Important The Ridley for SSB4 Thread - End of an Era

[Chriz_Sevenfold]

It would most likely be Other M's Ridley to be consistent with Samus and Pyrosphere. Though a Meta Ridley retexture isn't out of the question and would be pretty awesome.

Awww, i dont really like Other M Ridley, but yeah hopefully there will be meta/omega ridley textures

 

[Iddis]

People and their "overpowered". That's why people should just stop saying "overpowered" or "underpowered" out of actual experienced context. There's just no way to do it without sounding kind of dumb. Rosalina's final smash? Tons of people got to play the demo and see it was barely usable. Ridley? We have an eleven second clip with a jump and 5-6 seconds of hovering and horizontal flight with no mechanical explanation, context, or actual visual on the events taking place.

I agree, from that clip you literally see nothing other then a shadow and him jump or whatever at the end, and people instantly say he is OP for gliding or whatever other reason, I however will use the term to try and prove a point that he would work, if they can't/won't realize we don't know if he would be or not.

 

[aldelaro5]

Ok, well, I shall get started. Just want to clarify some stuff if you haven't read my essay before. This is a general essay on ridley's chance but that also includes his situation in speculations, his past in smash and of course, every time his situation was altered, I will put more importance in those events. What this means is it won't just talk about the direct but a big section will be dedicated to it. Speaking of sections, I chose to use subtitles because it will be very long and may damage some wheel mouse but it will be a lot accurate.

Finally, @RogersBase , you asked to try to convince you that he was in. Before letting you down, I will tell you right away that it's impossible to be sure about his chance and that goes on both sides. What I'm claiming is that I think he's pretty likely at this point but I can't be sure. This will be explained in details but I just don't want to disappoint you.

Without further ado, let me share my official realtalk music: "Earthbound - Sanctuary Guardians".

< REALTALK >

Before

In Super Smash Bros for the Nintendo 64, he was a background element. In Super Smash Bros Melee, he appeared in the intro cutscene as well as being a trophy. This appearance became more important when the "too big" argument came but this will be explained in its dedicated section. Finally, he was a boss enemy in Super Smash Bros Brawl.

The latest is what made a lot of people doubtful with his inclusion primarily because he has always been represented in his game as a boss canonically. Even tough he doesn't have to be a boss just because he is canonically, the way he acted as a boss was very questionable. In fact, the way he attacks seems very similar to Dynablade, a Kirby boss. Which could make sense as the master hand is also a Kirby boss so Sakurai wanted to include elements from his creations.

Where it gets interesting is that the whole Subspace Emissary (aka: SSE) was based on a Kirby game and it can even be considered as the "main" mode of the game since you can unlock everyone by beating it. This mode took a big amount of time to develop it and that, is a well known fact. I made a theory on this mode that basically says that because most of the elements of the game was centralized in a way or another with SSE, it affected the general representation of the whole game. For more details, you can read it here but I will talk more specifically how it could've affected Ridley.

Since he was a Dynablade clone, it's likely that he ended up like Ganondorf which basically means that he was chosen to be the Dynablade of the game instead of Dynablade himself because of his appearance. Which makes sense because such a boss should have been planned for the needs of SSE. But this also means that if it wasn't for his appearance, he may simply ended up being a mere trophy since SSE wouldn't need him.

What is affecting his chances is that not only an SSE-like mode has been deconfirmed but also because of smash run. It just seems to fix those representation problem by having more rep for known series and proper rep for newer one. All this to say that because of that, it doesn't have to be a boss again since the needs he fulfilled before is no longer there.

So he could still be playable even if he was a boss before.

The biggest argument

In his games, not only he was a boss but most of the time, he was quite huge comparing to Samus. This lead some doubt that he couldn't be playable because he would be too big. The thing is, it's not because he was big in source material that you had to import his EXACT data to implement him in the game. Not only that, but it also already happened before in smash for him and other characters.

In SSBM, his appearance in the intro is clearly smaller than his usual boss appearances. And the trophy is even more obvious because you can rotate the model; it makes the comparison trusted. I know it's subjective but it could even be considered acceptable to see his trophy design as playable. He wasn't even designed to be playable and it seems like it could have with just minor adjustment like the size of his tail that would be required but mostly, he would be ok.

In SSBB and SSB4, Olimar got the exact opposite treatment. He's the size of a quarter and yet, he was upscaled to fit with averagely sized characters. It shows how you may need to alter the source material to fit the game's needs. This is true for characters but also for stages, assist and even music as some are remixed. I think it's clear that his size canon shouldn't matter to his chance in SSB4.

Complexity

The main problem with Ridley is his body structure. Being an agile dragon, his structure would be kinda hard to make and animate due to his complexity. Sakurai said that Ridley would've been slow and would be hard to make it work.

I think that would probably be impossible. [laughs] If we had put our best efforts into it,we may have been able to do it. But he might have been a little slow. Would that have been all right? [laughs]

Source: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/633202-super-smash-bros-for-wii-u/66789493 (which source Nintendo Power May 2008 issue)

Notice how he said that "we may have been able to do it". This means that even though it would be hard, it COULD be possible. However, since it will require more work, it has to worth the results; that just makes sense. It turns out that Ridley is currently and was one of the most recognized and requested character. Just that could justify the works but also because he could bring a good uniqueness to the roster which is what Sakurai wants.

And on stating how he would be slow, remember that this quote was from melee development and Sakurai did change his mind on character's inclusion at least 2 times.

Villager:

Why did you go for the villager and the Wii Fit trainer?', Neither of them are fighting characters, certainly. In fact, we had previously removed the villager from Super Smash Bros. Brawl in the planning stages because he wasn't suited for battle.

Source: http://www.polygon.com/2013/6/26/44...es-mega-man-smash-bros-s-other-new-characters

Pacman:

During development of Smash Bros. Brawl, Mr. Shigeru Miyamoto of Nintendo approached me and asked, 'Can't we have Pac-Man as a guest character?'" Sakurai recalled. "At the time, imagining the image of Pac-Man and his incomplete pizza shape, I thought to myself, 'Hmmm... That's a little too farfetched.'

Source: http://kotaku.com/pac-man-almost-got-into-super-smash-bros-brawl-1599610742

If he changed his mind between SSBB and SSB4, he could have between SSBM and SSB4.

