The spunkster youngster, Joey for smash 4!

[PsychoIncarnate]

There are non-ice pokemon that can use ice beam, so learning fire moves doesn't necessarily mean Dragonite will be able to counter them. Especially since there are a couple of ice/ water types that are partially resistant to fire to counter that.

Though he could still use thunder

But thunder wouldn't help against a nidoking, and neither would fire blast.

 

[Deleted member]

Dragonite can learn Water attacks to counter Nidoking.

And it itself can learn Ice Beam through TM. So yeah, that not only counters another Dragonite (seeing as the only Dragon type attack that does damage, Dragon Rage, does the same damage no matter what), but counters Pokes like Nidoking who can also learn the attack.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

What about someone who is faster and stronger, but doesn't have a direct attack to counter dragonite?

Like Alakazam.

Spoiler

(I really don't know 1st gen meta game anyway)

 

[Deleted member]

Not sure, but I'm pretty sure Dragonite has higher ATK Stats.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Yeah, but so far we've given him Surf, Thunder, Blizzard, and Fire Blast so his high Attack isn't going to help.

 

[jigglover]

Where did this conversation start!? Also surf, thunder, blizzard and fire blast would fail in the meta-game, even in gen 1.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Where did this conversation start!? Also surf, thunder, blizzard and fire blast would fail in the meta-game, even in gen 1.

Yeah, I know that. But apparently Dragonite doesn't

 

[jigglover]

That's true. To be honest, it'd be difficult to make any of the pseudo-legendaries bad in the meta-game. Making up a quick set now for a rain team, would be: Hurricane, thunder, dragon claw and dragon dance. Easy. Dragon claw takes advantage of the high physical attack, while hurricane and thunder would be good if it had a helpful nature for special attack and 252 EV's for it. Dragon dance is mainly there for speed, but use it enough times and spam dragon claw (unless a ferro or scizor or something appears). That literally took me 3 minutes, and most of it was waiting for bulbapedia to load! :/

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

interestingly, his Ratatta has maximum 31 IVs in all of his stats, something nearly impossible to achieve without hacking. by the way, Joey in Gen III might not be the same due to the japanese names.

Ever since I saw that post, I've recalled that this Rattata is not the only Pokemon with perfect IVs. In the Battle Subway for Black 2 and White 2, your partner (either Nate or Rosa) for the Multi Train Battles will use Pokemon that always have perfect IVs, which makes Joey much less unique.

It's too bad that you have to resort to hacking tools to get your Pokemon to have perfect IVs, and even then, they need to appear legal.

 

[ManicRaider]

Adding him to the game would be good for a laugh but if they were to add another trainer I think it would be best to go with a well known character like Blue or Giovanni.

 

[jigglover]

Adding him to the game would be good for a laugh but if they were to add another trainer I think it would be best to go with a well known character like Blue or Giovanni.

The interesting thing with Giovanni is that his popularity is solely from the anime, and I don't think a character that is mainly anime based would fit well in smash. To be honest, his design itself wouldn't look good in smash, unless he's randomly in black 2/white 2 with a renovated design somewhere in the game I haven't got to yet? I'm not sure how well Blue would be received, and what pokemon would he have? Since he is a gen 1 trainer, he would have to have 3 gen 1 pokemon, so that would bring the total in pokemon, assuming no cuts, to 8/9, 9/10 if mewtwo and blue get in, 8/10 if zoroark and blue get in and, for that matter, 6/7 if mewtwo alone gets in...

 

[Deleted member]

Yes, a character that hardly appeared in the anime gained his popularity from it.
GOOD EFFING LOGIC.

But as a counterpoint, Lucario. You cannot deny that his popularity came from his movie (which debuted before D/P). So if a character that is "mainly anime based" wouldn't fit well, then Lucario needs to go. And even Zoroark and somewhat Mewtwo. I say somewhat for Mewtwo because it's hard to tell how popular it was before his movie. But he's still anime based since he talks in Melee (though Japanese only).

And jigglover, you need to do some goddman research before spouting off random things.
Giovanni appeared in HG/SS with a redesign, and appears in B2/W2 sporting that same design.

And "since Blue is a Gen 1 trainer, he would need Gen 1 Pokemon"? You are aware he has more than Gen 1 Pokemon right? Apparently not. But then again, point is moot, since Youngster Joey, who the thread is about, is a Gen 2 trainer, so he shouldn't be using a Rattata, he should be using Gen 2 Pokemon!

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

The interesting thing with Giovanni is that his popularity is solely from the anime, and I don't think a character that is mainly anime based would fit well in smash. To be honest, his design itself wouldn't look good in smash, unless he's randomly in black 2/white 2 with a renovated design somewhere in the game I haven't got to yet? I'm not sure how well Blue would be received, and what pokemon would he have? Since he is a gen 1 trainer, he would have to have 3 gen 1 pokemon, so that would bring the total in pokemon, assuming no cuts, to 8/9, 9/10 if mewtwo and blue get in, 8/10 if zoroark and blue get in and, for that matter, 6/7 if mewtwo alone gets in...

How is his popularity based on the anime? He's a much better written character in the games

 

[Zuby]

Anime definitely plays a part. Look at Pikachu and Jigglypuff. If it were games solely then it would have been Charizard from the get-go.

