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きょうの一枚。 わんこがでかい……というより、ファイターが小さいのか。 『スマブラ』はノンスケールです
Ridley disconfirmed for copyright.
Samus removed from Smash for similar reasons.
Sakurai! *shakes fist*Too big argument rendered moot in a single image:
I love their faces.Too big argument rendered moot in a single image:
Much like Ridley, a ton of people seem to like exaggerating Samus's size for weird, stupid reasons. Me personally, I can't see Samus in the suit because she looks like she lacks the shoulders in order to be that top-heavy. I imagine it's like wearing enough coats and jackets to make your arms stick out.Too big argument rendered moot in a single image:
It occurs to me that Dark Samus' Shoulder's look like cute whale heads.Okay, this has nothing to do with Ridley or the idea that the Pyrosphere is a big dunk tank, but...
What's that next to Dark Samus's shoulder?
Forgive me if it's been discussed.
EDIT: It's just a platform bit. Never mind.
Funny how this is probably the best misunderstanding ever, as nobody probably even imagined Ridley as playable. And here we are now!
Too big argument rendered moot in a single image:
I noticed that the commercial gave Ridley Bowser's roar. Interesting.
Why not just make him a somewhat lightweight character? It's possible for him to be fast, powerful, and have a good recovery all at once, but if he's a big target and isn't as heavy as the likes of Bowser, then he would have a serious drawback to all that power of his.You know, I've been thinking. How could Sakurai put such a massive, ferocious character in? In order to do Ridley's character justice, he would need to be fast, feral, vicious, powerful, have a deadly projectile, tall jumps and good recovery (he's a winged dragon after all) and be huge. Which mean he would be overpowered. So...and I'm going to get flak for this...
how about stamina for him?
Imagine Ridley has a "berserk mode". In this mode, he is true Ridley. Fast. Powerful. Great range. Vicious. Effective attacks. Great jumping and recovery. He can fight like this for a short time. After doing so, he calms down and enters a cool down mode, due to depleted stamina. In this mode, he is like a solo IC; he can fight, but his effectiveness suffers greatly. He cannot recover as well, has reduced damage and knockback, his breath attacks have shorter reach, and he slows down. He can still shield and evade, but his large size leaves him vulnerable, especially to shield stabbing. He must remain this way for a short time, even if KO'ed, until his stamina recovers. When it does, launching an attack will re-initiate berserk mode.
Why would I propose something like this?
1. Its a unique gameplay element, which is something Sakurai seems to be focusing on with newcomers. I.e. Rosalina and Luma combos, Villager and Mega Man's unique play styles, etc.
2. It does Ridley's size and character justice, without making him ludicrously OP among the Marios and Villagers. Thus, concerns of how to balance Ridley will be more black and white.
3. It separates the men from the boys. Inexperienced players will waste berserk mode on shielding foes and will play sloppy, then be punished hard during cooldown. Experienced players will learn how to maximize berserk mode for the time allotted, and then can focus on evading and defensive tactics to try to survive during cooldown.
Hey, its a thought. Don't know if anyone else has had a similar thought in 700+ pages, so you'll have to forgive me for not checking.
The idea has merit, though I'm not sure Ridley is the most appropriate candidate for being the raging mindless monster-typed fighter. His thing is more being a cunning, stealthy yet savage villain who feels most comfortable in the air.You know, I've been thinking. How could Sakurai put such a massive, ferocious character in? In order to do Ridley's character justice, he would need to be fast, feral, vicious, powerful, have a deadly projectile, tall jumps and good recovery (he's a winged dragon after all) and be huge. Which mean he would be overpowered. So...and I'm going to get flak for this...
how about stamina for him?
Imagine Ridley has a "berserk mode". In this mode, he is true Ridley. Fast. Powerful. Great range. Vicious. Effective attacks. Great jumping and recovery. He can fight like this for a short time. After doing so, he calms down and enters a cool down mode, due to depleted stamina. In this mode, he is like a solo IC; he can fight, but his effectiveness suffers greatly. He cannot recover as well, has reduced damage and knockback, his breath attacks have shorter reach, and he slows down. He can still shield and evade, but his large size leaves him vulnerable, especially to shield stabbing. He must remain this way for a short time, even if KO'ed, until his stamina recovers. When it does, launching an attack will re-initiate berserk mode.