However, the speculation on the "too big" argument took an unusual expansion mainly because of a video released on July 20 2013...

The infamous Shokio's video

This video was known for being the point when the "too big" argument started to spread and created that much debates.

The video is here:

Despite his rude approach to present his toughs, there's a lot of issues in the way he does that.

First, he makes assumption by saying that THE ONLY reason supporter think that he could be properly resized is his NES game where he had to because the system was limited. I said that you don't have to put the EXACT data to use it so what does it have to do with his NES game?

And then, he shows his multiple appearance and claim that he's too big every time. Ironically, he's proving my statement above because they are clearly not the same size for all of the games. If it had to be changed multiple times, I don't see why he can't now.

But it gets worse: he says that resizing works for "certain people". Of course it does but the decision has to be at the developer's discretion which means that if for a design inconsistency he would have to be resized, it could be resized and works. He gets to a weird logic with comparison on Olimar since the goal of his resize was to fit in the game... PERIOD. It doesn't have to do with how taller he is with his Pikmin no, it's the whole game and so, the whole roster. If it can't make sense to play as someone who would take the whole stage, why it would for someone who is hard to see due to him being so small? Also, won't comment on the Bowser comparison for obvious reasons (it doesn't matter if he's a turtle).

Now this is where it gets to make people believe. He claim that Ridley was MADE to be a big boss and so, wouldn't make sense to contradicts that. The problem is that smash is known to not respect canon because of obvious inconsistencies. For instance, why can I play as Ganondorf in smash while I need to defeat him at the end of ocarina of time? It really doesn't limit to canon and the same is for every elements in the game. So, it doesn't matter that Ridley was made to be a boss in his games since it can be altered.

Now, you might think he follows a logical pattern by not being aware of what I just said but the next part is really asking more than just an opinion.

I don't know what the author of the mod had to say but that was forged evidence. He had to deliberately take THE mod made by using THE ORIGINAL MODEL of the game that was DESIGNED TO BE A BOSS to SHOW how awkward it would be if his size was changed. You take the model made in the INTENT of being a boss and try to show it as a playable character so I EXPECT THAT IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE!!! You would need to show a model made in the intent of being playable to do such a preview. It's like me trying to prove that wav music doesn't make better quality because I converted from an mp3 music which doesn't changes anything.

This is so obvious that it really just trying to fuel flame wars but the end is unquestionably the goal of the whole video.

He tells that if you see anyone WANTING him to link that video.

That is pure propaganda and unfortunately, it worked. He claimed after on this very forum (smashboards) that he made that video as a troll but this isn't just "for making fun of" but it was the fuel that the small flame being the argument to spread and became probably is the most controversial subject as of now (even beating sal leak).

I put wanting in caps, that's because want and expect shouldn't be mixed. Now, it targeted EVERY SINGLE supporter and this thread being an obvious example (the Ridley support thread on smashboards). It definitely reached the point where it's a flame war and not an opinion video which was really unnecessary. That video explains why it shouldn't be as big as it became.

Reminder, I never said what he said was "wrong" but "don't make sense" and most of his statement are based on false belief.

So, the flame wars started and now, it became a lot more important through time because of the way Sakurai alluded to him. The first time was exactly a month after the release of that video and it's "the fateful day".

August 20: beginning of 50/50

Before going further, he did talked about how Smash doesn't stay true to scale in others Picture of the day (aka: POTD):

Pic of the day. This dog is huge… Wait, no, the playable characters are small. The Smash Bros. series doesn't always stay true to scale.

Source: https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAADRUqFvxcSrIQ

There was other one like this that said the same thing but I mention them just because it might be related even though nothing clear can be said. Though, that just shows that they had to resize contents to fit with the game.

So, even with that video, before that day, I could say Ridley was somewhat likely due to request and importance in his series. However, that day changed forever what is something that is still true today: objectively 50% hazard and 50% playable. On that day, Sakurai released his usual POTD...

Now, the Japanese post referred the "Samus's enemy" as "Samus's trauma" which basically is undeniable: he was talking about Ridley. It made some people believe he was hazard but in theory, it just can't be sure for both side.

Check his sentence carefully: "An enemy from Samus's past may appear at any second…". "may appear at any second" isn't clear at all because it can either mean "may appear at a particular moment on that stage only" or "may appear at any second" as "whenever you feel like". The former is a valid interpretation while the later is the literal meaning. It's so ambiguous that it could even mean to just allude to Ridley appearing on that stage in his game but to even allude him at all in this way raise a red flag. It's subjective but it feels like he's trying to hide him by not even mentioning as "Ridley" which is literally what he's called.

Because of this, it created a weird chance situation by being completely unsure and this is why it's called since this day "an objective 50/50". With speculation, it changes depending on what you think but this means that saying 0% or 100% is objectively false.

Though, since it's been a month that the big controversy spread, it build enough so that this quote made it even worse. Now, haters use this as a definitive proof of him being an hazard while the supporters got that it can't be certain. This created even more controversy and so, more speculation and Ridley is more known. The statement wasn't clear that it did that on purpose but we had to wait until April to know that. I also want that you remember that it was at the same time that the stage was revealed, that will be useful to know later in my essay.

August 20 to April 8: denial of acknowledgement

This period for Ridley was... bland. Because it literally SHOWED nothing new about him. I said showed because for some reasons, a TONS of Pyrosphere images was released during that period. Even one that really has absolutely no reasons to be showed and it was that hole not supposed to be visible in the game. So, it's weird how he allude to him being a/an ??? and months after, no talks of him like he never alluded to him. Although, he already did something similar with the Super Mario Galaxy stage and several other instances that got their case in April 8. It shows that Sakurai likes to use teasing and time to create speculation and hype before revealing everything.

Usually though, we hear about almost nothing in that denial of acknowledgement period like several other reveals including the Super Mario Galaxy one, Palutena's Temple, living it now with Pokemon League and recently, the Ultimate Ghost as hazard. You could even add any newcomer reveal due to how much time he waited before revealing one after little mac. All those reveals had all in common one thing: Sakurai teased to left us in the dark so that it creates a surprise effect when revealed which bring more hype. He even stated in an interview that he doesn't like to mislead people while talking about games in general on twitter.

