth_look_at/
Hi, I'm Phoenix. I made the recovery frame chart for Smash Wiki/ the Bayocord, and I assist with some testing for the server. I'm also prevalent on Smash boards, Reddit, and I go to my local scene occasionally.
Bayocord: (edit: fixed link, props to Okha on the server) https://discordapp.com/invite/0hnEtng5sDAInh0c
I want to let everyone know how Bayonetta is in this game, and if you have any complaint, please be sure I didn't address it already.
Witch Twist: Up B
Afterburner Kick: air side B
Heel Slide: grounded Side B
BC/ Bullet Climax: Neutral B
Bayonetta, as a whole, was so dominant in Smash 4 for obvious reasons. These reasons needed to be nerfed and I have no issues with them: Frame 4 Witch Twist that gave you the best follow ups in the game. Fair 1 which, in combination with Witch Twist, made mix-ups into True Combos Witch Time, which was outright broken Obvious other reasons but these three are the most apparent Going into Ultimate, all three of these were nerfed heavily. Witch Twist is now frame 6, among some other changes (namely it being more susceptible to DI), Fair 1 has so much lag that your only option is to autocancel into Fair23, and Witch Time is... well I assume you've seen.
The big issue here is that Nintendo went further... and further, and further, and didn't really know when to stop. Smash 4 Bayonetta is quite possibly the most flawed a "broken" character can be because she has definite weaknesses that, while they can be avoided, are still there. Nintendo failed to address her biggest flaws in the process of nerfing her, so now you have a character void of her broken stuff (good), void of what made her outstanding (oh), and her bad jank still unpatched (sad).
The character had several flaws from Smash 4 that still haven't been fixed:
Frame data: Frame 9 jab. This character has a frame 9 jab. It isn't even good (I'll explain that in the next paragraph), and it's frame 9. Her forward tilt (the one two three kick) comes out on frame 12. Her moves have stupid high startup on seemingly everything in a game with frame 1 jabs, projectiles, and other specials. She only has two grounded moves that come out before frame 9: her frame 7 down tilt (which has so much FAF it doesn't combo into much), and Witch Twist (which I butcher later). In air, she has a frame 7 Fair, which is much smaller than in Smash 4, and her Afterburner kick which, like W Twist, drowns you in recovery frames. The frame 7 grab doesn't help her either. Smashes are never safe, tilts are slow considering this is a combo character.
Multihits: Bayonetta's multihits are possibly the worst connecting ones in the game if it wasn't for, say, Ken. Up tilt doesn't connect properly if you hit them either: at a specific angle, or with enough rage. Utilt is possibly her best combo starter and it is inconsistent. There is a video of Tamim losing a stock to MKLeo's Ike because Utilt did a flawed hit, his opponent recovered before the move was over, and smacked Bayo several cities over. Side Tilt has the same issue likewise, where Ftilt 2 and 3 will not connect. This is especially true if your opponent isn't hit by Ftilt 1, they get hit by 2, and 3 just does it's thing. Witch Twist, despite being much less susceptible to SDI, can still be mashed out of. Hell, the move just sometimes won't carry your opponent into the later hits of the move. Thank you single hit witch twist, very cool. Finally, you have Heel Slide, which can be teched and/ or DI'ed out of. This on its own is poor, but seeing how every multihit in the game seems to work better than in 4 it is just depressing.
Smash Attacks: I legit didn't know how they could somehow not make them better, but instead worse. Here we are though. All 3 Smash Attacks have a reduced charge multiplier of 1.2x, inside and outside of witch time. They clank with literally everything. EVERYTHING. Fsmash has 2 less frames of startup, but because they didn't fully compensate the move it has an additional frame of end lag vs the previous game. My personal favorite here: Fsmash still has a goddamn blind spot right in front of Bayonetta. And because her smashes are stationary, running into her makes Bayo move backwards but the fist stay in place. You can literally outrun her smashes thanks to the blindspot.