Why would I propose something like this?
1. Its a unique gameplay element, which is something Sakurai seems to be focusing on with newcomers. I.e. Rosalina and Luma combos, Villager and Mega Man's unique play styles, etc.
2. It does Ridley's size and character justice, without making him ludicrously OP among the Marios and Villagers. Thus, concerns of how to balance Ridley will be more black and white.
3. It separates the men from the boys. Inexperienced players will waste berserk mode on shielding foes and will play sloppy, then be punished hard during cooldown. Experienced players will learn how to maximize berserk mode for the time allotted, and then can focus on evading and defensive tactics to try to survive during cooldown.
Hey, its a thought. Don't know if anyone else has had a similar thought in 700+ pages, so you'll have to forgive me for not checking.
He's huge, so it seems to silly to make him light. And again, it could be hard to balance his big hitboxes with a light weight and still have him justify Ridley's awesomeness in combat performance. Having a black and white "god mode" and "suck mode" is more straightforward and adds a creative new element to the game. Remember that Sakurai seems to be going for outside-the-box fighting styles this time too.
I know Ridley is intelligent and not mindless, but I didn't necessarily mean he would fight mindlessly, just frenzied, like an enraged dragon. Out of all Nintendo villains, Ridley is the least calm and collected of them all for certain. He is intelligent, but he's ultimately a dragon, and he fights like one. No one is more fit to have this berserk style than him it seems. He doesn't have to be an idiot, just a dragon hell-bent on destroying his foes. And someone as smart as him should know when he needs to calm down and rest his energy, right?
Inb4 Mewtwo.
I've argued that a legitimate Ridley would actually be about middle-weight. Having him be heavy weight would be a great way to have him overcome any technical hurdles in his balancing.
Mewtwo still isn't as huge as Ridley lol. And Mewtwo is thin, wiry, and ultimate a mental fighter, so Sakurai probably felt he didn't need to be heavy. And Mewtwo was terribly done in general so. Even Samus' weight would be very powerful under normal conditions, because Samus is decently weighted, but has far fewer advantages compared to what Ridley would have. Plus, Ridley should still be much heavier, because he simply IS much heavier than Samus. These limitations are what have caused me to doubt how he could be viable and balanced, and this playstyle is how I've figured how to resolve my uncertainty. Take it with a grain of salt.
This is a somewhat plausible idea, but serious balancing issues come into play with such a complexity within Ridley's moveset:You know, I've been thinking. How could Sakurai put such a massive, ferocious character in? In order to do Ridley's character justice, he would need to be fast, feral, vicious, powerful, have a deadly projectile, tall jumps and good recovery (he's a winged dragon after all) and be huge. Which mean he would be overpowered. So...and I'm going to get flak for this...
how about stamina for him?
Imagine Ridley has a "berserk mode". In this mode, he is true Ridley. Fast. Powerful. Great range. Vicious. Effective attacks. Great jumping and recovery. He can fight like this for a short time. After doing so, he calms down and enters a cool down mode, due to depleted stamina. In this mode, he is like a solo IC; he can fight, but his effectiveness suffers greatly. He cannot recover as well, has reduced damage and knockback, his breath attacks have shorter reach, and he slows down. He can still shield and evade, but his large size leaves him vulnerable, especially to shield stabbing. He must remain this way for a short time, even if KO'ed, until his stamina recovers. When it does, launching an attack will re-initiate berserk mode.
Why would I propose something like this?
1. Its a unique gameplay element, which is something Sakurai seems to be focusing on with newcomers. I.e. Rosalina and Luma combos, Villager and Mega Man's unique play styles, etc.
2. It does Ridley's size and character justice, without making him ludicrously OP among the Marios and Villagers. Thus, concerns of how to balance Ridley will be more black and white.
3. It separates the men from the boys. Inexperienced players will waste berserk mode on shielding foes and will play sloppy, then be punished hard during cooldown. Experienced players will learn how to maximize berserk mode for the time allotted, and then can focus on evading and defensive tactics to try to survive during cooldown.