I don't like it when a tweet or whatever leads to needless speculation getting spread around," he wrote. "For example, when I tweet about playing some game, some people immediately get the idea that that character is in the new Smash Bros. Then people fan the flames on it, people start to think it's really true, people get angry about it. Nobody benefits.

Source: http://www.polygon.com/2012/12/12/3...ling-twitter-whiners-and-oh-yes-the-new-smash

Why I'm telling this? Because hearing nothing in itself while showing the stage is weird. It seems like his waiting period was more on Ridley which we heard nothing and less on the stage which we keep seeing. If it was indeed true, it would mean that Ridley isn't necessarily on that specific stage but such a statement can't be proved and it's not even clear if he's teasing because the quote wasn't telling any sort of teasing. So, fishy but it doesn't change anything as both sides are still stuck in 50/50. The controversy rose again because of that which is history repeating: more talks, more speculation = more hype.

On April 8 however, it got forever frozen like that...

April 8: 10 seconds of footage, 10 times more controversy

Ok, I'm going to talk about the most talked footage and the most controversial thing Sakurai ever showed.

So, in April 8, with a 4 days tease, everyone is really hyped like RARELY hyped for a 40 minutes of info ONLY of SSB4. The whole direct was very entertaining to watch with Sakurai making jokes and revealing good stuff (which worked better due to previous teasing like smash run teased since the first trailer).

But that's not what made the biggest speculation; it was 10 seconds... of mystery.

When Sakurai talked about stages, he introduced in more depth than before yellow devil, a known hazard. He did showed him before and already told he was an hazard so he just told new info on him and there was no secrets on him now. Everything was usual since all his statement was objective and so, are true.

But RIGHT AFTER, he showed 10 seconds of Pyrosphere with Pickachu running away from...Ridley's...shadow??? All this while stating "Other boss characters make appearance in other stages, not just this one". It's implied that "not just this one" is yellow devil.

Now, most people (including myself) and I mean MOST people's first reaction was "Ridley is confirmed as an hazard on Pyrosphere". However, it just take a single re watch to tell that it still can't be proven.

The whole 10 seconds clip is filled with suspicious and ambiguous evidences. The only thing we really know is that because you can see his tail in some frames, you can tell that it's none other than Ridley from Metroid other M.

First, his size: it's not really what you think. I saw the SHADOW size, not the REAL size. In real life, a shadow can alter significantly sizes compared to their real elements but games with engines that simulates lights can produce a similar effect. Not only that it may not be his real size but research on it proved that he was actually smaller than what we tough.
Source: http://smashboards.com/threads/the-...m-the-mod-squad.324284/page-637#post-16728288

It proves that he COULD be playable with this size. Though, even if it does prove that downscaling was done, it still doesn't clearly tell me if he's playable or not.

After, his behaviour: I don't know about you but it seems to move awkwardly. It gives a feel of being not fluid. Though, I saw some people claim he jumps or that he would grab Pickachu which wasn't clear for me but even if it was, it still doesn't clearly tell me if he's playable or not.

Next, the sound: why do I hear only Sakurai's voice and not from the footage but I hear both in the section about yellow devil? This is where it gets very suspicious because it seems like he was hiding what happened. Maybe I could confirm what happened if I did hear sounds that only one fate would make sense but because I don't hear it, I don't know what he was hiding if he did hide something. So, again, it still doesn't clearly tell me if he's playable or not.

Finally, Sakurai's word: they are double meaning like the rest. It's practically the same as August 20. It could be interpreted as "Other boss character (which includes Ridley) makes appearance on other stages (which includes Pyrosphere)". Now, this is valid because he's shown on Pyrosphere when he said that... like August 20. The other way is to literally take what he said: "Other boss characters (which MIGHT not be Ridley) make appearance on other stages (which MIGHT not be Pyrosphere)". Complete opposite but if the later was the right one, this would be technically true with ultimate ghost on find Mii. So, it could even implies that Ridley is NOT an hazard but again, because like August 20, it was too ambiguous to tell so, it still doesn't clearly tell me if he's playable or not.

Ok I think you got where I'm going. I keep repeating the same sentence at the end of every evidences explanation, even those that could implies hazard from first look. The keyword is CLEARLY. In no way those 10 seconds showed me anything clear about the role of Ridley in the game. However, don't you feel it's August 20 all over again? That quote though on the direct... it's way too obvious that it was made on purpose like everything in the direct was. The purpose? Hide him being a/an ??? in the game by using ambiguous and double meaning evidences. I still don't know about his role but I know he hides something about that said role. It might seems silly to think that such an elaboration could be done on purpose so, let's look at his behaviour generally.

Sakurai's behaviour

Yes, his behaviour shows clearly that he COULD have done that on purpose.

First, did he acknowledged Ridley and fans request? Well, he stated in the developer direct "at last, the long awaited villager" so he did for villager. Little mac was unpopular in Japan while it was the opposite in the West and he included him anyway so there's no favouritism here. What really tells that he cares about his fans is this:

"The amount of stress I feel, it's almost to the brink of death," Sakurai says of designing Smash Bros.'s character roster. "Because it's not just a matter of me personally thinking this character or that character is going to be in the game; it's that we also have the game balance, animation, graphics and sound to think about in order to make that character fully fleshed out in that universe. I have to think about all of that when I go through this decision-making process."

Source: http://www.polygon.com/2013/6/17/44...director-masahiro-sakurai-character-selection

So, how could he have NOT know about him while it's one of the most requested character and is the most controversial one AT THE SAME TIME while he did for less popular character? Honestly, with what he knew, he would have to blind to not be aware at the slightest.

But the direct itself is so obvious here's a list:

• "Yes I'm still alive"

• Both Iwata directly jokes

• Showing Waluigi figurine when talking about assist trophies (a reference to how he was deconfirmed despite people trying hard)

• The subsitute joke

• The pseudo Palutena faking as Palutena

• The Zero Suit Samus (aka: ZSS) being deconfirmed for 5 seconds (this is the most obvious one)

• Showing figurine and objects of games (like showing a Pokeball instead of just talking about them)

• The little bye bye gesture at the end

Not only it tells you that he prepared his actions just for his fans but also tells that he did hide teasing playable character (ZSS for 5 seconds deconfirmed to then find her playable and Palutena as an almost deconfirmation and ended up playable). So it's not "silly" to say that he may have done that for Ridley but it's still a 50/50.