Landing Lag/ Recovery Frames: They reduced landing lag on 3 of her moves: Uair (10 to 8, which is great), Fair (14 to 12, which still isn't enough), and Bair (12 to 8, which is really really nice). But they didn't do enough in a game where Shulk's Nair is frame 6 for landing. They made Dair 2 frames slower. Downwards Afterburner Kick can no longer autocancel, and it gives her 20 frames of landing lag if you don't do the landing hitbox. Her combos have this much landing lag based on the combination: 19, 25 (-1 from 4), 30, 32, 40, and 42 (-1 from 4). It's such a petty difference that it might as well not exist, where heavyweights can't undergo the amount of lag that Bayonetta receives from touching the ground. Held Nair and Held Uair have 8 and 6 more frames of landing lag, but it makes zero sense as to why. In Smash 4, this would be a noticeable nerf, as the slower gameplay and safer options made held Nair a big part of her kit. But in Ultimate, these moves are simply mediocre without the nerf (not to mention their nonexistent knockback and high FAF without landing), and with the nerf are literally unusable. They also added lag to held Fair and Bair for some god forsaken reason.
My landing lag chart: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10XNTMy5xAPS2MvYeNGtD--Uq7SRyaqZVu5-uK8l53AM/edit?usp=sharing
Shield Pressure: Bayonetta won't break your shield, she has no way of doing so. Her throws are terrible. You can sit in shield and eat grabs until she can Fthrow you at 165% at the ledge. Side B not crossing up or doing the second hit doesn't help either.
Grabs: speaking of which, Bayonetta's grabs are pretty awful. Back throw is a standard positional throw, but it launches too high to be used to its fullest at the ledge. Up Throw launches slightly too high at low percents and doesn't come close to ever killing at high ones. Down Throw is too slow to use for anything, and becomes a kill throw at 245%. Forward throw is a good positional throw but it kills way too late, killing at 180% with proper DI
Bullet Arts: Honestly these might as well be taunts if we aren't counting whiffed jab 1234 and Fsmash.
You have the "**** Bayonetta in particular nerfs" Airdodges: Bayonetta is one of two characters in the game to have a "reduced airdodge speed". The other is Little Mac. Thank you Nintendo, very cool. In addition, Bat Within always teleports Bayonetta downwards, meaning offstage this could kill her, and onstage this makes her recovery predictable. Bat Within is overrated: it can teleport you to the blastzone, you still take damage, it is predictable, Pokemon Trainer has a frame 1 dodge that is like 10x better than Bat Within.
Smash Multiplier: Already stated above, she only has a 1.2X charge. This is only for Bayo, unless you want to count Olimar not being able to charge his smash attacks.
Bullet Climax: Every charge move in the game, minus BC and Limit, has been buffed to be easier to charge, with lower penalties to charge. Bullet Climax takes longer to charge, you can no longer cancel during charging, and you can only hold it for 5 seconds before it autoreleases. Not a major nerf, but a middle finger to Bayo nonetheless.
You have the massive, seemingly uncalled for nerfs: Up Air and Neutral Air cannot kill at 245% center stage. Held Nair and Uair are borderline useless unless you go super offstage with held Uair. It is much harder to ladder people, and now it is impossible to finish them with Uair. The move is a great combo tool, but changing a move from killing at 120% to 200+% is just... wow. Both of these moves should kill at 200%, bare minimum, and they don't even do that.
Bayonetta's Side B (Heel Slide) is pretty awful. No true combos off it unless you are at like 10%, the second hit sometimes isn't true, you can sometimes tech between hits, you can shield it and punish. The move is 71 frames one hit, 72 frames both hits. The move relies entirely on the second hit to be usable, and the removal of it on shield makes it dead in the water. It is all risk minimal reward.
Hitboxes/ Visuals: Don't crucify me I thought she had some stupid big hitboxes in Smash 4, but this is a new game and they suck in this one. Honestly I'll just provide the video here ( https://youtu.be/TH_0Wv82IgQ ) and say that they nerfed most of her hitboxes while refusing to fix her massive issues with them. This is a Nerf in some cases, and in others it doesn't fix previous game jank. Take for example her trails. Her forward air, Jab, and side tilt all have their trails come out 1 to 2 frames before the move comes out, meaning they look faster than they actually are. The Bayonetta Discord has a meme of Bayonetta's landing Forward Air going through a KRool for instance. But it doesn't end with bad trails coming out too early, it also has to do with them not lining up. The very beginning of Bayonetta's Up air didn't have a hitbox in 4, and they made the problem worse by having the hitbox start ever so slightly later in the move. If Bayos leg is an arch, imagine the first 15 degrees cut off. This doesn't even take into account her Smashes mind you. Most of all, Witch Twist went from straight broken to depressing in one game, honestly that move just got butchered. I would like to add that the hitbox video is super accurate, as Bayonetta has minimal/ no stretched limbs.