Hey, its a thought. Don't know if anyone else has had a similar thought in 700+ pages, so you'll have to forgive me for not checking.
False Sense
mentioned where Ridley could have extreme offensive potential but at the same time be on the middle/lightweight end (with some other vulnerabilities) to balance his strong offensive power.
Of course raw power could eat shields, but it should be kept in mind that Ridley is not powerless during cooldown, just weaker. His moves would be the same but simply less effective. Like a Lucario at 30% instead of 160%. The gap isn't intended to be THAT huge, to the point where he is pathetic during cooldown to the point of worthlessness, but obscenely unbeatable in berserk mode. He just undergoes an "aura" style change between modes. The only major difference is that he loses a bit of recovery and becomes a bit slower. So imagine a slightly faster near-max aura Lucario at his peak, for about 20 seconds maybe, and then a minimum aura Lucario during cooldown. If they could balance Lucario (even with an aura buff in this game coming) and (somewhat) balance something like IC, who are savage together but crippled apart, then Ridley ought not be too bad in this incarnation.This is a somewhat plausible idea, but serious balancing issues come into play with such a complexity within Ridley's moveset:
For instance, you say that both of these modes would last for a "short time"; in this way, a major concern is raised by the fact that he will have yes, a short time interval for his powerful, "berserk" mode, but also a short cooldown, meaning Ridley essentially alternates between the two modes since both mode times are "short."
Further balancing issues exist as well. You say that beginning players would "waste" their berserk mode time by attacking players and then go into a cool down mode, however this raises serious questions: Since Ridley is in this "berserk" mode, shouldn't he be powerful to the point where he could break through shielding players, exemplifying the value and power held by this mode? If even in this mode he doesn't have amplified strength to the point where he could break shields, then Ridley becomes essentially a bottom-tier character at best. After all, most AVERAGE players will know to constantly shield, run, evade, etc. in order to avoid the threats of something like Ridley's "berserk" mode. Again, this would thus cast Ridley down to the very bottom of the tier list, since his "berserk" mode could be easily avoided by simply running away and then having him easily punishable while in cool down (especially since both modes are time-based). So really, the flaw of this gimmick is that Ridley will either be ridiculously broken, or so vulnerable that he would be one of the worst in the game, a set with such extreme power and drawbacks at the same time would be very difficult to balance properly.
Going back to the "boys from men" thing, Ridley would have to be made EXTREMELY powerful in his berserk mode in order to counterbalance the harsh vulnerability he has while in cool down, this would mean that he would have to be fast to the point that he could easily chase down any character that would try to evade him, making him broken. With regards to his cool down, if he is vulnerable such that he is slower and that his shield can be easily broken, this combined with the extreme power he holds in berserk mode would ultimately make matches all around bland. Because of the extreme nature of this moveset, matches against Ridley would essentially become hit-and-run K.O trades which would become monotonous in a very short amount of time. All the match progression would be is:
a) Match Starts, Ridley K.O.'s in berserk mode, enters cooldown as opponent respawns
b)Opponent retaliates easily K.Oing/gimping Ridley as he waits for his cooldown to end.
c)Repeat steps a and b.
Or:
a)Match Starts, Ridley and opponent play cat and mouse for 8 minutes as they try to take advantage of Ridley's berserk/cooldown times.
Ultimately, the extremes of this moveset prevent it from being very easily balanceable and thus if such a moveset was given to Ridley, he would either be broken to all hell or at the very bottom of the tier list. Not only that, but matches would become overall monotonous as players played cat and mouse in order to avoid the very possible K.O. trade scenario that I mentioned. So really, the only way I could see this working is in Ridley dittos, where potentially both players could be in cooldown at the same time and have to improvise (but everyone playing Ridley would inevitably become boring as well)
Overall, I would much rather go with the "glass cannon" playstyle that @
Thank you for reading.