Ok, until now, I proved that it's still an objective 50/50 so you can't be sure about any side you pick. So, why I claim to find him "pretty likely"? It's because I talked until now about EVIDENCES based arguments. But if I view this from a LOGICAL point of view, it points to only one side despite still being subjective. The difference though is that it not only contradicts Sakurai himself which is our most trusted source but also makes the hazard possibility no sense.

So, the following is subjective but it's based on a hard and solid logic...

Let's assume he's an hazard from now on.

Most suspicious evidence: the existence of the shadow itself

Yeah you read that right: that shadow shouldn't be on the clip if he was an hazard. Why?

Remember that statement ha made about not liking to unintentionally mislead people on twitter? Well, the shadow would do the exact opposite as it misleads both sides. Not only that but that statement is true by the way he deconfirms.

And here, all, ALL deconfirmation was done with something that makes it CLEAR, UNDENIABLE and OBJECTIVE. It's so direct that's like killing you with a gun on your head instead of torturing you to then kill you slowly after. This was even true after the direct so it's still true today.

Saying Ridley is an hazard is a deconfirmation so I should expect to only see him with something like I don't know an assist trophy where he came from or a quote that would say "FYI, he's a stage hazard and attack players" or showing his trophy with a weird pose for render. THAT is solid.

But seeing Ridley's shadow with a quote that might claim the opposite IS NOT SOLID. If he was an hazard, I would've have been able to prove it now but I can't so why he's doing this if he doesn't like to mislead?

What raise the big red flag is between August 20 and April 8. That's MONTHS of pictures of Pyrosphere with no Ridley from head to feet in sight. We JUST receive pictures of it and I still don't see him from head to feet. The only thing I saw that was physical is his tail but that alone doesn't prove anything only that it's Ridley but not what he does.

I talked about how he showed more on stages than Ridley right? He does the opposite if it's teasing he should NOT have shown the stage. So, August 20, I'm teased but I don't know why. Wait months, no info on Ridley but tons on stage. April. Don't see Ridley but only ambiguous evidences that aren't clear. After all this, he would be deconfirmed?

How seriously does that make sense with all deconfirmation he did? Skull kid: assist oh btw, assist aren't playable -> clear
Every assist in the direct: implied to act like assist -> assist = not playable -> clear
Wonder red: his original render on trophy -> used as a show off purpose -> not playable one -> clear

I think I made my point. I already proven that Ridley case isn't clear so, if he was an hazard, the latest Sakurai could've shown him from head to feet and be consistent is on April 8. Every speculation would've stopped, we would know, Sakurai is happy, everyone is happy. Maybe not supporters but remember: torture or direct kill with gun? The later is shorter and you don't suffer so in a sense, it's an happy situation.

But what he actually did on April 8? Ambiguous statement and evidences that points to an impossible verdict which brings more speculation, debates, flame war and so, more talk about the game.

That's the complete opposite of a deconfirmation. That is not something you do unintentionally and with how Sakurai planned things before, he just couldn't such a big "mistake" as this one.

So, the shadow doesn't belong in the direct since I would've either not have saw the clip and see Ridley later OR, he would have shown it BEFORE but with how many time he could have done that and didn't, he just had to intentionally not show him.

This sounds weird but since the shadow logically contradicts our most trusted source, it shouldn't be there. Same goes for the quote since I would have either heard of him before and not see the quote or it would have been a clear quote which is the opposite of what I have now.

So, what's left with no sounds, no shadow and no text?

The stage: Pyrosphere. Wait, that's weird: this is the same stage that bring big speculation on August 20 and the same one we saw a lot without any sign of Ridley and now, I see the same stage as the only thing left that would make sense if he was an hazard?

The culprit: Pyrosphere

Yes, I can go THAT far.

When you think about it though, it makes sense since it's because I saw the shadow with that quote ON THAT STAGE that I tough first he was an hazard. But, let me tell what happen with this stage: it's too convenient to not have been planned all along. Pay really close attention to words in capitals.

Pyrosphere was made to represent THE SAME LOCATION when you fight RIDLEY AS A BOSS in the original game. This SAME STAGE was REVEALED on August 20 when he ALLUDE TO HIM AS AN ENEMY and that he may appear in some way AT THE SAME TIME. Then, we see THE SAME STAGE tons of time for MONTHS WITHOUT ANY SIGN OF RIDLEY. Finally, we see THE SAME STAGE in a 10 seconds clip with RIDLEY'S SHADOW and a quote that TALKS ABOUT BOSS CHARACTERS.

Now, there's a huge problem if he's an hazard: the paragraph above just CANNOT be coincidence. The stage had to be CHOSEN, USED and PLANNED for a reason. HOWEVER, we know that the shadow and the quote should not be in the direct. So, the stage has no reasons to be there if it was an hazard but we know there is a reason to be there.

There's only one possibility left: The August 20 quote was alluding to something else...

Ridley's home stage: Pyrosphere

But since it's not for hazard purposes, it's for playable purposes.

Ok, before you're telling that I make assumption, just view his situation with that statement it makes sense:

So, AS SOON AS Pyrosphere is revealed, he would've have said that it was Ridley's home stage but by not mentioning him and having an ambiguous sentence, he spawned speculation which brings more hype for teasing his playability. After months, we see his home stage without any sight of him thus, more hype and speculation. Finally, in the direct, we see his home stage with his shadow which is used to tell something secret which is hiding his playability and a misleading quote so even more hype and speculation.

See? The August 20 quote was telling that Ridley may appear on the stage at any time because that's his home stage. Since the paragraph above makes sense and is possible while the hazard one doesn't and was based on the presence of the stage, That's why I believe that...

HE'S PRETTY LIKELY TO BE PLAYABLE!!!

But before I finish, it even explains what happened at E3...

From E3 to today

Not acknowledging him is repeating the pattern he made since August 20: tease, wait, tease more and we are now in a wait. So, he could tease more from now on on that stage again and if it happens, I will consider him almost confirmed which would be 99% playable.

Not showing that stage is raising a bigger red flag. He wouldn't want that we know the truth since he's trying to hide it. And only Wii Fit trainer stage was revealed before it and wasn't in the demo but then again, that stage wasn't showed as Pyrosphere. So, he's still hiding us what he alluded to be the opposite on first look: he's playable.