 

[Deleted member]

Pikachu and Jigglypuff were Japan's #1 and #2 before the anime even began.
In fact, it was the fact Pikachu was #1 that Ash started with him instead of the intended Clefairy.

 

[Zuby]

Pikachu and Jigglypuff were Japan's #1 and #2 before the anime even began.
In fact, it was the fact Pikachu was #1 that Ash started with him instead of the intended Clefairy.

What I mean was that in terms of the gameplay alone, those two Pokemon had no extra significance beyond any other catchable basic Pokemon, while Charizard was one of the mascots and hence a core part of 1/3 of teams (that retained their starter).

Did they seriously think a Clefairy could possibly make good television?

 

[jigglover]

Apparently in a pre-game poll, when they had the intended mascot's designs ready, Clefairy scored top place and so was going to be Ash's pokemon. It is true that Pikachu later scored first place, but the reason why Pikachu ended up Ash's starter pokemon was because nintendo thought that Clefairy and Jigglypuff would appeal too much to girls, and possibly stop Boys buying the games.

 

[Deleted member]

What I mean was that in terms of the gameplay alone, those two Pokemon had no extra significance beyond any other catchable basic Pokemon, while Charizard was one of the mascots and hence a core part of 1/3 of teams (that retained their starter).

Did they seriously think a Clefairy could possibly make good television?

If it was anything like THIS Clefairy..... http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Red's_Clefairy

Then yes. Hell, we wouldn't even need Meowth.

But also, as long as Venusaur and Blastoise existed, Charizard would not have been the "sole" one to choose. They represent the same thing Charizard does, and considering that players get the option for one of the three, if going by games, all three would have to be added in order to not alienate.
Why do you think Pokemon Trainer uses an evolutionary line of all three of Kanto's Starters?

 

[SmasherMaster]

Evolution is the only way to get much stronger Pokemon and its an important part to the Pokemon franchise as a whole.

 

[Zuby]

But also, as long as Venusaur and Blastoise existed, Charizard would not have been the "sole" one to choose. They represent the same thing Charizard does, and considering that players get the option for one of the three, if going by games, all three would have to be added in order to not alienate.
Why do you think Pokemon Trainer uses an evolutionary line of all three of Kanto's Starters?

Yeah, if they were willing to have 3 Pokemon reps in SSB then they'd be the trio. The only reason I hesitate over the other two is because of the Green / Blue localisation inconsistency, while Charizard was a mascot worldwide.

Personally I don't really care as long as the series is appropriately represented, and I think the Trainer was a good move to that end.

My original point was that the anime is definitely a contributary factor in choosing Pokemon, and I think Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Pichu, Lucario and possibly Squirtle are evidence of this. Trainer and Mewtwo had greater in-game significance, though the latter was no doubt helped by the anime too.

 

[Deleted member]

Lucario? Sure, I'd buy that.

But Pikachu and Jigglypuff were popular in Japan before the anime even existed.

And since Smash 64 was originally going to be Japan exclusive...yeah....
And that also dissolves the "localisation inconsistency" regarding Venu/Char/Blast, since there would be only Japan to consider in characters, and all three were Version Mascots.

Pikachu was a main component in the anime BECAUSE it was popular, not the other way around. Pikachu became the mascot of the series before becoming a TV star.
As for Jigglypuff, there is another thing to note. Jigglypuff's inclusion was becaue of being able to simply be a model swap of Kirby with some different moves. This also helped Luigi and Captain Falcon (model of a character from Smash's prototype).

As for Pichu, clones are under a different set of rules. Pichu was added because it was heavily marketed (for being a smaller, cuter Pikachu, not from the Pichu Bros.) and because it could serve as a joke character.

EDIT: Squirtle was also popular before the anime as well. And if the anime really played a big role for Pokemon Trainer, we would have had Bulbasaur instead of Squirtle, since Bulbasaur was on Ash's team longer.

 

[SmasherMaster]

Youngster Joey needs a Lillipup or a Patrat. But I would rather want a Lillipup

 

[jigglover]

Why? And if it is a Lillipup or Patrat, then Patrat would be better, since we Rattata is very lillipup-like, and Patrat isn't to Lillipup or Spearow!

 

[SmasherMaster]

BEcause there is a Youngster Joey in Black and White. HE's located in the dreamyard with two Patrats and a Lillipup. Plus, his Ratatta is now a Raticate.

 

[jigglover]

I know that. His iconic pokemon is Rattata. Don't bring a Pokemon story-line into the Pokemon world...

 

[Superyoshiom]

Joey and his top percentage Ratatta would be too OP for Smash

 

[BluePikmin11]

Looks like the thread has been "Nestered" before.
Anyways, I think this a highly unlikely choice for a Pokemon newcomer.

 

[Pheta Ray]

I. Am. All. The. Way. On. This. Train.

Sign me up, I'm aboard, choo choo! LES GO

 

[APC99]

...all I wanted to discuss was Ratatta.

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

I support this debauchery

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Joey: Hey, It's me, Joey. It's 2014 and I must say Ratatta is getting even more stronger. It's not a Raticate yet since. Well I don't know, maybe I will find out next time. Bye ~

 

[Curious Villager]

Gee what a coincidence I see this thread today. Because for some very weird reason, I dreamed today that Youngster Joey and his Top Percentage Rattata where confirmed.

Dunno why, just did..... :T