Welll my dear that is none other that Riddley
This goes back somewhat to what you mentioned about Sakurai wanting unique playstyles. Certainly, this sort of time-based mode alternation has not been seen before, but really, all it really makes Ridley in the end is a Lucario copy (playstyle wise) that is time-based instead of damage-based, couple that with the fact that Lucario has one of the best air games as well and we're simply looking at a Space Dragon form of Lucario that could have significant balance issues. This set is less broken than I thought it was now that you've elaborated on the strengths/weaknesses of his berserk and cooldown modes, but I still feel it could be too strong in the sense that it would be like having low damage combo chains possible in cooldown mode (how long is this projected to be? And yes, you said Ridley is slower, but Lucario also isn't that fast in SSBB and still has great combo potential) with unmatched killing power possible in berserk mode (of which 20 seconds seems a little too much, especially if Ridley's move strength is similar here to that of a near full aura Lucario and since it is accessible at low percentages).
Well don't forget that stock plays a role for Aura too, so Lucario can be PERMANENTLY strong for an entire stock if he's down a few. Unlike Lucario, who is always dangerous at high aura, berserk Ridley can be stalled. You don't necessarily have to eventually approach him at full strength (but should a bit still, so hitstun will keep him at bay), but can try to combo around and stall out berserk mode. Thus who will have a choice to:
Knowing Ridley's KO potential while in berserk mode, it would still be fairly difficult for an opponent to effectively attack without risking a stock every time they choose to get aggressive when Ridley is in berserk mode. In order for a player to attack Ridley in berserk mode and not be put in a seriously dangerous position as a result of trades, they'd have to play flawlessly as even one hit could either send them off stage or set the opponent up for a high-damage combo. Also, you say cat and mouse can be avoided on the more competitively viable smaller stages, but how then, could the opponent stall out Ridley's beserk mode without risking taking a large amount of damage if they don't literally RUN away from Ridley and play cat and mouse since rolls and spot dodges still have vulnerability frames near their end and Ridley's berserk attacks can just eat through shields? Additionally, Ridley's assumed higher move speed while in berserk mode makes it practically impossible to stall out Ridley's berserk mode in full without taking some sort of damage.
By attacking him as well. Hitstun is ultimately going to be better than just running, because you damage + hamper his attacking ability. His attacks wouldn't be Shield Breaker style shield punishing, and he isn't going to have MK style attacks that move like lightning. He'd play like any other fighter, but one with mood swings that affect how powerful he is at different times.
Lol at mood swings. We need a drawing of Ridley having one now. Any takers?
That's the issue, Ridley "playing like any other fighter." The way this discussion is going, it seems now that Ridley's berserk mode, which is supposed to be incredibly powerful, can now hypothetically be stopped by simple and careful low damage poking by the opponent. Also, if his attacks do not do significantly more to break down a shield than normal and are not significantly faster during the Berserk mode, then what is this mode other than a time when Ridley is slightly above average overall at best? If he truly plays like a low-percentage Lucario during cooldown with all of these additional vulnerabilities while in Berserk mode (the time when he should be very threatening) that keep him from being dangerous, then what is Ridley then if not a slightly altered, and ultimately worse version of Lucario? If such offensive potential can be stopped so easily and punished when it ends, then the whole mood-swing gimmick essentially becomes useless, and thus, there is almost nothing (assuming this gimmick would have great influence throughout the rest of his moveset) left to make Ridley the unique, fresh, and fun character (that can be properly balanced) for which all of us Ridley supporters have long been waiting.
Well...it was an idea. I never said it would work. Just a thought to give Ridley supporters another twist on his character. There's a good chance he's just a boss again anyway, I'm just trying to keep hope alive.
Yea this sounds about right.
Hopefully we will discuss about Ridley's chances of COMING BACK in Smash 5.
The nice thing is that once Ridley is in, there's practically nothing to stop him from returning in every other installment.
Ugh, no thanks for me. After this game, I'm done with Smash. I'll be enjoying Project M instead of following the next game when that comes out.
I don't see any reason to cut him. I mean, unless he was so atrocious a fighter that even we despised him, and even then, reworking is much more likely.
That... sounds like the inverse of Little Mac. Which is AMAZING, don't get me wrong, but while Little Mac certainly was unique, Ridley still needs a little something else, going by Little Mac's KO punch.