When you think about it, the not playable arguments were based on an ambiguous assumption which was seeing his shadow on Pyrosphere where he was a boss with a quote saying so. If it wasn't for the shadow but himself, I would've believed he was an hazard because I really saw him with a quote that could only view that as hazard.

When he would be revealed?

I really have no idea: anything could happen except scheduled Nintendo direct or live streams. He could even wait until release and put him as unlockable just to make the maximum hype he could get.

FINAL VERDICT

DISCLAIMER: The following statement is subjective and it tells what I THINK will happen according to the way I see it and not what will happen OBJECTIVELY.

"RIDLEY IS [PRETTY LIKELY] TO BE A PLAYABLE CHARACTER IN SUPER SMASH BROS FOR WIIU AND NINTENDO 3DS AND IT WILL BE REVEALED EITHER ON SCHEDULED NINTENDO LIVE STREAM OR HE WILL BE UNLOCKABLE AND WE'LL KNOW ON SEPTEMBER 13 AT THE EARLIEST" - Aldelaro5 July 12 2014 at 2 am ET

< /REALTALK >

That's all. It took me the whole night to type it but I can't more accurate in the way I told what I had and wanted to tell.

I hope you liked it and that it will be useful @RogersBase

 

[Johnknight1]

Size and body composition issues=???

Wait, I got this...
Body composition:

Size:

 

[TheWozny]

Size and body composition issues=???

Wait, I got this...
Body composition:

Size:

I'm pretty sure that Charizard is closer to the camera than Ash and Pikachu. Even then, Pikachu and Charizard in the TV show are very differently sized than how they are in Smash.

 

[majora_787]

Size and body composition issues=???

Wait, I got this...
Body composition:

Size:

But they don't COUNT D: Because they're not RIDLEY and RIDLEY is the EXCEPTION. EXCEPTIONLEY.

 

[Iddis]

@ aldelaro5

Well time to read what's new.

 

[Johnknight1]

I'm pretty sure that Charizard is closer to the camera than Ash and Pikachu. Even then, Pikachu and Charizard in the TV show are very differently sized than how they are in Smash.

I was doing a body composition there, not size, lol.

Like look at how wide his tail and wings are in that picture and compare it to Smash 4 Charizard.

Another body composition thing: Olimar is hundreds of times taller in Smash than he is in Pikmin 1-3, and yet, he has the same exact body composition. The same is true of his Pikmin.

Therefore,
-The body composition argument isn't true thanks to this evidence with Charizard.
-The size (or a more proper term, "scale") isn't an issue thanks to Olimar.

The only thing blocking Ridley is roster choices and reasoning. All of this is related to gameplay, which are the last reasons we ever see as to why Ridley shouldn't/wouldn't be playable.

Gameplay is a thing a lot of people don't comprehend due to a lack of playing Smash games. Strange, isn't it=???

 

[IsmaR]

It drove some of us raving mad. Just gone insane. Crazy. Should be in an asylum.

not gonna put out names

@ IsmaR

I'll have you know that while Team Asylum was named primarily after my shenanigans, it was a lot harder to get in than you'd think.

You burn one house down and people stop sitting next to you.

Awww, i dont really like Other M Ridley, but yeah hopefully there will be meta/omega ridley textures

Most of us feel this way about his in-game model, but hold hope that they'd update it to resemble Smash/classic Ridley.

 

[Johnknight1]

Fortunately, I am an unbiased newbie supporter, untainted by Brawl disappointment!

Gonna be honest here:

Very few truly "expected" Ridley until all the big name players were confirmed, namely Wario, Diddy, Dedede, and Sonic, as well as kinda sorta ZSS, Pit, Meta Knight, Lucas, and other fan favorite ideas.

So literally, the "disappointment" with characters not playable (sans Roy and Mewtwo) was due to the fact all the top fan favorites already got in, and expectations grew too much too fast.

Fortunately things aren't like that with most people now, especially with most of the roster revealed. Realism has set foot in that regard.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Well, Sakuai's left him there for almost a year. He had to have taken out his inevitable anger on something.

EDIT: Here's something.

This is a brilliantly edited video. It makes many of the points I have, except it says 'at E3' where, even beforehand, I said, 'as unlockables.'
It should be viewed more often.
I'd also state that a third option is that Sakurai is under the pretense that a boss ridley actually would be well received enough; but even this is an honest, kind hearted belief on his end. I think I had a long, long debate with someone to come to this conclusion involving market strategy, after the april direct.

 

[NintenRob]

The worst thing I hear haters say is "Do Ridley fans think Yellow Devil will be playable"

>.<

 

[Johnknight1]

Continuing off my previous posts...

...If you want to get to why Ridley is probably playable, it is simple:

Look at all the leaks out there (sans the Sal leak which is 100% legitimate) that haven't been proven false.

We've gotten tons of leaks lately.

Nearly all of them they haven't been proven false had Ridley.

Pre-Brawl we had tons of leaks.

Nearly all of the Pre-Brawl leaks that weren't proven false before people actually played the game had Ness.

Ness was confirmed to be cut thanks to "up until now" and other (hindsight) awful evidence that isn't evidence.

The point is, eventually one of these leaks will be real, and seeing as how every noteworthy leak has Ridley is a gigantic indicator that Ridley will be playable.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I am really starting to believe that Monday is Ridley.

Before:
of course, Gematsu and Shulk.
We need to look at the assumptions we are making here.
One, that Gematsu is correct. Yes, a lot of it is. Okay, concede. Likely so, but it is still an assumption.
Two, that it is all the characters. Rosalina disproves this, and to me it shows that she either was added later to development, or that she was initially going to be secret, and later switched to not be a secret character (thusly leaked). Which brings me to point three-
Gematsu is all the characters we will get. Why? What point does that serve to reveal all of the characters? Judging by who we have seen revealed, it seems to be the characters who would generate most hype in the non-smash fans; that is, not characters particularly wanted by fans already established in the game, but by outside sources. Variation. It would make complete sense for the locked characters to be the ones we have wanted to be in the entire time, the ones previous with some connection to smash in some way (as a boss, trophy, AT, etc). It would serve Sakurai little to blatantly ignore all of these characters.