Dair kills later (on and offstage), has more FAF, has more landing lag, and still doesn't have consistent air into landing hitbox.
Bair kills later, has more FAF, and has a worsened sweetspot thanks to a greatly nerfed hitbox.
Witch Time: This needed to be nerfed. But it still had issues that weren't fixed. It's now a frame 8 counter, with 60 FAF, that only nets you anything meaty past 90%, you can be outprioritized in your own counter, early percents are useless, more than 3 whiffs are useless, etc. Any other counter does more damage at lower percents, and kills earlier/ more consistently. In addition, Smash Attacks are made weaker in WT when charged, having their multiplier lowered further to 1.1x.
Witch Twist: Can still be SDI'ed out of, DI hurts it more, single hit witch twist is terrible while it was good in 4, the grounded hitbox doesn't hit short characters (Pichu, Pikachu, Jiggly, Kirby), and it doesn't snap the ledge... it a game where nearly everything snaps the ledge at some point. Her OoS option turns her vulnerable and only works on whichever side she is facing. The hitbox is terribly small as well compared to 4.
So what can we see from here? We have a character who can't approach, as she as zero shield pressure, her quickest safe option is running Dtilt, frame 7, or short hop ABK, frame 10, both of which are unsafe. Or she can go for a grab that leads to nothing because her throws suck.
At the same time, she has no pressure. Bullet arts are far too laggy, and Bullet Climax is insanely matchup dependent. BC for example does horribly against shorter characters, while it is serviceable against taller ones. Altogether though, it can't beat zoners.
Your entire game plan is playing an absurd mind game with worse tools than your opponent. Everything good with Bayonetta is punish based, but even then it isn't superb. She has a combo game, and has cool and crazy zero to deaths on YouTube, but once you play the character you realize how stupidly technical and impossible compared to S4 Bayo.
A simple ladder combo is laggier, more dangerous, and much harder to perform, with much less reward. And even if you succeed, you run the risk of an SD.
Getting your opponent to kill percent makes life even worse. You have no good kill moves other than back air, and even then that move is absolute jank, requiring perfect placement to do as much as kill at 130% instead of 150% with it. Your smashes are terrible, Witch Time has is awful and may not even work, your kill throw kills a solid 10-50% later than every other kill throw (that is considered a viable kill option) in the game. Bayonetta becomes insanely edgeguard dependent, and even then your aerials alone won't kill. You have to string your specials together to do as much as kill at 120% offstage when Marthcina or Paisy can just smack them with anything.
She's insanely read dependent and at a constant disadvantage because the neutral is her disadvantage state.
Matchup wise, she does poorly against every good character with the only exceptions being ROB and Ganon due to her combos actually working and her edgeguarding shining through, but even then learning the matchup doesn't make it heavily in her favor.
She gets destroyed by small characters because of her hitboxes being so awkward. She gets beat by disjoints because everything clanks with everything. She struggles against characters with good recoveries because her biggest strength disappears. She struggles against characters that can beat her to every punch, and have moves that come out at frame 1 to beat her combos like Snake and Luigi. She struggles against characters with good grabs as her reliance on you throwing out something unsafe on her shield is substantially less. She dies early. She's easily pressured. Projectiles scare her. She has the frame data of a heavyweight and she kills like Sheik.
Super combos on YouTube are less “wow they landing that” and more “wow they did absolutely nothing”. Don't DI up, airdodge out, and learn in what direction to DI so you don't get slapped by a character that is most likely inferior to your own.
She has minimal tournament results.
Bayonetta is not a good character. If you have trouble with the matchup, join the Bayonetta Discord and we can politely tell you how to win it. Stupid high risk for moderate reward.
Edit: I know anti-edit Reddit but someone on the Bayocord dmed me and I would like to address some **** I missed according to them
Up Tilt is Bayonettas main combo starter and it comes out on frame 9 for some god forsaken reason. It's a 39 frame move so if you whiff it you get punished. Honestly you get punished for breathing with this character.
I would like to add that you actually can do directional bat within, so what I put was incorrect and I apologise, but Bat Within direction causes you to rapidly lose both momentum and height so the point still stands: it can cause you to SD.
Finally, Witch Twist SDI is actually more effective than in Smash 4 due to the hitbox shrinking, meaning you can actually now fall out of it by rapidly SDIing and Bayonetta can lose any/ all follow-ups out of it, as opposed to it 4 where it would do less damage and remove some follow-ups.