Honestly I cannot fathom the Gemtatsu leak being anything but the characters who would be revealed before the game. We all seem to even glaze over the rosalina bit, but either she was added later, not included on the leak intentionally (potentially along with others), or was originally not going to be revealed and then later was (likely because she was switched onto the starting roster-- perhaps the reverse happened with Ike and chrom, where Ike was going to be secret and chrom starting roster, but after the leak, they were switched). We have more evidence pointing TOWARDS more characters from the leak than not.

Now-- if the leak is not what is disappointing people, what is?
We were given information about a new character reveal. It will be a big deal. We were told specifically that we are near the end of new character videos, which we knew- the game is coming out soon. That almost sounds specifically like we should in fact expect more characters to be in the game, or else he would have surely said 'there are not more new characters,' because if it were all the newcomers, he would have told us. THAT is terrible marketing, pretending to possibly have more newcomers when you do not have anymore. If all the newcomers are somehow revealed before game launch, the point would be because everyone would find out and he wants us to know.

Guys, we have more characters. I honestly think it will be Shulk, but if not, my money is on Ridley.
______________
Now:
I am starting to see this a bit differently now.
The ploy is to build hype

Gematsu is not... hype worthy, to most anyone looking to pay attention to a newcomer at this point. It is what we expect.
Who is on this list? Chrom, Shulk, Chorus Kids.

What is done? An announced new character, big deal countdown. It is minutes long.
This all builds hype. Super!
But-- retweeted by Monolith, Shulks papa. So... directly leading the community that is paying attention to the road we already had established, in regards to newcomers.

It just seems, fishy to me. Like as much of a level of misdirection as everything else has been. The misdirection for all the other characters.
Maybe I'm hopping on board this meaning too much, because it is either too obviously Shulk, and everything Sakurai has done must be face value vulgar as it didnt seem to have been, or- he has been brilliantly marketing to appeal to many audiences.

I won't go as far as that extreme, but I do believe there is a pretty decent shot Shulk is in, and that Sakurai is utilizing some more advanced marketing strategy (asking monolith to send us down the wrong path) to keep us on our toes about who will be revealed, because even before that retweet most would have guessed Shulk, and what is the point of a reveal we are mostly all already guessing? Even less if we are hyping it.

 

[majora_787]

... Holy beached vorash. What do you call it when you cringe at something so hard that you head-desk?

Anyway. Honestly I don't know what is going to happen on monday, but after E3 I don't want to assume Ridley again. :Y

 

[pupNapoleon]

What the blazes is wrong with his face? was he punched in it? That is not the face of Ash's charizard.

 

[Johnknight1]

What the blazes is wrong with his face? was he punched in it?

I cannot underestimate how much I cannot unsee this.

It's literally a phenomenon of nature.

That is not the face of Ash's charizard.

That tongue is super crooked.

OH NO I'M DOING IT AGAIN!!!

 

[aldelaro5]

So, since I'm exhausted now, I just want to chill now before roger give his thoughts.

It is my biggest post I ever done on the forums.

It took me 5 to 6 hours from having intro and trademark template ready to click on "post reply". Fun fact: as it was a big one, I listened to the sanctuary guardians music THE WHOLE TIME I TYPED. You really get the feel of this music in that situation.

It will be unfortunately my last essay since getting outdated is very unlikely now.

I really think it is the most accurate way to tell my opinion on him based on how I see him. I don't think improvements could be too significant to warrant a big update.

If oasis is still active here, I suggest him to put this in the OP as I don't think it can be that much better now.

I realized that the shokio video really doesn't even follow a logical pattern of not being aware of facts. At one point, it's clear that he DIDN'T CARE for those and was focusing more on propaganda. The video could have made sense if he wasn't aware of one fact and keep repeating the same mistake but he did worse and intentional things you shouldn't do with that much viewers on youtube.

I didn't talked on his language because it makes the the video look worse than I describe it. By just explaining the words he says and what he shows while forgetting the inappropriate presentation, it gives the impression I didn't like the video not because of how not credible he looks but because of how his statements just don't have any logic each other.

I haven't talked about it but why it's been exactly a month between the release of that video and August 20? That's weird I wonder if it was talked before.

The wait period made me realise that he showed a lot of the stage while not talking about Ridley. If he was an hazard, I wouldn't talk about both but if playable, the stage shouldn't matter. Just something neat I noticed.

That direct, Sakurai is a genius. He did 10 seconds and it took me hours to explain his reasoning. That teasing level is rare to see.

I found funny how the shadow lead me to think that the stage was the whole problem. It's true that its presence wasn't talked a lot but that was because of the presence of the shadow. It's so ironic.

That disclaimer with timespamps is in case it's outdated but I don't think it will.

Had to keep way too much tabs open for quotes and link. I think I put a lot of effort on being credible but with a popular outlet interested, I had to.

Last edit was a correction on the shokio dates. Wasn't wrong just added 2013 for clear reference after the one this year. I'm perfectionist.

EDIT another one with a newline fix.

So, let's get more than 28 likes ok?

 

[JaidynReiman]

So, since I'm exhausted now, I just want to chill now before roger give his thoughts.

It is my biggest post I ever done on the forums.

It took me 5 to 6 hours from having intro and trademark template ready to click on "post reply". Fun fact: as it was a big one, I listened to the sanctuary guardians music THE WHOLE TIME I TYPED. You really get the feel of this music in that situation.

It will be unfortunately my last essay since getting outdated is very unlikely now.

I really think it is the most accurate way to tell my opinion on him based on how I see him. I don't think improvements could be too significant to warrant a big update.

If oasis is still active here, I suggest him to put this in the OP as I don't think it can be that much better now.

I realized that the shokio video really doesn't even follow a logical pattern of not being aware of facts. At one point, it's clear that he DIDN'T CARE for those and was focusing more on propaganda. The video could have made sense if he wasn't aware of one fact and keep repeating the same mistake but he did worse and intentional things you shouldn't do with that much viewers on youtube.

I didn't talked on his language because it makes the the video look worse than I describe it. By just explaining the words he says and what he shows while forgetting the inappropriate presentation, it gives the impression I didn't like the video not because of how not credible he looks but because of how his statements just don't have any logic each other.

I haven't talked about it but why it's been exactly a month between the release of that video and August 20? That's weird I wonder if it was talked before.

The wait period made me realise that he showed a lot of the stage while not talking about Ridley. If he was an hazard, I wouldn't talk about both but if playable, the stage shouldn't matter. Just something neat I noticed.

That direct, Sakurai is a genius. He did 10 seconds and it took me hours to explain his reasoning. That teasing level is rare to see.

I found funny how the shadow lead me to think that the stage was the whole problem. It's true that its presence wasn't talked a lot but that was because of the presence of the shadow. It's so ironic.

That disclaimer with timespamps is in case it's outdated but I don't think it will.

Had to keep way too much tabs open for quotes and link. I think I put a lot of effort on being credible but with a popular outlet interested, I had to.

Last edit was a correction on the shokio dates. Wasn't wrong just added 2013 for clear reference after the one this year. I'm perfectionist.

EDIT another one with a newline fix.

So, let's get more than 28 likes ok?

Yeah, I read your essay, it was pretty good. I don't think you needed to go through all the trouble, but good job either way. I agree, if we can get a hold of the TC, that Essay should definitely be in the first post.

 

[aldelaro5]

Yeah, I read your essay, it was pretty good. I don't think you needed to go through all the trouble, but good job either way. I agree, if we can get a hold of the TC, that Essay should definitely be in the first post.

I had the intent to make it this night so... same result and effort.

Though, I'm worrying about every mouse wheel now. It's worse than my OP on my thread before which I had to fix with collapse tags.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

=__= GOD DAMN IT, WHO SAID IT WAS A SHIPPING THING?! IT IS NOT!

I made it a shipping thing by saying Raydley ship confirmed, remember? Besides, all fictionsl characters are bisexual for shipping reasons

Sounds good! Interested in hearing your thoughts!

Say hi to Duncan for me, even though I don't know you two personally, big fan of FFA

 

[Toastie]

Well, there are a few things to this.

Personally, I believe that was a very, very planned segment. Maybe even to the point of scripted. If you re-watch it, you'll notice the sound has been cut out of it. There's definitely something odd with it.

Yeah that's definitely plausible. I hope that's the case. I'm a little worried that the reason why Ridley's movements were so jerky and that he wasn't shown is simply because he wasn't polished enough to be revealed as a boss yet, but I reallly hope I'm wrong.

 

[ddd87]

Why would the lack of audio be a "hint" towards his playability?

Bossley would have sound effects too :/

 

[JaidynReiman]

Why would the lack of audio be a "hint" towards his playability?

Bossley would have sound effects too :/

Because the sound could indicate whether Ridley was actually playable or something that randomly pops up on the stage at certain points. Of course both would have sound effects, but their might've been something to indicate one way or the other, so they cut the sound all-together to further the tease.

 

[Dark Dude]

Guess I just consider Sakurai's choices to be an expression of art?
It has nothing to do with belief or disbelief, rather, moreso, the study of psychology and the study of artistic interpretation. Both are in fact incredibly subjective, true, but saying that a screen which shows ridley is a boss is just objectively inaccurate, because it not only does not show Ridley (which you may say is just a formality, but there is quite a bit of a Choice in the fact that they actively did not show his physical-digital body) but it does not at all link the statement to what is in fact not shown.
There is a lot of intentional ambiguity about how it was stated, and that is something that cannot be argued. What it means could be questionable, but the fact they they were all choices made- unobjectionable.

Well, you clearly like to think that your reasoning for disbelieving that Ridley is a boss character is well thought out and logical, but to say that it cannot be argued, I disagree. It is heavily implied that Ridley is a boss character for Pyrosphre in the same way that the yellow devil is a boss character for Dr. Wily's castle stage. The only reason I can see that one would infer otherwise is due to a lot of wishful thinking. I think you're choosing faith over evidence.
As for Sakurai's choice to not show Ridley, either he wants to surprise people, Ridley isn't finished yet or he's purposely not wanting to disappoint Ridley supporters. Personally, I think it's because Ridley wasn't completely done yet and he might have looked a little odd. And, gotta save some surprises for later, anyway, so it's not like he's going to show off Ridley the moment he gets him done. Also, he might not want to disappoint so many people too soon before the game launches. But, if Ridley supporters don't find out that he's not playable until the game launches then the negative reaction won't be as bad, because they'll still at least have the game to play so they'll have plenty to be distracted with.

 

[Zem-raj]

"Ridley wasn't finished at the time of the SSB Direct and at E3 2014 [even though the stage was revealed 8 or so months beforehand, and it supposedly takes almost a year to complete a simple stage element like a hazard]"

Come on seriously, this excuse again? =/

 

[BaganSmashBros]

Well, you clearly like to think that your reasoning for disbelieving that Ridley is a boss character is well thought out and logical, but to say that it cannot be argued, I disagree. It is heavily implied that Ridley is a boss character for Pyrosphre in the same way that the yellow devil is a boss character for Dr. Wily's castle stage. The only reason I can see that one would infer otherwise is due to a lot of wishful thinking. I think you're choosing faith over evidence.
As for Sakurai's choice to not show Ridley, either he wants to surprise people, Ridley isn't finished yet or he's purposely not wanting to disappoint Ridley supporters. Personally, I think it's because Ridley wasn't completely done yet and he might have looked a little odd. And, gotta save some surprises for later, anyway, so it's not like he's going to show off Ridley the moment he gets him done. Also, he might not want to disappoint so many people too soon before the game launches. But, if Ridley supporters don't find out that he's not playable until the game launches then the negative reaction won't be as bad, because they'll still at least have the game to play so they'll have plenty to be distracted with.

So, he dissapoints Toad (most likely), Waluigi, Dylon, Skull Kid, Dark Samus, etc. fans instantly, but not Ridley fans? And they failed to finish a stage boss and a stage in 8-9 months even through they finished few other stages and one stage with similar stage hazard?

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

I just hope ridleys fate is revealed on monday i want peace on smashboards.

 

[Dark Dude]

"Ridley wasn't finished at the time of the SSB Direct and at E3 2014 [even though the stage was revealed 8 or so months beforehand, and it supposedly takes almost a year to complete a simple stage element like a hazard]"

Come on seriously, this excuse again? =/

Uhm... obviously the whole game isn't going to be done at the same time.

So, he dissapoints Toad (most likely), Waluigi, Dylon, Skull Kid, Dark Samus, etc. fans instantly, but not Ridley fans? And they failed to finish a stage boss and a stage in 8-9 months even through they finished few other stages and one stage with similar stage hazard?

I don't think any of those others had nearly as large of a fanbase as Ridley does.

You guys are funny. Any logical explanation is ludicrous, but grasping at straws is the only sensible thing.

 

[JaidynReiman]

I don't think any of those others had nearly as large of a fanbase as Ridley does.

You guys are funny. Any logical explanation is ludicrous, but grasping at straws is the only sensible thing.

You're the only one grasping at straws here. You're trying to find ways to justify the notion that Sakurai wouldn't give Ridley the same treatment as other characters. BECAUSE Ridley is so popular, if Ridley wasn't playable it would make far more logical sense for Sakurai to debunk Ridley outright and make it completely clear what Ridley's status is. The notion that Sakurai would do the exact opposite because he doesn't want to "disappoint the fans" is LUDICROUS. It'd be far worse to make it unclear what Ridley's status is, then debunk it months later. The logical thing for anyone to do in this situation is "oh, and I make it very clear that THIS CHARACTER ISN'T PLAYABLE."

Its grasping at straws to suggest that making a vague allusion to a character potentially not being playable that's extremely popular, but not outright saying said character isn't playable, then finally months later show it off and officially confirm. Better to kill it right away. There is literally no justification for hyping something like this with no payoff in the end.

 

[hotcrumpets]

Uhm... obviously the whole game isn't going to be done at the same time.

I don't think any of those others had nearly as large of a fanbase as Ridley does.

You guys are funny. Any logical explanation is ludicrous, but grasping at straws is the only sensible thing.

Your the only one grasping at straws, your assuming the most idiotic things for why he did not show Ridley, like he was not finished after 9 months but he decides to show his shadow? If Ridley was not done then he would have not showed his shadow. Also why would he tease one of the most requested characters for Smash if he is just going to be a boss? Even though he has said he does not want to create false speculation and has not done it to any assist, boss, or stag element? In fact the only character he teased to be a stage element was Palutena he she turned out to be playable.

 

[Zem-raj]

You're the one who's being illogical here Dark Dude, you're telling me that Sakurai and his team would finish the Pyrosphere stage around August/September, and then go "oh, why don't we wait half a year to start that stage hazard, and take several months after to complete it. Let's do other things first. Oh, and let's use Pyrosphere in tonnes of pictures, people will love that!", or that they'd take this long to work on such a thing. I really don't think Sakurai would leave a stage hazard and then come back to it later. Besides, Sakurai isn't afraid to show unfinished things, as evidently shown during E3 2014 where Mushroom Kingdom U was in the demo, and one of its hazards wasn't (Nabbit), but then it was shown within a few weeks later. Plus there are likely multiple teams working on it (one working on the 3DS version, and another working on the WiiU version), and there are members of Bandai Namco working on the game, with experience on developing fighting games (so a stage hazard would be a piece of cake for them). Ridley not being completed by SSB Direct is either bad development planning or a terrible excuse created by Ridlephobes.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

I don`t think any of those others had nearly as large of a fanbase as Ridley does.
You guys are funny. Any logical explanation is ludicrous, but grasping at straws is the only sensible thing.

Well, he still dissapoined them. Those characters were clearly disconfirmed. And what is better - say that you will get your Super Smash Bros WiiU or keep saying that you may get it for 9 months and after all of that time say that you won`t get it because its canceled?

We are getting nothing but straws. And we are not the worst...um...supporters group. Not THE best, but not the worst.
Still, there is not much to look at. Ridley is never mentioned by name or even shown properly. And when his shadow is shown, we get at least something to work with. By the way - he is not as big as Super Mertoid or Brawl Ridley. This was discovered by comparing his shadow to Bowser, Mother Brain and Mega Man`s (not sure about this one...i think it was recently compared to him) shadows.

 

[Shagadelic_Baby]

Lol, gotta love that ignore button. Seriously, coming into a support thread and hating on the character is just idiotic, especially for a character that has so much evidence going for him.

 

[CrypticSpark]

In GameXplain's defence pretty much anyone with any interest in Smash Bros. likely knows by now Ridley and King K. Rool are highly requested, even if some people happen to be biased, but I am little annoyed about the whole treating the leak as gospel.

Though saying that, the most decisive piece of proof if there was any that would make me believe that the leak was real was the whole "Pokemon from X and Y", which is exactly how it was apparently written at the time, but that's something to thing about, at the time. If it was in early stages and for arguments sake say the leak is 100% legit then for all we know some of the characters might not of being set in stone.

Also basing it off characters like Palutena, Little mac which were popular, as well as what you could call mascot characters like Wii Fit trainer(s) and Mii's isn't that much of a stretch if you sat down and thought through all possible options. As the saying goes a broken clock is right twice a say, and when you have a internet with loads of broken clocks some are going to tell the right time.

Monolith tweeting does seem to add credit to the Shulk reveal but wouldn't that spoil the surprise and make it too obvious? Since Ridley was speculated for August by people here including myself prior the character countdown it's likely then, but if it was Monday we will hopefully see a end to this whole Ridley debate.

 

[Neo Zero]

Guys, it's not going to be Ridley on Monday

A 3 minute video isn't nearly BIG enough for Ridley. That's why he's in the August Direct, the entire Direct will be devoted to him.

 

[Zem-raj]

Guys, it's not going to be Ridley on Monday

A 3 minute video isn't nearly BIG enough for Ridley. That's why he's in the August Direct, the entire Direct will be devoted to him.

Nah, they need to dedicate the entire month to him, a Direct isn't big enough for him

 

[ddd87]

Uhm... obviously the whole game isn't going to be done at the same time.

Base gameplay is though. All characters have to be able to combat every stage hazard with somewhat equal chances. In fact, the core gameplay was finished before the game was unveiled in 2013. Its perfectly reasonable to believe a boss hazard would be developed alongside the PCs, and should have been functional the moment it was "teased". Unless Sakurai suddenly decided that only Ridley should be revealed with all the FXs working at a finalized state, he should have been potd-material a long time ago.

 

[Neo Zero]

Nah, they need to dedicate the entire month to him, a Direct isn't big enough for him

The Year of Ridley 2015.

 

[allison]

The Year of Ridley 2015.

Charizard vs. Ridley at the Olympic Games